Re: Germs, schmerms.

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Aauugggghhhh!!! Feces in your laundry and snot on the ATMs!

The snot! It's got me in its grips RIGHT NOW!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:41 AM
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Which is to say that this article is relevant only for the immuno-suppressed.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:42 AM
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Your post title says it all. Given that we all come into contact with these germs regularly and aren't much the worse for wear, the real lesson is that germs just aren't that big a deal.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:42 AM
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more than 500,000 bacteria per square inch in the drain
And what's the density inside the typical human mouth? I suspect higher.
In high school we did an experiment culturing swabs from various places, the locker room growth was impressive.
Anyway, microwave your sponges if you really care, faster than dishwaher but slight chance of bursting into flames if you overdo it.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:45 AM
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what's the density inside the typical human mouth?

Before or after licking the kitchen sink clean?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:47 AM
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No solid waste receptacles? I'm almost offended.


Posted by: froz gobo | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:48 AM
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They neglected to include: this location.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:49 AM
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That's a work of terrorism.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:51 AM
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there's about a gram of feces--a quarter the size of a small peanut--in every pair of dirty underwear

Exfuckingscuse me? Speak for yourself, pal.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:51 AM
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While I generally agree with the sentiment expressed in 1-3, antibiotic-resistant staph infections are a big deal.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:51 AM
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Just one soiled undergarment can spread bacteria to the whole load and the machine.

I have two kids in diapers. I'm reasonably sure my entire wardrobe is covered in a thin layer of shit. Now who wants to sex Apostropher?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:51 AM
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Next: The ten germiest internal organs inside your body, and how to scrub them clean.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:51 AM
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" in a plaque-free mouth, 1,000 to 100,000 bacteria live on each tooth surface, but when plaque is present, as many as 100 million to one billion bacteria may be growing on each tooth."
Mmmm, biofilms. A tooth surface is somewhat less than a square inch, so the typical tooth (a little plaque build-up) probably has a density about equal to the shocker numbers reported for the sink and water fountain. The 1200 per key for the ATM is almost nothing.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:53 AM
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Speak for yourself, pal.

Every morning, I use triple beam scales to measure out individual grams of feces, which I stealthily drop into my coworkers' underwear.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:53 AM
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the shocker numbers

The Shocker spreads germs quite effectively.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:54 AM
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10- 3 should say, "the real lesson is that most germs just aren't that big a deal."


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:55 AM
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No solid waste receptacles?

Yeah, so can I marinate my pork ribs in the toilet or not? Huh?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:55 AM
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That's why Darwin invented immune systems.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:56 AM
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The advice in the washing machine part is just insane. It's clean laundry, people. It doesn't smell. That's all I care about.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:57 AM
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17: Just not in an airplane toilet. Homeland Security won't let you bring barbecue sauce on the plane anyhow.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:57 AM
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Solid waste receptacles = garbage cans and recycling bins.


Posted by: froz gobo | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:58 AM
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there's about a gram of feces--a quarter the size of a small peanut--in every pair of dirty underwear

And I was about to do some laundry in the communal machines, too. Bullshit or not, this is going to make me cringe for a while.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:58 AM
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to do some laundry in the communal machines, too. Bullshit or not, this is going to make me cringe for a while.

Probably just people-shit.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:59 AM
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11: don't even get me started. We cloth diaper, which for those who don't know not only means washing shitty diapers around in the washing machine (without bleach!), but also spraying the larger shits into the toilet, which coats our bathroom floor and walls in a not-terribly-thin layer of shit a few times a day. I'm pretty sure those few daily shots of Everclear are the only thing keeping me alive.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:59 AM
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NOBODY TOUCH BLUME. SHE'S FILTHY.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:59 AM
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Why without bleach? I'd think bleach would be, you know, key.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:01 PM
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15 gets it right. Also, what does "germs" mean? Pathogenic germs? And they aren't really infectious germs unless they are in a context that leads them to get into the body through the pathway that leads them to cause disease. Inhale all the cholera bacteria you want in aerosol form, rub it all over your hands, and you won't get diarrhea because it isn't in the GI tract.

Wash your hands, that's all you need to do.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:02 PM
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But I smell lovely, like Febreeze!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:02 PM
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I'm puzzled at number 10, bathtubs. Wouldn't bathtub germs be yours, or belong to people you live with and therefore are exchanging germs with all the time anyway?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:02 PM
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26: hmm... maybe we do use bleach. I was pretty sure we didn't because it was hard on the diapers, or something like that. I guess I'll admit that I don't really know--I don't do women's work.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:03 PM
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This moronic focus on antibactieral products in the home is probably a sign of the end times.

The antibiotic resistant staph infections, etc., are a big deal. But it's a different problem, and mostly self inflicted (i don't mean at an individual level).


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:03 PM
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I've heard of people drinking high-density- 10^10 cfu/mL- E. coli cultures (non-pathogenic, non-drug resistant, of course) for dares and such, nothing much happens.
However, this is not recommended scientific method:

The point was finally proven by the young Australian doctor who made the initial discovery: he drank a flask of a pure culture of H. pylori and developed a typical ulcer.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:05 PM
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"a quarter the size of a small peanut"?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:05 PM
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We avoid antibacterial products and try to expose the kids to as much dirt and as many germs as possible.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:05 PM
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33: People make such useful, natural, comparisons. For example, in reference to pregnancy books:

Another week, another update. And this week's one is a doozy.

As of today, the spawn is about 5 to 5 1/2 inches long from crown to rump and weighs a little more than 5 ounces, about the size of...a lobster tail?

Great Expectations, you're killing me here. A lobster tail? Really? I mean, I know I have said of lobster tails, in the past, "Gee, that looks delicious; I wish I had it in my belly," but this is not what I had in mind. You could have done much better with this week's comparison. Much better. Because you know what is also about the same size as a lobster tail?

You're damned right. A soft, fuzzy, cuddly llama's ear. Which is what I would much prefer to imagine I am harboring inside of me, rather than a crusty, pokey, sharp-edged, lobster tail.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:08 PM
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Some kids break out in rashes from bleached diapers, I've heard.

30: trolling? not for real, right?


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:08 PM
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27- The numbers cited probably refer to cfu (colony forming units)- how many bacterial colonies you get at various dilutions.
31- The reporting I've seen on antibacterial products conflates different issues. There's the argument that it's healthier to be exposed to some bacteria to help build immunity, using antibacterials prevents natural exposure. The other argument is that using antibacterials selects for antibacterial-resistant bugs, which doesn't make sense because triclosan (most common active ingredient) isn't a drug you take internally so resistance to it just means you're back to normal soap effects. The report I've seen that I think explains the real problem is that using triclosan activates resistance-acquisition pathways than lead not only to triclosan resistance but also antibiotics, which is a bad thing.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:09 PM
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34: Good on you. I hope they they play messily with everyone elses kids, too.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:10 PM
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34: I totally agree.

"a quarter the size of a small peanut"

This belongs in the "how much do drugs cost" thread back there. Also, do not believe this.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:11 PM
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I hope they they play messily with everyone elses kids, too.

My daughter is really bad (or good) about sticking her hand down her pants and then walking around touching people, places, and things.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:12 PM
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37: I've often seen this conflation too. However, I've never seen a good argument for most antibacterial products for the home.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:12 PM
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OT: is there any good dirt on Lott's resignation? The Times basically implies that it is just to get his lobbying business of the ground sooner.

Where are the 6'2" black shemales Wonkette promised me?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:16 PM
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The ten germiest internal organs inside your body

It's the external organs inside my body that worry me more. No telling where Labs had that thing last.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:16 PM
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is there any good dirt on Lott's resignation? The Times basically implies that it is just to get his lobbying business of the ground sooner.

Suspiciously, Lott has not yet denied having a tawdry hook up with two underage male pages in the Senate.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:18 PM
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42- Maybe related?. Probably just typical greed, though.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:20 PM
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Oh yes, clean everything with an antibacterial cleaner! Because what the world needs is more antibiotic-resistant germs. And use toilet seat covers, because it's icky to think of germs on your buttock skin, doing no harm, and who cares about trees, anyway? Use bleach to poison the environment, and your dryer at high heat to waste electricity because ewwww! Germs!

I hate this kind of shit with a passion. As soon as I get up from this germ-laden toilet, I'm going to go hang out my germy laundry on the line and fix myself some lunch in my filthy kitchen.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:21 PM
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This article is just totally innumerate. We are told to fear surfaces containing "germs" in densities between 1,200 per square inch and 2.7 million per square inch, and also to put our faith in the saving power of agents which kill 99.9% of "germs." Come on!


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:24 PM
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I do sometimes worry about high-traffic toilets. Hep-C is a very unpleasant disease.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:25 PM
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And you know what else? Lack of sufficient exposure to dirt and germs is thought to contribute to the increased prevalence of allergies/asthma. I remind my mother of this every time she expreesses an opinion about my housekeeping skills.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:25 PM
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36: well, I really don't ever use the washing machine, but it's not that I don't want to so much as that Mrs. Landers decided a few years ago that I was entirely unqualified to launder her clothes (for no apparant reason, since to my knowledge I've never really messed anything up). Although I'll probably start trying to pitch in more again on that front soon enough since my wife just found out she has another damn parasite growing in her stomach.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:26 PM
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47: Don't think. Fear.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:26 PM
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As soon as I get up from this germ-laden toilet

B is contaminating this entire thread.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:27 PM
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another damn parasite

Congratulations! Or if I miss my guess, is it the same species as your tapeworm?

48: Wash your hands.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:27 PM
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54

Also, they think you should wash your underwear in a separate load? I don't even do that with diapers!


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:28 PM
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46 see 37 on antibiotic resisting germs.

Everyone here seems to be aware that the only place antibiotic resistant staph and strep have developed are in hospitals, and that this comes from mistakes that people in hospitals should know better than to make.

I also assume that the problem that we see in hospitals arises from incomplete or erratic use of sterilizing procedures. You use the product, but you don't use enough of it, so that survivors are left to found the new antibiotic resistant strain.

If the home situation were parallel to the hospital, the real lesson might be that you should either go crazy with the antibiotic soap or don't use it at all.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:28 PM
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densities between 1,200 per square inch and 2.7 million per square inch, and also to put our faith in the saving power of agents which kill 99.9% of "germs."
So if you use higher heat in your washer you'll get the germ density on your clothes down to that of your typical Chinese ATM. Sounds good to me.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:28 PM
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another damn parasite growing in her stomach

Hey, congratulations Brock!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:28 PM
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54: wait--you wash dirty diapers in with your clothes? I'm suddenly feeling comparatively better about my situation.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:29 PM
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has another damn parasite growing in her stomach.

Are you sure this isn't psychophysiologic sympathy for your parasite(s)?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:30 PM
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Hey, congratulations!


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:30 PM
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We didn't mix dirty diapers and clothes with our first child, but it started to happen more often with the second.

Now we don't have to wash diapers at all! Everyone in the house is potty trained!


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:30 PM
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... and if you are sure, congratulations!


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:30 PM
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55-and wrestling mats.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:30 PM
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Thanks everyone.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:31 PM
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Here's a quote from a Lott article with the right emphasis.

Apparently if Senators resign before the end of 2007, they are permitted to become less ethical lobbyists than Senators who resign after the beginning of 2008.

Maybe the Democrats will pick up 35 Senate seats next year.


Posted by: Cryptic Ne | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:31 PM
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58: Well, you can either start off with a thin layer of shit on your clothes, or just wait until you put them on and accumulate it via your kid. Don't see it making much difference.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:31 PM
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63 was supposed to quote this from 55:

that the only place antibiotic resistant staph and strep have developed are in hospitals


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:32 PM
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The real question is how many of those ten places have you been in, IYKWIMAITYD.


Posted by: It's patentable and it's sharp! (6) | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:33 PM
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All the diapers get a pre-wash, but yeah. Another thing about that article, I'm almost certain that hanging clothes in the sun to dry will kill more germs than putting them in the dryer will.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:33 PM
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55- The new problem is CA-MRSA- people who never go to a hospital are getting it, although probably from people who did get it from a hospital.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:33 PM
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29: You mean your neighborhood hasn't started conserving water with communal showers?


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:33 PM
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Congratulations, Brock!

(I know that given the pace of the mineshaft, this is late, sorry.)


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:34 PM
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70: Not all communal showers are for conservation purposes, McManly.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:35 PM
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Also, dear god, don't use bleach on cloth diapers. Put some vinegar in the rinse is what we did (I don't remember why, though, exactly). Soap and hot water kills the germs *just fine*, and who gives a shit if your diapers are stained?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:37 PM
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who gives a shit if your diapers are stained?

When I bring a baby to the opera I try my best to look professional.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:39 PM
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Congrats, Brock.

Solid waste receptacles = garbage cans and recycling bins.

Well, those are for eating from directly, so presumably they're fine.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:40 PM
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Thanks rob. I'm really banking on the fact that LB said that having two kids is "much easier" than just having one. Because so far one is wearing me the fuck out.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:42 PM
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70: Is that what explains the cockswater bill getting bigger all of a sudden?

75: One doesn't wash cummerbunds, Ned, even baby ones.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:42 PM
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You know, if you aren't careful, this place can be a bit of a time sink.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:42 PM
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Also, congrats to Brock and his smizmar, of course.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:43 PM
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79: A time sink teeming with chrono-germs, parasitically devouring seconds of my life. Each one can only consume a few seconds in its lifespan, but they add up.

I wash my hands of this place until tomorrow.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:44 PM
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Soap and hot water kills the germs *just fine*

Did you even read the article, B?

LB said that having two kids is "much easier" than just having one

Well, I hate to go all Debby Downer on your wack ass, but having a two-year-old and a baby at the same time has been the most exhausting experience of my life.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:45 PM
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79. Sure. But as sinks go, it's relatively germ-free.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:45 PM
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55: Yeah, I know; I was skipping the intermediary step. Still.

Also I still maintain that anyone who doesn't put up a clothes line in decent weather hates the earth.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:46 PM
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Hippy.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:47 PM
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Bad news, Brock, the second baby is much more work for the first two years at least. I would say that two children where one is under the age of two and the other under the age of five is about three times as much work as one child.

The work only starts to taper off once the kids learn to play nicely with each other on their own. This does happen, occasionally. I'd say I see it about once a week with my kids.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:47 PM
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77: Dude, you were relying on parenting advice from me? Heh. This should be fun.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:48 PM
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I'm really banking on the fact that LB said that having two kids is "much easier" than just having one. Because so far one is wearing me the fuck out.

Congrats Brock.

LB was either being sarcastic or she is crazy. Two kids is four times as hard as one.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:48 PM
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I second 82. Now 1 and 3, and last night the supposedly potty-trained 3-year-old decided he didn't like the baby waking up crying when they're sharing a room so he peed in his bed intentionally (we think- he told us two different stories about whether it was intentional or not) and I hurt my back changing the sheets at 4am.
But congrats, Brock!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:49 PM
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We've started putting our clothes on the line inside in the basement. We have to run a de-humidifier down there 24-7 to prevent water damage anyway, so why not dry the clothes, too.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:49 PM
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The work only starts to taper off once the kids learn to play nicely with each other on their own. This does happen, occasionally. I'd say I see it about once a week with my kids.

And Rob's kids are in college now.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:49 PM
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anyone who doesn't put up a clothes line in decent weather hates the earth.

Only the top of it. I dry my clothes deep in the earth's mantle.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:49 PM
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Thanks again rob. For posterity I'll note that I was deliberately and badly mischaracterizing LB's comment in an apparently failed comic effort.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:51 PM
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85: Screw that, nothing out of a bottle will ever make clothes smell & feel as good as hanging them in the sun.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:52 PM
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But seriously, what I meant is that the non-mobile baby stage is much easier the second time around, if you don't consider the added work of the older sibling. I think most people get freaked out by their first baby a bit -- "OMG, what if it breaks or something?" With the second, the feed, cuddle, sleep, change, feed, and so on routine is much easier to manage.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:52 PM
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Thank you, Deity, for making me gay. Thankyouthankyouthankyou!


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:53 PM
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They should make a dryer with a high-intensity UV lightbulb inside to add the de-germifying power of the sun to the sensible modern efficiency of an electric dryer. I bet it'd sell great in California.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:53 PM
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96: Don't think that makes you safe. Rah could come over all paternal and want to adopt.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:54 PM
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96: At one point in time, there were more gay couples with toddlers in my immediate circle than straight ones. Just saying.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:54 PM
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So now that we've filled you with dread, here's hoping you get a girl this time around. Entirely more fun to dress.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:55 PM
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Yeah, but no one accidentally adopts.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:55 PM
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Also, congratulations Brock! I'm envious.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:58 PM
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I'm sure Brock would be willing to impregnate you for $12 a session, B.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:59 PM
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I remember there being a soaking stage in the cleaning of my younger siblings' cloth-diapers. Brush off poo, soak in bleachy water, rinse and then launder? Something like that.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:59 PM
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I love how much apostropher is in thrall to his daughter.

95: A friend who recently had her second child reports that it's easier this time to deal with a baby, but that she's really ready to ship the toddler to Tanzania for a few years. The toddler's newest trick when the baby cries is to yell at the top of her lungs, "Mommy, the baby is crying! Come pick her up!"


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:59 PM
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Congrats, Brock. My $0.02 worth: there are definitely positive returns to scale in child-rearing, apart from the first few months with a newborn (and the last few months of pregnancy).

The incremental burden from the second child is much less than the first, because you have already pretty much sacrificed your leisure time when you became a parent, so now it's just a matter of re-allocating it among two children.

It appears your children will be spaced about the same as mine. You can look forward to them being able to entertain each other (at least for short periods) from the time the younger is about 18 months.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 12:59 PM
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carry along a cart cover, like the Grip-Guard or Healthy Handle, a dishwasher-safe polypropylene cover that fits over any size cart handle.

OMG. Seriously, Apo, where did you find this piece of shit article?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:00 PM
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100: This is true. I'm fairly resistant to the pinkly flowered and frilly genre of adorableness, but infant clothes for girls do reduce me to wordless cooing.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:01 PM
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I love how much apostropher is in thrall to his daughter.

Seriously, if I were any more smitten, parts of me would start falling off.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:01 PM
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103: Um, no. Who knows where that man's penis has been?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:01 PM
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"Mommy, the baby is crying! Come pick her up"
Ah, yes, I get that in the middle of the night.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:02 PM
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where did you find this piece of shit article?

I collected it one gram at a time from my underwear, B.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:02 PM
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Maybe I could work out some sort of clothesline-hanging deal with my neighbor across the way.

On second thought, I'd rather not meet those neighbors until well after I finally buy a bedroom curtain set.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:02 PM
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They should make a dryer with a high-intensity UV lightbulb inside to add the de-germifying power of the sun to the sensible modern efficiency of an electric dryer.

IIRC, Kurt Vonnegut envisioned something similar to this in Player Piano in the 1950s, except his fictional dryer exposed the clothes to ozone to impart that dried-on-the-clothesline smell.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:03 PM
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I'm telling you people, babies do not care if they're wearing "boys" clothes or "girls" clothes.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:03 PM
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107: Also, I'm clearly not a germophobe.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:03 PM
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My daughter used to wear adorable Laura Ashley one piece rompers. Oh, she was so cute.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:04 PM
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108: I'll second that. Sacred Heart, a girls school on the upper east side, kits out its littlest students in the standard gray jumper with peter-pan-collared white shirt underneath -- but with the addition *a red and white gingham pinafore*. I could die whenever I see them. It's enough to make me want to have daughters and send them to years and years of Catholic school.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:05 PM
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If Rah up and announced a desire for a baby he would be in luck, as monkeys would also be flying from his ass and those are pretty close.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:06 PM
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115: I pretty much hate the idea of `boy clothes' and `girl clothes', and toys etc. It's all I can do to not mock the parents I know who play along with this game. At least, not too much.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:06 PM
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119: Harder to catch, though.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:07 PM
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Maybe I could work out some sort of clothesline-hanging deal with my neighbor across the way. On second thought, I'd rather not meet those neighbors until well after I finally buy a bedroom curtain set.

So you can offer to re-open the curtains if they let you use their clothesline?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:07 PM
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120: Yesterday at the expensive baby clothes store, while purchasing fabulous outfits for two nieces and a nephew, I *repeatedly* told the proprietor that I *did not care* about the division between the boy section and the girl section, inasmuch as all the children being purchased for are too young to care. This while my own son, with hair down to his butt, was playing impatiently outside.

And yet, the woman just would not stop. We bought stuff from her anyway, and Mr. B. tells me that she informed him during the deliberations and purchasing that she sends her own daughter to a Christian school and thinks that the public schools are just terrible.

Sigh. You try to support local businesses and yet you end up feeling like you're condoning evil anyway.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:10 PM
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All baby clothes make me coo. Once I bought a friend's baby an adorable little sleeper printed with a cute puppy and decorated with little swirls and snails. Upon wrapping it to mail, realized that there was a little poem about snips and snails and puppy dog tails and my friend had a girl baby. Sent it anyway with a note about how I wasn't trying to transgress any norms, I just liked puppies and the light blue trim.

Babies don't care. Parents often don't, but I buy baby clothes in green and yellow mostly. Plus, yellow means little ducks!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:11 PM
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9 et al: [the putative gram of feces]
74: and who gives a shit if your diapers are stained?
120: I pretty much hate the idea of `boy clothes' and `girl clothes',

Dark-colored underwear for guys is the greatest thing since the invention of the printing press. Discuss.



Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:13 PM
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the greatest thing since the invention of the printing press

But not since the invention of sliced bread.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:18 PM
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122.---I was thinking about how awkward it would be to talk to people who might have seen you nekked, but you suggest awesome new layers of creepiness!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:20 PM
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I'm all about not reinforcing gender norms, but the particular coo-inducing feature of infant girl clothes for me is the fussiness: tiny embroidered flowers, ruffly lace, and so on, which is so endearingly in scale with the tininess of the baby fingernails and so on. Unfortunately, that class of fabulousness tends not to be available in even remotely gender-ambiguous clothes -- to dress a boy baby like that, you'd need to have parents that were completely comfortable with ignoring gender norms.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:24 PM
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Yellow ducks are teh awesome. Did you know that, at least in big-kid clothes, any blue other than navy is now "for girls"? Appalling.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:25 PM
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120: I pretty much hate the idea of `boy clothes' and `girl clothes', and toys etc.

Via Crooked Timber, an interesting blog called outside the (toy) box that gets into this area.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:28 PM
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Oh, the fascism of little-boy-fashion completely freaks me out. Anything that could possibly, if you squint at it, in a dim light, could be perceived as feminine is completely contaminated and icky.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:28 PM
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any blue other than navy is now "for girls"

Once again, B lives in a strange parallel universe unrecognizable to normal people.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:28 PM
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You can look forward to them being able to entertain torment each other (at least for short periods) from the time the younger is about 18 months.

Fixed that for you.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:30 PM
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I was thinking about how awkward it would be to talk to people who might have seen you nekked, but you suggest awesome new layers of creepiness!

Picture figuring out halfway through a massage that your masseuse is the spouse of your spouse's coworker to whose home you've been invited for dinner the following week.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:33 PM
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to dress a boy baby like that, you'd need to have parents that were completely comfortable with ignoring gender norms.

Or the lace and ruffles and whatnot could be recoded as indicating luxury rather than femininity, like it was in Little Lord Fauntleroy's day.

I recommend that any of our readers who are really, really rich start dressing their sons in frippery and finery, and put their daughters in convents.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:33 PM
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134: I don't have to picture it, it's going to be on Cinemax in a half hour.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:34 PM
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134: how embarrasing that is probably depends on the type of `massage'.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:35 PM
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132: I'm telling you, I just bought a bunch of new clothes for PK from the Children's Place, Hanna Anderson (they had a sale), Old Navy, and Target, and yes, dammit, I got him a pair of medium-blue pants from Hanna Anderson which were in the "girl's" section because boys pants only come in navy, brown, black, olive, or fatigue. And truly, it is very hard to find tops in anything other than those colors + red or orange.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:40 PM
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Picture figuring out halfway through a massage that your masseuse is the spouse of your spouse's coworker to whose home you've been invited for dinner the following week.

I am certain that they never talk about it now.


My first serious gf went to massage school. She had to give 200 or so massages before she could get her certificate. She begged and begged my gf and I to let her give us massages.

It was relatively humorous.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:43 PM
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134, 137: Make sure she washes her hands before she starts cooking.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:44 PM
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128- Our son wears stuff like that because he likes pink and we borrowed some clothes from people who had girls. For illustration, I could post our holiday card picture with him in a pink Pooh shirt with a heart on it (no ribbons or lace on that particular one though.)
(Please pick fruit connecting "Pooh shirt" to earlier topic of this thread.)


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:47 PM
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Yeah, I'm not really getting the concern with the massage therapist. The one we see is a friend of long standing.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:48 PM
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142, meet 140


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:49 PM
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142:

Professionals generally dont care. My dad is an ob/gyn. Lots of friends and family go to him. No big deal.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:50 PM
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s/b friends and family of friends.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:50 PM
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Open your ass and your heart and mind will follow."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:52 PM
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If I have a flickr photo set to "only visible to friends" and I'm in the unfogged group, will it be visible to other members?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:56 PM
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we've got a flickr group? can I play?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:57 PM
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People go to ob/gyns with whom they are friends? That's horrible. I won't even go see people I know for dental exams.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:57 PM
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Fire In The Valley - Female Genital Massage
Fire On The Mountain - Male Genital Massage
Uranus- Self Anal Massage for Men
Zen Pussy

Link. I do love California.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:58 PM
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If I have a flickr photo set to "only visible to friends" and I'm in the unfogged group, will it be visible to other members?

You have to move specific photos to the Unfogged group deliberately and when you do, they become visible to group members, no matter what the permissions are on the photos.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:59 PM
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149: I have no idea why that would seem particularly horrible. I suppose people might be leery of seeing any medical professional they knew non professionally, but I can also see people arguing that one the other way.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 1:59 PM
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Where's Emerson? This is kind of his specialty.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:00 PM
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Well, I personally thought it was awkward, being perhaps less at one with my naked self than some. But he was a really good masseuse who made house calls, so I got over it. Until, that is, the house call where, waiting naked on the table for the massage, I heard him loudly announce to the husband, "Well, I guess it's time to go rub oil all over your wife's naked body now."

But I can't imagine any circumstance in which I would go to an ob/gyn that I socialized with. I get that the professionals don't care. Me, a little squeemish.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:00 PM
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If I have a flickr photo set to "only visible to friends" and I'm in the unfogged group, will it be visible to other members?

Only if you post it to the group.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:00 PM
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141: I love you.

Also, thanks to the person who posted the link to Outside the Toy Box. So, SO happy someone is writing that blog.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:00 PM
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Many people trust someone that they know more than they trust a stranger.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:01 PM
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I was thinking about how awkward it would be to talk to people who might have seen you nekked

If you prefer not to talk to people who have seen you nekkid and don't mind if total strangers have done so, there are several obvious career possibilities open to you.

I have insomnia, and during one period I would routinely hear orgasms from the neighboring appartment at about 3-4 a.m. I creepily figured out who it was by the apartment number, and eventually met the couple in the mail room. It was the nerdiest-looking Asian grad student you ever saw and his mousy, demure wife.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:02 PM
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I heard him loudly announce to the husband, "Well, I guess it's time to go rub oil all over your wife's naked body now."

What I wouldnt pay to say that to UNG now....


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:02 PM
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157: right.

154: this (squeemish) is similar to Brocks reaction, and I don't understand it. Maybe because I don't care who'se seen me naked, etc.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:03 PM
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Were I to start another family, in recognition of gloal trends I'd get both the boys and the girls cute little camo outfits.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:04 PM
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It was the nerdiest-looking Asian grad student you ever saw and his mousy, demure wife.

In shocking news, today, we discover that nerdy looking people have orgasms!


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:04 PM
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global


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:04 PM
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161: So long as they are both pink with ruffles and stitching, that'd be perfect.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:05 PM
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Added photo illustrating said non-gender-normative clothing to the photo pool- it actually does have a nice little pink ribbon bow. Also illustrating this point.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:06 PM
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159: Next time you are in Chicago, maybe I can introduce you.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:07 PM
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134: So you didn't get the happy ending, did you?


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:11 PM
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154: But he was a really good masseuse

Masseuses are pink, masseurs are blue.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:11 PM
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160: It's not sqeamishness about nakedness--I'm dead serious about the dentist thing.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:12 PM
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this (squeemish) is similar to Brocks reaction, and I don't understand it. Maybe because I don't care who'se seen me naked, etc.

As far as doctors, I think not socializing with one another makes frank and open discussion a little easier. I mean, do you really want to discuss that inflammation and strange discharge with the guy you are going to hang out in the yard with next week? Or, less dramatically, if I'm going to ask a bunch of stupid questions, I'd rather ask someone who I don't have to hang out with later.

As far as the massage therapist awkwardness (pre-creepy comment), I really do think it's a function of whether or not you are comfortable with your body generally.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:12 PM
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I'd get both the boys and the girls cute little camo outfits

Sadly, even they are gendered.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:13 PM
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167: Are you asking about the massage or the marriage? Eh, who'm I kidding -- in either case, no.

169: I actually do know my dentist personally. He's really good, but I am definitely less honest about my flossing habits than I would be if he were a stranger.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:16 PM
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170: Yeah, I understand that take on medical professionals in general, but also understand the converse --- being more comfortable with somehone you feel you know a little bit and can trust more because of it.

Certainly the more medical professionals I've known and see the work of, the less I am likely to trust a random one (basically, not at all now). So either you do a fair bit of research or go to someone you know and have reason to believe is good (or maybe ask them for suggestions).


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:16 PM
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If a doctor is going to check my prostate, I'd prefer it be somebody who has already stuck their finger in my butt socially. But that's just me.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:18 PM
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174: besides, then you can say `hey, I saw you checking out my ass', and everyone would laugh...


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:20 PM
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Fleur has admonished me about revealing too much about her on the comments, so I hope I'm not overstepping that boundary here. She had the disconcerting experience of finding out that her OB-GYN was engaged to a television celebrity; it was disconcerting because she found out when she saw him grieving on television after his fiancée was the victim of a high profile murder.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:45 PM
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in recognition of gloal trends I'd get both the boys and the girls cute little camo outfits.

In recognition of global trends, I absolutely refuse to buy camo anything.

PK's Official Baby Picture was taken in a little pink-and-white striped outfit because that's what he happened to be wearing at the time. I loved that oufit because it was his only little baby sack when he was little--you know, the kind where the bottom ties up with a drawstring. So adorable! In the picture, he's lying on a blue plaid blanket, again, because that's simply what he happened to be doing at the time.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:52 PM
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I won't even go see people I know for dental exams.

My dentist is my wife's long-term ex, among other things.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:56 PM
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Where I was born, all babies wore essentially the same thing --- a kind of thin cotton sleeved dress. This was probably in deference to heat & sun as well as convenience but all the pictures I've seen had no gender difference in clothing at all. It's a weird comparison to here and now.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:57 PM
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179: Back in 1920 that was indeed the norm, cf. the baby in "Popeye".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:58 PM
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I was joking, B!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 2:59 PM
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I would dress my kids from head to toe in Death Metal garb.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 3:00 PM
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I've heard that pink used to be the boy color and blue the girl color- but it was more of a UNC blue.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 3:01 PM
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176: Wow, that's really sad. Poor guy.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 3:03 PM
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No more masturbating to the guy who sang for Quiet Riot.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 3:10 PM
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180: sure, but I'm not nearly that old (probably median or a bit lower for unfogged)

183 is true.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 3:19 PM
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185: isn't that sort of redundant. We're talking about quiet riot, right?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 3:19 PM
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Amazingly, the story of Quiet Riot is not a peaceful one.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 3:22 PM
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185: Maybe. Depends on the imagination and individual preferences.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 3:29 PM
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105:-95: Better the kid yells instead of trying to change the baby's diaper himself. The room looked like someone had tossed a shit grenade in the door during a bio-warfare exercise.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 4:24 PM
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I'm telling you people, babies do not care if they're wearing "boys" clothes or "girls" clothes.

Precisely the problem! It's up to you to MAKE THEM CARE.


Posted by: PerfectlyGoddamnDelightful | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 4:46 PM
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I was joking, B!

I know that, but what, I'm not allowed to make a serious comment in relation to a joking comment?

185: Oh. Darn.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 4:48 PM
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134, what 168 said. That completely changes the story.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 4:51 PM
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Assuming you're all a bunch of boring hets, that is.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 4:54 PM
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I'm a fascinating het myself.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 5:04 PM
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I'm a pretty boring het.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 5:19 PM
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The room looked like someone had tossed a shit grenade in the door during a bio-warfare exercise.

The recipe I've seen for that one involved one German Shepherd bitch, six or seven puppies, and a large burlap bag of unshelled walnuts. The results were truly amazing.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 5:25 PM
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I'm a classificatory het.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 5:35 PM
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195: Do tell? *leaning forward, eyes wide, chin resting on fist*


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 5:45 PM
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I'm too het to quet!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 5:51 PM
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I can't believe noone has asked Brock who the father is yet. This place is so fidelitonormative.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 6:26 PM
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Just found out today that we're going to have a boy in April. We knew about the April part, but the sex is new information.

Also: fetuses are weird looking, when imaged with ultrasound.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 6:30 PM
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This place is so fidelitonormative.

You must be new here.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 6:34 PM
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203: I meant lately, teo.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 6:56 PM
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Congratulations Brock and TJ!

190 made me laugh out loud, because I'm heartless.

Oxygen bleach works fine on diapers and is sort of nontoxic. Vinegar neutralizes the ammonia in pee.

I'm so hopeless at diapering I held my kid over a bucket or the garden somebody's mountain laurel, and that turned out to work fine too.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 7:39 PM
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Thanks, Penny.

You could always just wrap the baby's ass in mountain laurel. An e'ergreen wreath of good tidings... and bad drippings.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 7:42 PM
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my guess is that bugs you get from close proximity to people are more likely to be infectios-in-humans, and should be avoided. General floating-out-in-the-woods sort of bugs are less likely to be specifically bad for humans, so better for priming the immune system. Drinking from the same river that you put your sewage in (ie every 3rd wold country and most of history) was a really good way to get infections that are good at killing you.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 8:14 PM
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How expensive is hydrogen peroxide? that woudl be my first guess for a good safe-for-babes disninfectant, besides boiling/UV that kinda stuff. Drying out in the sun would be an option.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 8:20 PM
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I forgot to say congrats. Congrats, Brock! Another Brocklet! Or Brockling. And to TJ! A TJchen!

Must not have a baby yet. Must not. Must. Must.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 8:37 PM
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Thank you- and now that we know what we're getting, we get to stop saying "it." Mrs TJ was threatening to call it TBE.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 8:43 PM
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Must not have a baby yet. Must not. Must. Must.

If you worked it right you could have the first baby conceived at UnfoggeDCon, or at least the first one who's pretty sure who the father is.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 8:46 PM
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Hanna Anderson
has definitely gotten way more gender-specific with their clothes in the last 20+ years. But they're still good. And they last and last.

I stopped going to my longtime family dentist when he was all over the local news as the major suspect in his wife's disappearance. He called me at home one night at dinner time to ask why (!!) and I said "I'm uncomfortable about the news stories" and he danced around it. The police blow things out of proportion or something. He didn't even deny it!

I still can't believe I said it to him. I got off the phone and everybody else was in fits. You said WHAT? To the murderer? And he said WHAT?

Now I got to an annoyingly perky cheerleader-type dentist with whom I have no relationship, and want none.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 9:15 PM
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212: Sounds like a scene from a dream

Yoyo:

How expensive is hydrogen peroxide?

Not very for one of those little dark bottles, but what would you use it for? I guess you could use it as a stain remover, but Borax works well if you are soaking diapers.

Be careful with any strong (food grade) hydrogen peroxide, it can burn your skin, I wouldn't use it around a baby.

At the risk of attracting Child and Family Services, I don't think diapers need to be as disinfected as you might think. Baby pee is basically sterile and poop is not radioactive - just wash diapers really well and don't use harsh soap or fabric softener on them and learn to accept being covered in an invisible layer of crap, like me and Apo.

Sorry, that last was just to mess with ya.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 10:28 PM
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fetuses are weird looking, when imaged with ultrasound

Like little clay golems.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 10:29 PM
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#9: there's about a gram of feces--a quarter the size of a small peanut--in every pair of dirty underwear

Exfuckingscuse me? Speak for yourself, pal.

Obviously, that's an average figure, people. Good folk like us have unencumbered undies, while there are less reputable sorts out there skewing the mean with almond- and Brazil-nut-sized chunks.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 10:45 PM
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I don't think diapers need to be as disinfected as you might think. Baby pee is basically sterile and poop is not radioactive - just wash diapers really well and don't use harsh soap or fabric softener on them and learn to accept being covered in an invisible layer of crap, like me and Apo.

Zackly. You're not going to be using them to wipe the table with.

Well, at least not until the kid's out of diapers and they've been washed a few more times. At which point they actually make awesome rags.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:08 PM
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"Be careful with any strong (food grade) hydrogen peroxide, it can burn your skin, I wouldn't use it around a baby."

Yeah, see the thing with hydrogen peroxide is that once it oxidizes, its gone. Things like bleach (chlorine) or borax (boron) can leave mineral traces. so unless you're washing the baby itself in the chemical, i'd think the h202 would be the safer option.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:16 PM
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I think yoyo's right, chemistrywise.

Little clay golems is a good way of putting it, apo.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:38 PM
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I agree with your reluctance to use chlorine; I hadn't thought about boron traces being a problem, but I'll check it out.

I wondered if oxygen bleach (which I like) and liquid h2o2 were the same thing; and if so why had I never seen the latter used on laundry?

While the purchase price of hydrogen peroxide products are cheaper than the powdered versions you must consider that much of the product is water. On an oxygen equivalency basis the costs are similar. While hydrogen peroxide solutions have the advantage over powdered products of being sold ready to use, powdered bleaches are easier to handle, have better storage stability and do not need any added chemicals to enhance stability.

http://www.laundry-alternative.com/Oxygen_bleach_research.html

So it sounds as if h2o2 would work fine.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 11-26-07 11:47 PM
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good safe-for-babes disninfectant, besides boiling

I didn't read this the way you wanted me to read it.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 12:03 AM
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We are not honouring ogged enough for his Californian link. Who else could have found this?

Mindful Masturbation for Men
Take a one-on-one tutorial with a master of masturbation. From the intimacy of his living room, Bruce P. Grether speaks directly to you and encourages you to follow along as he demonstrates his style of "Mindful Masturbation."

I feel we should start the Grether awards, for distinguished punditry. I need to work on this idea.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 1:26 AM
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I can't think of anything more depressing than the idea that i suck at jerking off, too.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 1:37 AM
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Don't worry teo. Each of us has his faults. With practice comes improvement. eg.:

I can't think of anything more depressing than the idea that i suck at jerking off, too.

Perfect! Now jerk off with the mindfulness with which you typed that sentence, and you'll be fine.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 1:52 AM
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Oh and by teo I meant yoyo, of course. Mindfulness, my ass.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 1:54 AM
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I can't think of anything more depressing than the idea that i suck at jerking off, too.

Topical.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 6:35 AM
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Totally agree that the idiotic recommendations in that article to coat everything liberally in antibacterial cleansers are a way bigger problem than the concentration of bacteria on almost any of those surfaces. Way to fuck it up, "experts": you're paving the way to our supergerm future. Most of the advice there isn't any different than the attempts of advertisers to make people feel the need to apply deodorant or anti-dandruff shampoo like the worst OCD person you know.

The kitchen is about the only area where it's right to get people to practice careful hygiene (though still not with routine antibacterials) because both meats and produce can introduce pathogens into domestic environments that wouldn't otherwise be introduced by ordinary human movements through built environments.


Posted by: Timothy Burke | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 10:19 AM
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Out of idle curiosity, does anyone have any scientific analyses which support the contention that failure to expose kids to germs might lead to increased allergic responses, or is this just one of those generational conventional wisdom things? I buy it, it makes intuitive sense to me, but that doesn't make it true.


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 10:29 AM
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Dob, I think a lot of the work on that idea has been done in connection with rising rates of asthma in the U.S. and Western Europe--the argument was that the greatest increases have been seen in more hygienic environments (and asthma incidence doesn't seem to have risen at all in most of the developing world, with the exception of environments that have serious air pollution). I don't know what the current research findings on that hypothesis are, though.


Posted by: Timothy Burke | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 10:45 AM
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Here's one article from a scientific angle. Via Emerson.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 11:00 AM
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ok, deoderant is one of the best things about modern civilization.

I think there's pretty good evidence for the lack of exposure -> allergies, but i don't have the articles saved or anything.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-27-07 12:51 PM
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