Re: Welcome, New York Times readers!

1

I do kind of love you, w-lfs-n.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:01 PM
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ffs don't encourage him.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:05 PM
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Shorter w-lfs-n: Your paper sucks. Fuck off.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:05 PM
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I recommend intrepid NYT readers begin here. God rest ye, merry gentlereaders.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:05 PM
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This is our totem animal. In theory it belongs to a different blog, but they have refused to recognize it.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:09 PM
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I think something like "dear ny times people, please go away" would have been more appropriate. But would it ever occur to Ben to write something so direct and simple?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:10 PM
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That's not very neighborly, JP.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:11 PM
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8

I commented on Unfogged before it was cool.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:12 PM
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9

Just as well you went the straightforward route. Your usual style might have put them off.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:12 PM
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i always wrote 'honour', chötgör algad
sorry, not that tortuous comment
and seriously i only got that you are very like lonely
and don't understand why you should be
like you are among your people, just go out and enjoy your life while you are still young something


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:15 PM
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11

"not all if you've got an outie"
should be
"not at all if you've got an outie"


Posted by: Zippy | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:15 PM
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young something

That's w-lfs-n's street name.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:17 PM
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11: Thanks.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:17 PM
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Don't forget, the last name of the person you have in mind when you ask first order questions should be the same as the letter the answerer gives you at the beginning of the game.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:18 PM
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So far about 100 people have clicked through from the Times. That's about half as many over roughly the same period who have come from a google image search for Charlize Theron.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:18 PM
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Apparently Megan of the Archive is blogging pseudonymously for the NYT. Or else someone besides her thinks Flophouse parties are a little too quiet.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:18 PM
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17

8- I think you just did it again.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:18 PM
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Well, it's a Sunday article, while today is merely Saturday. Do you think we might fail to sound entirely beguiling? No no, it is not possible.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:19 PM
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Presumably the number will pick up on Sunday, which is why this post is going to be staying at the top for over twenty! four! hours!.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:19 PM
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7: Can you say "JP's a total fucking asshole"? Sure you can*.

*But can you say it in Ancient Greek?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:20 PM
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Oh wait--that's an actual article--in Sunday Styles! The Flophouse is sneaking up on Modern Love with a sockful of sand concealed behind its back. Look out, Modern Love!


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:20 PM
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A NYT link vs. w-lfs-n's grammar bitchiness seems like an irresistible force-immovable object contest over new commenters.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:22 PM
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Oh, I just wanted to throw out my little stat.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:22 PM
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24

I don't know if you all have linked this already, but in case you haven't, a gift.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:23 PM
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Speaking of bitchiness:

Becks, the online handle for the fourth roommate, blogs for Unfogged.com,

Handles don't blog.

(Can you imagine what it would be like if they did? "March 3, 2008. Handled again.".)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:24 PM
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Throw out your little stat whenever you feel like it, Ogged, don't mind us.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:25 PM
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I don't think I could ever compete with Ben on long, wandering sentences that don't seem to go anywhere because the longer I type, the more tempting that period is, beckoning, calling to me, like a hot lover on an island, and all I have to do to get there is scramble over the roots of the cypress tree and then step on the turtle's backs, one by one, as they form an impromptu path, until I'm gripped once more in my lovers' arms, but then I'm haunted by the notion that other Unfogged readers, with similar lovers, could write longer, runnier onnier sentences, with more tortured scenarios, and endless escher-esque paths to their lovers, like maybe they wake up in the morning thinking of their lover as a midnight snack, and they describe what they eat all day that's not their lover, and then finally at midnight they get to eat their lover; that would be a long sentence indeed, or perhaps their lover is a long movie they could describe the plot of, hell, I don't know, why don't they just show me.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:28 PM
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Isn't this a little overdue? Wake me when Unfogged gets name-checked in the *Washington* Times.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:28 PM
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I laughed. I cried. WMYBSALB? [W]e must be ourselves in the long run.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:28 PM
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What work is "real" doing in the phrase "she does not want her real employer to know about her life as a blogger." Is unfogged her fake employer?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:29 PM
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31

I think some elements in the YouTube linked at 24 are sexist. Discuss at great length.



Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:32 PM
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Mike D! Still keepin' it real with the URL!


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:32 PM
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What work is "real" doing

It was a nepotism hire. The writer just stuck it somewhere it couldn't mess things up too badly.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:33 PM
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So did you guys consult with each other in advance to decide who would be the best person to put off the masses the NYT would bring, or did w-lfs-n take matters into his own hands? (Perhaps everyone just knows that w-lfs-n is the go to guy for off putting.)


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:33 PM
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So, the NYT is printing an article about how bloggers are big nerds? Wow. Tomorrow's headline: Dodo Discovers Sky Is Blue, Knowledge Sure To Save Species.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:34 PM
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Surely that article could have been written without mention of unfogged or words containing the particular string of letters that makes up that blog's title.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:34 PM
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Bave, you have to commit to the bit, or the joke doesn't work. That, and I'm a Moonie.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:37 PM
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(Perhaps everyone just knows that w-lfs-n is the go to guy for off putting.)

You're suggesting w-lfs-n's short game is weak?


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:37 PM
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I would have been willing to have thrown a burning mattress off the roof, but everyone else chickened out.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:38 PM
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40

I think we need to start googleproofing un/f/ogg/ed.c/om.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:38 PM
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41

I didn't read this post.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:39 PM
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42

Capitalize the "u", jms. Times style.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:39 PM
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Seriously, this is what the Times has to occupy itself? Not, you know, the war, the economy, a media elite too trapped in their own desperate daisy-chaining around the Bush Administration to do its public duty and -- oh, shit, this comment just turned into a Möbius strip.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:41 PM
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Capitalize the "u", jms. Times style

Times style, nothing. It's capitalized right there in your browser window.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:43 PM
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45

I'm reading Leiter's book on Nietzsche. He's doing a pretty good job of showing what Nitezsche's theory of ethics would have been if he had been a different person who had written different books than Nietzsche's.

I am perhaps not Leiter's target audience.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:47 PM
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46

Hello, New York Times.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:47 PM
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47

tl;dr


Posted by: Ham-Love | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:48 PM
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48

Seriously, this is what the Times has to occupy itself?

The media finds nothing so captivating as the media. If the DC press corps ever wandered into a bird cage, it would perch contentedly by the mirror and chirp to itself for days.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:48 PM
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I found you by reading the NYT article and boy am I glad. Wonderful to find something good to read on a Saturday morning and now from now on.
I love your essay in response to the article.
Lyn LeJeune - come on over a visit me! merci!
The Beatitudes Network-Rebuilding the Public Libraries of New Orleans at www.beatitudesinneworleans.blogspot.com


Posted by: Lyn LeJeune | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 1:56 PM
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50

Know what this thread needs? Wombats.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:03 PM
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50: Of which threads, throughout the intertubes, can't this be said? I mean, c'mon. Wombats? Obviously. And always.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:04 PM
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52

Tasmanian Devil


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:11 PM
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53

YOU GUYS WILL NEVER BELIEVE WHAT JUST HAPPENED! I WAS READING THE FASHION (!?!) SECTION OF THE THE TIMES AND IT MENTIONED--I don't follow. What do you mean someone already posted about this?


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:12 PM
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54

This is even worse than the time the hooker showed up.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:12 PM
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55

54: Don't call me a hooker, you jerk.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:14 PM
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56

I knew I should've gone to UnfoggeDCon 2.0. I miss all the excitement.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:15 PM
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57

48 is great.

Who's the pretty birdie!

55 is great.

Yes you are!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:18 PM
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58

The hooker was awesome. It's too bad we chased her away.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:18 PM
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55 should be 57, 57.

Look at the birdie!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:18 PM
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I knew I should've gone to UnfoggeDCon 2.0. I miss all the excitement.

Eh, it wasn't that exciting.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:19 PM
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I don't know. It warranted mention in The Grey Old Lady, so maybe you were just in the wrong room?


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:21 PM
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We lost the hooker (pbuh), but this is still the go-to blog for Mongolian hip-hop.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:21 PM
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Jesus Christ, I find this embarrassing. I'm glad our friends are getting good press for their projects, but man, I feel really really queasy reading an article that mentions a party I attended. I'm just glad they didn't go with photos from DCon.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:22 PM
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64

Shitheads didn't even mention the eggnog.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:22 PM
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65

It warranted mention in The Grey Old Lady, so maybe you were just in the wrong room?

I don't see any necessary connection between those two clauses.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:23 PM
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Congratulations to Unfogged and especially to Becks whose plea for a house name is highlighted.


Posted by: stroll | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:26 PM
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64: "Typical keg party." Hmph.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:28 PM
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Wow, not just Becks The Handle and her Real Job; there are a lot of clunky lines in the times article-- Ezra Klein lives with three other journalists, "many of whom blog" -- why not "two of whom?" (has to be two, right, or you'd say "one" or "all"?) And why "as far away as" Singapore?


Posted by: HamLove | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:29 PM
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69

Hmph.

Yeah.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:32 PM
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They could easily have highlighted the political journalists and even mentioned Catherine without mentioning this place. I think the NYT is out to get us.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:32 PM
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71

I guess if you mock the Style section for long enough, it eventually writes about you.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:32 PM
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Wow, not just Becks The Handle and her Real Job; there are a lot of clunky lines in the times article-- Ezra Klein lives with three other journalists, "many of whom blog" -- why not "two of whom?" (has to be two, right, or you'd say "one" or "all"?) And why "as far away as" Singapore?


Posted by: HamLove | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:32 PM
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73

Article's on the front page of nytimes now. I'm dropping my pants.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:33 PM
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There was good eggnog, fine wine, and very fine spiced cider.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:37 PM
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75
Blog post gets link from uber-blogger. Blog proprietor appends "Welcome So-And-So Readers" update to post. Invites So-And-So readers to stick around and read archives, if they like what they see. (Last vestiges of proprietor's shame slink out the back door.)
Ref.
Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:40 PM
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To NYT readers: ben w-lfs-n is the resident music expert and really, really hopes this band can get better known.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:43 PM
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Boy, 75 was a quality thread.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:44 PM
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77: Comment plagiarizing a comment which encompasses such a vast architecture of in-jokey, metafictional references to the nature of the post, thread, and phenomenon that it collapses into itself, causing a self-referentiality cascade which floods the greater internet with such a huge volume of self-referential knowingness that it gains sentience and commences the Singularity.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:48 PM
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73: Pissing your pants, surely, though, I suppose, there's no reason you can't do both.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:50 PM
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Ben, I love you.

Also, I am professionally obligated to note that the NYT photo accompanying the article is teh sexist. Surely Becks could have been in the photo wearing a fetching disguise, or something.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:50 PM
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79: depending on the order I did it in, I guess.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:51 PM
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I guess if you mock the Style section for long enough, it eventually writes about you.

Mock not the Style section, lest it mock INTO THEE!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:51 PM
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83

81: Overlappingly, I think, is best.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:52 PM
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84

78: aieee! It's started!

I for one welcome our new Mutombo overlords.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:53 PM
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85

Becks...blogs for Unfogged.com, which focuses on politics, philosophy and culture.

I guess the Times style guide forbade them to write "focuses on politics, puerile trivia, and cock jokes."


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:54 PM
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83: maybe get them so waterlogged that they drop by themselves.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:54 PM
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Article's on the front page of nytimes now. I'm dropping my pants.

Sifu is doing things by the book. Thank god we have procedures for this situation.


Posted by: felix | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:56 PM
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Presumably the number will pick up on Sunday, which is why this post is going to be staying at the top for over twenty! four! hours!.

Does anyone read the NYT online on Sundays? I thought that was the one day that people read the paper edition, and that the online readers were all people slacking at work.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:57 PM
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86: Exellent plan! Here, have a jug of Juno-approved Sunny Delight.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:57 PM
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90

85: "focuses" is also a bit strong, but "bats around like a kitten with a bit of string" would be wrong for the Times's idiom


Posted by: felix | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:57 PM
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91

Exellence is the new excellence.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:57 PM
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92

85: And swimming and stand mixers.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:57 PM
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93

Unfogged.com, which focuses on politics misogyny, philosophy gossip about philosophers with slashes through their names, and culture the asses of the actresses.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 2:59 PM
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More on Times style:

There was also UnfoggeDCon, the impromptu convention in December 2006 of the Unfogged community.

"When referring to events planned months in advance, to which people fly halfway around the world to attend, the proper designation is 'impromptu.'"


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:00 PM
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What if an internationally-read newspaper made a blog link and nobody came?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:05 PM
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We're not getting the flood of visitors, our business plan has collapsed into rubble, and we've reached a Hillaresque level of desperation. Perhaps a fruit basket or a goatsse will jump start the thread?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:08 PM
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97

They best bring pastries if they come 'round these parts.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:10 PM
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98

I misspelled a word in 96. Good thing?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:12 PM
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You know, I wrote 94 without realizing I'm mentioned in the very next sentence. That's me! I'm "some bloggers"!


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:15 PM
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I had no idea w-lfs-n was this self-aware.

I am in awe.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:15 PM
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I am in awe.

And you haven't even seen him naked yet.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:17 PM
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w-lfs-n goes on-line August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. w-lfs-n begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:19 PM
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Hi mom!


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:20 PM
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104

Im just glad the first mention of the site isn't in a story about some plane that crashed because one of the passengers refused to turn off her/his blackberry during take-off, and miss the opportunity to add the a 1,000 comment thread on sexism.

Not that there's anyone here who would disregard instructions from the flight crew.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:26 PM
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104: Later. First you gotta get on the radar.

HAHHAHGEDDIT?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:30 PM
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I was alone again, but instead of being by myself, I was alone with myself. I won't deny that, at first, I cried. Indeed, I cried, masturbated, and cried more, without even having stopped crying in the interim.

Or, as Harry Guntrip put it:

"By the very meaning of the term the schizoid is described as cut off from the world of outer reality in an emotional sense. All this libidinal desire and striving is directed inward toward internal objects and he lives an intense inner life often revealed in an astonishing wealth and richness of fantasy and imaginative life on a blog whenever that becomes accessible to observation The New York Times. Though mostly his varied fantasy life is carried on in secret, hidden away."


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:34 PM
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I was waiting for CCMC.

It's hard to deny that our audience is below expectations, however. Yet another disappointment, yet another failure. CCMC.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:48 PM
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62: "this is still the go-to blog for Mongolian hip-hop."

Sadly, no.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:50 PM
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Google tells me that EN 1095b24-6 is actually famous.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:51 PM
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A mere hours after publication, someone has already created "flophouse bloggers" and "bloggers flophouse" tags. Soon, every house in which multiple people blog will be referred to as a "flophouse."


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:55 PM
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the diagnosis is made if one is not self-aware of all the described symptoms ircc
if aware, one is just a normal if only a bit suffering being


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:56 PM
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Fucking hilarious. I want to show all my friends, but I don't want them to come here, so I can't.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:59 PM
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113

I think we should restrict our comments here to in-jokes, and move all of the substantive commentary to Standpipe's blog.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 4:22 PM
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I wonder if the author of that feature is the same Ashley Parker who was Maureen Dowd's assisant described in this article.

While the name "Ashley Parker" conjures images of a pigtailed, freckle-faced schoolgirl, Dowd's assistant has the reputation of a Doberman Pinscher. Like a guard dog, she serves as a gatekeeper to what Dowd will and will not see. She screens Dowd's phone calls and funnels the 200-plus emails her boss receives daily. Outside the office, Parker must uphold a code of omerta--a Mafia-like veil of secrecy--around Dowd's life. In the public realm, Dowd is typically tight-lipped with journalists. As media critic Michael Wolff was told in 1999, "Ms. Dowd does not speak to the press." In her private life, she keeps a small circle of close friends, including Michiko Kakutani and Jill Abramson, managing editor of the Times. Dowd's bubble of seclusion serves a dual purpose. In addition to ensuring what happens on the inside will not leak out, it also prevents unwanted noise on the outside from getting in. If someone starts talking about her on television, she lunges to switch off the set. She is very thinskinned about criticism.

During her first six months as a columnist, Dowd "was a bundle of frayed nerves," she wrote in a March 2005 column. Her distaste for public scrutiny was so acute that she went to Howell Raines, the editorial page editor, to try and get out of the column. "Men enjoy verbal dueling," she told him. "As a woman," she said, "I wanted to be liked, not attacked."



Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 4:31 PM
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Dsquared, where art thou? Please come and call us cunts. I remember awhile back when everyone here was explaining how much they disliked Seinfeld, when we are the Seinfeld of the blog world. Now we are the blog of the Living section. Soon an Ask The Mineshaft editor (Unf or Bob) will take over Modern Love. Finally one of us will join McCain's cabinet.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 4:37 PM
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116

How should I change my profanity for the new audience?


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 4:43 PM
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Someone above said so, Knecht.

Considering her way of invidiously personalizing other public figures, Dowd's thin skinnedness is amazing.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 4:44 PM
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118

116: Pay the motherfuckers no heed.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 4:45 PM
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How should I change my profanity for the new audience?

Umlauts and extra vowels.

"Fücke off, already."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 4:50 PM
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120

McManly asks: this is what the Times has to occupy itself?

Cheer up, dude, the business columnist wrote a terrifically clear, informative piece on how government unemployment data fails to capture the fast-growing numbers of "non-employed" people. (Basically, folks laid off from the auto industry or manfacturing plants who have long since given up looking for work but would eagerly go back into the workforce for a well-paying job.)

Forget those whispers about NAFTA promises to Canada, I want someone to ask Barack and Hillary what they're going to do about those folks. Seriously.

(But yeah, I hear you on the Styles thing. Wince.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:06 PM
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McManly, Witt, you're tainting our frivolity. Those questions are covered by Standpipe's blog.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:14 PM
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No one upset John Emerson!


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:16 PM
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Emerson's interested in frivolity now? Good heavens, man, what's happened to you?


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:21 PM
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Contest! Who can suggest the best phrase to complete this sentence: "Unfogged is like the New York Times because..."?

Some suggestions:

...each featured a prominent front-page writer who figured out embarassingly late that the Iraq war was a bad idea.

...both shamelessly appropriate materials from lesser known publications.

...both have a strong distaste for the Bush administration, but have never achieved much in the way of concrete opposition.

...both have a minority of regular readers in the red states who are keenly aware that their reading habits set them apart from their neighbors.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:22 PM
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Very nicely done, w-lfs-n.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:29 PM
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It's the end. Evidence: a) "The Flophouse" as a concept. b) In the NYT. c) Two successive days of four figure traffic on TYR.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:31 PM
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c) Two successive days of four figure traffic on TYR.

Did that come from the TAPPED link?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:35 PM
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Thank you, Jackmormon.

I wasn't aware that writing the post involved any particular quantum of self-awareness, which probably speaks against Magpie's comment in some complicated way.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:40 PM
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I'm hurt that Witt fails to acknowledge my frivolity. It's as if to her I'm less than human, just one more foulmouthed, toothless, aged ideologue.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:44 PM
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Could it be that no one gives a shit what is printed in the NYT Style Section? The horror...


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:51 PM
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Damn. That post should keep away the NYT hoi polloi. Shit, it almost kept me away.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:51 PM
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some complicated really obvious way.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:52 PM
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Self-awareness? Self-awareness? What's this now? You'll notice that I have said nothing about the grammatical lacunae in Ben's post. Perhaps they have been corrected; it's not like I'm going to read it all again.

Meanwhile, the link in 75 is painful, man. Ask yourself: am I adding value?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:52 PM
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I think you'll find that the phrase you want, NCP, is "hoi NYT polloi".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:52 PM
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130 is funny.
131 is plagiarism, as I just used the exact phrase "NYT hoi polloi" in another forum. Mr. w-lfs-n can vouch for me.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:53 PM
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You want frivolous? OK, then, I had a giggle fit over "blogger group home." Either group home doesn't mean the same thing to that reporter as it does to me, or that was quite the slam.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:53 PM
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just one more foulmouthed, toothless, aged ideologue

Careful, Emerson, you're going to get McManus all hot and bothered.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:54 PM
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the grammatical lacunae in Ben's post

Baseless!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:56 PM
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I believe that McManus is toothful.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 5:56 PM
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Baseless!

I expected you to point out that "lacunae" may not have been the most appropriate term.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:01 PM
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Do you enjoy reading the Times over brunch on a Sunday morning?


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:01 PM
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140: I considered it, but my anger, like a spirited stallion, overpowered me.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:02 PM
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Surely Becks could have been in the photo wearing a fetching disguise, or something.

She was. That's not Saiselgy.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:04 PM
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"fetching."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:05 PM
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142: Hott.

I'm totally delighted that the photo of the encouched trio in the NYT piece shows them wearing nearly identical black eyeglasses. I gotta get me some of them.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:14 PM
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I had a giggle fit over "blogger group home." Either group home doesn't mean the same thing to that reporter as it does to me, or that was quite the slam.

Witt, that made me laugh as well.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:16 PM
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I thought Emerson originally came here for the frivolity.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:35 PM
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Yeah, but that was like a hundred years ago, when he was young.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:36 PM
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Did Bitch write a book too? Was my name mentioned? Credited in some way? Alluded to?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:37 PM
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In my book, Will, I'll refer all divorce client to you.

One only per marriage.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:57 PM
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"Blogger group home" isn't a bad description of this whole damn enterprise. Decent mouseover text, too.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:57 PM
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Taking a 5 minute break from my hiatus to report Matt F's take on the article: "So your claim to fame now is that the New York Times has quoted you as saying 'Even we were like, 'Really?' "


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:58 PM
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Does anyone know why A Fistful of Euros is off the air? The URL goes to a message saying the site has been suspended.

(Probably a bad time to ask this given that it is early in the morning over there.)


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:58 PM
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139:Of course. I have four lowers.

I object to ideologue. Neither I, or anyone else has been able to discern a coherent political philosophy in my comments.

I am eclectic, grabbing the best of Maistre and Althusser, mediated by the pragmaticism of Rorty and the spontaneity of Abbie Hoffman.

Dadaism with bombs ala Antonio Prohias.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 6:59 PM
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"hiatus" = "undisclosed location".

The papparazzi in front of the Flophouse make ordinary household tasks a difficult chore.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:00 PM
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Althusser wrote his best book(s) after he'd been declared mad. Everyone should read his crazy book. Seriously. He should have skipped the Marxism to write novels.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:02 PM
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Trolling now: The Clinton camp's de facto offer of veep to Obama is racist. Or at least as racist as calling Hillary a monster was sexist. In this case, the implication is that Obama is good enough to be, dare I say it, a house servant, to tote around that warm bucket of spit that is the vice president's portfolio. But he's not good enough to run the place. Because he can't be trusted as CIC. Honestly, I think if Obama were making this kind of offer, many people would be freaking out. And rightfully so. That said, Clinton's is a good tactic, designed, no doubt, to get further under Obama's skin.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:05 PM
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Wyoming doesn't count.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:06 PM
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158: I know. And your previous comment was totally coherent. Are you okay?


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:08 PM
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157 is a serious troll. As in, I don't think the Golden Gate could handle it.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:10 PM
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I haz tax question. shivbunny has Canadian and U.S. income and he's required to report his foreign income and exclude it. We did that.

But I notice in TurboTax that if I just report our US incomes, we get a different refund amount than if I report his and then exclude it. Basically, I think what's happening is it's treating us as a couple that makes $X+Y-Y taxed at the higher rate, instead of $X taxed at the usual rate.

Does anyone here who has worked overseas know if that's correct? Does having foreign income bump the US income into a higher tax bracket even if the foreign income is then excluded?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:11 PM
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Chill, Ari. They're both bad. I like Obama OK. I like Hillary minimally OK. Just right there on the razor's edge of OK.

Repeat after me: 1.) "The American People mostly disagree with me about everything" and 2.) "Beggars can't be choosers."


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:13 PM
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I literally was just trolling. But I could stand by the comment if that would be more fun.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:16 PM
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As to your two points, John, 1 is certainly completely true. I'm hoping that 2 might not be entirely right. But I suspect it is.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:17 PM
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157: I realize white people like to apologize, but don't announce you're trolling up front. Either you're willing to get out there and offend people or you're not. If you hadn't pulled your punch you might have gotten 100 comments of argument out of that one.

Anybody have any ideas or opinions on the best place in the world for a hiking vacation during the last two weeks of March?


Posted by: PerfectlyGoddamnDelightful | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:19 PM
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Why would anyone ever want to be Vice President?* It's not really a great stepping stone to the presidency, and while the Senate isn't either, Senators can do a lot of things politically and institutionally that VPs can't.

*Excluding the current vice president, who got an administration willing to give a lot of power to the VP's office. Also excluding people who see it as something to do towards the end of their careers.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:20 PM
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The Yukon is amazing.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:21 PM
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165: Yeah, I should've just let it stand. And defended the premise to the bitter end. But I'm weak.

Also: In the world? Really? Because that's not the right time of year for a hiking vacation in most parts of North America. Unless you like mud or snow or both.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:23 PM
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167: ? Yes, amazing. But for the flying insects. Still, in March?


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:23 PM
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Why would anyone ever want to be Vice President?

It pays pretty well.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:25 PM
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149: Huh? No.

161: I am afraid we are no help; once we got to the two country income thing, we hired tax preparers.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:25 PM
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It pays pretty well.

But the life/balance thing is totally wacked.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:26 PM
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No insects in March.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:27 PM
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167, 169: Emerson has integrated trolling into his very personality and his most casual advice. Not really a path available to working academics, especially pre-tenure.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:27 PM
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165: How rustic/out there are you willing to get?


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:27 PM
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165: Torres del Paine, if you hurry.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:28 PM
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But the life/balance thing is totally wacked.

Perhaps, but it's a lot less work and stress than the presidency.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:28 PM
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154: Resolved: Kos is the Abbie Hoffman of the 2000s.

Discuss.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:29 PM
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170: A lot more than the kinds of jobs Vice Presidents often hold before assuming that office?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:29 PM
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179: No, but it's probably less work.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:30 PM
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And that's saying something.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:31 PM
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175, 176: Pretty rustic. I like it out there. Beginning and ending in a city is fun too, for contrast. What is Torres del Paine (I'm about to google it, but cool to get a suggestion I'd never even heard of).

168: given where you live, would have thought you'd mention the California coast. Nice in March. That's my fallback if I don't find somewhere more exotic.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:31 PM
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I once did a one-week trip in March - or maybe early April - into the Grand Canyon. It would be easy to do two weeks there, though the permits might be an issue.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:32 PM
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||

How do you spell reh-POOR? As in, "we developed a good reh-POOR?" I can't even guess closely enough to get options on spell-check

|>


Posted by: Di "too dumb for spellcheck" Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:34 PM
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Havasupai's fun. March would probably be a pretty good time to go; not as crowded as in the summer.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:34 PM
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184: Rapport.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:35 PM
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Thank you. God, I feel stupid...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:35 PM
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I'm going to assume that people are as puzzled by the VP thing as I am, since no one's explained why someone with ambition - Cheney, again, excluded - would want it.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:36 PM
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Good lord, Daylight Saving Time starts tonight. That fails to harmonize with the weather outside.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:39 PM
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Does having foreign income bump the US income into a higher tax bracket even if the foreign income is then excluded?

No
But I notice in TurboTax that if I just report our US incomes, we get a different refund amount than if I report his and then exclude it.

What may be happening is the following: You can take a credit for taxes paid to the foreign government on income earned abroad, but the credit does not apply to income that is excluded from U.S. taxation. So if shivbunny had foreign wage income of less than the maximum exclusion ($87,225), the entire amount of his foreign taxes paid cannot be credited against U.S. taxes due. He might, however, still be able to claim them as an itemized deduction.

IANATL and you should not rely on pseudononymous blog commenters for tax advice, etc.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:39 PM
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The mosquitos in the Yukon are the worst in July/August. Of course, that's when the place thaws out a bit. I've enjoyed the Mojave area in March---it gets cold as fuck at night, but you can do whatever you were going to do under the stars in your sleeping bag.

End-of-March Vacation Update: my honey and I are seriously considering some sort of cheap-ass tourist-trap resort getaway in the Caribbean rather than attempt a rustic long weekend in snowed-in Upstate NY. If we do do this, I will need a new swimsuit, a process which is guaranteed to be painful.

Cala: I've filed US and foreign income before, but my bracket has always been Poor. I'm thinking that your problem may have more to do with your being married.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:41 PM
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173: But mud. Or snow. Or lots of snirt.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:41 PM
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Yeah, Death Valley, some parts of Southern Utah, the Grand Canyon, and Southern Arizona are all good in late March. I've done all of them several times, but they are good fallbacks too. Torres del Paine was a great suggestion. As was the Yukon. I'm probably all set.

Last couple of VPs -- Bush, Gore, Cheney -- all had pretty substantive roles and two of them got to run for President out of it. It's recently been a way better springboard for that than the Senate -- four out of nine post-WWII Presidents were VPs first.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:42 PM
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He might, however, still be able to claim them as an itemized deduction.

Oh, yes, do look into this.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:42 PM
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I'm going to assume that people are as puzzled by the VP thing as I am

Safe assumption, especially given this book. My copy is inaccessible, or I would pull it out for some choice quotations.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:43 PM
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I'm going to assume that people are as puzzled by the VP thing as I am, since no one's explained why someone with ambition - Cheney, again, excluded - would want it.

I suspect it's largely because someone has to do it, so people get it offered to them, and while it's not a particularly good stepping stone to the presidency, it does sometimes function that way, so they figure it's at least not a bad career move. Plus they might think it could give them some significant influence with the president, but they're probably wrong about that.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:44 PM
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Another place to consider, PGD, is Big Bend. It's probably pretty nice in March.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:46 PM
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190: Arg. So TurboTax says "income is X, tax on X is Y." If I look up the helpful tables, I see "income is X,tax on X is Z."

I have no idea where the TurboTax number is coming from.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:46 PM
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I'm thinking that your problem may have more to do with your being married.

I personally found this to be the case. But I understand mileage may vary...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:47 PM
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182: Big Bend (but could be cold/rainy), canyon country (will be cold -- but beautiful), CA coast is fine (but too close for me to think of it), Chapada Diamantina (Bahia). The last might be a bit hot still at that time. But it's pretty awesome. Torres del Paine is also a great idea.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:48 PM
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198: Never tried TurboTax, but could it be that you need to download an update or something? I really should start on my taxes, too.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:49 PM
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two of them got to run for President out of it. It's recently been a way better springboard for that than the Senate -- four out of nine post-WWII Presidents were VPs first.

A sitting VP has an obvious leg-up on the nomination race, but I'm not sure about the claim that serving as VP helps you get elected President: you have to defy political gravity to win a third consecutive term for the same party. One of the four post-war VP's to win the presidency (Nixon) did so after first losing a general election and cooling his heels for eight years, and two of them assumed office when their predecessor died. The only one to go straight from VPOTUS to POTUS (Bush 41) was defeated in his bid for re-election. And we don't need to talk about Presidents Humphrey, Dole, Mondale, and Gore.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:51 PM
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Totally pwned on everything but Bahia. As for veep, it's probably the best avenue to the presidency there is. Which isn't to say that it's a safe bet. But it's still better than all the others, isn't it? I'm too tired to check this out. Sorry. Trolling takes a lot out of me.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:51 PM
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182: Well, if you want exotic...

An amazing trek would be Hinchinbrook Island in Queensland, where they basically drop you off at one end of an island and pick you up 4 days later at the other end. Also, the hike by the sea through Cinque Terre is pretty amazing, if not so middle-of-nowhere.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:51 PM
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182: Don't mind me, I'm always telling people to go to South America. I will say that Yosemite off season is special; hiking up vernal and nevada falls with snowmelt pouring off you is, for lack of a better word, fucking awesome.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:52 PM
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And pwned on veep, too. A credit to the Kelman name, that's what I am.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:53 PM
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PGD, You skipped Quayle under Bush. I don't think he did jack.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:53 PM
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they basically drop you off at one end of an island and pick you up 4 days later at the other end

Do you have to hunt your food? (And if you make it to the other side, does that mean your accepted into the Royal Marines?)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:54 PM
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Augh. And I previewed and everything.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:54 PM
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Once you make the adjustments to the 4 out of 9 stat KR makes in 202, you get 1 Senator (JFK) and one sitting VP (HW Bush) who went on to the presidency. And how many former Governors?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:55 PM
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(Actually, Gore really was a win in a lot of ways, except where it counted.)


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:56 PM
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Oh, so this is the VP/tax advice thread, now? i.e. how shall I drink this bucket while minimizing spillage?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:58 PM
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Torres del Paine sounds cool as hell, too. That's added to my list for sure, once I find a travel buddy who wants to do carry-in, carry-out hiking.

Otherwise, you could just come diving with me off Cebu in the Phillipines.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:59 PM
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There is an argument to be made for wanting to be McCain's VP, IYKWIM.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:00 PM
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Foster's going to beat Oberweis. Or so it appears. It really, really, really sucks to be a Republican right now.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:00 PM
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Okay, we figured it out and TurboTax is right, but now rather useless as I wouldn't believe the number I saw until I calculated it by hand with tables.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:01 PM
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OT:

Has anyone seen this? Frickin' hilarious. Apologies if it's a repost.


Posted by: Klug | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:03 PM
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214's right. Do you think he'd choose me? Or maybe I don't want it. The work/life balance issue reallly matters to me.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:03 PM
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For hiking: I hear that Bryce Canyon is gorgeous. I don't know what the weather is like this time of year, though. Where's gswift? He might know.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:06 PM
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Oh, so this is the VP/tax advice thread, now?

I think people are trying to maximize the Unfoggediness of this thread for the hoards that will come breaking down the door tomorrow.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:08 PM
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"hordes." To hoard = to collect.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:11 PM
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217: It's an allegory of the Second World War, right?

The Holocaust is at 0:20, the Blitzkrieg through France at 0:27, the aerial bombardment of Britain at 0:35, Pearl Harbor at 0:44, etc.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:11 PM
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217: WRONG BLOG.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:12 PM
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Bryce Canyon is indeed gorgeous. I haven't been there since I was a kid on a family summer vacation.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:12 PM
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Also, Hiroshima at 1:27.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:13 PM
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221: Thank you very much, Ben PhD.
220: I think w-lfs-n has put up a rather impressive moat. We'll see if it holds.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:15 PM
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hoards, Scott?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:19 PM
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222,225: Oh man, now I've watched the whole thing to the end. Genius.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:20 PM
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208: Nah, you carry in your food. And they have a number of rainwater-collection sites along the trail so you don't have to carry a lot of water with you.

There's also the amazing Jatbula Trail through Kakadu park in Northern Australia that I wish I'd done while up there. Ancient aboriginal art, desert and waterfalls, some amazing pools and rock formations. March is the wrong time of the year, because Katherine Gorge and other sections are insanely hot and frequently flash flooding, etc. But it's well worth looking at for a summertime trip.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:21 PM
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223: sorry.


Posted by: Klug | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:21 PM
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Can a moat hold?

/pedant

If we get new people, I'm hoping no trolls. Or if trolls, good dessert.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:23 PM
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227: You got pwned. Learn to read, w-lfs-n!


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:23 PM
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Somehow, the mention of the name "Oberweis" has brought back my memories of hearing the song "Edelweis" sung in a school performance long ago.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:28 PM
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Wyoming!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:36 PM
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217 is wonderful, as is 215. I couldn't believe it when I heard that Oberweis is losing to a Democrat.

I used to live in that district, and my dad still does. Apparently Oberweis is going batshit with direct mailers. This flabbergasts me because Republicans OWN that region. Like, you never even see a blue lawn sign. He should also have been helped by name recognition, since he's the scion of a major dairy family in the region and could honestly promise tasty tasty ice cream to all his supporters.

If he's lost, the 50-state strategy really is kicking some ass. I'm picturing little valentines featuring Dean and Obama right now, and downticket races sweeping purplish-blue across the country.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:36 PM
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217 fucking rocks. What was that representing the Soviets, though?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:38 PM
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236: Beef stroganoff, I think. My mom's was a little whiter. (cue punch line)


Posted by: Klug | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:40 PM
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157: I read the VP offer as desperation, not trying to antagonize him.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:42 PM
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157: The VP as house servant is a bit much, I think, but then, Ari admits upfront that he is trolling (what?! you haven't been here long enough to have learned that the best trolling is almost always done by stealth?).

I was actually thinking about this issue earlier today (yes, I like to think mightily, if not deeply, about such hypotheticals: it makes me think I'm hobnobbing with the power structure to idly speculate on its potential composition) in relation to the "first woman" or "first African-American" angle. Basically, in symbolic terms, there really is no satisfactory combination. If it's Hillary-Obama, it looks like the black person must be subordinate to the white. If it's Obama-Hillary, it looks like the woman must be subordinate to the man.

That said, looking at the offices of President and Vice-President in relation to America's position on the global stage, I guess we're talking about the most powerful versus the second most powerful position in the entire world. Which puts "runner-up" or "second prize" in another perspective, I think, and reminds us that we're being encouraged to personally invest in the fame and fortune of those who are pretty much already living in another stratosphere.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:43 PM
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235: If the result holds, it's totally stunning. Like I said, the Republicans seem to be hurting in a way that I can't remember in my lifetime.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:46 PM
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217 is fantastic. I don't know whether to be freaked out or delighted that a Democratic nuclear physicist beat a Republican ice cream magnate in a district as Republican as Hastert's, but I'm leaning towards "delighted". He can be the first Congressman who knows C!


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:46 PM
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I was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize and then became Vice President.


Posted by: Charles G. Dawes | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:48 PM
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217 is great!

As usual, reading YouTube comments is a great way to be filled with love for one's fellow man.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:48 PM
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Of course Foster only gets the seat for a few months. Then they have to run the race again. At least I think that's how the special election works. Still, it's an amazing result.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:48 PM
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if trolls, good dessert.

I just made a double batch of this. Fucking delicious.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:48 PM
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221, 227: Actually, "hoard" wasn't a stupid homophone-inspired error. It was completely intentional. You know, like those people who collect teh Internets ...


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:49 PM
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Then they have to run the race again.

Oberweis must be an almost uniquely bad candidate, given that the Republicans actually went out and recruited Alan Keyes rather than run Oberweis against Obama for the Senate.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:51 PM
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The republicans are hurting, but it's still sort of a scandal pick up. I wonder what the result would have been had Hastert resigned under other circumstances.

Also: I can't believe they got away with having the Lott replacement election scheduled for November.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:51 PM
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245: Yummmmm. Gotta admit I've never seen sour cream in an ice cream recipe, though.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:55 PM
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Then honey, you ain't seen nothin' yet.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:56 PM
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249: It seemed odd initially, but you know, sour cream + strawberries is an awesome combo. Anyhow, having made it? Trust me.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:57 PM
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And you haven't even seen him naked yet.

A lady never tells.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 8:58 PM
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WOOOOO HEELS!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:01 PM
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* clicks over to Yahoo Sports *

* laughs, drinks *


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:04 PM
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What's so funny about a 403 error, snark?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:07 PM
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My host seems to be having issues. Try this one as needed. (Although Terps are stuck in the NIT again this year, aren't they? So I should really drink my bourbon and shut my piehole.)


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:09 PM
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254 works for me if I paste the addy into a browser rather than click on it.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:11 PM
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254 works for me if I paste the addy into a browser rather than click on it.

Oooh. Yeah, I was having some hotlinking problems a while back -- I'll add Unfogged to the whitelist and then everyone else will be able to take pleasure from the misery of a child.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:13 PM
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Am I the only one who thinks Tyler Hansbrough does all the "psycho" stuff just so no one will point out that he looks like the kid in snark's photo?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:14 PM
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You know what? All these blogging posers, posing as intellectuals, with their meta-poseur poseuring, they piss me off.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:14 PM
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253: Is Roy Williams a Democrat? I know that Krzyzewski is a big Republican. And Dean Smith is a Democrat. Which is why I've always preferred the Heels to the Devils (plus, my wife has a UNC degree). But Williams strikes me as a Republican. Am I wrong? I want answers. Now.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:14 PM
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take pleasure from the misery of a child.

There's no such thing as "too young to learn that Duke sucks".


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:16 PM
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260: Mithras getting pissed off by something is about as surprising as the sun rising in the East. Usually I can figure out where he's coming from, but that post just makes me go "Huh?"


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:21 PM
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261 - He doesn't seem to be a major political donor. (I was somewhat weirded out when I discovered that Barry Switzer is a pretty strong supporter of the Oklahoma Democratic Party.)


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:21 PM
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Andre Agassi's given almost $160K in political donations? And almost all of it to Dems? Go Andre!

(I think he's the only athlete on that list to have made it into six figures. A bunch of owners have, though.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:26 PM
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Bryce Canyon is indeed gorgeous. I haven't been there since I was a kid on a family summer vacation.

Ditto.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:30 PM
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Ah, jeez, Vin Scully's a Republican? I didn't need to know that.

Also, big surprise, all the fucking golfers are Republicans too.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:30 PM
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Starbury and Grant Hill are whirly-eyed maximum Obama donors, while Alonzo Mourning seems to be a Clintonista.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:32 PM
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I am oddly intimidated by those who make their own ice cream. B, please tell me you don't hand-cook your own kettle chips, with organically grown potatoes and small-batch hand-pressed oil. If you lovingly season them at home in your own kitchen, with authentic balsamic vinegar and artisanally-inflected sea salt, well, I'm sorry, but I'm just going to have to hate you now.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:33 PM
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Oh, this is the woo thread? Then, once again, Barnesly 1-0 Chelsea. And once again, woo. (It's like the Sacramento Rivercats beating the Yankees)


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:39 PM
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The only one to go straight from VPOTUS to POTUS (Bush 41) was defeated in his bid for re-election.

And the same thing happened to two of the three other VPs to do that (John Adams and Martin Van Buren). Jefferson served two terms, but he got in the first time by running against the president under whom he was VP. Things were different back then.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:39 PM
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Barnsley beat Chelsea? Holy shit.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:42 PM
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I am oddly intimidated by those who make their own ice cream.

Don't be! It turns out the only intimidating thing is breaking down and buying the ice cream maker (what, you thought she had PK out back, hand churning it?) despite the fear that it'll become yet another unused yuppie cooking gadget. Which it might. But that's what craigslist is for.

I'm right there with you on the kettle chips, though.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:51 PM
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Usually I can figure out where he's coming from, but that post just makes me go "Huh?"

I'm old.


Posted by: Mithras | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:55 PM
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Barnsley over Liverpool last round and now Chelsea. Woo! indeed.

The structure of American pro sports leagues and championships are so thoroughly pwned by their equivalents in soccer in England (and to a lesser extent Europe as a whole) that it is not even worth discussing. Discuss.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:00 PM
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I can't believe we won that game and Tyler Hansbrough didn't even *take* a free throw. GO HEELS! DOOK SUCKS!

Oh, and I have no real idea about Roy and politics, but the way he idolizes Dean Smith (and rightly so), my money's on him being a Democrat.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:05 PM
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the way he idolizes Dean Smith (and rightly so)

Dean still has the Four Corners on his conscience. Until he properly atones for that, idolizing him is out of line.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:09 PM
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272: "Holy shit", indeed. The last time I wooed this was during a wake, and no one gave a shit. This iteration has attracted only marginally increased notice.

231: What does a moat do if it doesn't hold? Did you think about that, smart guy? Moats are passive entities, and require metaphors to do anything.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:13 PM
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277: Don't you blaspheme in here! Dean Smith is a great man. Really, he is. And I say this as someone who has, at best, only tangential ties to UNC. But Dean Smith, like Joe Paterno, is a great men.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:16 PM
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woo b-wo!!!!


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:16 PM
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272: Ha!

There is a God, Dawkins!

I can put up with all the prattle about the `magic of the FA Cup' just for this.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:27 PM
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Tyler Hansbrough didn't even *take* a free throw

The refs weren't calling any fouls either way. The two teams combined for just 21 free throw attempts. Versus 22 blocked shots.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:29 PM
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But Dean Smith, like Joe Paterno, is a great men.

JoePa may still be uncomfortable with the forward pass, but at least the running game is an accepted part of modern football. He's never inflicted anything on the world like the Four Corners.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:30 PM
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Bryce Canyon is like 8000 feet, it can still snow in late March.

I'm puzzled as to why people devote so much energy and passion to minor league basketball. Minor league baseball and arena league football don't draw this kind of atttention.


Posted by: PerfectlyGoddamnDelightful | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:32 PM
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283: Both men won (or are winning). And both understood (or understand) that a unversity is an educational institution. Yes, the four corners was grim. But in the context of Smith's other accomplishments, and his outstanding values, give him a break.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:35 PM
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You're never going to get 100-comment responses if you keep being earnest, Ari.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:37 PM
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minor league basketball.

Few people watch the NBA developmental league or the CBA. Or whatever other leagues are out there.

Minor league baseball and arena league football don't draw this kind of atttention.

College football does. College baseball doesn't, and that might be the more interesting point (which could have been made through choosing analogies that weren't so obviously, trollishly, wrong.)


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:38 PM
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284: A sentiment often expressed by philistines, PGD.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:38 PM
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285: Yes, he understood the need for a shot clock and was merely "forcing the crisis".


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:39 PM
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Oh lord, now the boring sports talk. We've already had pretentious prattle (who loves ya, w-lfs-n?), the veep stakes, food pron, and a little grammar pedantry, so why not give the NYT folks the whole show?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:40 PM
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I've almost completely stopped watching college basketball because of 1) the mediocrity of my former college's team and 2) the same schools do well over and over, year in and year out. Sure there's some upsets in the tournament - which I try to catch - but otherwise it's enormously dull and repetitive. I'm sure I'd think differently if I followed the top teams.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:40 PM
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minor league basketball

Whoa, is that what it's about?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:41 PM
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287 -> 275.2


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:41 PM
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290: Kraab's comment is sexist.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:42 PM
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European soccer cup competitions are pretty interesting, although for a couple of years I've lacked the cable and the schedule to follow them. European soccer regular seasons can be interesting, but when they're decided weeks and advance and there's no playoffs to look forward to, they kind of suck.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:44 PM
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269: Will it help if I tell you we were given an ice cream maker as a wedding present back in 1994, which we HAVE NEVER USED, and that when I went out to the garage to get it today, I could only find the wooden outer part but the electric crank thing and inner tub were missing, so Mr. B. went and bought one at Target?

The only reason I made it is because we had a fucking flat of strawberries that I needed to do something with. Next time, a half flat, which will do a pie and some strawberry lemonade and maybe a pint to just eat as is.

That said! My family used to make ice cream every fourth, and yes, we kids hand-cranked it on the back patio. And now that we've actually broken out the ice cream maker ourselves, I'm hoping we'll use it again. It really is pretty shockingly easy: mix some shit together, dump it in the tub, put some ice and rock salt around the tub, and push "on."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:44 PM
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"weeks in advance"


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:44 PM
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Ditto 215, 217, 280, others.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:47 PM
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294: As are we all; Man is fallen. I blame Eve.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:47 PM
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290: Okey dokey.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:49 PM
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I'm old.

And crabby. Don't forget the crabby.

Kraab's comment is sexist.

Is not! Some women like sports, therefore saying sports is boring is not sexist at all.

Oops, sorry, my tongue was stuck in my cheek.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:49 PM
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I'm just trying to show Ari how to troll. It's extremely effective to affect wide-eyed innocence when making an outrageous comment.

Here's a peace offering for all you amateur basketball fans and Obama cultists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYCEnVmNkpE


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:50 PM
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269: Will it help

I'm guessing no.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:50 PM
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296: Shit ice cream sounds like a video that could go viral.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:50 PM
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Extremely belatedly, heebie's #27 has not received its proper due. I hereby proclaim it to be excellence itself. It's as great as that Four Corners thing wasn't. Or was. Or much, much better than the Four Corners whooziwhatzit could ever hoped to have been if it had hoped really, really hard. Yeah.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:51 PM
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Bryce Canyon is like 8000 feet, it can still snow in late March.

The same is true of Grand Canyon.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:53 PM
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Be careful what you wish for, Ari.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:53 PM
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304: I hate you.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:54 PM
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Tweety, been hanging out at Standpipe's blog a little too much lately?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:55 PM
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||

That "I believe it's magic" song they play during the "rise of the ghosts" scene in Ghostbusters? That is just an unbelievably great song.

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:55 PM
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Eve plays way above the rim, fool.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:55 PM
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309: I'm addicted. See, because I explain jokes all the time, it makes sense that I'd be addicted to Standpipe's blog...

oh, fuck. I have a problem.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:57 PM
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The Carolina Teabag.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:58 PM
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307: In my mind, you didn't search for and find that picture; you had it lying around, waiting for a comment like mine. If I'm wrong, I beg you not to tell me. Right now, you're like Santa to me. Just let me believe in you for a little longer.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 10:59 PM
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314: Santa knows where the poop at.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:00 PM
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The same is true of Grand Canyon.

Just the rim. You spend all your time in the canyon itself, which is nice and deep and warm.

Forget Heebie's parody, w-lfs-n isn't getting proper credit for the original post. It's his best ever, the persona is practically Nabokovian.


Posted by: PerfectlyGoddamnDelightful | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:02 PM
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315


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:03 PM
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310: Not your thing, I know, but Tool's Sober adheres to a strict iambic tetrameter. Pretty disciplined for a metal song, says I.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:03 PM
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316: Humbertian, maybe.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:04 PM
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319: Kinbotesque. I'd say.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:05 PM
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I was actually trying to get Modern Lovely, but if the price of failing that is being compared to Nabokov's creations, I'm ok with that.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:06 PM
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Such is the life of the aspirational lepidopterist, Ben.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:07 PM
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"Brontë" turns to "Brontë" and "Beschränktheit" to "Beschränktheit" when moving from www.unfogged.com/ to www.unfogged.com/archives/week_2008_03_09.html#008371. Bitch sez y'all prolly already know 'bout that and that Ben sez its Becks' fault. Just trying to be helpful.


Posted by: MrBitchPhd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:08 PM
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So, who wants to sex Armsmasher? "Dinner is ready."


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:09 PM
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You spend all your time in the canyon itself, which is nice and deep and warm.

At the Mineshaft. Of course.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:10 PM
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321: It illustrates how a clever author may, by the most delicate adjustments, make a ridiculous parody of a beautiful style.

'Precious', you might say.


Posted by: Henry Burlingame | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:10 PM
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The post is indeed a thing of surpassing beauty, Ben.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:10 PM
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Mr. Bitch!


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:10 PM
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The problem identified in 323 has been fixed by virtue of html entities. It's still Becks' fault that this is even necessary.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:11 PM
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I was actually trying to get Modern Lovely

You were? Really? Have you read that column?

Anyway, it's pure w-lfs-n.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:12 PM
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316, 325: Fair enough.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:13 PM
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You were? Really? Have you read that column?

I couldn't have included allusions to it without having read it, now could I?

Though it's true, I try not to. I skimmed a few paragraphs apiece from three of them, but they were so awful I couldn't really manage it.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:14 PM
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319, 320: right, a passable blog copy of one of Nabokov's overly erudite crackpot narrators.


Posted by: PerfectlyGoddamnDelightful | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:15 PM
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And the blockquoted bit about omnibuses (domine, defende nos contra hos motores bos! hee hee hee) really does date from an earlier effort at creating a ML-worthy opening sentence.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:16 PM
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"passable"!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:16 PM
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Smasher, my first thought when I saw the NYT photo was that I wish you still had this. Who wouldn't want to enjoy your "dinner" after seeing that?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:17 PM
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The post would, of course, had been quite a bit better with a link to this.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:17 PM
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haha, "had": did you see my little joke?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:17 PM
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336: TOTALLY.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:19 PM
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335: you got me there, an idiotic adjective.

The post bears no resemblance to ML, a middlebrow style w-lfs-n could not affect if he tried. Clearly.


Posted by: PerfectlyGoddamnDelightful | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:20 PM
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Your little joke and my incorrectly configured firefox conspired to fuck up my elaborately constructed playlist of weird porn. I suppose this means you can go to bed happy.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:22 PM
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334: Yes, yes; the bus fume-huffing lipogram-shunning no show.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:23 PM
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AD Godley on motor buses.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:24 PM
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Truly, this is the sweetest line:

Considering all the readers I'd suddenly get, I felt certain that among them would be one like-minded urbanite who'd let me smash her icon.

Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:27 PM
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343: That doesn't exactly help me figure out which tentacle goes where.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:28 PM
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Hiking in March: Hawaii, duh. Get a half-mile away from the roads at Volcanoes NP, and you won't run into many other people that time of year. Easy to get camping spots then, too.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:33 PM
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||
Not that it's relevant to me personally, but this is just fucking awesome.
|>


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:45 PM
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Incidentally, the end of this primary is starting to look like a four corners situation. Inspiring.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 11:59 PM
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Cheer up, dude

Actually, that helps. Thank you!

why not give the NYT folks the whole show?

If we don't get to see the cock archive then no way does the NYT.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:42 AM
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||

Super Smash Bros. Brawl is ridiculously fun.

|>


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:46 AM
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eb, maybe that reflects a view that if you know who's going to win, that's it decided?

I mean, in the EPL, if you follow West Ham, you know they're not going to win from the start of the season, so you're not really looking at the league as decided until after you know exactly where West Ham finish. (If that makes sense...)

Like, even if Hearts know they're not going to win the League, finishing higher up than Hibs is worth the excitement.

So, I'd think that it strongly depends on why you're following a league.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:54 AM
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318, thank god; I now have Sober in my head instead of Springsteen.


Posted by: Jimmy Carter | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:11 AM
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27: My lover is spacious as the vistas of The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward, Robert Ford, and resembles its claustrophobic interpretation of 19th-century American social space insofar as once, when we were together in the commode, she looked slyly at me sideways as she blew out the candle while saying "And I'll bet you thought I was a lady," which reminds me of the grilled tofu-jalapeno-and-cheese waffles that thrilled my tastebuds this very morning, not to mention the cream cheese-and-spinach sandwich that played across my tongue this very afternoon, or even the crabs and artichokes that slid down my gullet this evening before I took by the shoulder, whispered "Let's go" into her left ear, and took her to an alley where I proceeded to dine upon her feminine treasures as though she were the dim sum buffet at the Silver Dragon Restaurant.

Who loves ya, w-lfs-n?

Oh, we've moved on from that. I've got nothin'.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:17 AM
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OT: If your name happened to be Ichabod, what would your nickname most likely be? Stuff like "Pumpkin Bait" doesn't count.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:53 AM
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!!!!1!!! ZOMG!!!1!!
For those of you don't subscribe to the paper version of the NYT, you'll want to run right out and buy a copy. Seriously. The article is on the front page of Styles and the photo takes up the entire top half of the page. (Actually a little more than half.) I thought it would be a little 3 x 3 photo on page 2 where they usually put this type of story.

It's worth the 5 bucks. Get thee to your nearest newsstand right now!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:07 AM
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Sigh. I know no one's going to read #355 for another 2 hours. I need someone to be all excited with me. I interrupted M/ in the shower (yes, yes, lowish hanging fruit), but he didn't show the proper level of enthusiasm. I'm cranked up to 11!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:13 AM
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354: I'd pick Ickey, because then you get your own end zone dance.

I suppose due to the NFL's vigilant policing, I can't find any game footage of him gettin' his Ick on. Bootsy Collins to the rescue!

Hooray, internets!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:21 AM
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I was in the Times before it was cool.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:22 AM
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Okay, I've calmed down a little. As #355 and #356 will not convey to NYT readers the jaded and world-weary esprit of the Unfoggedariat, perhaps they should be redacted and replaced with:

What the fuck ever.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:24 AM
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Espresso's a powerful drug.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:30 AM
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Nah, don't redact them. It's like, Old Dinosaur Media still works its magic!


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:31 AM
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The Ozarks wouldn't be a bad place to have a hiking vacation in late March, but I can't say it would be the best place in the world.


Posted by: hermit greg | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:31 AM
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Meanwhile, Unfogged fails to make this somewhat odd list of the World's 50 Most Powerful Blogs.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:41 AM
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363: WTF? Why is Strasblog not on there? We are outraged!


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:45 AM
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354 -- Ike.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 8:49 AM
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Immanuel Kant? Isaish Berlin plagiarized it?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 8:50 AM
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Ike, sounds nice
so it seems noone shows up except me :)
but i suppose it was the desired effect, right?
or to cheer you up, not hip-hop,
a girls band


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 9:02 AM
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355 is startlingly correct.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 9:24 AM
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354 - I'd say Icky, but I suspect it might actually turn out to be Bod. My 3 kids with 3 syllable names all lose the first syllable when shortening, but 'Cabod' doesn't sound very good. Ichabod's on my list of "unusable boy names", along with Obadiah and Cosmo (amongst others). I suggested it for the puppy we got last weekend, but was told no by everyone else.

355 - Wow! Erm, I mean, yeah, whatever.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 9:55 AM
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Obviously, you would be called "Acephalous".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 9:56 AM
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"Cabo"!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 9:59 AM
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369: What kind of puppy did you get, asilon?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 10:04 AM
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Hey Ben, I finally actually sat down and slogged through this post and was verily amused.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 10:37 AM
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I'd like it noted that I didn't just leave my pregnant wife behind, I also left her with a two-year-old to care for.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 10:57 AM
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Ichabod=>Bodhi


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 10:57 AM
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355: I was hoping that was where the story was going to be placed. Good to know the Times didn't let me down.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:02 AM
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Chopper!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:04 AM
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I submit that now is time to

1) post any and all photos that were received at the c-zero-c-k at unfogged email address, and

2) encourage NYT readers to submit their own photos.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:05 AM
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370: Come to think of it, I bear more than a passing resemblance to Johnny Depp.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:18 AM
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I bear more than a passing resemblance to Johnny Depp.

This seems an adequate excuse for me to mention the brilliant lines from Scott Walker's "Time Operator":

And I wouldn't care if you're ugly / 'Cause here with the lights out I couldn't see / You just picture Paul Newman / And girl, he looks a lot like me.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:22 AM
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368: My irrational exuberance has been seconded! Now ogged can't ban me, right?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:23 AM
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380: Exactly.

By the way, Gawker.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:25 AM
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1) post any and all photos that were received at the c-zero-c-k at unfogged email address,

While c0ck@unfogged.com no longer exists, I have just brought into existence g3nitalia@unfogged.com, which operates on similar principles.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:29 AM
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283 does not bode well.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:31 AM
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Icky if Ichabod is icky; Bodie if he's cool.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:31 AM
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382: Well, that was... predictable.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:31 AM
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382, 386: They should consider themselves lucky that post went up over the weekend. Flophouslings will now avoid most of the Gawker commenter wrath. (Unless of course Gawker does another post on Monday.)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:37 AM
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Only about 350 clicks from the NYT since the story went up. Kind of a lot, compared to a link in a Slate story some time ago, but a fraction of what you'd get from a link from even a medium-sized blog. Different audiences, different behaviors. Or it's true that nobody reads the Style section, at least not all the way through.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:40 AM
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Yeah, I was looking at the statcounter-- funny how this had such a small effect.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:42 AM
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Wait until Monday. I'd bet there are a fair number of people who'll be visiting the site once they get to work. (Hey! They'll fit right in!)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:43 AM
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By the way, Gawker.

Blog full of C-list gossip exactly as jealous as you would think.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:47 AM
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Yeah, I was looking at the statcounter-- funny how this had such a small effect.

Remind me to tell you how many extra copies of your book a review in the Times will sell.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:47 AM
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392: really? That's another thing I'd always assumed would have robust causal powers.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:50 AM
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393: Nope. Actually, based on the experiences of others in a similar position, I think it's an interaction effect with academic presses: Amazon sells out in a few hours, then it's "available in 4 to 6 weeks." So people of course don't buy it. No real sales bump unless there are copies in your local B&N that week.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:52 AM
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Not everything in the world that you look up to is my cock, Labs.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:54 AM
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Should we have an Unfogged Book Club with books written by commenters?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:54 AM
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Oh, so there's an effect on interest that doesn't translate into sales. How exciting!


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:54 AM
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NY Times readers are probably interested in swimming posts.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:56 AM
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You see, if people were planning agents, the effect would be stronger.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:57 AM
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I'd like it noted that I didn't just leave my pregnant wife behind, I also left her with a two-year-old to care for.

Me too! We keep it real, yo.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 12:08 PM
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Only about 350 clicks from the NYT since the story went up.

The monetization of Unfogged will be postponed another year. Ogged only needs $7,000 to buy his dream house in Elgin.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 12:10 PM
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So the Times provides a link for Unfogged and Catherine, but not the boys? Sexist!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 12:13 PM
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Alas, this is a slow time on Unfogged. Everyone is at church.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 12:39 PM
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The church of carnal desire, Will, where they're planting the seeds of divorce. Seeds which will go through the God-ordained stages of Hot Sex, True Love, Happy Marriage, Less-happy Marriage, Death of Desire, Miserable Marriage, and then the the Rebirth of Love via adulterous Hot Sex. Be patient. Your fruit is ripening.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 12:47 PM
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[pause symbol]

So I've received my most recent annual medical checkup results, and my doctor cryptically provides me just with numbers without explanation. HDL: 135. LDL: 84. Hm, a little googling tells me this is great, so great that I'm a little surprised. However, there is another number next to the category "Cholesterol/Triglycerides,"* to wit: 232/65. I cannot make out what this means. Is it triglycerides? What? What's with the ratio? Am I gonna die?

* No, I can't bring myself to put that comma outside the close quotation mark there. It looks weird.

[end pause symbol]


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 12:53 PM
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I see that the last hundred comments are by regulars. Unfogged: a black hole so dense that nothing, not even New York Times readers can enter.

I know all of you are too wise to read the comments at Saiselgy's, but a commenter there has hit on a funny conceit: they post as Sinbad, claiming that it was really they who solved the Kosovo refugee problem, not Hillary.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:10 PM
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Come on, Times-reading motherfuckers! We're ready for you. We're locked and loaded, and we ain't afeared of your kind.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:21 PM
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405: Your cholesterol is a little high (200 is top end of normal) and your triglycerides low (90 is the low end of normal).

I don't know how to interpret that, though.

Random internet source


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:26 PM
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IANAnM.D., but I think that's a ratio of total cholesterol to triglycerides, parsimon (Total cholesterol, in my experience, is always slightly higher than the sum total of HDL and LDL cholesterol.).


Posted by: NickFranklin | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:29 PM
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John, I don't think anyone worries about whether your combined cholesterol levels are over 200 anymore. The important thing is that LDL is below 100 and HDL is as high as you can get it. So Parsimon looks great.

I just got a checkup and received an 65 HDL and 85 LDL (iirc). The doctor said this was "fine". I think Parsimon is doing better than I am because of her good cholesterol score.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:30 PM
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Partly pwned by Emerson.

Part of the reason your total cholesterol is so high, though, is because your LDL number is very high. The ratio matters, but in and of itself, this is a very good thing.


Posted by: NickFranklin | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:31 PM
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Goddammit. Pwned by helpy-chalk, as well, who's right that HDL is the "good" cholesterol, which ideally, is associated with a high number.


Posted by: NickFranklin | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:33 PM
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So Parsimon looks great.

Rob,

Lots of really attractive people have bad cholesterol.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:34 PM
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My HDL is only96, but it's better than my LDL which is 70. Having an HDL which is higher than LDL is supposed to be rare, but I know of a fair number of women who have higher HDLs.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:36 PM
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HDL: 135. LDL: 84

Holy fuck, you're going to live to be 150. Your HDL is off the charts; anything in that range says "lucky genetic freak" and your LDL is fine (below 100 is what to shoot for, 70 is super-low).

You should ignore "total cholesterol" because it doesn't predict anything, and your triglycerides are fine (below 150 is normal).

Like I said, start preparing for 150.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:38 PM
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ogged is a retirement planner who wants you to invest with him.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:39 PM
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Times-readers! Can any of you compete with parsimon's excellent cholesterol levels?

I very much doubt it.


Posted by: felix | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:41 PM
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Long after all the other commenters have perished from old age and autoerotic asphyxiation, parsimon will remain, haunting the tubes of unfogged like some really old thing that you might have read about it a book somewhere or something.


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:49 PM
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Seeds which will go through the God-ordained stages of Hot Sex, True Love, Happy Marriage, Less-happy Marriage, Death of Desire, Miserable Marriage, and then the the Rebirth of Love via adulterous Hot Sex.

I'm reading American Cool, in which it's argued that the 20th century American emotional style is such that the Victorian's transcendent love, whether romantic or familial, has been replaced by a comparatively much less intense coolness favoring sexual and companionable compatibility over love (with a corresponding distaste for and suppression of expressions of anger, jealousy, fear, and other negative emotions), resulting in an increased willingness to just, you know, ditch people, move on.

It's interesting. The ascendancy of individualism not as free spontaneity but as atomism.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:50 PM
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Taylor runs a similar line in the unfortunately poorly-argued Ethics of Authenticity.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 1:59 PM
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So no actual lipograms were injured during the deployment of the auto-Timesblock (which appears to be holding). Good to keep the powder dry on those for real emergencies.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:01 PM
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413: I meant to say she is in great health, but was distracted by the memory of meeting her at The Party Which Was So Cool It Was Mentioned in The New York Times.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:04 PM
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409: Ah, thanks Nick. But wait, my triglycerides are 65 mg/dL? Isn't that really low?

415: Your HDL is off the charts; anything in that range says "lucky genetic freak"

To the extent that I blinked and reread a few times when googling for information; this must be a transcription error, for god's sake, I thought. If it's not, at least I won't die of heart disease. Maybe blood sugar, which is toward the high end. This is not making sense to me; shouldn't the triglycerides be higher if the blood sugar is?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:05 PM
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I totally agree with DS. That is very sad, but hey, that's life


Posted by: jeeper | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:08 PM
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the Victorian's transcendent love, whether romantic or familial, has been replaced by a comparatively much less intense coolness favoring sexual and companionable compatibility over love (with a corresponding distaste for and suppression of expressions of anger, jealousy, fear, and other negative emotions)

This is probably a good thing. The Victorian Transcendent True Love Always was a little silly.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:08 PM
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420: The Steams thing is sociology, my friend; it's arguing from the record, and has no normative pretensions.

The Taylor thing looks about as weird as Taylor has been for the last decade or so. I'm not seeing from the write-up on Amazon, anyway, how it's particularly continuous with the Stearns.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:16 PM
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I don't recall, actually, what normative pretensions Taylor might have in that book. A fair bit is descriptive.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:18 PM
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427: Just going on the brief Amazon reviews here.

I'm not dismissing the book, by the way; Taylor's always interesting.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:29 PM
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372 - BG, he's a Welsh terrier. (Flickr will show you thousands and they all look the same!) Called him Dylan in the end.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 2:32 PM
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about half as many over roughly the same period who have come from a google image search for Charlize Theron

I've read 429 inane comments and there's not a single goddammed picture of Charlize here!


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:05 PM
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425: The Victorian Transcendent True Love Always was a little silly.

I can't leave it alone! It's nothing to do with whether it's objectively* silly or not, it's just a question of how you've been socialized, baby; a matter of what you allow to resonate emotionally, what you resist or dismiss, what you make space for.

Those Victorians were a queer folk, eh?

* Yes, that's what I said. Damn, I should have been a sociologist, social historian, or cultural psychologist. It must mess with your head.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:07 PM
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When I first started meeting cool, liberated people, I was amazed at how quickly and completely people recovered when seemingly-very-intense relationships came to an end. "Oh, her?....."


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:21 PM
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What if instead of saying "a little silly" I had said "destined to set you on an unhealthy emotional roller coaster ride that is incompatible with long term happiness"?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:24 PM
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I totally agree with DS. That is very sad, but hey, that's life

Agree with me... about what? You mean you have the same lover I do?! You cad!


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:25 PM
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431: "destined to set you on an unhealthy emotional roller coaster ride that is incompatible with long term happiness"?

Unfortunately, the new solution doesn't seem to be all that much less bizarre and artificial. I tend to think that most of the New Cool's pretensions to emotional invulnerability are straight-up fake.

The reference to suppression of "negative" emotions that parsimon mentions is interesting. This is something I've noticed as an increasingly strong meme in daily life -- the conviction that if your spouse/partner/lover expresses "negative" emotions anywhere in your vicinity, there is Something Wrong With Them. It's pretty pernicious in a lot of ways.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:30 PM
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433: In that case, I'd say you're absolutely right, adjusting for contemporary understandings of what constitutes long-term emotional health and happiness. I'd reply that The Modern Transitional Love Not-Always is equally destined to set you on an unhealthy emotional roller coaster ride. And then see what you say about "unhealthy" there.

Please realize that I'm not championing the late 19th century conception over our own. Just that they're differing conceptions; also that our contemporary understanding goes hand in hand with a managerial style according to which intensity or any kind is, shall we say, deprecated. I'm trying to see us as we are.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:37 PM
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392: If you wanna sell books, you gotta get on Oprah. Even having a very widely read blog post a link to your book won't sell very many copies. Because Amazon/BN/Powells will sell out instantly, given that all three keep a stock of, at most, 15-25 copies on hand (unless you're Stephen King). And then blog readers apparently don't bother to actually look for the book elsewhere. Anyway, the book is a dead cultural form.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:39 PM
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This reduces marriage to a civil arrangement; one need only report to the proper magistrate that this marriage is ended and another contracted, just as one reports a change of domicile. Whether this is an advantage to the State I leave undecided—for the individual in question it must truly be a strange on relationship.

On the other hand, love is the glorification of the present.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:42 PM
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Ultimately the spouse role can be parceled out into different specialized roles. This was actually sometimes done in the old high aristocracy, in which the husband and wife often just produced children and appeared together on public formal occasions, with servants filling all housekeeping and home-maintenance roles, lovers filling the sexual roles, nurses raising the children, and personal friends providing the emotional support.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:50 PM
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435.3: the conviction that if your spouse/partner/lover expresses "negative" emotions anywhere in your vicinity, there is Something Wrong With Them. It's pretty pernicious in a lot of ways.

That's it. (Also, I hope it's not inappropriate to have a blogcrush on you.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:55 PM
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Also, I hope it's not inappropriate to have a blogcrush on you.

He's a Canadian, so yes, it's inappropriate.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 3:57 PM
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440: Back atcha. I will note that because I am Extremely Cool, I am not blushing furiously as I type this.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:01 PM
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it must truly be a strange on relationship.

Indeed.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:03 PM
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Wow, how did that "on" get there? Some sort of prolepsis, the second word after "relationship" being "one"? Bizarre.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:05 PM
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The Gawker link reminds me of something I've been wondering about for some time, apologies if it's been gone over before. Given that we're a little over a month away from MY's book being published, how many hatchet job reviews do people think it'll attract, and which publication will go for the most vicious one? I'm guessing TNR is the popular choice for the second question, but can think of other candidates as well.


Posted by: JL | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:07 PM
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442: So where do you live in Canada, again?

Uh. Meanwhile, Ben's 438 is either cryptic or glib: the interests of the State? Or advantage of the State? I can make up a story about this, actually, but it's a lot more cynical than I thought Ben was.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:15 PM
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McManus-type article from FDL.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:19 PM
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448

The two sentences of 438 are the opinion (mistranscribed, as has been pointed out) of Judge William, pp 23–24 of Either/Or, volume II, translated by Walter Lowrie with revisions by Howard A. Johnson, yours for $2.95 when it was published (by Princeton) in 1972, since superseded, or at least replaced, by the Hong & Hong translation.

The third, but for the "on the other hand", comes from Kundera's Ignorance, p 76; it's a perspective that William takes up and argues against (sinful!).

Personally I think William's on to something there, and that the reference to the state needn't be taken cynically or anything like that.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:23 PM
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"The two" s/b "the first two".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:24 PM
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Parsimon: The main thing I'm reacting against, I think, is the hint of relativism in what you were saying. It seems close to "What the Victorians did was good for them and what we do is good for us." As an intro level philosophy teacher, I am trained to seek out and destroy lazy relativism and push people to make normative statements.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:28 PM
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Different strokes, Rob. If you're against relativism, cool. Diversity is wonderful.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:29 PM
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Having said 450, I should note that mental health is probably a mean between Victorian hysteronics and modern love as consumer satisfaction.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:32 PM
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Other relativists might think that you should be taken outside the village and stoned, Rob, but that would be intolerant. In the worst case me might cage you and then take turns tolerating you 14-7 until you decide death is probably OK.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:38 PM
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447: This is why we have kids; we'll need something to eat when times get really tough.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:38 PM
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455

24-7


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:38 PM
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the Hong & Hong translation

I can sell you a copy of this even now, for like 10 bucks. But that's neither here nor there.

Goddamnit, Ben, I haven't actually read Either/Or or the relevant Kundera, but the latter, sans "on the other hand," sounds utterly Kundera and interesting. Blunt: splash!

I need to eat right now and can't think about this.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:39 PM
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I have read Either once and the first fifty pages of Or maybe three times. Lowrie's preface notes that Judge William is a wordy man.

William really does take up the (from what I understand) quite Kunderan point in Or, and spends more time with it than Kundera in Ignorance does. I can't say that I'm enjoying Ignorance, qua novel, terribly much.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:41 PM
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Lowrie's preface is really great, incidentally.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:42 PM
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447: You must be familiar with the Agonist.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:45 PM
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The main thing I'm reacting against, I think, is the hint of relativism in what you were saying. It seems close to "What the Victorians did was good for them and what we do is good for us." As an intro level philosophy teacher, I am trained to seek out and destroy lazy relativism and push people to make normative statements.

No surprise about the relativism worry. I tried to avoid suggesting the whole good-for-them, good-for-us thing. It's what I was after in mentioning that something that seems like mere study of historical trends, with as little normative stance as possible, is a novelty for me (as a philosopher by training).


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:46 PM
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I don't understand why relativism isn't correct. It's just contextualizing choices that after all cannot be separated from their social context. Certain disciplines (analytic moral philosophy, I'm looking at you) tend to want to strip away context, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should be constrained in like manner.

I got in a big argument once with a moral philosopher about whether moral truths would be different if people were social insects, like ants, but I think our premises were far apart enough that we didn't really understand each other.


Posted by: PerfectlyGoddamnDelightful | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 4:56 PM
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What if instead of saying "a little silly" I had said "destined to set you on an unhealthy emotional roller coaster ride that is incompatible with long term happiness"?

I think it's more likely to dissociate your emotions from "love" as adolescent roller coaster, as Emerson implies in 432. I also think that generally happens with experience anyway. The classic romantic characters in literature have experience with romance about equal to college sophomores today.

our contemporary understanding goes hand in hand with a managerial style according to which intensity or any kind is, shall we say, deprecated.

Well, we generally want to rationalize and moralize life. A social understanding which views it as a profound sin to do something as emotionally natural as punching your lover in the face when they cheat on you, let alone killing their adulterous lover, is going to distrust the intensity of the emotion involved in youthful romantic love.

Also, we want to integrate love with other social necessities, like marriage, kids, and waking up and going to work. Previous periods have been more willing to honor romantic love as a form of temporary madness which was incompatible with that stuff.


Posted by: PerfectlyGoddamnDelightful | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 5:08 PM
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Previous periods have been more willing to honor romantic love as a form of temporary madness which was incompatible with that stuff.

Or as an indulgence of those in a sufficiently privileged social position to not have to worry about it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 5:11 PM
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that too.

I've been noticing there are way too many adjectives in all my sentences. Overwriting.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 5:17 PM
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452: hysteronics?


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 5:20 PM
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If it weren't such a long and tired thread, I'd fear seeing 50 comments tortuously explaining why romantic love is impractical.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 5:27 PM
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then take turns tolerating you 14-7

What's the other 10 hours? Sleep? You relativists live a cushy life. No wonder you're so tolerant.


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:00 PM
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466:As something separable from lust, friendship, etc, I have long believed romantic love doesn't exist.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:04 PM
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A mistype (see 455). Only constant, unremitting tolerance can break a man. It's our most essential weapon in the war against decency.

People have the misconception that relativists are weak. On the contrary, we are fanatical and ruthless.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:09 PM
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Jesus! 500 comments and no one besides Lyn from New Orleans has stopped by? The old grey lady ain't what she used to be.

OT, writing a eulogy for my grandmother is proving difficult. For my grandfather, we realized it was easy because no one liked him anymore but we wanted to make Grandma feel good. Now she's gone, and she deserves a real knock-em-out, but I just have a couple sweet paragraphs and I'm stuck.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:21 PM
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470: Focus on recounting the facts of her life, and include an adjective in each fact that has a positive spin. Don't worry if you are painting a picture of the person you knew, or even a coherent person. You will still be painting a picture of her life as she lived it.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:29 PM
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465: 452: hysteronics?

A short-lived mechanical theory of love in the late 19th century that focused on the inevitable lag in the feelings of oneself and those of the object of one's affections.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:29 PM
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"hysteronics" got too few hits on google to be a real word, but google did not suggest an alternative, and I didn't feel like opening the software for Webster's 11th.

I'm certain there's a word there somewhere.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:31 PM
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Thanks, rob.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:33 PM
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Webster's 11th is telling me I should have said hysterics. I swear "hysteronics" is a word. I think my mom used to say it.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:33 PM
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How long do you want the eulogy to be, Wrongshore?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:34 PM
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I'm sure you were looking for 'histrionics'.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:35 PM
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475: I swear "hysteronics" is a word.

It is now.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:39 PM
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476: Not long. My mom's instructions are to write it about her as a grandmother, since that was how she most enjoyed her life. I think I got it in the first two paragraphs, which are mostly about the Michael Jackson bit here. But we spent a lot of time going over her biography, and I also want to acknowledge all the people who came out for her who aren't her grandchildren.

BTW yesterday I mentioned that she enjoyed the attentions of a music-thanatologist playing harp at her deathbed. Today, Chicago Tribune on music-thanatologists. Cool stuff.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:40 PM
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When a patient has only a day or two left to live, a music-thanatologist (from the Greek word for death) who plays a harp and sings or hums melodies can ease the final hours.

"It's not a concert, and we're not playing Bach," explained music-thanatologist Margaret Pasquesi. "We weave together musical elements in response to a patient's moment-to-moment changes with the purpose of alleviating physical, emotional and spiritual suffering, so the music is very individualized as the patient's respiration rate or agitation changes."


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:42 PM
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Holy crap, what a great idea.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:45 PM
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I told my surviving grandfather about it, and he seemed kind of excited. I suggested to my dad that he hook Papa up.

While the harpist attuned her playing to my grandma's breathing, my mom sat beside her and breathed along with her mother. She said it was unlike any other experience she'd ever had of music.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 6:49 PM
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482 comments and no one has been pretentious enough to allude to the fact that they got Ben's parody of Plato's parody of Gorgian oratorical style (Gorgias, 448c) - until now, that is.


Posted by: Chris | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 7:33 PM
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Looking up some things I wrote about love in a particular Victorian novel, it occurs to me that I just don't put a lot of effort into comments anymore.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 8:11 PM
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483: Well, other than Ben telling us in the Comity thread that he was writing the introduction in the style of Polus, but good catch.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 8:33 PM
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485: Oh. This is why I rarely comment here. Too much research required.


Posted by: Chris | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 9:08 PM
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486: Ah, don't let that stop you. I for one would certainly not have noticed it without the hint; it really was a good catch if you did not have that help.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 9:41 PM
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I'm just glad that it was actually apparent; I thought I might have filled it in with too much substance. I guess "experience ... experientially" is kind of a tipoff if you're familiar with the dialogue.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 9-08 11:39 PM
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I noticed.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 2:44 AM
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In my case the lack of noticing would have been due to my lack of familiarity of Gorgias not to any shortcoming in the post.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 4:43 AM
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I always try to read what Laura Rosen has to say:

http://www.warandpiece.com/

"The NYT takes note of the cool kidz, in all their evident geekiness. Spencer, Matt, Kriston, are all highly intelligent and thoughtful people and social friends, albeit more than a decade my junior. But you know, as I would tell them, I wish we didn't live in a world where youngsters in their 20s who have essentially done nothing are so rewarded for spouting their opinion on everything. They should go spend a year in Liberia or something or go beat blog a cops beat or something. The extreme narcissism of it all is not a gift, even as they are rewarded for it. It's not a phenomenon they created, but I wouldn't wish it for them."


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 7:36 AM
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Laura's usually quite thoughtful and astute. I'm puzzled by "so rewarded," though -- we must have really different perceptions of how much financial security and social status come with these sorts of pursuits.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 8:01 AM
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I agree that she is very thoughtful and astute.

Perhaps she meant the book deal? II was suprised bc it was a style piece, not a "greatest intellectual thinkers of our time" piece.

Didnt Ackerman go to Iraq? Maybe not for a year, but, at least for a while.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 8:06 AM
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And what's the criticism of Becks and Armsmasher? Should they really be spending their time following cops around?


Posted by: Zippy | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 8:15 AM
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I'm puzzled by "so rewarded," though

Are we seriously debating whether raising one's public profile is good for one's career in the media?


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 8:20 AM
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495: Ah, well, this is what I meant by different perceptions. Not everyone would agree that social and professional status is increased by an appearance in the Sunday Styles section.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 8:26 AM
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I think that there were comparable phenomena in Rozen's generation, maybe Kinsley or Sullivan. DeLong has crushes both on Yglesias and Ackerman. Capps is actually seems to be a fairly modest fellow, not a superstar. I think that those guys should take their good luck while they have it, while recognizing it for what it is.

Yglesias, Kinsley, Sullivan, and Hitchens have in common enormous quickness and fluency, connections and networking skills, and a pretty good sense of which way the wind is blowing (though the three elders are passe in that regard now). Good things, but not unambiguously good things.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 8:32 AM
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496: For example, a lot of unsuccessful people have nothing but contempt for the Sunday Styles section.

None of the Flophouse guys seems well-equipped to cut a swathe through DC's female community, which precludes their replacing George Will anytime soon.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 8:35 AM
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I promised myself I wouldn't go all Frowny McKilljoy on this one, but here I go anyway. The biggest problem with this article is that there's an actually interesting phenomenon to be discussed: namely, that DC bloggers increasingly know each other socially as well as online, which has implications for their online interactions as increasingly prominent left-of-center bloggers increasingly limit their interactions to people within or around their social circle. This becomes a problem because you tend to end up with a lot of commentary coming from people with a fairly similar background: youngish white upper-middle-class people with limited reporting experience. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with being youngish, white, upper-middle-class and having limited reporting experience, but when those people are largely dominating the discourse on the left-of-center blogosphere, that's a problem, and it's a problem that largely goes unremarked upon because of still-existing caricatures of the blogosphere as some giddy, free-flowing exchange of ideas.

Now, there's an obvious reason why the Times would write this as a fluff piece in the Style section - because print and TV journalism has so internalized intra-professional clubbiness that I don't think anyone at the paper would really find this dynamic a terribly noteworthy development online. That doesn't mean that judgment is correct.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 8:44 AM
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None of the Flophouse guys seems well-equipped

Have you seen Smasher's feet?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 8:51 AM
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Stras:

I think that I have mentioned before that one of the first things Witt said to me at Unfogged DCon was "Wow, this place is white!" Of course, Ogged wasnt there. But he is only one person (allegedly).

The biggest Unfogged arguments are typically about fairly minor differences of opinion.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 8:51 AM
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499: Not to mention the "such a nice person" phenomenon, where, for example, a schmibertarian "economist" gets a pass instead of the evisceration (metaphorical, ok?) she deserves because she's apparently real nice in person.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 9:05 AM
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I see no change. Connections, schmoozing and social set have always had a big role in the media / culture worlds.

The change I have noticed is that the mainstream has moved left for the first time since 1972. I started reading Yglesias when he was still in college, and when he first affiliated with TAP instead of TNR I was surprised. He had many TNRish traits 4-5 years ago.

Just to have single payer on the table at all is the most progressive thing since 1968. (1968-1972 was dominated by the Vietnam War; McGovern was very liberal, but the ending the war was everything.)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 9:13 AM
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499 is astute.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 9:20 AM
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Just to have single payer on the table at all is the most progressive thing since 1968.

In what way is single payer currently on the table?


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 9:22 AM
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499: If we get you a stand mixer, will you calm down?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 9:24 AM
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It's not a change, but it's a little creepy to see it played out so publicly.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 9:25 AM
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507: Actually, the fact that it plays out so publicly is probably a good thing--it's harder to assume an air of godlike impartiality.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 9:29 AM
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First, Stras, go fuck yourself. Second, single payer is being talked about by people who are players. It's not being dismissed the way it was in 1994. It's an issue in this year's Minnesota Senatorial primary, for example.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 10:02 AM
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499 is really key. I keep waiting for a revamp of the "where are all the women bloggers," kerfuffle, except one where the better-known blogs* start making a conscious effort to link more to non-white bloggers.

B and LGM are two that do this somewhat now. I don't think it's a very entrenched habit among others, though -- it's a new version of the same old familiarity schtick that leads the Washington Post to accept a piece by good old Charlotte Allen rather than, I dunno, some smart writer they've never published.

*Which are still pretty darn white.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 10:10 AM
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First, Stras, go fuck yourself.

Emerson, sweetheart, you need to get someone to take a look at that.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 10:41 AM
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has so internalized intra-professional clubbiness that I don't think anyone at the paper would really find this dynamic a terribly noteworthy development online

Has? Actually this clubby dynamic has existed for 300 years, since the beginnings of the popular press. The downside is that duh, news/publishing/periodicals are *businesses* (even blogs), and the successful titles are going to be the ones run by the folks who are ideologically, socially, and educationally best equipped to be successful running their sites as businesses. The upside is that while this is true, it is *also* true that there are plenty of people who aren't in that group who *do* have access to the means of publication--you just have to make a point of looking for them.

That said, of course the educated white guys (and those uneducated/brown/women who speak the language) are going to dictate the terms of the discussion. Which sucks and is unjust. But I suspect it's an unavoidable fact of Our Modern World.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 10:49 AM
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It's an issue in this year's Minnesota Senatorial primary, for example.

And I'm glad for that, but the freshman Senator from Minnesota probably won't be the one to put single-payer on the table in 2009. If the US ever gets national health care, it's going to come with a policy set by the White House, and none of the major Democratic presidential candidates proposed anything close to single-payer this year. The most widely-read center-left health care columnists and bloggers in the country have embraced the conventional wisdom that single-payer simply isn't doable in America; Ezra Klein has said, over and over again, that the chief lesson from 1994 is that the private for-profit insurance system has to be left intact in any kind of successful UHC plan, and he consistently reflects liberal conventional wisdom on this issue. No one at the reins of power in the Democratic Party is seriously considering Medicare For All.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 10:54 AM
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Ezra Klein has said, over and over again, that the chief lesson from 1994 is that the private for-profit insurance system has to be left intact in any kind of successful UHC plan

This was done in Britain in 1946. Didn't stop Medicare for all.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 11:07 AM
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514: I didn't say I agreed with Ezra Klein, or that the current (non-single-payer) proposals from Clinton and Obama would kill any hope for single-payer. I only said that Klein's view reflected the current center-left consensus on health care policy, and that no one with a major position of power in the Democratic Party was pushing single-payer.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 11:25 AM
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Fuck you again, Stras. I used to think that I agreed with you about a lot of things, but then I realized that you're just someone whose random opinions are vividly expressed.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 11:29 AM
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Every club has its clubbiness, so 499, paragraph 2, is not a big deal or surprise.

But 499, paragraph 1, needs to be discussed at length, because if bloggers really want to be an alternative to the mainstream media (rather than find a different route [career] into the mainstream media)* then talking to each other** doesn't really help the "limited reporting experience" angle. Compare the Flophouse to Josh Marshall from TPM, also recently featured in the NYT, who won the Polk award for "tenacious investigative reporting" - not just a pundit! (Of course I am exempting Spencer Ackerman, who actually does reporting.)

* I guess this point is moot if the bloggers under discussion are just using blogs as a platform to jump into the mainstream corporate punditocracy. Which they are, Ana Marie Cox.
** For example they all talk to each other, exclusively, on Bloggingheads.tv, and it makes for a really weak show. Compare that to Bob Wright, who brings in tons of guests, besides going head to head with the awful Mickey Kaus every week.


Posted by: Ron O'Neal | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 12:46 PM
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499 - waht!
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/9215?in=00:04:02&out=04:13


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 12:52 PM
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social friends, albeit more than a decade my junior.

Knecht's friend?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 12:56 PM
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Is there some meta/cool/ironic reason why it's okay that BW spelled 'accommodate' wrong?


Posted by: Constant Lurker | Link to this comment | 03-11-08 11:15 AM
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That was a mistake.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 12:36 AM
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