Re: Assent

1

Damn, I almost posted this. Ben H deserves special credit for defending Scooter while installing solar panels.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:18 AM
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From the linked discussion:


In the case of Weinberger and Cisneros, the pardon served to ensure that men who made sacrifices to work for the government (each had very lucrative opportunities in the private sector) should not have as their reward criminal sanctions.

What if men with lucrative opportunities in the private sector who make sacrifices to serve in government decided to return to those lucrative opportunities when asked to do something criminal for the government? Would that be ok?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:23 AM
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1: Not really. Use of alternative energy helps decrease the amount of money going to filthy Arabs. Supporting Libby increases the amount of death going to filthy Arabs.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:24 AM
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What if lucrative opportunities in the private sector are based in part on the expectation that there are likely to be times when one is high up in the public sector or with influence there?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:26 AM
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It's really not worth thinking about Ben H.'s political views. Look at the funny bumper sticker! Colors!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:27 AM
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I still think it's ok to quit if you're asked to break the law. Somehow I think Scooter or Cap could still have got work.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:27 AM
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6: I was suggesting that Libby wasn't making a sacrifice; he was preserving his value in more or less the same way that MDs sub-specializing do.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:31 AM
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Delurking for a minute to note that, following through on the link, the same Ben H refers to (apparently) all muslim immigrants to Britain as "retarded primitives." Um, fuck you too, and why does this guy apparently get the respectful treatment?


Posted by: thumbtack | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:41 AM
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That's mild for Ben H, and he doesn't get the respectful treatment.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:44 AM
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Pretty colors!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:45 AM
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Colors: so pretty!


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 11:50 AM
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Brother, thy tail hangs down behind!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:02 PM
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Yeah, delving deeper into the abyss at that site I see what you mean. Wow, an openly racist, articulate hedge fund type who seems to have gone to Harvard. The cocktail of entitlement mixed with ressentiment mixed with out and out racial hatred is pretty unique. Obviously, calls for public shaming can't have any effect, especially from a true nobody -- I'm even an internet nobody -- but . . . wow. At least it makes for good voyeurism.


Posted by: thumbtack | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:02 PM
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14

I always get the Bens confused.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:05 PM
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15

You know Ben A is baa, right?


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:06 PM
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You know Ben A is baa, right?

No, how could we know that?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:07 PM
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Yes, I did know that. But somehow, when I look over there, I forget. Maybe I'm thinking the other one is bah.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:07 PM
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You must live the archives, Ned.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:07 PM
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I always get the Bens confused.

I'm the sexy one.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:11 PM
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I think it's a bit much to ask that we know about somebody's website if he doesn't link to it from his name when he comments here. Except Standpipe's blog of course.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:11 PM
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20: next you're going to be claiming ignorance of READIN.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:13 PM
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Why does Baa hang out with Ben H? I know that's a rude question, but.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:17 PM
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It's horrifying that none of you people have ever commented on my blog that contains the playlists for my radio show. I feel so ignored.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:18 PM
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I always get the Bens confused.

That's why it's probably best to use simple, monosyllabic words when communicating with them.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:19 PM
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Someone mentioned Weinberger.

Bush The First's pardon of Weinberger was exactly the same as Bush The Second's quasi-pardon of Libby. Both pardons were obstruction of justice.

Walsh's report made it very clear that he thought that Bush The First was deeply involved in Iran-Contra, that he regretted not being able to finish his investigation of Bush, and he detailed the Bush team's delaying actions (led by John Schmitz of the LA Republican sex-criminal family).

The Weinberger pardon marked the first time a President ever pardoned someone in whose trial he might have been called as a witness, because the President was knowledgeable of factual events underlying the case.

The criminal investigation of Bush was regrettably incomplete......

A year later Bush was President-elect....This investigation developed a large amount of new material with which it intended to question President Bush. His interrogation was left to the end because, as President, he obviously could not be questioned repeatedly. It was Independent Counsel's expectation that he would be available after the completion of the 1992 Presidential election campaign.

In light of his access to information, Bush would have been an important witness. In an early interview with the FBI in December 1986 and in the OIC deposition in January 1988, Bush acknowledged that he was regularly informed of events connected with the Iran arms sales, including the 1985 Israeli missile shipments.2 These statements conflicted with his more extreme public assertions that he was ``out of the loop'' regarding the operational details of the Iran initiative and was generally unaware of the strong opposition to the arms sales by Secretary of Defense Weinberger and Secretary of State George P. Shultz.....

Had a final Bush interview occurred, the questioning regarding the non-production of Bush's diary would have focused on the decision of Bush and or Gray not to disclose the existence of the diary initially in April 1987, in response to OIC's document request, and to delay its ultimate production until December 1992. The questioning would have addressed Bush's familiarity with the 1987 OIC and congressional document requests, and his knowledge of the production of the Reagan diary in 1987. It would have sought an explanation of his previously described July 20, 1987, diary note condemning Shultz for producing Charles Hill's daily notes of Shultz's thoughts, discussions and activities.

It also would have covered Bush's diary entry of November 25, 1986, regarding a telephone call he had with North following his firing, and the substance of information he obtained from North and relayed to President Reagan regarding the fact that Israeli officials were extremely upset about the day's events.



Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:36 PM
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Brother, thy tail hangs down behind!

And how.

Kipling's Bandar-Log are a blatant satire on the notion that the Brown People could ever govern themselves. The jovial racism of the Disney movie seems quaint by comparison.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:51 PM
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Why does Baa hang out with Ben H? I know that's a rude question, but.

Maybe because Ben A. agrees with much of what Ben F. says. Crazy idea, I know, but sometimes people who post random comments in blog threads nevertheless hold morally reprehensible views.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:52 PM
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but sometimes people who post random comments in blog threads nevertheless hold morally reprehensible views

I, for example, hold that it is morally sound to eat live baby hamsters.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 12:55 PM
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26: I think, though, that it's meant from a "they'll let any monkey hammer out an opinion on the internet" perspective, taking the language of others and thinking themselves wise, that sort of thing, not as Kipling intended his satire.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 1:00 PM
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2, don't be silly. The Weinbergers and Cisneroses of the world need to have the same ability to do their jobs unfettered by criminal prosecutions when they're in government jobs as they do in the private sector.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 1:41 PM
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Stras, you don't have to be incendiary all the time. baa has even called out ben h. on his racism on their site.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 1:44 PM
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29: right, I didn't mean to impugn the Bandar-bloggers on that score.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 1:47 PM
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Nina Totenberg was reporting on NPR that Libby had paid his fine with a cashier's check. At the time of reporting it was not yet possible to determine whether he'd paid that from his personal funds or whether his conservative friends had provided the money. Apparently--and I don't understand the legal reasoning behind this--the judge thinks that it may not be legal to have Libby under supervised release/parole without his having done any prison time. Libby's getting off scot free.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 2:03 PM
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Why does Baa hang out with Ben H? I know that's a rude question, but.

No so rude, actually. Short version: because he's not the guy his blogging sometimes makes him appear to be. Long version: email me.

Kipling's Bandar-Log are a blatant satire on the notion that the Brown People could ever govern themselves.

I don't think that's right. While Kipling rarely goes in for exact analogies, the bandarlog -- who never do anything, but rather throw trash at the jungle dwellers in the (vain) hopes of being noticed -- seem like a closer mockery of the western press/criticalestablishment than for native rulers. As Cala suggests, it's this image -- hooting, self-important commentators -- that was behind the choice.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 2:09 PM
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35

33: It's not really that confusing. The sentencing statute only allows supervised release following jail time; it's doesn't contemplate supervised release as a stand-alone sentence.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 2:20 PM
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36

34 is either baa, or a highly accomplished baa stalker.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 2:24 PM
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I take it the author of 34 is Baa himself. I can deal with the "he's not as much of a jerk as he seems, he just doesn't think about what he's saying" explanation. I, personally, would still be uncomfortable blogging with someone like that, but hey, it's cool.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 2:24 PM
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38

d'oh, that was me.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 2:28 PM
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39

Stras, you don't have to be incendiary all the time.

I disagree - you craven accommodationist warmonger.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 2:28 PM
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34: I would have had my money on 'college friend who likes to play up the drama on the internet', personally.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 2:42 PM
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Um, although I'm not sure I want to extend this conversation -- I really want to get back to lurking, unlike some people here, I don't know anyone personally, and I know that condemning one person's blog on another person's blog is ultra, ultra lame-- but having asked the first question, I feel strangely compelled to follow up.

The entire dynamic of what I've been reading on the Bandarlog and, even, the response to it here one should be exhibts A, B and C about the way openly directed racism against Muslims (or maybe Arabs? I'm not sure) is socially acceptable in a way that discrimination against other groups is not. I mean, can you imagine anyone extending even the slightest comity or charity to someone who routinely even half-seriously referred to african americans and women as "retarded primitives"? Can you imagine anyone working in the business world using this kind of language about anyone but muslims -- the fear of a lawsuist alone would, I think, be sufficient to keep these kinds of thoughts off of a public website. But there seems to be something very different going on here. So, without meaning any disrespect to baa, whose comments here I've lurkingly read, enjoyed, and agreed with, I'm really curious as to why no one treats this dude as basically the equivalent of the "wake up white people" Klanmaster guy on the Howard Stern show. Or maybe people already do, and I'm not aware of it, and are sick of this conversation. But I, anonymous internet reader, was shocked, and if I were Muslim, I would treat this guy as pretty strong proof that I'm de facto fucked in this country, even (or especially) by it's elite, in a way that other people aren't.


Posted by: thumbtack | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 3:20 PM
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We don't really think about Ben H. at all, thumbtack. He's been mentioned two or three times over the years, generally to say, "geez, what a genocidal prick" (and once because he wrote a good post about having work done on his house); and people here only read that site, as far as I can tell, because baa posts there.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 3:26 PM
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Face it, ogged, you're racist against Muslims.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 3:33 PM
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There is that.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 3:33 PM
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Got it. And, just to be clear, I wasn't trying to imply that any of the regulars on this site -- who, by the way, have provided me with hours of free entertainment and healthy procrastination -- is sympathetic w/Ben H style views. It was just a shock to see evil things put so bluntly, and I felt compelled to put that down here.


Posted by: thumbtack | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 3:36 PM
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"baa" is baa's initials? That's seriously disappointing. I always took it as an ironic gesture towards those who accuse conservatives/Republicans of being sheeplike or stupid.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 3:39 PM
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47

Why can't it be both?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 3:40 PM
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48

Everyone knows baa is an evil alien mecha-sheep.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 3:44 PM
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42: I can't read that site except when you link to a specific comment. I find it visually overwhelming in a way that makes it very hard for me to follow the posts. The differentiation of authors by color just confuses me.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 3:59 PM
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I like the layout of the bandarlog a lot, myself.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 5:00 PM
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I do, too. A nice aesthetic sensibility, if sometimes genocidal.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 5:02 PM
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I've never read it, but when I clicked over this time I was like, ooh, clever design.

Once I figured out how the damn design worked, that is.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 5:07 PM
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They have evil alien mecha-sheep?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 5:08 PM
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54

It's clever, although the particular colors are not my favorite. But it does convey the three separate voices very nicely.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 5:09 PM
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As Slick Willy said today, the law is just a minor obstacle for Bush and Cheney.


Posted by: PoliticalCritic | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 5:21 PM
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I don't have an opinion on its aesthetics in any objective sense. I just get overwhelmed personally.

I think I get confused by any deviation from the standard blog-post-followed-by-comments format.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 5:46 PM
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39 is pretty hilarious.

Unless it's in earnest, in which case it's still pretty hilarious.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 07- 5-07 8:03 PM
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26: Kipling's Bandar-Log are a blatant satire on the notion that the Brown People could ever govern themselves.

Common mistake, this: actually they're a satire on the idea of giving women the vote. And Shere Khan is an expression of Kipling's antipathy towards the Government of India Act. Or possibly the Parnell Commission. Or the Savoy Opera Company.

Gosh, I love criticism.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:14 AM
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