Re: Gah

1

An inane comment then.


Posted by: Napi | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:31 PM
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This has been happening to me non-stop for the past week. I now have, like, twenty-six demi-posts sitting in my "New Post" queue. Even this very minor version of writer's block is enough to make me scream.

Your original post was an invitation for me to write about my problems, wasn't it? Phew. Because for a second there, it seemed like I might be coming across as a tad narcissistic. And instead I'm just tragic. And heroic. And almost painfully handsome. But also blocked.

I hope it gets better for you. If you find a cure, please pass it along. I'd be most grateful.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:33 PM
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Ask and ye shall receive, Napi.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:34 PM
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I now find this happening with comments to posts. I deleted two before posting this one.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:35 PM
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The self-censoring micro-minority of unfogged rears its ugly head, then pops it back down and there were six more weeks of winter.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:43 PM
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You misspelled "gay", Becks.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:43 PM
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[predacted]


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:44 PM
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How long 'til baseball season?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:46 PM
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A friend (of mine, and of the fantasy genre) suggests this exercise: pick up a fantasy book written by a dude, flip to the author photo, and rate him on how hard he's trying to look like a pimp.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:47 PM
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I smite you all with my mouse of clicking (+3, +5).


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:48 PM
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Becks, if I can promise my own gratitude in advance, will you knit them together as a bulleted series of koanic half-thoughts? That would be rocksors.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:49 PM
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I wish I could audioblog Mr. B.'s side of these phone calls to undecided Nevada voters. They're hilarious.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:49 PM
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You, too, can experience the hilarity by clicking over to B's blog right now!

(They are indeed hilarious.)


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:54 PM
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A friend (of mine, and of the fantasy genre)

Aren't you a bit old for imaginary friends?

No, wait. I just had a moment of clarity.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:54 PM
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13: They continue to be hilarious, but I have to get some food on my family.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 7:58 PM
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Well, Becks, what you could have done is give a forum to us "out" liberal Fascists. But you didn't. So I guess probably, God forbid, someone's going to decide to blow some shit up, and it will all be your fault.

See, this ain't no trolley-car problem. Liberal Fascism is some serious shit.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:00 PM
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How long 'til baseball season?

Pitchers and catchers report to spring training in just one more month!

(That better have been a serious question.)

trolley-car problem

Has everyone read the NYT magazine article from this week that cites this extensively?


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:04 PM
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I'm curious how many people think this smells like baloney:

LONDON (AFP) - Twins who were separated at birth and adopted by different sets of parents later married each other without realising they were brother and sister, a peer has told the House of Lords.
David Alton, an independent, pro-life member of the Lords, said the brother and sister were granted an annulment after a high court judge ruled that the marriage had never validly existed.
The Catholic politician -- who discovered the case after talking to a judge -- used it to highlight perceived deficiencies in the government's proposed Human Embryology and Tissues Bill, which is currently going through parliament.

This smells awfully convenient to me. And I say that speaking as a person who has always argued that fancy-pants reproductive technology is going to get us in some very big trouble sooner or later, and that we ought to be working out social norms for just these situations. But seriously -- a politician makes an impossible-to-investigate claim about a hot-button political issue that just happens to be up for debate?


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:09 PM
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Witt is a baseball fan.

That Witt is a multi-faceted person. knowledgable in many different areas.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:09 PM
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It's 4 am, and the guy two rows back thinks he can argue a crying baby into silence. At least that's what I think he's doing -- it sounds Amharic, but it could be anything. Fascists of whichever flavor would be doing us a favor blowing us up. Or maybe someone should just give the kid a cookie.


Posted by: Napi | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:10 PM
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18:

Way too convenient. Cannot trust those pro-lifers!!! Cannot trust them. Evil!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:10 PM
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Napi is bringing back stuff for us to chew on to keep us wired.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:11 PM
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If it's 4 am, the baby's crying because it's tired. The last thing it needs is a cookie.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:11 PM
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(They are indeed hilarious.)

Pretty darn adorable.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:13 PM
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17: I have. But the thread about Teo's dating life didn't seem too interested in it.

18: I've read that long-separated family members often have strong attractions for each other. It makes a certain sense--the stew of attraction includes recognition of one's self in the other, and when you have that ingredient's potential strength with a blood relative absent any longstanding relationship and its attendant interdictions, it makes sense that the first response would be sexual.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:14 PM
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19: I was gonna try to be helpful in the other thread and link you to the old thread where we discussed voice-recognition software, until I realized that you were the person who instigated that discussion.

There are several jokes to be made, but I'm a courteous type (except when I decide to serial comment), so I won't even link to that thread.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:14 PM
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Being on the Internet is the opposite of a cure for writer's block. It scatters your thoughts in a million directions and creates emotions with no objective correlative.

For me, the only cure for writer's block is to go for a walk. In the actual world, not on the Internet!


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:15 PM
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18: Okay, so let's say a biological (presumably half) brother/sister pair, both conceived via ivf, born to different sets of parents, meet up and get married some day.

So fucking what?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:16 PM
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Turning off the lights in the plane seems to have worked. Will, you'll have to go get your own qat.

The better bet, though, is the honey. And I'm expecting major appreciation for the bunch of kashmir shawls.


Posted by: Napi | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:17 PM
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I'm curious how many people think this smells like baloney:

Me me me! On top of everything else, this guy is claiming that the mythical brother and sister were the product of IVF, which adds a nice extra layer of not very likely to the whole proceeding. What percentage of IVF births are given up for adoption? Surely not many. Yet the guy needs it in his story to ensure that it is ultra-relevant to his dumb argument.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:17 PM
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Witt, do you really expect me to remember things that happened more than two weeks ago??!

(It was more than two weeks ago, right???)


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:17 PM
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32

Did you bring me back a cool knife?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:18 PM
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||

Thanks for all the night-weaning advice and encouragement, Di, read, asilon, Emerson, gswift, bitchphd.

Knecht, if Fleur remembers any details of weaning while co sleeping, and has time to email, I'd love to hear them with any advice, (email under name).

Thanks!

/||


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:18 PM
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34

So fucking what?

According to the Steven Pinker article referenced in 17, So fucking what Ewwww.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:19 PM
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35

That Prison Break guy seems to be in the Sunnydale High Swim Team. I did not know that.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:19 PM
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36

But the thread about Teo's dating life didn't seem too interested in it.

That thread doesn't seem too interested in teo's dating life either.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:19 PM
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34: Haven't read it. But the chances of three-headed babies are pretty damn slim, and obviously they're not violating an incest taboo since they're complete strangers to one another. So.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:21 PM
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38

How many women have you asked out this week, Teo?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:22 PM
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.What percentage of IVF births are given up for adoption? Surely not many.

Unfogged Jesus has taked about this, (re: his own family) and I kept meaning to ask him more about it.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:22 PM
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New Prison Break tomorrow.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:22 PM
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33: I'll ask Fleur.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:23 PM
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Prison Break sucks.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:23 PM
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How many women have you asked out this week, Teo?

If by "this week" you mean the week starting today, none. If you mean the past seven days, two.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:23 PM
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I agree with 37.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:24 PM
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I meant today. What have you done for me lately? Carpe Deim. Go gather some rosebuds!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:24 PM
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Julie is traveling in France on summer vacation from college with her brother Mark. One night they decide that it would be interesting and fun if they tried making love. Julie was already taking birth-control pills, but Mark uses a condom, too, just to be safe. They both enjoy the sex but decide not to do it again. They keep the night as a special secret, which makes them feel closer to each other. What do you think about that -- was it O.K. for them to make love?

Haidt via Pinker.

(Isn't the birth defect possibility significantly higher when it's twinfucking?)


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:25 PM
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I didn't get up until 2, so I haven't had much time.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:25 PM
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Redfoxtail is correct. Why do IVF and give up for adoption?

I cannot imagine that has happened more than a handful of times.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:25 PM
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49

So fucking what?

Hey, B and Eugene Volokh finally find a topic they can agree on.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:26 PM
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(I use "it's twinfucking" as one might say "it's raining". Check and see if it's twinfucking out.)


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:26 PM
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Check and see if it's twinfucking out.

Huh, what do you know. It is.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:27 PM
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(Isn't the birth defect possibility significantly higher when it's twinfucking?)

I don't know why it would be, since twins of different genders aren't any more similar than any other brother and sister.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:27 PM
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51: Get your camera!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:27 PM
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Go, twins, go!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:27 PM
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I always wonder if I shrug more over incest taboos than most people seem to just because I'm an only child, or because I'm a fiend. Consensual sibling-fucking? Go for it!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:28 PM
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42: Agreed. And I really liked the first two seasons.

Thesis: The greatness of TV shows varies inversely with the alleged complexity of their conspiracy arcs.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:28 PM
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53: How awesome would it be if they were related to Bela?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:29 PM
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55:

Only child. If you have siblings, you are more likely to be grossed out. "Sex with her?!?!?!? You have GOT to be kidding me." The bad babies are just a bonus bad result.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:30 PM
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A standard "Wrong vs Gross" example: A man buys a frozen turkey, takes it home, lets it thaw out, has sex with it, cooks the turkey and eats it all. What, if anything, has he done that is morally wrong?


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:31 PM
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Having written 59 I'm thinking I should have searched the archives first for the inevitable thread from three years ago on this.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:32 PM
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What, if anything, has he done that is morally wrong?

For starters, he had sex with a turkey that wasn't capable of consent.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:32 PM
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Yes, but there's no game called "Wronger than Wrong."


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:32 PM
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buying frozen turkey?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:33 PM
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A man buys a frozen turkey, takes it home, lets it thaw out, has sex with it, cooks the turkey and eats it all. What, if anything, has he done that is morally wrong?

Nothing, of course.

I should have searched the archives first for the inevitable thread from three years ago on this.

I'm not going to link, but there were pictures.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:33 PM
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48: UIRI, I think Jesus was talking about the extra embryos sometimes created in the process of IVF, not the actual babies. I think the unimplanted frozen embryos are sometmes given to adoptive parents now, and that's what the "adoption" would refer to.

Don't believe the politician, though.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:33 PM
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When you Google Image "ben w-lfs-n" you get the pictures from 59.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:33 PM
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A man buys a frozen turkey, takes it home, lets it thaw out, has sex with it, cooks the turkey and eats it all serves it to oudemia's friends.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:34 PM
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ah, offensive nuisances.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:36 PM
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The NYT article gets started on "Wrong versus Gross". It doesn't go so far as to say that of the five moral modules that evolutionary psychos claim, disgust is the least fixed and most pernicious basis for moral claims, but I will.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:40 PM
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If I can remember my long-ago anthropology reading correctly (and if the anthropologists were repeating accurate information), every society ever study has had an incest taboo. The question is what represents incest -- e.g., in some societies a boy's maternal aunt was *supposed* to help initiate him into adulthood through sex.

Lone Star is the only non-hysterical treatment of sibling incest I can remember from the last 20 years of mainstream pop culture. I'm sure there are many others.

But this is one issue on which my emotional, visceral response overrides everything. (Entertainingly, in my state, when you go to get a marriage license, they don't do a blood test. They just ask if you are related by blood, and how closely.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:40 PM
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What do you think about that -- was it O.K. for them to make love?

I think it's none of my business?

Also, if you guys remember, this was an actual plot point in that John Sayles movie "Lone Star."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:42 PM
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Bertolucci's "The Dreamers" ... I don't know that I'd call it "non-hysterical", maybe "generally hysterical".


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:42 PM
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My unreflective opinion is that 'moral modules' are better suited for error theories than as bases for moral claims.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:43 PM
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What are error theories?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:44 PM
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Navajos have one of the strongest incest taboos in the world. Marriage is prohibited within the same clan group (not just the same clan) of any one of either party's four grandparents. As a result, marriage to non-Navajos is both common and widely accepted.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:45 PM
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My unreflective opinion is that Steven Pinker is full of shit unless proven otherwise.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:45 PM
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Although in Lone Star (spoiler alert), the mother plots to break up their high school romance for precisely this reason, and when they reunite years later, knowing the truth, the woman explicitly tells the man that she's been sterilized.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:47 PM
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What's an "error theory"?

Oh never mind, I don't know what a "moral module" is either.

75: Does this lead to a lot of kidnapping?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:48 PM
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Does this lead to a lot of kidnapping?

Not that I know of. Why?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:49 PM
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*Pinker specified that the brother and sister used birth control.

When Pinker ventures into philosophy, which he does all the time, he does it from scratch and by the seat of his pants, as though he were the first person to ever think of these things. The fact that he does cite some generic trolley-car problems doesn't really improve the situation.

I'm hardly an advocate of Leiteresque professionalism, but Pinker is really annoying that way.

*I'm sure that B and Volokh agree on more than one topic. B has that power.

*If happy incest were possible, it would solve many of my and my sister's problems. Except that as part of a couple, I would end up getting roped into helping remodel the stupid house.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:49 PM
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Entertainingly, in my state, when you go to get a marriage license, they don't do a blood test. They just ask if you are related by blood, and how closely.

I think the point of blood tests (does any state still do them?) was to test for incompatible Rh factors (and for venereal diseases, in some cases).

Bostoniangirl can probably comment more knowledgeably on this, but I think one of the rationales for reading the banns of marriage in the Anglican church, along with preventing bigamy, was to prevent inadvertent incest of the kind alluded to in this song.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:50 PM
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What's an "error theory"?

Roughly, the view that there are nothing "in the world" outside our own interests and purposes that makes something moral or immoral.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:50 PM
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82: is nothing. Christ.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:51 PM
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Just that these moral modules are probably more useful for explaining why certain moral intuitions maybe unreliable rather than as a ground for an ethical system. ("You see, we think it's morally wrong to fuck frozen turkeys because back on the veldt, there were no freezers so any turkeys fucked would have been squawking, and thus a recipient of pain.." Or more seriously, "Obedience to authority has survival advantage X, which may mislead us into thinking that it also has a moral advantage.")


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:53 PM
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78, 79: I think I do remember seeing some arguments (by outside academics, not by Native historians) that this requirement was politically helpful, because it made the Navajos more likely to have alliances with outsiders. I have absolutely no sense of whether this is true.


Posted by: Wit | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:54 PM
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the woman explicitly tells the man that she's been sterilized.

Right, and in the Pinker scenario they use birth control, and we are presumably to believe it was effective.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:54 PM
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I think Woody Allen marrying his step-daughter is infinitely squickier than the Lone Star scenario.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:56 PM
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87: Hell yes.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:58 PM
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87 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:58 PM
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Nevermind the overtones of incest, the thought of Woody Allen engaged in sexual intercourse is squicky all by itself.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:59 PM
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I think I do remember seeing some arguments (by outside academics, not by Native historians) that this requirement was politically helpful, because it made the Navajos more likely to have alliances with outsiders. I have absolutely no sense of whether this is true.

It sounds reasonable enough. It's certainly helped to keep the Navajo population up. The saying is that 100 years ago there were 30,000 Navajos and 30,000 Hopis, and now there are 300,000 Navajos and 30,000 Hopis. I don't know how exact the numbers are, but the gist is certainly correct, and exogamy has played a big role.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 8:59 PM
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||

Who the fuck cancels all morning flights for Laguardia? Arggh. Bastards.

|>


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:01 PM
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82: that sounds as if it could be compatible with some form of constructivism, and "error theory" doesn't have to refer to ethics.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:02 PM
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exogamy has played a big role

One year, everyone in my department married everyone else in my department (or so it seemed) and then all proceeded to cheat on one another with each other. Ja/m/ie R/ed/fie/ld said: "Haven't these people ever heard of exogamy?"


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:06 PM
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93: Around here 'error theory' seems to be used most in 'So-and-so owes us an error theory' which usually means 'a good explanation of why everyone's intuitions disagree with the results of his theory.'


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:06 PM
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87 sucked at the time, but they did stick it out.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:08 PM
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94: I am generally in favor of exogamy.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:08 PM
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87 etc.: I saw an Israeli kibbutz study once in which they claimed that none of the children who spent certain crucial early years with each other went on to date as teenagers.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:09 PM
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97: Start with gamy, then we can haggle about the specifics.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:09 PM
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99: Exogamy involves better odds than endogamy. I was just talking to my mom about this yesterday.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:10 PM
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In general, gamy is not erotic unless it has some sort of prefix.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:10 PM
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102

And I still haven't heard from the waitress.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:11 PM
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103

pick up a fantasy book written by a dude, flip to the author photo, and rate him on how hard he's trying to look like a pimp.

I once saw a picture of Robert Jordan. My god.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:12 PM
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I'm hardly an advocate of Leiteresque professionalism, but Pinker is really annoying that way.

I've read a lot of Pinker because I, too, am a dilettante, and because his subject matter often interests me. But I haven't yet identified a way in which he is not annoying.

Here's where I stopped reading the NYT article:

One can easily say, "I don't like brussels sprouts, but I don't care if you eat them," but no one would say, "I don't like killing, but I don't care if you murder someone."



Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:12 PM
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87: In Lolita has Humbert actually married Lolita's mother or just proposed? I forget.

It is not to anyone's everyone's liking but Nabakov's Ada or Ardor: A Family Chronicle is a relatively recent non-hysterical treatment.

My "good parts" gloss of the plot for the 1st half of the book is "Hello my name is Van Veen.I You We fucked my cousin half-sister sister, prepare to die. And then in the end Van and Ada settle down as a long-term married couple.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:12 PM
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I don't remember the guy's name, or even what books he writes, but I know there's about 500 of them, they're about rabbits, my cousin has read all of them, and he looks like he's trying to be a damn jester in his author photos.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:13 PM
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100: How'd you do?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:14 PM
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That article mentioned in 18 about the UK twins did seem fishy. Even if I had no idea I was adopted and my bf had no idea he was adopted, I'd think at least one of us would think it exceedingly coincidental that we were born on the exact same day, in the exact same town, at the exact same hospital, probably a few minutes apart...and it would get figured out before heading down the aisle.


Posted by: Annie | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:14 PM
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How'd you do?

I think I convinced her.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:15 PM
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I once saw a picture of Robert Jordan. My god.

Don't have him to kick around anymore. But yeah, pimpalicious.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:15 PM
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107 is funny.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:15 PM
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Humbert married Lolita's mom.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:16 PM
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A man buys a frozen turkey, takes it home, lets it thaw out, has sex with it, cooks the turkey and eats it all serves it to oudemia's friends. his guests.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:18 PM
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Annie, you're just prissy that way.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:19 PM
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his guests.

The police.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:19 PM
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Nabokov's novels should not be taken as examples of anything real-world.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:20 PM
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Note to self: do not eat anything w-lfs-n has cooked.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:20 PM
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Note to self: do not eat anything w-lfs-n has cooked.

You didn't come to this conclusion after the post mentioned in 64 and 66?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:21 PM
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Lone Star, I thought, was a wonderful meditation on the proper role of history in one's life. I disagree with the conclusion - which I took to be essentially that the wise approach on an individual level is indifference to history - but Jesus, what a great movie.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:22 PM
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117: Word.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:22 PM
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Btw, I can't believe nobody has complained about this yet:

sex with it

Objection; incorrectly ascribes agency to the turkey.

(I think I mean agency. Somebody help me out.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:23 PM
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Turkeyist.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:24 PM
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"sex with [the turkey]" no more ascribes agency to the turkey than "sex with a condom", or "sex with a toy", ascribes agency to the condom or the toy.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:25 PM
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w-lfs-n, do you make the poor little turkey neck nod out a limp consent?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:26 PM
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Limp consent isn't nearly good enough. I demand firm conviction.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:27 PM
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What does Singer have to say about the relative merits of fucking frozen turkeys vs. fucking vegetative people?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:28 PM
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121: As w-lfs-n notes, it's not ascribing agency to the turkey. You might object by saying that 'have sex with [an inanimate object]' isn't correct usage, but I don't think that holds up.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:28 PM
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126: The former is too cold until thawed?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:29 PM
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Nabokov's novels should not be taken as examples of anything real-world.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:30 PM
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Annie, you're just prissy that way.

Yeah, I want to know whether or not I'm related to somebody before I become related to them.

I vaguely recall a similar case in the US where, for some reason, the couple were aware they might be brother and sister, but opted not to find out, got married and decided not to have children. I probably got some facts wrong there. If that rings a bell w/anyone who knows more, I'd like to hear about it. It's an interesting question.


Posted by: Annie | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:30 PM
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I once saw googled a picture of Robert Jordan and found a picture of diseased, enormous balls. My god.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:30 PM
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how Woody Allen's marriage is more immoral than incest?
two people do not have any biological connection
if they fell in love, there is no any real taboos to overcome between them
sure they betrayed their stepmother and wife
but the western morality i think allows almost anything, i never could understand for example life insurance, a family member dies and his death is supposed to benefit you?!
still their sin can't be compared to incest which is just really really gross even to consider its morality something
well, i'm oldfashioned that way


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:31 PM
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127, of course, the way I noted it depends on construing the turkey as a tool used in sex, and not a partner to it.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:31 PM
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incest which is just really really gross

Isn't this best understood as social conditioning with a underlying genetic benefit ?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:33 PM
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The original idea behind life insurance is that it is supposed to be a way to provide for your dependents when you cannot provide for them directly, being dead, and also as a way to ensure that they are not put into debt by the costs of your funeral.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:33 PM
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The comparison of betraying mother and wife to making sure one's survivors have something to live on while they move/find new work/take time off is truly original.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:34 PM
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how Woody Allen's marriage is more immoral than incest?

Something about power imbalances and social relationships being more meaningful than biological ones, I suppose.

but the western morality i think allows almost anything, i never could understand for example life insurance, a family member dies and his death is supposed to benefit you?!

The idea is supposed to be more that the death causes a significant and continuing financial hardship (due to lost earnings and such) which the insurance counteracts.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:36 PM
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127: Ah, that's what I was getting at. Thanks.

135 reminds me that one of the saddest things about riding mass transit in poor neighborhoods is the sheer number of ads for funeral insurance. Talk about depressing.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:36 PM
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116, 129, (142?): Oh, so Antiterra really doesn't exist?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:38 PM
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127, of course, the way I noted it depends on construing the turkey as a tool used in sex, and not a partner to it.

It seems to me that this construal relies, also, upon a somewhat non-standard understanding of "having sex" as an activity does not require a partner. (To speak of "having sex with yourself" does not require such a construal -- this is just speaking of yourself as both partners.) I'll note that it seems much more natural to me to say "We had sex with [instrumental] a condom" than "He had sex with a condom."


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:38 PM
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I vote that in the turkey example, the object of the preposition is being treated as a partner to the sex, just not an agentive one.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:39 PM
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"Lars had sex with his RealDoll." Doesn't seem so non-standard to me.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:40 PM
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The lengths some people will go to for a family stuffing recipe.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:41 PM
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This entire problem could be done away with if people would just use the word "fuck."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:41 PM
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I was just trying to be amusing, people. Not a whole lot rides on the construal I was trying to suggest.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:42 PM
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Lars is not having sex with his RealDoll in the same way that he is having sex with his condom, surely. I am objecting specifically to Ben's conflation of the two. Lars is treating the RealDoll as a kind of partner to, or, let us say, recipient of, his sex act. The condom or sex toy with denotes a different relationship (of being an accessory or tool or something in assistance to the sex act).


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:43 PM
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The original idea behind life insurance is that it is supposed to be a way to provide for your dependents when you cannot provide for them directly, being dead,
yes, i read about that
what i couldn't get was murders by family members to get those benefits, isn't it like a conditioning thing

oh, my thoughts could be even more 'original' too
i like your inventive way to say screwey


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:44 PM
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Arguing about it is more amusing than just standing around while you try to be amusing, though.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:44 PM
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147 was me


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:44 PM
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Yeah, yeah.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:44 PM
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what i couldn't get was murders by family members to get those benefits, isn't it like a conditioning thing

What?!? You think that "western morality" is pro-spousal murder? Isn't *what* a conditioning thing?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:45 PM
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what i couldn't get was murders by family members to get those benefits, isn't it like a conditioning thing

The idea is that this sort of thing will be addressed by the police.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:46 PM
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I am objecting specifically to Ben's conflation of the two.

It all depends on what was being done with the turkey, you know.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:47 PM
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Cala is Sidney Morganbesser!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:48 PM
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Stop conflating that turkey this instant.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:48 PM
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w-lfs-n beat me to the Morgenbesser reference, but he didn't spell it properly so I still win.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:50 PM
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Beneficiaries that kill their benefactors don't receive the insurance benefit (unless they get away with murder).


Posted by: Annie | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:50 PM
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OT: All due respect to people who feel personally frightened because of a horrific murder, but this kind of thing makes me very angry:

"It hit close to home because I'm an avid runner and hiker, and I do those things by myself," said Amanda Lancaster, 25, of Post Ridge, who estimated that she ventured outdoors alone four or five times a week.

Stay home, everybody! Because heaven knows we can't have you venturing outdoors alone. Argggh.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:51 PM
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Stay home, and if you *do* have to go outside, for god's sake remove your shoes for screening!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:52 PM
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It all depends on what was being done with the turkey, you know.

True!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:52 PM
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My wife figured out the end of all movies instantly. She figured out the end of Lone Star twenty minutes into it. It's unnatural.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:53 PM
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ventured outdoors alone

Oy.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:53 PM
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Do you know what's sad? I went grocery shopping today and bought $200 of groceries, came home and cooked a very rich meal, am incredibly full, and yet I still want to go eat more stuff because there's so much yummy food in the kitchen now.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:53 PM
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You think that "western morality" is pro-spousal murder
in direct reading of life insurances it seems to me so
sure i amuse you endlessly now
this is just to see when you 'll drop mocking me
like very superintellectually


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:54 PM
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Why did I do Google image searches in response to both 66 and 131, despite knowing I would regret it?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:55 PM
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"... said Dr B, 40, of No Fixed Address, who estimated that she ventured into the kitchen alone four or five times a day."


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:55 PM
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The first review of the new Rambo movie is in, and it sounds like a winner:

the entire movie could be summed up as follows: "AHHH!! Gunfire, gunfire, gunfire, AHHH!!! Stabbing. AHHH! Decapitation, followed by gunfire. AHHH! Numerous body parts being blown off; more gunfire. AHH!!! Rape. AHHH!!! Babies dying. AHHH!! John Rambo doing quite well for himself in his new career as being a sort of "snake whisperer" and catching cobras.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:55 PM
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165: Curiosity killed the cat.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:56 PM
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read: Generally if you murder someone, you're not eligible to receive the insurance payment. It only works if you don't get caught.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:56 PM
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Interesting book on life insurance.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:56 PM
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Lemme guess, EB: you haven't actually read this book yourself.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:57 PM
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#169: Someone should make a movie about that.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:58 PM
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Judging from the lack of Amazon reviews, no one has.

(But it looks potentially interesting, from the title.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:59 PM
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Judging from the lack of Amazon reviews, no one has.

I've read it.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 9:59 PM
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!!!!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:00 PM
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172: That's the plot of the _next_ Rambo movie, when Stallone is 70.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:01 PM
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It only works if you don't get caught.
i'm aware of that part of the life insurance realizations too, thanks to hollywood movies,
anyway thank you for clarification


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:01 PM
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I read it just about a year ago. Never finished this one, though.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:03 PM
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????


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:03 PM
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I've read it.

Figures.

We've standardized and formalized a lot of our solutions to intimate personal concerns in this country. I was just arguing with my brother, actually, over whether voluntary charitable contributions would provide a proper floor under the most vulnerable members of society if the government weren't playing a role.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:04 PM
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Well, it worked great during the Victorian era.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:05 PM
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What does Singer have to say about the relative merits of fucking frozen turkeys vs. fucking vegetative people?

Talk To Her was a really beautiful meditation on raping someone back to life.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:06 PM
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I think I would find Ada and Van's incest unproblematic if Van were not such a prick.

Then there's the scenario were Veronica Mars and Duncan Kane were really siblings. Probably it would have just made me pissed off at Rob Thomas. ("Is there anything about that girl's life that you don't want to be fucked up?")


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:06 PM
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Re 18: No doubt Alton went looking for a case that he invoke in support of his cause, but that's not the same as just making it up.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:07 PM
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Well, it worked great during the Victorian era.

Exactly.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:07 PM
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It's true, that wouldn't be the same! But where is there any evidence that the story isn't made up?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:08 PM
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182: Yeah, that was an odd movie.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:08 PM
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I just brought up the blog and saw that this post had 187 comments. Made me laugh.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:32 PM
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SPOILER ALERT! Seriously, knowing that would have ruined the movie for me.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 10:35 PM
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Surprised this isn't a sound bite yet.


Posted by: Michael Vanderwheel, B.A. | Link to this comment | 01-13-08 11:33 PM
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This is funny.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 12:16 AM
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Can we talk about Juno, now?


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 7:04 AM
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Having written 59 I'm thinking I should have searched the archives first for the inevitable thread Philip Roth novel.

pick up a fantasy book written by a dude, flip to the author photo, and rate him on how hard he's trying to look like a pimp.

It's hard out there for a pimp, yo.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 7:52 AM
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but the western morality i think allows almost anything

read, I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trolling, but do you see how this is a pretty obnoxious thing to say? Besides the vast oversimplification of "western morality," it suggests that westerners essentially have no moral principles.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 8:49 AM
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I'm listening to the Jeremy Irons reading of Lolita. I recommend it. You can get a free audio book from audible by signing up for a 14-day trial and then canceling it as soon as it downloads.


Posted by: ixnaythemetier | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 10:10 AM
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read, bitchphd and redfoxtailshrub have explained what the purpose of life insurance is. It usually only goes to close family members, and is supposed to help them adjust to having their lives uprooted by death.

You have to stop and think about it for a while, just stop talking and try to understand another culture's system. Because what you said is so offensive I don't have words for it. Please don't apologize, just drop it.


Posted by: mrmf | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 10:12 AM
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This is like Borat: Culture Learning for Make Benefit Glorious Blog of Nerds.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 10:37 AM
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What percentage of IVF births are given up for adoption? Surely not many.

Late to the conversation, but Penny had my back in the follow-up to this, and she was correct: leftovers from our egg donor/IVF program were released for use by infertile couples. This is common, and I suspect will only become more so; remember the Bush administration's promotion of adoption of 'snowflake babies?' Same deal.

It could represent quite a few people, ultimately. We had something like 12-15 embryos left over. Identities of donors are generally treated with the utmost secrecy, but I predict that, as in the case of adoption, people with an interest in knowing their biological parentage will force the records open.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 10:45 AM
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to 194 and 195
that was my may be awkward attempt to defend Woody Allen
coz i don't think his acts were so immoral to be compared to incest
why one would bother to go through all those divorse and infamy things if he did not choose what he thought right
may be it was too much to say that the western society is amoral, i wanted to say just almost anything is allowed, kinda too lax and i don't klnow the proper word, coz free is what i like and not sounding proper here
and honestly i don't understand, you people discuss incest as if it's all normal and next you are all offended being told that's it amoral


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 1:36 PM
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oh, i forgot to add that i do not get the whole adopting foreign kids fashion
if rich white females have so much irresistable urge to adopt someone else's children why they do not to start adopting from your own country folks
no, it should be some exotic child from faraway as if it's a luxury item
children you know grow and even may stole your husbands
Angelina Jolie i think is an exception though
she i believe truly wants to raise that public awareness thing etc
but Madonna? seizing kids from alive parents, unbelievable


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:33 PM
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if rich white females have so much irresistable urge to adopt someone else's children why they do not to start adopting from your own country folks

READ! stop it. Please. There are real debates over foreign adoption, but this is a terrible oversimplification. The domestic adoption process can be very difficult, and many, many people choose to adopt from overseas for reasons that have nothing to do with thinking it is exotic.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:39 PM
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if rich white females have so much irresistable urge to adopt someone else's children why they do not to start adopting from your own country folks

Because that wouldn't be fair to all the poor orphaned children of city folks!


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:43 PM
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The domestic adoption process can be very difficult, and many, many people choose to adopt from overseas for reasons that have nothing to do with thinking it is exotic.

This might be true. But, it doesnt entirely explain why rich white people do not adopt black babies.

There is less stigma to adopting an non-black baby.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:46 PM
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I fully agree that the adoption system is full of weirdness and many of the choices people make are not entirely savory. But it is complicated. Plus, what is up with the idea that women alone are doing the adopting here?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:48 PM
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OT: Hailey (our beagle) is now in the ground. BR is still tears. My son teared up when I called him. We put a little football in the hole for her from him and a dinasaur toy that my daughter liked as well.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:49 PM
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205: That's so sad, Will. I love beagles.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:51 PM
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I believe that I said "people" not women.

People want to adopt:

1. white babies.
2. non-black babies.
3. white toddlers
3. non-black toddlers.
4. black babies.

It is justified as "the child will not have as much to deal with in school." That answer is truthfully "we [the parents] will have an easier time with a non-black child."


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:51 PM
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205: Oh Will. I am so, so sorry. It's unspeakably rotten and I haven't yet stopped bursting into tears each day over my doggie who died in December. I'm crying typing this.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:53 PM
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I believe that I said "people" not women.

Yes, sorry, I didn't meant to throw that one at you, just at read.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:53 PM
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That sad part is that it wasnt the dalmatian who died.

I'm just saying that if the dalmatian is gone from the backyard when I get home tomorrow, I am willing to wire money to your coffee store of choice. Stanley????


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:53 PM
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And I'm very sorry to hear about your beagle.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:54 PM
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will, my condolences.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:54 PM
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205: Oh, I'm sorry, Will.

I'm not even making a joke about adopting a mongol to replace her. Because this is sad and solemn.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:55 PM
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I am sorry Oudemia. What kind of dog?

The dogs are really BR's children. Tears will be sprung again tomorrow when the kids get back.

My son was reall concerned about how BR and oru neighbors took it. He kept asking, "But are they ok???" He will go over tomorrow to check on the neighbors. Such a good kid.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:56 PM
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It is Br, much more than me. I've lost so many animals over the years, it doesnt really affect me. (cows, zebras, monkeys, camels, dogs, etc)

I try to take a somewhat Buddist approach to it.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 4:58 PM
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213: Heebie is naughty, but now I am laughing.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:00 PM
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Heebie brings the naughty. I've often thought that oudemia and heebie were soul sisters. Or at least cousins.

My dad brought some mongol curdled milk back from mongolia. Shockingly, it was really nasty.

But I tried it because I am a good son.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:05 PM
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heebie-geebie you could have said adopt a down instead of a mongol as a directly as you could imply
i would appreciate more direct insults as that cavemen example
so that to know who you deal with


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:06 PM
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-a


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:07 PM
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Adopt a down.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:08 PM
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218: I think heebie was making a play on words involving the similarity between "mongrel" (a mixed breed dog) and "mongol".


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:09 PM
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i think i know some brown people who is like whiter then your average white
human nature, alas


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:11 PM
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Best Michael Jackson song, no contest.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:12 PM
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i think i know some brown people who is like whiter then your average white

Take ogged, for example.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:13 PM
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Please!


Posted by: BPL | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:14 PM
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219: The -a switch is used to show hidden comments.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:14 PM
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yes, it occured to be he could be al little bit sympathetic to me
though i still hope he is not a heebie-geebie stock


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:18 PM
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Down on the US adoption system? Try the system of a down.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:19 PM
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As a heebie-geebie sock puppet, I just want to say that I didn't realize that some people don't hear the word "mongrel" nearly as much as I do and therefore wouldn't realize that it was a pun. In fact, I personally haven't heard the word "mongrel" said out loud in years, since people say "mutt" nowadays.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:20 PM
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.this comment, for instance.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:21 PM
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i think i know some brown people who is like whiter then your average white

read is Hillary Clinton!


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:22 PM
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though i still hope he is not a heebie-geebie stock

read can be really mean


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:22 PM
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High-five, fellow-nerd.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:22 PM
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yes, honestly, adopt your domestic downs first
then foreign kids may be
if it is what you propose 228
i think that would be like a more fair system


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:24 PM
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or fairer


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:26 PM
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Fair? Is life supposed to be fair?

Reminds me of the person who says that God is just. Just???!??!? I dont want God to be just! I want God to be merciful.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:31 PM
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234: adopt your domestic downs first

read, I'm confused. Are you de-punning the preceding comments to suggest that people in the US adopt children with Down Syndrome in preference to foreign children? That's certainly a position I would support, but thinking pragmatically, you are going to find very few takers. And, pace Palindromes (Todd Solondz, 2004), psycho Xtians are massively over-represented in the set of people who will make such an adoption choice. Not that growing up with psycho Xtians is always worse than being in an institution, but you wouldn't believe how much it feeds the psycho Xtians' martyrdom complexes. And that gets hella annoying.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:34 PM
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236: It's like one god said to the other: "Be merciful, and if you can't be merciful, be mysterious."


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:35 PM
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adopt your domestic downs first


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:36 PM
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C'mon,gol.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:38 PM
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well, that's it.


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:39 PM
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I love read. Really. I hope that's not it.

Also, apropos of nothing in this thread:

Heebie's: the ass that launched a thousand quips.


Posted by: Pantene | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:50 PM
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236: Fair? Is life supposed to be fair?

No, but it seems that sports are. (see Pistonius thread).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:51 PM
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205: Will, I'm sorry. Condolences to BR and the kiddos.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 5:55 PM
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Read - my son is adopted from Korea - and every Korean I've met here in the States has told me what a Good Thing that was, given the Korean attitude toward blood lines. I didn't adopt him because he was "exotic"; I adopted him because he was an infant. And he wasn't at all exotic; I've had Asians in my family/as friends for decades.

And where in the world did you get the idea that there were batches of Down Syndrome babies to be adopted? It appears that your knowledge of the US comes from movies-of-the-week, not from any reality-based source.

Will - Here, when we were trying to adopt via the county, we were told outright that the agency would not let us adopt a black child or even a biracial child. You can thank the National Association of Black Social Workers for that.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 7:32 PM
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DominEditrix:

Wait! You mean that racism can work both ways? I am shocked.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 7:36 PM
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You can thank the National Association of Black Social Workers for that.

Can you elaborate?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 7:37 PM
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I hope read hasn't left. But if she has, maybe she could have a group blog with some of the others you people have driven off, like the courtesan and that really annoying paleo-user-group-guy from last summer. I would totally read that.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 7:41 PM
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Never mind, I googled.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 8:04 PM
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248:

Ogged and read left at the same time?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-14-08 8:06 PM
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Oh noes Read haz all ur Oggeds in Haitis!


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-15-08 5:55 PM
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