Also, fires cover a much smaller area than a hurricane, move slower, So. Cal people mostly own cars and can get away, etc.
First, as the article acknowledges, Katrina was a much bigger event. Second, this fire problem just happened in 2003, didn't it? I bet NO will be pretty well prepped for Katrina II in 2009 if (God forbid) it happens again.
Yes, this is all about California (culture of competence) v. Louisiana (culture of corruption). Schwarzenegger has successfully not spoiled a reasonably functional system -- which, let's be honest, is apparently a high bar for lots of GOP politicians, so good for him.
Also, no one was afraid of the San Diego refugees. One of the creepiest things about NO was that there were people who could have walked out to places where assistance would have been available, but there were police keeping them in.
When I was at my grandmother's house, we were watching some news show that had a segment on people in one of the stadiums where they were housing people who were displaced. There was a creepy tone to the thing that felt like "see, white people can behave themselves in a stadium", overlooking the extreme contrasts between the two situations. I'll never forget a segment on all of the clowns they brought in to entertain the kids. BIG difference from people without clean water.
I bet NO will be pretty well prepped for Katrina II in 2009 if (God forbid) it happens again.
Not a sure bet at all.
Grand Forks was flooded in April 1997. The victims were not blamed. The response was basically efficient, but the town has not completely recovered. Katrina brought the worst out in a lot of people.
One of the creepiest things about NO was that there were people who could have walked out to places where assistance would have been available, but there were police keeping them in.
Probably not a coincidence that they went door to door confiscating guns first.
I bet NO will be pretty well prepped for Katrina II in 2009 if (God forbid) it happens again.
Prepped in what sense? What has been improved? I think the response at all levels at government was to say "LOL we're just government, we're a bunch of losers who can't do anything, you need to rely on yourselves".
10: I'd be astonished if there aren't fairly specific plans in place for responses to NO-related weather problems. It's not the harm to the people that the government wants to avoid, but the embarrassment. Similarly, it's one thing if terrorists successfully attack the US in the near future, and it's another if they do so by flying planes into buildings.
11: You should be more prepared for astonishment. Especially when it comes to LA/NO governance.
It's not the harm to the people that the government wants to avoid, but the embarrassment.
It does not seem like the government behaves competently as a means to avoid embarrassment. Sometimes the government behaves competently. But I think when the stakes become "embarrassment", the people running the show descend further into incompetence.
Becks, why do you point to tax rates at all? Isn't the overwhelming difference between CA and LA the overall wealth of the places?
Right. There's a difference between tax rates and tax revenues. Poorly funded school districts often have higher property tax rates than neighboring wealthy districts -- the problem is that a lower rate on a higher property value brings in more actual money.
Watching the coverage with Rah last week I could not resist saying, "Oh, look, Chirtoff's not afraid of white people." Gods, I hate our government.
s/Chirtoff/Chertoff, of course. Stupid hands.
I'm never sure that what looks like abject failure to us might not be a success for them, seen through other eyes.
We've already mentioned the notion that the behavior of refugees was being graded somehow. There's also the trope about government's inability to help, look, this proves it. What good are taxes?
These kinds of thoughts make me bite my tongue on more and more issues these days.
According to the Tax Foundation (an anti-tax outfit, but they do some good data collection), California ranks 12th in state and local tax burden (11.5%), while Louisiana ranks 17th (11.0%).
Once you factor in federal taxes, California shoots up to 8th and Louisiana drops to 44th (this is largely an income/wealth effect). So score one for Dan and LB.
People owned their own transportation. When the firefighters came in and said, everyone out! here come the flames! people packed up their SUVs and left. When NOLA said everyone out! here comes the hurricane! people tried to take the bus and the train except that they had already stopped running.
I read yesterday that ONE THIRD of the avocado trees in Southern California were lost in the fires. Last year it was frost, this year it's catastrophe---am I ever going to be able to afford good avocados again?!
I think the default belief should be that the deficient response to NOLA was motivated partly by the goal of making Louisiana a whiter, more Republican state, and turning NO into a Las Vegas-like recreation town. See Naomi Klein, "Shock Doctrine".
That sounds about right. I wouldn't attribute the deficient prior planning to that motivation, but the post-Katrina response looks very much as if the administration viewed it as a providential bit of fortuitous slum-clearance.
CA takes emergency response very seriously, and does the stuff you have to do. They recruit state workers all year round to get trained in emergency response; that is paid training and you get time away from your job to do it. They keep a floor of the flood center empty and standing ready; no encroaching boxes and binders on the shelves to block access to your emergency equipment. They have a command structure in place (very hierarchical, very strict protocols, good for fast decisions) that we all learn. They were incredibly good about letting me (a junior nobody) watch every instance of decision-making. (They're pretty desperate to fill behind them as the senior flood managers age out.)
I don't know how much of that is money (I assume a lot), and how much is simply priority and preparation, but I came away deeply impressed.
22: That sort of thing - that a lot of people up the chain tutted quietly and rubbed their hands together at the thought of redevelopment and bleaching the voter registry - is exactly what I suspect. I just feel like it's crazy to say it out loud, so I usually don't.
CA takes emergency response very seriously, and does the stuff you have to do.
I've got to say that I'm really glad to hear it. There's some apocalyptic event in California every single damn year, as far as I can tell.
re: 25
I just feel like it's crazy to say it out loud, so I usually don't.
That sentiment is the product of a lot of very hard work on the part of a bunch of people. It's become almost impossible to say things that damn near everyone knows to be true because those things are 'dirty hippy' or 'conspiracy theorist' talk.
27: Completely OT, but how's the "one-legged Lithuanian lesbian" line produced by the Tory leader playing in the UK? I heard a report about it this morning on BBC World Report and about drove off the road.
I think that graft and cronyism was the main cause of the original bad preparations.
Besides ranting about shiftless Negroes, the wingers mostly tried to figure out ways of blaming Democrats in local government. Local graft and incompetence really were a big part of the problem, but the wingers didn't actually care about that. They were just trying to divert attention from Bush.
Something about the blatantness of the Katrina response makes me think of it as the most vividly disheartening event in American history (except for a few massacres). There was so much transparent malice, pointless stupidity, and in-your-face brazennnes about what was done and not done, and said and not said.
26: sure does seem that way. And, no. You cannot have avocados.
Is there evidence of that intent in Klein or elsewhere? For me, the default assumption is the same as Kanye West's, they just don't care about black people. Is there evidence they had the long-term consequences in mind?
25, 27: You know, I read Emerson's comment, and thought, "Duh, of course." And then thought, "But I wouldn't actually say it, it sounds paranoid." And then thought "Damn. That's not right. Better comment."
re: 28
Actually, I hadn't heard of it until you mentioned it. I haven't really watched the news since the weekend, though.
Campbell seems to be claiming he was misquoted. Apparently he joked about 'one legged Lithuanian dance groups' (in the context of Arts Council grants).
I don't imagine it'll hurt him. A large part of the Tory core constituency is pretty reactionary and those who aren't will be inclined to cut him some slack.
re: 32
I can think of several other similar 'facts' in the UK political context -- things which everyone knows to be true but which no-one says in the media except when reporting the views of 'conspiracy buffs' or the 'loony left'.
31: I'd have to google around for it, but I've seen repeated complaints from displaced New Orleansians that there is (was?) habitable housing that people aren't being allowed to return to.
36: I've heard this first hand, and probably seen it a year ago. The latter meaning that I've seen blocked off buildings that appear perfectly habitable, but by no means actually inspected them, so who knows.
Without rehashing the whole sorry Katrina episode, the Navy did have the USS Bataan http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/007448.phpon station in the Gulf of Mexico and she arrived near NO as soon as the hurricane passed, and her aircrews did heroic work resuing people off roofs. Many of the bridges had collapsed, were impassable or were unable to handle the tonnage of the trucks bringing relief supplies. The Delta is a hard place to get around in once the primary infrastructure is damaged.
Of course, in California most of the emergency prep is for earthquakes, but it works for fires, floods or terrorist attacks as well. There are always public service spots reminding us to have disaster prep kits at home, at work and in your car. They say to be able to self sustain for at least three days to a week.
if I recall correctly, the Bataan sat idle offshor for days waiting for a go-ahead to help. Reported as source of great frustration to many on board. Eventually they were undoubtably a big help.
30: According to some economist I heard this morning imported avocados will satisfy the guacamole jones without much of a price rise.
39 could be misremembering the actual chronology --- there was a BBC report about this I remember, but there was also a lot of contradictory information flying around at the time. I'm not meaning to impugn the Navy particularly, and clearly in restrospect the relief efforts were a massive clusterfuck which wasn't helped at all by difficult (as TLL mentions) conditions on the ground.
39. Yep. And you can thank Gov. Blanco for that. She did not want to "federalize" the project until she realized the magnitude of the problem. Precious time was lost.
It's funny, I think vaguely that I wouldn't mind eating locally and seasonally, even in NY -- I like root vegetables fine, and I enjoy getting all excited when things come into season. But man, I'd miss avocadoes.
42: No, she was asking for federal help pretty much instantly. I think you're talking about not wanting to turn the LA National Guard over to federal control for the first few days -- a decision which did not obviously cause any of the myriad other screwups.
TLL - Maybe more of the municipal emergency prep is for earthquakes, but at the state level, they have separate systems/buildings for flood and fire emergencies. (Same incident command model.) They don't have one emergency response center that they activate for whatever comes up.
My memory is that the Feds drove a hard bargain and put conditions on sending help which Blanco was unwilling to meet.
I've learned through Wikipedia that Hass avocado trees can withstand temperatures of -1 degree Celsius, so I anticipate being able to eat avocados from my backyard &mdash estate-grown! &mdash before long. The Willamette Valley will likely have to switch from Pinot Noir to Syrah at that point, but I suppose I could live with that.
Imported avocados! Maybe Mexican avocados would be alright, but those tasteless North African behemoths are right out. And of course if they're being imported from Chile, they were plucked seriously unripe, then frosen, and if you catch just the right moment in their defrost cycle, you might be able to eat them before they rot.
Fucking economists.
I anticipate being able to eat avocados from my backyard
WANT
49 If (and this is by no means certain) you can get the good mexican ones, they are at least as good as anything out of california.
DaveL has an avocado tree in his backyard. Bastard.
People argued in the 30s that we shouldn't invade people's backyards and take their avocados and you know what that got us? Hitler. Not guacamole. Hitler.
then frosen, and if you catch just the right moment in their defrost cycle,
This sort of thing is a disaster. The 100 mile diet people aren't insane.
Megan- I'm sure you're right, and I know that the first responders train constantly for different scenarios. And obviously it doesn't do a person any good to had emergency supplies in a house that just burned to the ground. i was just reinforcing your point that all levels of government do take preparedness quite seriously.
Thanks for the link, LB. It boggles my mind that in the facre of a disastwer of this magnitude that elected officials would haggle over details and worry about who was to be blamed. Plenty of time for that later.
JM, dear, I will be happy to get you a few nice Co-op avocados if you like. I bathe in good cheap organic avocados.
An average avocado tree produces about 120 avocados annuallyI'd settle for a fraction of that.
I bathe in good cheap organic avocados.
Did this make anyone else think of the cover of Whipped Cream, by Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass?
54: Yeah, I think that's very sensible. I don't do it because of time/energy shopping constraints, but I'd like to. (Although I've never really looked into the practicalities -- I figure around NYC I'd probably need 200 miles radius, and I'm not sure if that gets me any grains at all.)
Not guacamole. Hitler.
Avocatus diaboli?
Aren't avocados much less innocent than they seem? Chock full of bad transfats and shit? JackM's friends and family should intervene.
Avocado = abogado = "lawyer". Need I say more?
I do? Well, then, in Nahuatl the word is āhuacatl = "testicle".
Lawyer's testicles. Yuk.
What, do I have to start shipping you people avocadoes?
The cost of the fire thing came up yesterday in my dentist's chair. She was bitching about taxes, about how oppressed she feels as a single person, about how she doesn't want to pay for other people's kids' educations or for illegal immigrants who aren't contributing anything, and what the hell does all this tax money go for, anyway? They can't possibly spend that much on roads. So I said, well, the fires we just had probably cost a bundle....
Since apparently I need a ton of work because my molars are all cracked with grinding my teeth at night over conversations like this, I figure I'll have plenty of opportunity over the next six months or so to keep pointing out to her that as a single woman who owns her own home and her own business, she's actually doing rather well, and that maybe she should keep in mind that the kids of today will be her dentist tomorrow. I did make sympathetic noises yesterday about the importance of differentiating between small local business owners and big national and multinational chains, though, in terms of tax burdens, and promised to do some research about whether, in fact, a national health care plan would actually cost her more or less than paying 50% for all her employees and herself.
Knecht, those are the ones from Chile. Weren't you reading along?
55: And apparently, Blanco didn't.
Bitch, you probably don't want to antagonize a dentist working on yourownself.
65: So far, no antagonism. I think we've both realized we're complete opposites politically and are trying to use the opportunity to have a conversation.
Avocado = abogado = "lawyer". Need I say more?
In French, avocat = avocat = lawyer = avocado.
What, do I have to start shipping you people avocadoes?
That was rather explicitly my deal with you, B.
Hass avocado trees can withstand temperatures of -1 degree Celsius
Tree, not fruit. Anything below freezing damages the fruit. I don't think AWB is right about frozen Chilean avocados, I think that they just pick them really green.
Several years ago avos got so dear that armed bandits were hijacking trucks on their way to the packing house. I hope we don't see that again.
"What's that? I can't understand you. I suppose that means you don't need any more procaine..."
61: Avocados have the good kind of fat. You're still not supposed to sit down and eat a whole one for dinner (blush) but they're good for you.
I did not eat avocados, salad, eggs, olives, beets, mushrooms, veined cheeses, or half a dozen other staples of my current diet before the age of 21 or so. What the hell was wrong with me? Some of these I blame on the fact that I only had access to nasty versions of them, but eggs? I would die without eggs now.
Re. the post, though, I read something the other day (I think maybe it was the Rude Pundit) that pointed out that not only could evacuees actually evacuate, but bystanders who wanted to help in SoCal were able to just drive to the stadium *in their cars* and pass out food, water, massages, etc.
69: picking them green like that (and avocados are hardly alone in this) is a sin.
68: And as I said, I'm waiting for them to reach edible size.
You're still not supposed to sit down and eat a whole one for dinner
What? Says who? Don't listen to crazy people.
I require that lifeguard/surfers hand-pick my organic avocados and feed them to me. Else, why live here?
LB - if you meant it about the root vegetables, could you get a box? I figure the four months of root vegetables are the deterrent for most people.
I don't think AWB is right about frozen Chilean avocados
Twas JM.
B., get a new dentist now! An annoyed dentist is not to be trifled with. She'll give you crowns the wrong size for your mouth, or extract a few extra teeth, or something like that. "Ha! Sure, it looks sort of like a molar up there, but trust me, it's an incisor. We have a name for that kind of incisor. Many think that they're especially attractive."
Alternatively, you could speak to this one only tactfully and only about happy topics, but wouldn't that be formally impossible in this actual world?
You're still not supposed to sit down and eat a whole one for dinner
Right, you eat it as a snack beforehand. Avocados are tasty, but no way does one make a meal.
74: I dunno. I read recently that 1/6 of an avocado is considered a serving and I was deeply chastened. Fresh cherry-tomato-and-jalapeno guac of one avocado slathered on stove-top-toasted corn tortillas is one of the greatest dinners available to the single person.
Fresh cherry-tomato-and-jalapeno guac of one avocado slathered on stove-top-toasted corn tortillas
Ok, that's a meal.
picking them green like that (and avocados are hardly alone in this) is a sin.
Particularly sinful for avocados, because they, like melons (and unlike, say, peaches), do not continue to ripen off the vine.
An average avocado tree produces about 120 avocados annually
The ones I have seen looked like they had many more than that. Maybe they are special dwarf varieties for easy commercial harvesting.
75: We do. Unfortunately, with the kids who aren't crazy about many types of vegetables yet, and everyone being busy, we also do a whole lot of eating whatever from the grocery store. We eat some of the CSA stuff, but a lot never makes it out of the fridge.
Damn. I can't insult avocados any more. Damn.
If you want to be plump with low cholesterol, avocados are the fruit for you!
Avocados are tasty, but no way does one make a meal.
But combined with four slices of bacon and two slices of whole wheat toast, there is no better meal anywhere.
Tree, not fruit
Shit, you're right. I wasn't aware that Hass avocados are harvested in April in the Northern Hemisphere.
I read recently that 1/6 of an avocado is considered a serving
Really? I have a co-worker who halves them, takes the pit out, pours soy sauce in the reservoir, and spoons out all the soy-soaked green deliciousness. As a snack.
maybe that 1/6 an avocado is just recognition that if you have the nasty picked-too-early and shipped-too-far type that most of the country has access too, then you're lucky if 1/6 of it isn't black by the time the thing isn't rock hard.
JM, dear, I will be happy to get you a few nice Co-op avocados if you like. I bathe in good cheap organic avocados.
WANT WANT WANT
88 is a variant of the canonical 1/2 avacodo with salt. sounds pretty good, too.
I've mentioned this before, but mashed avocado on a toasted English muffin topped with sharp cheddar and broiled is a wonderful sandwich. Needs salt -- I'm not a heavy salter generally, but a touch of salt snaps the avocado into focus.
If you want to be plump with low cholesterol, avocados are the fruit for you!
Sigh. Plump with low cholesterol, low BP, shiny hair, clear skin, strong fingernails, and high resistance to disease.
No, Stanley, you put freshly squeesed lemon juice----from a Meyer lemon if you can get one---in your avocado pit. And for dinner, you put shrimp in it.
Yeah, I worry that even with my cooking habits, I couldn't go through a box. And I like the shopping. But maybe when my life gets fuller, it'll be a good trade-off for me.
94: sounds horrible, doesn't it.
In the future I will feed my sex slaves primarily on avocados.
All those avocado recipes make me nauseous. I'm fairly greedy and eat a fair bit of fat, but fat in a form as 'raw' and nakedly fatty as an avocado makes me feel sick.
Adding cheddar to avocado ... !
JM, when did you stop using Z's? Frosen (49)? Squeese?
96: this is a real problem with CSA; it's often nearly impossible to work out as a single person without huge waste.
from a Meyer lemon if you can get one
I have two ripening on the tree on my windowsill right now. But I think I'm required to make pie out of them.
99: I can't imagine a decent avacode making it to the UK. Are you sure that isnt' the problem?
97: Yeah, for some reason, "But I have very low blood pressure!" does not attract potential lovers.
or I could be totally misremembering MM's local.
99: Even better if you butter the English muffins first.
(All right, I was just kidding about that bit. But really, don't knock it till you've tried it.)
And for dinner, you put shrimp in it.
Try this recipe, J-Mo. You'll thank me.
107: even better on fresh sourdough.
this is a real problem with CSA
In fact there is a reason for the grocer. He absorbs the waste (actually, passes it on to you in the form of higher prices, but, you know).
re: 104
We get good avocados here. The UK is no further away from warm places that grow avocados than the non-avocado growing bits of the US [like New York] are.
JM, when did you stop using Z's?
That key is broken, has been for six months or so. I was trying to get away with UK spellings and the occasional cut n' paste or onscreen keyboard, but I'm getting cranky about it.
99: I can't imagine a decent avacode making it to the UK. Are you sure that isnt' the problem
Nah, the UK is as close to anyplace you'd grow an avocado as I am (or, not much further in terms of shipping time), it just has more borders in the way.
But do they grow Hass avocados, ttaM? Those footballs from North Africa do not count.
I crave avocado maki. Maybe there's a lunch deal down the street.
ttaM, have you always said nauseous to describe how you feel, not a quality of the thing, instead of nauseated, as we do—or are supposed to?
Looks good, Knecht! I like the idea of putting some wee bits of celery in.
re: 114
Yes, we get Hass avocados.
112: I can't imagine a decent avocado making it to NY for the same reasons.
It sounds like it might just be selection bias, but I've never had a decent avacado anywhere that wasn't pretty close to being able to grow them. And I have tried.
re: 116
I'd not normally use the word at all. I'd say something vernacular, like 'it gives me the boak'. But, generally, I'd say it makes me feel nauseous. Yeah.
re: 119
Spain is one of the major avocado producers in the EU. Avocados can get from Spain to the UK in a couple of hours. It probably sits on the shelf waiting to be bought for massively more time than it spends in transit.
121: Ah, I'd forgotten about the mediteranean ones... makes sense.
Avocados ripen just fine off the tree.
123 not if they are picked to early. Or else they are screwing them up in some other way.
I have a co-worker who halves them, takes the pit out, pours soy sauce in the reservoir, and spoons out all the soy-soaked green deliciousness.
My grandfather does this, only with capers instead of soy sauce.
Needs salt -- I'm not a heavy salter generally, but a touch of salt snaps the avocado into focus.
mmm, salt.
Avocados ripen just fine soften off the tree
Ttam, you are insane.
Particularly sinful for avocados, because they, like melons (and unlike, say, peaches), do not continue to ripen off the vine.
Wrong. Peaches do *not* continue to ripen off the tree; they begin to rot, and therefore soften. This is why peaches in grocery stores are almost universally disgusting, and why peaches simply should not be shipped, period. Avocados, on the other hand, have to be mature before you pick them, but they won't soften up on the tree, so you *have* to pick them (or wait for them to drop) and let them sit a day or two.
125: Not soy sauce or capers; balsamic vinegar. (And don't *fill* the hole--a teaspoon or two is plenty.)
The fires (and 9/11) had the good graces to happen in relatively wealthy areas. Katrina did not. If the Harris fire in southern San Diego County had threatened metropolitan San Diego south of Interstate 8, it may have been Katrina all over again.
In French, avocat = avocat = lawyer = avocado.
And how do the eggs get involved?
All this talk about avocadoes is making me think that I should revise my decades-long policy of not eating them or anything containing them. I like fat, after all.
I'm slightly allergic to avocadoes—eating them makes my mouth itchy. Avos fall in a family of allergens to which I have varying reactions: latex (none), melon (mouth itchy), and bananas (POISON DEATH).
Just don't get the idea to start mixing them with Campari.
130: I wondered about that.
I'd think our response to a disaster—we had the fire a long time ago, and the heat wave was hard to monitor because its victims were hidden inside—in Chicago would be somewhere between CA and LA in efficiency, depending crucially on what it was and what part of town.
You put the lime in the coconut; you drink them both up.
134 =>> 131.
Smasher, where do you stand with cashews and papayas?
133: put condoms on your bananas first.
Apparently the eggs get involved as a substitute for avocadoes!
The original advocaat was a liquor made by the Dutch population of Suriname and Recife with avocados. Upon returning to the Netherlands, where avocados were not available, a similar texture was achieved with thickened egg yolk.
On cashews I stand on the side of light: They are delicious. I can't remember ever eating a papaya, actually.
136: you're such a silly 'smasher
Interrupting the great avocado debate....
Given that there is a whole world of rightwing horseshit about Katrina (rapes/snipers/etc) I'm assuming there's a similar one on the other side.
I exclude the Potemkin village thing because I translated both the independent German TV reports, and the FEMA fake press conference thing corroborates.
140: Papayas are unexciting even when perfectly fresh.
Easy to grow, though. If the climate is right, they'll sprout right out of your trash heap.
139.---omg. Egg yolk is just not equivalent to avocado!
140: !!! Papayas are lovely.
Also, by rights Ben should have his California drivers' license revoked and be forced to pay out-of-state tuition, if he won't eat avocados.
I am not crazy about papaya, but I like to say "papaya." If cherimoyas were not prohibitively expensive, I'd buy them quite often.
How can people not like papaya? Next you'll all say you don't like mangoes.
Story told by my brother:
Back in the bad old days, he was crossing the border into an East Bloc country on a train and had some avocados with him. The customs inspector informed him that it was a grave violation of the law to bring in this exotic foreign produce, and did he not realize what a risk he was creating for domestic agriculture, etc. As the inspector was leaving with the confiscated fruit, he asked "So, how do you cook these?"
He told him to boil them for a couple of hours, at least.
Klug, I don't believe that. That isn't consistent with what I've seen of the people doing emergency response with the state. I've been on the flood side, not fire, but after working with them, I don't believe they take any loss of life or property lightly.
I have a ton of respect for the ones I met and observed.
I don't mind them, but they're not all that flavorful. Vaguely melony.
145: ben's in cali? It's worse than I though. There is a bit of a north/south divide, though. I think the way it works is that if you live in nocal you can refuse to eat avocados on the grounds that they aren't local, but only if you eat artichokes all season. Of course anyone with access to fresh artichokes should do this anyway.
I don't think I've ever eaten mango, either. These fruits all look too tart.
Also, by rights Ben should have his California drivers' license revoked and be forced to pay out-of-state tuition, if he won't eat avocados.
Ríete, pero no lo mates.
Papayas aren't tart. Blandly sweet if anything. You want to squeeze a little lime juice over them to wake them up a bit.
No, honestly, it is quite normal and proper to ripen avocados off the tree. However, it is also quite true that they must mature on the tree, and that an avocado that is picked when it is immature will not ripen properly.
As I mentioned last time we had this discussion, I'm not a big fan of avocados. Mangoes are good, but you have to wait until they're completely ripe or they're all tart and stringy. I'm not sure I've ever had a papaya.
Mm, papaya with lime.
Don't tell Smasher the truth. Let him continue to subscribe to these pathetically risible east coast provincialisms.
Teo, you also should have your western cred revoked. Green mango salad is amazing.
See? Tart and stringy. Do not want.
Mangoes are the ones that taste like uncured lumber, right? The retsina of fruit?
Two avocados fulfill your MDR of fats. If everything else you ate was zero-fat, you could stay model-thin on an avocado diet.
I was talking to someone not too long ago who told me that she developed a late-in-life latex allergy. She'd been on the pill when she was married but when she got divorced and started seeing someone new, they used condoms. Around that time, she started getting crippling stomach cramps and became incontinent (um, both ways). It took them a few weeks but they realized it was the latex. (Points to the dude for sticking around through that unpleasantness.) Now they're using lambskin condoms and everything's hunky dory.
Mangoes are the ones that taste like uncured lumber, right? The retsina of fruit?
Look, I know you're all midwestern and shit, but you *used* to live in a civilized part of the world, John. There's just no excuse for this kind of thing.
re: 128
I don't mind small amounts of avocado. Say, sliced in with some raw red onions, some halved cherry tomatoes and some balsamic vinegar, they are nice. I quite like the flavour, I'm just not mad keen on the mouth-feel of the fat so I couldn't eat more than a small amount without feeling a bit queasy -- avocado plus cheddar [blech].
Teo, you also should have your western cred revoked. Green mango salad is amazing.
What, because I don't share your decadent west coast tastes? I'll have you know that we used to sell mangoes.
I just never developed a taste for two-by-fours, B.
Hrmpf. See if I make you a sandwich.
163: Still crazy. Do you also dislike ice cream, or sausage?
161: I know someone who similarly found out about her devoloping latex allergy --- but from epesiotomy (sp?) sutures. What fun.
164: And you don't like them, nor avocados. BANNED.
re: 167
No, it's the very specific avocado fat. It reminds me of cheese that's been left at room temperature too long and has begun to sweat. In small quantities, it's fine, as I said.
Sausages, on the other hand, are lovely.
I don't think I've ever eaten mango, either.
OMG. It's been so long since I've lived back east, I'd forgotten such a thing was possible. My daughters have loved mangoes since they were a year old; not an entirely good thing, because though we can get excellent mangoes, they're still fairly expensive.
re: 169
Oh yeah, I don't really like mangoes either.
170: Crazy.
171: Indeed. Western kids, who know about mangos, avocados, and sushi, are the best.
,em>164: And you don't like them, nor avocados. BANNED.
Where did I say I didn't like mangoes? I like mangoes.
Western kids, who know about mangos, avocados, and sushi, are the best.
California isn't really the West, you know.
When mangoes are bad, they're inedible, and so I am often wary of buying them unless they are the perfect size and heft. One way to avoid the mango gamble is to buy golden "champagne" mangoes; they're perfectly sweet, flavorful, and have velvety, creamy flesh.
116: The OED allows "nauseous" as a description of a person's state (and not just of a nausea-causing thing). It's doesn't seem preferable to use "nauseated," in the U. S. or elsewhere.
OED: b. orig. U.S. Of a person: affected with nausea; having an unsettled stomach; (fig.) disgusted, affected with distaste or loathing."
173: Crazy brits. I bet you don't like pb&j either.
There seem to disposable lambskins now. Traditional condoms needed to be washed and cared for, if I remember correctly. I'm sure there's a very knowing wiki about it.
177: You lack all credibility on these matters now.
180: It's genetics, bitch. Scots are predisposed to like grease, in all forms. Perhaps some are developing a disliking of vegetable and dairy based fats, as self preservation.
That is, untill someone figures out how to deep fry avacado.
re: 180
Damn right, it's an abomination and an affront to all that is true and beautiful.
I agree with Emerson, though. Lychees are nice.
re: 178
At one of our local street carnivals, they were selling those in big boxes. My wife gorged herself on them for days.
When mangoes are bad, they're inedible
Look who else doesn't like mangoes! Get her, B!
AWB doesn't claim to be a westerner, and "when X is bad, it's inedible" is not a claim of disliking. When *anything*'s bad, it's inedible.
I adore mangoes enough to care about having good ones. I'm the same way with olives; I'd rather go without than eat bad ones.
Are you enjoying this, b? Because I'm not.