Re: Yupped Up Feeding Time

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frist!

probably not after I write this.

I love our creuset, and often use it for recipes where first we saute in the bottom and then simmer in the pot. It's definitely not nonstick, but the bottom stayed useable for a long time (over ten years). We finally got a significant gouge in the bottom and we've been meaning to replace it for a couple months.


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:21 PM
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we've been meaning to replace it for a couple months.

If there's a Le Creuset store near you, there's a good chance they'll let you exchange it for a new one. I've used them and I know they're great, but I'm wondering if there's something else that's better or more appropriate.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:23 PM
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I don't know that you need a dutch oven type thing, but enameled iron is definitely the way to go. I use Chantal stuff, and it's great. Not non-stick but pretty straightforward to clean.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:27 PM
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I have a lovely Le Creuset pot that I enjoy, but it's tiny. Honestly, I make lentils all the time in the stainless steel I inherited from my mom's kitchen, which is even easier to clean than my LC, heats up faster (I am impatient), and isn't non-stick. But if you want an excuse to buy LC, lentils are as good as any.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:28 PM
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Buy the motherfucking Creuset already, you fucking yuppie scum.

I wish I could afford Creuset.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:29 PM
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No, I don't want an excuse to buy one. I've had one (well, shared with the ex) and I'm not a huge fan of the weight. A stainless steel what shape thingy do you use?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:29 PM
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If you weren't such a yuppie, I'd point out that plain ol' unenameled cast iron would also work just fine, and would add iron to your diet.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:30 PM
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Or yeah, stainless steel is perfectly fine. Most pots are "round."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:31 PM
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I'm waiting for someone to recommend the diamond-encrusted double-lined All-Clad Exclusive Signature collection, B.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:31 PM
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Progresso Lentil Soup is delightful, and multiple cans live in my desk at work awaiting my regard. Just buy that, purist.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:32 PM
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I have a 1-qt single-handle + lid, a 2-qt single-handle + lid, and a 5-qt double-handle + lid.

The smallest one has the least thick bottom, so I only use it if I'm making a little broth or keeping an eye on it. The middle one probably gets the most use for lentil-type cooking, as it has a nice heavy bottom (not copper or anything, though that would be nice), and I use the big one for large amounts and for candy-making, since it heats up very evenly.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:32 PM
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Diamond encrusted cookware is a bitch to clean.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:33 PM
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Ten bucks ogged shuts down this thread, too. 2-1 odds.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:33 PM
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I have that exact pot! I inherited it from my grandfather. It does lentils just great, and it's really not that hard to clean up afterwards.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:33 PM
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Oh, and I got a pair of those SeanStore pants for my honey. He'd better like them.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:34 PM
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I got a pair of those SeanStore pants for my honey

Woot! I feel all helpful now. They make nice pants.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:35 PM
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Last night, I made puy lentils, quinoa and brown rice in a broth made from leeks, poblano seeds, onions, garlic, dried ancho, guajillo, and arbol peppers, a huge bunch of cilantro stems, and a huge bunch of parsley stems. After the lentils, quinoa, and rice were cooked, I added some butter and pecorino romano cheese.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:35 PM
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No one is fooled into thinking that 16 was on-topic, AWB.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:36 PM
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(I was also making cream of leek and poblano soup, so it's not like I wasted leeks and poblanos on broth alone.)


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:36 PM
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The topic is "yupped up feeding time." 16 is perfectly apropos.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:37 PM
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Lentils is on-topic! You're making lentils! Boo!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:37 PM
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ogged: do you soak your lentils?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:37 PM
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No one soaks lentils.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:38 PM
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Not done, old chap.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:38 PM
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23: I was hoping to go delightfully off-topic, Bear.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:38 PM
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I soak my lentils.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:39 PM
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They looked like nice pants. The Bulgarian guy at the counter was happy that I talked politics with him, so he gave me a $20 discount. I needed it, frankly.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:39 PM
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Ha, here (this comment is mysterious on topic) the sales guys are somewhat flaming and will stick their hand down your pants to see how much room you've got in the waist.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:41 PM
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26: Success! Ruined.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:41 PM
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28: Hell, I've had insurance salesmen do that to me.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:43 PM
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Meh, what the heck: Do you stuff the lentils in your pockets just before the pre-dinner shower?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:43 PM
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Don't act like soaking lentils is crazy, people. You and your in-group behaviors. Now tell me more about cookware.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:44 PM
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Why do people hate non-stick? Is it the TFA thing? (Easily avoidable.) Or is it because you can't glaze as well?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:45 PM
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I've had insurance salesmen do that to me

In a professional capacity?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:45 PM
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26. Figures.

Man, I had the awesomest work-dinner tonight. Our Founder, two drinks ahead of me, staying just on the entertaining side of embarrassing, with a very attractive rep from a vendor company picking up the tab. Life is good.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:45 PM
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The dish approximately described here represents the apotheosis of the lentil.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:45 PM
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Science, bitches.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:46 PM
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32: Do you have gas or electric?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:47 PM
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I have no idea if this is true, but one of my best friends, who is a reasonably successful chef in NOLA, insists that the high-end stainless cookware, All-Clad and the like, really is best suited for professional kitchens. Why, you ask? Well, she claims that the pros aren't afraid/are trained to use gobs of oil (or other grease), which conducts heat evenly across the bottom of pans that otherwise aren't even cookers. And, she adds, the yuppy stainless pans, because they really are designed for the pros, are intended to be used on cooktops that produce scary BTUs, thus throwing off insanely high heat. Without all of the grease, then, one gets food that isn't cooked evenly, and pans that are badly burnt all the time.

We used All-Clad for years and hated it. It was heavy and things didn't turn out as well as I would have liked. As a lousy craftsman who always blames his tools, I found the above conversation remarkably satisfying. Again, I don't know if it's true, but it vindicated my lousy cooking.


Posted by: anmik | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:48 PM
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Electric.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:48 PM
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The Bulgarian guy at the counter was happy that I talked politics with him

Fuck Zhelyu Zhelev! Dissident my foot, the guy couldn't wait to have a secret police of his own.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:48 PM
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A round stainless steel pot, say 12-inch diameter, 8- to 10-inch in height, relatively heavy-bottomed, will do for lentils just fine. It won't serve as a dutch oven, obviously, but is less expensive and really will serve fine. Copper-bottomed is nice but not essential.

That is, pretty much what AWB said she uses; that's what I use. You should be able to get many years out of it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:51 PM
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40: Why are you worrying about cookware? First order of business: you must either move or order in.


Posted by: anmik | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:51 PM
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That paper is pretty pathetic. Soaking the lentils increases their weight and hydration and reduces their cooking time? Who'da thunk? I wonder if the Egyptian government funded that study.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:51 PM
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Ah, so the way to get discount pants is to study Bulgarian politics. Makes sense.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:52 PM
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See, if you'd had gas, I would have insisted you buy enameled, since it responds much more quickly to heat change. With electric, you won't be turning on a dime anyway, so cast iron wouldn't be horrible. Still, I do love my Chantal.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:52 PM
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It is not wrong to waterboard lentils.


Posted by: anmik | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:52 PM
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Also improved the digestibility of protein and reduced tannins.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:52 PM
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You forgot seed color.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:54 PM
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This one is considerably cheaper and likely every bit as good for your purposes. It's the one pot I use more than probably any other cookware, and trust me, I'm a miserable kitchen snob. Plus, Le Creuset lasts forever. It's heavy and expensive for a reason.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:54 PM
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From the back of one of the bags of lentils in my cupboard:

Lentils require no soaking or salt for preparation.

Who are you going to trust, some crazy Egyptians or the fine people at the Shur-Fine corporation?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:54 PM
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It is not wrong to waterboard lentils.

Maybe not in Egypt, but this is America.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:55 PM
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How is that (genuine question) superior to the one I linked?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:55 PM
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I'm personally opposed to waterboarding lentils, but I think it's a good idea.
I have one of these, I seasoned it but haven't used it much. I bought it to do that no-knead bread recipe that was in the NYT but I haven't gotten around to it yet.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:55 PM
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How is that (genuine question) superior to the one I linked?

It's less expensive.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:56 PM
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Damn close tags.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:56 PM
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51: I'll go with the fine people at Shur-Fine. This business of soaking the lentils in a saline solution is altogether too fussy.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:57 PM
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I also tend to only buy tiny lentils, like puy and beluga, and soaking them is just ridiculous, since they barely take half an hour to cook anyway. Maybe it's work it with red and brown lentils, which are considerably bigger.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:59 PM
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Speaking of which, the one awesome thing I can't get at the Co-op is beluga lentils. WANT. Fairway has them in bulk.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:59 PM
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The only thing I've ever done with lentils is lentil soup, no point in soaking because you boil the hell out of them.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:00 PM
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How is that (genuine question) superior to the one I linked?

As teo pwned, it's superior to the tune of $50. You won't miss the quart's worth of capacity, and for, say, roasting a chicken, it's a better size and shape.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:00 PM
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Good lord: soaking lentils doesn't hurt but isn't necessary. Do it if you feel like it. People have food-related rituals. Whatever.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:00 PM
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The Bulgarian was interested in French politics.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:01 PM
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58, work s/b worth. So tired. Goodnight.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:02 PM
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I first read 16 as "cuy, lentils, etc..." and was impressed in a strange food snob sort of way.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:03 PM
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Eep! No. There's another thing you don't get at the Co-op.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:04 PM
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16's broth also had the hugest Nantes carrots I've ever seen in it. So so yummy.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:05 PM
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66: That doesn't stop you from raising them in a hutch or something. I bet you could do something with their fur, too.


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:15 PM
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I meant that comment as a joke, but the more I look at it the creepier it is. Sorry about that one.


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:31 PM
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68: Not creepy. Creepy would be, "68 to 28".


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:38 PM
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What went wrong in the thread with everyone commenting namelessly? I missed it entirely and now the comments are locked.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:54 PM
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What went wrong in the thread with everyone commenting namelessly?
Miscreants took "no name" commenting to mean "ogged's name" commenting. Ogged "can't stand impersonations", especially when they're as trenchant as this one, which is what pushed ogged over the edge.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 12:19 AM
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I used an ordinary stainless steel pot for cooking lentils if I am just boiling them.

If I am cooking them by some sort of absorption method* where I want the end result to be almost dry then I use a Tefal non-stick type. We have a crappy ceramic hob and the heat it produces is very uneven. If the base of the pan isn't completely flat and if you aren't regularly stirring [and not just wandering into the kitchen every 10 minutes] then it's pretty much certain that stuff will burn to the bottom of the pan. So non-stick is the only way to make that sort of thing.

* e.g. if you fry up a bit of celery, carrot, and leek. Add some bacon lardons, maybe a few pieces of leftover chicken. Add puy lentils, cover in stock. Cook until it's almost all absorbed. Stir through loads of chopped parsley and some creme fraiche. Yummy.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 12:24 AM
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You EU bastards get better groceries though. Your ag subsidies ensure you get decent bread, milk, etc... Our ag subsidies get us access to functionally unlimited amounts of high fructose corn syrup.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 12:31 AM
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I don't understand the reluctance to buy le Creuset. I remember the huge kick, when I first bought one in my early thirties, of thinking "Now I own something which will last longer than I will" . I know they're heavy, but everyone here works out so far as I can see. And an oval one large enough for a chicken is a thing of pure delight.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 1:05 AM
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re: 75

They don't work on my own cooker.* I've lived in flats that had some in the past, though, and quite liked 'em.

* proper woks don't, either.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 1:18 AM
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re: 74

Yeah, I hear that's true. I've never been to America so don't have anything to compare, though.

Certainly, if you are prepared to pay a bit more than average then really excellent quality produce can be had. I can also get really good game and fish at reasonable prices, which is nice.

It's ironic that the Scottish working class diet is so poor when Scotland produces amazing produce. A lot of it just tends to get bought up by posh restaurants in London and Paris.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 1:21 AM
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In a professional capacity?

They didn't seem like amateurs, if that's what you mean.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:23 AM
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Cast iron, dude. World's most yup-underrated cooking surface.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:02 AM
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Peoples, Le Creuset is beautiful, but it's not clear that it has any advantage over plain cast iron. (This is all IME, of course.) Counterintuitively, it's not easier to clean than seasoned cast iron. Nor does the enamel seem to add any other benefits.

ogged, I remember your asking how to season cast iron a while back. It's easy, and easy to re-season as needed.

I'm also a stainless steel fan and love my (union-made!) All-Clad.

You may already know this, but many of the expensive brands have cheaper lines, some of which are pretty good, some not. I'll e-mail you a Consumer Reports comparison.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:12 AM
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Pwned by Goneril while typing excrutiatingly slowly on my phone.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:14 AM
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It's ironic that the Scottish working class diet is so poor when Scotland produces amazing produce. A lot of it just tends to get bought up by posh restaurants in London and Paris.

Actually, it's a systematic global irony. The gold miner doesn't own gold jewelry.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:18 AM
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There's cheaper enameled cast-iron to be had. I picked up something like this at Target a couple of years ago and it's served me well. It might or might not last forever, but at less than half the cost of that cheaper Le Cruset, I'm not sure I care that much.

This makes me think of the "nice things" thread, where I realized that basically nothing I own is expensive, and "nice" things only show up when they are some kind of bargain. Fear the hedonic treadmill!


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:32 AM
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It's ironic that the Scottish working class diet is so poor when Scotland produces amazing produce.

I think the Scottish working-class diet would be vastly improved if "Do you want that heated up?" with reference to a slice of pizza didn't mean "Do you want that dunked in the same vat of grease where we cook the chips and fries and fritters?"


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:40 AM
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Late to this party, but my $0.02 worth: buy the Le Creuset already. Depending on the quantities you plan on making, you might go with a smaller size. The larger ones are most useful if you're going to be doing a lot of browning of meats and need the surface area.

Pace B. and Sir Kraab, there is a good reason to prefer enameled over cast iron for certain purposes: anything that contains significant quantities of acid (e.g. wine, tomatoes) will take on off-flavors from cast-iron cookwear. Because that describes a lot of what I cook, I tend to use the enamel Le Creuset more even though I have a plain cast iron dutch oven as well. (That said, there's no substitute for plain cast iron for getting a nice crust on meat and developing fond.)


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:46 AM
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FWIW, I also use the Le Creuset 7 quart dutch oven for the NYT no-knead bread recipe, and it works like a charm.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:48 AM
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re: 84

The deep-fried pizza is a bit of abomination, I must admit. But most of the places that do them also do proper pizza. It just depends what you ask for. A pizza-supper will normally get you the deep-fried stuff.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:51 AM
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I love my Le Crueset, but I use my Calphalon much much much more often. (I keep my eyes open for sales at Amazon, which can offer some shockingly low prices.) I'm especially fond of the "chef's skillets" and "chef's pans". Their anodized aluminum is non-reactive and provides a lovely cooking surface; it heats up pretty quickly but isn't flimsy; it isn't as heavy as Le Crueset, and the handles stay cooler.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:51 AM
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I love my Le Crueset, but I use my Calphalon much much much more often

I'm interested to hear that. I've never cooked with Calphalon, but I see it in stores all the time. My "everyday" cookwear is stainless steel from WMF, which has lovely thermal properties, but isn't exactly non-stick or easy-care. I'm sentimentally attached to the ones I have, but it might be worth trying a Calphalon just to see how it works.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:00 AM
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I specifically recommend the "infused anodized aluminum" pans; the others are eh. Generally, I find soap and water cleanup to be pretty breezy with these pans. I do find it difficult to keep the outsides of the pans and lids from getting somewhat stained, but I also don't really care.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:09 AM
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it might be worth trying a Calphalon just to see how it works

I have several Calphalon pans. They do a good job. The only problem I have had is I managed to take the anodized coating off of one of them in a couple spots by baking lemons in it. The regular anodized isn't really non stick. They have the Calphalon One line that is supposed to be semi-nonstick, but I haven't tried that. They also have a stainless steel line of which I have one frying pan that seems to be nice and a little cheaper then All-Clad.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:12 AM
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We have a few Zepter pans, from Germany. They are pretty nice.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:13 AM
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Well seasoned cast-iron is remarkably non-stick. Never having cooked lentils, however, I don't know if that's something where a dark pan would be a problem.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:24 AM
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Goodness, they're lentils. Buying nice cookware is a fun indulgence, but it's not for the sake of the lentils.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:41 AM
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Well seasoned cast-iron is remarkably non-stick.

True, but cooking lentils or beans in it is inimical to maintaining the seasoning. Slow, wet, low-temperature cooking is analogous to soaking your cast iron in the kitchen sink.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:57 AM
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Sir Kraab can attest to my deep and abiding love of cast iron cookware (and Austin has a very good thrift store scene, so it's easy and pretty cheap to build up quite a collection, even if you only focus on better brands), but what Knecht said in 85 is definitely true.

I don't know if your lentil recipe has tomatoes in it, ogged (is it that one posted here lo those many years ago?), but if so it's better to go with something other than cast iron. I'm not crazy about stainless steel, it seems to heat unevenly, and would either go with plain steel or enameled iron (if money not much of an issue I'd definitely go with the latter).

Also, I generally view heavy weight in cookware as a feature. More even heating, and keeps those wrists strong!

As for the soaking issue, I soak lentils if I think of it beforehand, but it's because it tends to result in less loose lentil skins flying around all free and rootless. Obviously this doesn't apply to those red/orange ones since they've been de-hulled. But for other lentils (and dried beans too), the "body" of the lentil absorbs water and expands more slowly than the skin. So if you just chuck them into water and set to boil, the skin expands before the lentil can "grow into" it and is more likely to slough off during stirring. The slower the transition from dry to swelled-with-water, the less this happens.

This isn't a huge problem or anything, really more a personal preference, but like I said, if I think of it, I'll soak them overnight or a few hours hours at least. It also seems to make more difference with older dried lentils or beans than with fresher ones. It can make a dramatic difference with black-eyed peas, which tend to lose their skins easily.

Also, if I have time, after the soaking I'll set the pot on the lowest possible heat and raise the lentils or beans to boiling temp as slowly as possible, for the same reason. I'm not positive but I also seem to end up with less broken beans this way as well, which again is not a huge deal, but in particular bean salads look much better with nice plump whole beans or lentils than with a bunch of battle-scarred bits and halfsies.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:30 AM
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Also, what anmik says in 39 is interesting, and seems to accord with my feeling of not liking stainless steel much for my home cooking.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:32 AM
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Seriously, ogged, if you are looking for decent cookware that isn't expensive, check and see if there is a restaurant supply place nearby. I've got a perfectly reasonable, heavy bottomed 7 piece stainless set that cost me about $75 complete, and I use for all sorts of stuff. People spend ten times that for worse pots (but prettier) in yuppie kitchen shops.

Cast will do what you want, but you'll pull the seasoning out every time you do this. Le Creuset is nice, but not needed for this. Stainless is fine and works well on electric. Make sure you have heavy bottoms, except for a stock pot.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:32 AM
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97/39: This really only applies to fry pans. Stainless seasons too, and sticks like hell if you don't have enough oil. You should treat a stainless fry pan like a cast iron (keep soap away).

However, it really isn't going to give you trouble with pots.

If you do mess up a stainless fry pain, simmer a tablespoon or two of diswasher powder in it, stirring for 10 min or so. Should clean it up nice. Then season it.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:35 AM
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True, but cooking lentils or beans in it is inimical to maintaining the seasoning. Slow, wet, low-temperature cooking is analogous to soaking your cast iron in the kitchen sink.

But then you get to re-season it! Of course, most people don't have the pet-like relationship I have with my cast iron stuff, and don't enjoy all the pampering rituals.

And what soup said in 98 is very true.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:35 AM
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<Ogged's Mom>If you got married, you could register for all of the kitchen equipment you wanted!</Ogged's Mom>


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:38 AM
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99: Good to know. SK has some stainless stuff that I don't use much for frying in (it seems fine for liquids), so maybe I'll try seasoning it and see if that improves my opinion of it.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:39 AM
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And soup, you coming to Austin for brunch on the 11th?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:39 AM
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Google's giving me disparate results on how to season cast iron. Anything from vegeteble oil, to lard, to bacon grease. Obviously, you louts will pick bacon grease, but what do normal people use?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:39 AM
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I do find that, for example, canola oil can leave the finish kind of tacky/sticky. I usually use (non-extra-virgin just plain) olive oil, with excellent results. But it's probably true that lard or bacon grease are the best.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:45 AM
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Ooh, another culinary inquiry (for the British contingent): is HP Sauce sort of like A1?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:50 AM
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Does everyone here avoid no stick pans?

I would recommend buying inexpensive pans from a restaurant supply place and spending the money you save on good wine.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:50 AM
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The transfat Nazis will object to this, but have you tried Crisco? The requirements for a seasoning oil are that it can withstand high heat (rules out olive oil), that it not go rancid (rules out many vegetable oils), and that it not impart a funny taste (rules out bacon grease and arguably lard).

Crisco is extremely stable, heat-tolerant, and taste neutral. And it's not like you're going to be eating the stuff.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:51 AM
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108 => 104


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:52 AM
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Thanks for all the advice, folks. Slow, wet, tomatofull cooking is exactly what it will be used for (not just the lentils, but Iranian stews are like that), so I guess, to my shock and horror, that the Le Creuset is the way to go.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:55 AM
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that it not impart a funny taste (rules out bacon grease

Sorry, I think there's a typo in there somewhere. I can't comprehend what you're trying to say.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:57 AM
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Olive oil is actually excellent at withstanding high heat. Lard is at least as tasteless as Crisco. And the amount of fat in the season of a cast iron pan is small enough, and there's so little transfer, that unless your trying to produce the world's most subtle consommé or something, I don't think bacon grease would make any difference flavor-wise.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:58 AM
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I avoid non-stick pans.

Because they suck.

But opinion is divided on this matter.

See, for example, Ttam in this thread, and there have been several old thread where this was discussed.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:00 AM
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111: Yeah, it's clown fat that tastes funny. Pig fat just tastes pigilicious!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:01 AM
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Olive oil is actually excellent at withstanding high heat.

Depends on the olive oil. There are better choices for heat resistance.

Lard is at least as tasteless as Crisco.

That's just crazy talk. Unless you mean leaf lard, and that's not easy to find.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:02 AM
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I use nonstick for everyday stuff. I have Calphalon, the fry pan fell apart but the chef's pan and the saucepan are simple to use and clean.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:05 AM
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unless you're trying to produce the world's most subtle consommé or something, I don't think bacon grease would make any difference flavor-wise.

I use my large cast iron skillet for making the world's most awesomest tarte tatin, and my small one for making the caramel for the world's most awesomest rice pudding, so this is one of the rare cases where the addition of bacon flavor does not improve the final product.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:07 AM
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But seriously, olive oil works just fine for seasoning cast iron. Who ya gonna trust, me or that lying wikipedia?

I'm thinking that the smoke point is higher than the temperature needed to bond the fat to the iron to create the seasoning. And for higher temperature cooking, one adds fat to the pan anyway.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:08 AM
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117: Pigs and apples, two great tastes that taste great together, Knecht.

I honestly don't think it would make a difference, due to the quantities of bacon grease involved, but if it did I would think it would make a difference in a good way.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:10 AM
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Jeez. You snobs are probably going to tell me that microwaving your meals isn't the best way to cook.

So much for me bringing my nearly famous microwaved mushroom soup pasta dish to DC Unfogged. I will also leave the spam home that I was going to bring so we could make spam, egg and blue cheese sandwiches at 3 am.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:12 AM
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I'm thinking that the smoke point is higher than the temperature needed to bond the fat to the iron to create the seasoning.

What method do you use to season the pan? I rub the fat on the inside of the pan, then bake it upside down in a 450 degree oven. I would be reluctant to subject olive oil to this treatment.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:13 AM
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Pigs and apples, two great tastes that taste great together

It *is* hard to argue with that.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:15 AM
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I love my Le Creuset for any kind of braising or stewing application, or anything where I want the thermal properties of cast iron without the pain-in-the-ass cleaning problem.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:16 AM
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The transfat Nazis will object to this, but have you tried Crisco

I use Crisco to season my cast iron.

Also for those who don't like stainless steel are you using pure stainless steel or the stuff with an aluminum core? Stainless steel is not a very good heat conductor. That is why the more expensive stuff is stainless steel bonded around an aluminum core which has very good heat conduction properties.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:17 AM
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My younger sister just moved cross-country and decided she never again wanted to haul around all the kitchen booty she got for her wedding. We are a decidedly non-yuppie midwestern folk, so this means I have just inherited a set of Farberware pots and pans rather than anything they might sell at Williams-Sonoma. Still, it's a step up from my no-name garage sale stuff.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:22 AM
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125:

blume cheated.


Posted by: moi | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:24 AM
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Someone make a sexual reference please.


Posted by: mac | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:26 AM
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A few weeks ago, we saw the Le Creuset 8 qt. Oval Casserole at a reasonable price at Costco. [My wife teases me because I often pronounce the name of the store inadvertently as the name of a well-known blogger, and vice-versa] Came back the next day to buy, because she really wanted it. The meals have been outstanding, even though we've had a Calphalon dutch oven in 5 qt for many years. We registered for some Calphalon for our wedding, and our oldest pieces, like a saucepan now almost completely uncoated on the inside, are from that time twenty-three years ago. Crueset cleans fine, the advantage is the pleasure in its look and feel and the size, now that we've got four big appetites.

Made by Commercial, in Toledo. Hi Becks!


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:26 AM
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I love my Creuset pieces. I have 2 - a doufeu and a small French oven. Both are marvelous pieces of cookware. I've not found them too difficult to clean; everything comes right off after a soak, as needed.


Posted by: KJ | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:34 AM
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103: I'd like to, but I'm under a grant deadline and things are in bad shape.... If everything goes well next couple of days, I'll email you ok?


124: is a good point, which I forgot to mention. THe good stainless stuff will have a thick core of something else (doesn't matter for stock/pasta pot, as water does just the trick), aluminum typically (copper is more expenesive than the gain)

Olive oils low smoke point can be a problem. Canola is great for higher heat.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:48 AM
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I don't know what A1 sauce is; HP is brownish, thick, vinegary, and spicy. Definitely more vinegar than chili, is that helps to locate it.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 9:04 AM
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131: I think they're probably similar. A1 is like a thick worcestershire but more, uh, savory. Or something.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 9:08 AM
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Christ, ogged, of course the Creuset is what you need for your khoreshes. You didn't mention those the first go-round.


Posted by: Peevish | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 9:44 AM
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What method do you use to season the pan? I rub the fat on the inside of the pan, then bake it upside down in a 450 degree oven. I would be reluctant to subject olive oil to this treatment.

I usually only use the oven method when I first get one and have thoroughly scoured old built-up residue and rust (because I bought it at the thrift store or a garage sale) from. But I only bake it at about 375, not 450.

After that, unless for some reason it needs to be redone (e.g. your s.o. use your dutch oven to cook spaghetti in and then leaves it sitting full of water on the stove), I just re-season it on the stovetop: after rinsing it out (avoiding soap) I put it on medium high heat till any water has evaporated and then add a little oil and let it heat and swirl to coat the pan just until it looks like it's about to start smoking. Then I turn off the heat and use a wad of paper towels to smear the oil all around (and on the bottom and sides if needed) and soak up the excess then leave it to cool down, at which point I give it one more swipe with the paper towels to wipe up any residual oil. Works like a charm.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 9:57 AM
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Also, I was going to mention earlier that one thing I don't like about more recent models of Le Creuset is the non-oven-proof knobs on the top of the lids. This can have unfortunate results. I don't own any Le Creuset, all my enameled cast-iron I've picked up second-hand, and it's all decades old. I've got an awesome yellow enamel oval dutch oven made by Cousance, and several Copco pieces too, and all the handles are made of the same material as the rest of the pot/lid.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:04 AM
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Oh and Sir Kraab has this great small skillet by Cousance where the interior and bottom are naked cast iron but the sides and handle are a lovely brown enamel. I'm not sure if there's any real purpose for such a design, but it sure is beautiful.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:06 AM
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Also, I was going to mention earlier that one thing I don't like about more recent models of Le Creuset is the non-oven-proof knobs on the top of the lids

I noticed that but I assume they're replaceable, and screw off for high heat concerns, although I doubt we'll use ours that hot.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:06 AM
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Love the Judith Miller ref in the link; there's someone who's fallen through a trap door.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:09 AM
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137: I just like to be able to chuck stuff in the oven if desired and not worry about part of the pot melting.

Also, I like hot pads and oven mitts, and it'd be a shame if there weren't any excuses to use them.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:09 AM
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Oh and I just noticed that that thread contains one of the later non-stick discussions.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:16 AM
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NYT tests various alternatives to non-stick.

Also, this is the next thing I want. Ceramic, can go from refrig/freezer to oven/stove; dishwasher-safe; lighter and cheaper than Le Creu, and pretty!

your s.o. use your dutch oven to cook spaghetti in and then leaves it sitting full of water on the stove

Hmph. Now I don't feel bad for not giving M/M/ props in my earlier comment for expanding my knowledge of cast iron.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:19 AM
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Ceramic, can go from refrig/freezer to oven/stove; dishwasher-safe; lighter and cheaper than Le Creu, and pretty!

Wait, that looks cool. Why wouldn't I get that instead?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:25 AM
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You should get that instead. I forgot to mention it earlier.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:29 AM
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142: Low heat conductivity means hot spots means scorching means hard to clean. This is guessing, but I wouldn't buy ceramic if its primary purpose were stovetop cooking.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:30 AM
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Wait, that looks cool. Why wouldn't I get that instead?

I concur, has anyone used one of these before. I am tempted to get one if they really do work well.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:30 AM
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the thermal properties of cast iron without the pain-in-the-ass cleaning problem

I used to think this, which is why I might have, say, in the past, left a tiny little bit of water in a pot with very stuck-on stuff. But it turns out you can use scratchy stuff (steel wool & etc.) on it that cleans just fine, which I didn't think you could.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:31 AM
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Wait, that looks cool. Why wouldn't I get that instead?

It does look cool. But newfangled! But cool. So conflicted!


Posted by: Peevish | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:33 AM
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I wouldn't buy ceramic if its primary purpose were stovetop cooking

Controversy! Kraab?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:33 AM
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I think M/M/ will need to get involved here, because I don't know so much about conductivity & etc. I did read a good review of it, but I can't remember where. I'm looking.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:36 AM
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I'd bet 144 is probably right. I haven't cooked with the pot in question, but my experiences with, for example, pyrex, are that it's crap for stovetop cooking because the uneven heat conduction makes everything stick to the bottom, even when you're cooking something like soup. That is, in order to bring the contents to a boil, the bottom of the container gets so hot that the chunky contents of the soup, stew stick to it.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:39 AM
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But then maybe that wily Emile Henry has solved that conundrum.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:40 AM
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Huh, ok.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:40 AM
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Has anyone ever actually cooked with good quality ceramics? (Per the manufacturer, they've done something newfangled in making it.) Otherwise, I'm tuning out the ceramic haters pending more info.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:42 AM
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will, please note: The ceramic pot is microwave safe, so you could have a pot that suggests you actually cook things without having to.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:47 AM
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You go first, SK, and tell us how it works. I'm a Le Crueset and AllClad guy myself. FWIW, I've recently converted to cooking indoor steaks in my wife's LC frying pan over the All-Clad pan I've been using because the thermal mass of the LC really lets you get a good sear--AllClad drops in temperature too quickly when you drop a room temperature ribeye in to get a quick, thorough sear. The AC is great for most other day-to-day cooking tasks that require fine temperature control.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:48 AM
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I want a t-shirt that says "I &heart; Thermal Mass'.

Or even better maybe, an apron.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:50 AM
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Hmmm, that didn't work. How does one make that heart/love symbol again?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:51 AM
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will, please note: The ceramic pot is microwave safe, so you could have a pot that suggests you actually cook things without having to.

Thanks Sir K. It would still look like I actually cooked something, right?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:55 AM
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It should be "&hearts;", I think they're thinking of card suits.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:57 AM
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I use my large cast iron skillet for making the world's most awesomest tarte tatin, and my small one for making the caramel for the world's most awesomest rice pudding

Ok K.R., time to pony up with the recipies. I haven't found a good rice pudding since the local Portuguese restaurant went out of business, and I can't replicate theirs.

HP is preferred to A1 around here. Our diner carries both, and people sneak around the tables to get other people's HP sauce.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:58 AM
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160: It just so happens that I have written down the tarte tatin recipe in an MS Word document for a friend once, so if you e-mail me at knecht_ruprecht (then comes the at symbol then) yahoo.com I will send it to you.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:04 AM
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I'm allowed to be me in this thread, yes?

I have Emil Henry ramekins from back when I used to throw elaborate dinner parties and make things like individual souflées. They're a lovely cobalt blue and as pretty as the day I bought them (in the Michigan Ave. Crate and Barrel).

I too, would love a rice pudding recipe (especially one with caramel! I love making caramel; it's like napalm)! I yield to no one, however, w/r/t my tarte tatin.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:05 AM
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I have Emile Henry ramekins, pie plate, and butter dish. They're quite lovely. The ramekins are perfect for a recipe for individual chocolate cakes served hot and somewhat melty. I'll post the recipe if anyone's interested.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:09 AM
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I yield to no one, however, w/r/t my tarte tatin.

Which technique do you use? Do you caramelize the apples with sugar on the stovetop, carefully flipping them over individually, like the Joy of Cooking recommends?

In the recipe I use, you make a huge pan of caramel in the skillet, then cool it slightly, put the apple slices on top of the caramel, bake them for 35 minutes without the crust, then pull out the hot pan, carefully put the crust on top, and bake for another 35 minutes.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:10 AM
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We have a Römertopf we haven't used in a long time, which overlaps dutch ovens to some extent.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:12 AM
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The ramekins are perfect for a recipe for individual chocolate cakes served hot and somewhat melty.

Oh yes! There is perhaps no other dessert where the gap is so large between how hard people imagine it is to make and how easy it actually is to make.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:12 AM
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164 -- Yep, pretty much. I make a giant skillet of caramel and then add the apples. I turn them as carefully as I can manage in order to keep the slices whole so that they can be arranged prettily. Then I take the apples out of the caramel (reserved for a caramel sauce to which I add a little red-wine reduction), and arrange them in little inidividual tart pans (which have my pate brisée crust in them, slightly pre-baked). Bake and serve with vanilla ice cream and the reserved caramel sauce. Kind of a pain in the ass, but they do rule.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:26 AM
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I have Emile Henry ramekins, pie plate, and butter dish.

Actually, your ramekins and butter dish are Le Creuset. Your pie plate is Emile Henry, as is that lovely big deep blue soufflé-type dish.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:37 AM
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I love tapioca pudding (especially the tapioca pudding I make myself) and never ever get to make it, because who is going to eat all that fish-eye pudding? Only me.


Posted by: kwrl | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:39 AM
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I like rice pudding, but not as much as tapioca, I should have said by way of transition.


Posted by: kwrl | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:39 AM
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Actually, your ramekins and butter dish are Le Creuset. Your pie plate is Emile Henry, as is that lovely big deep blue soufflé-type dish.

Does that qualify as a Marshall McLuhan moment? Or was that more Archie & Edith?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:40 AM
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who is going to eat all that fish-eye pudding? Only me.

You better keep that shit locked up and hidden, because I love me some tapioca pudding, too.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:41 AM
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171: I was going more for Nick & Nora.

Time for a martini!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:42 AM
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163 & 168 -- Aw . . . .


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:43 AM
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Oh yeah -- another pro-tapioca vote.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:44 AM
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172: Me too.

Or should that be "I too"?

Honey?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:44 AM
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I was going more for Nick & Nora

The underwear thread was yesterday.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:45 AM
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See, Sir Kraab and I have come to an understanding. I get to be incredibly pedantic and annoying about cooking and cookware, and she gets to be the grammar scold. Works out fine.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:47 AM
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I'm calling the oval Emile Henry dish I have a casserole, about 14" by 9", but it may have other names. Love that blue.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:48 AM
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Also, while I was in the kitchen researching comment 168, I realized that my kickass yellow oval dutch oven is Descoware, not Cousance. I ♥ Descoware I does.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:51 AM
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For rice pudding:

http://chocolateandzucchini.com/archives/2004/05/raspberry_rice_pudding.php

I am making some now. I plan on adding golden raisins, sucre de canne, cinnamon, and vanilla.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:54 AM
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135: bah to anything without oven-proof knobs


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:57 AM
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182: Indeed.

Well, maybe not stereos and dressers and the like, but cookware? Definitely.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 12:01 PM
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182: that's why you wear a condom.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 12:04 PM
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184: Or, failing that, an oven mitt.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 12:06 PM
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I just unscrewed the top lid knob of my Le Creuset and am holding it in hand (think of at least 2 guys a thousand miles apart going back and forth from kitchen to computer for these inane comments) Seems like an upgrade should be readily available.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 12:06 PM
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186: I get a bit uncomfortable when you talk all dirty like that, IDP.

No offense, it's just that I don't think of you in that way.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 12:11 PM
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See, Sir Kraab and I have come to an understanding. I get to be incredibly pedantic and annoying about do the cooking, and she gets to be the grammar scold lie on the couch reading. Works out fine.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 1:26 PM
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Yay tapioca! Especially with papaya and a little coconut milk in it.


Posted by: sven | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:15 PM
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An exhaustive(ing)ly detailed side-by-side experiment cooking cassoulet in Le Creuset & Emile Henry.

I did follow through with my idea to do a side by side comparison of Le Cresuet and EH -- I made a sort of cassoulet, which started out on the stove top and ended in the oven.
As I mentioned in my blog, I did find the clay EH to be superior to the le Creuset for retaining liquid, which was great for the cassoulet. I think I'll continue to experiment with it. And it'll definitely be my bean pot from now on.

On clean-up:

Anyway, this time the Emile was much easier to clean -- there was a ring of cooked on food around the pot, but it came right off.

Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:58 PM
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Thanks, Kraab!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:04 PM
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