Re: The Let-Obama-Win Movement

1

Funny, when I say I hope we deserve an Obama presidency, it means just the opposite.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:53 PM
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But, see, we can all come together in the conviction that an Obama presidency is what God wants for America!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:56 PM
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1: they certainly deserve an Obama presidency.

On the other hand, can you imagine how fucking loony they would get if they believed this was the great evil ushering in the end-times? The black helicopter/form militias/stockpile white babies memes would return with incredible force.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:59 PM
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On the other hand, can you imagine how fucking loony they would get if they believed this was the great evil ushering in the end-times?

658,000 Google responses so far.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:01 PM
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I do wonder if any of the crazies will calm down should Obama get elected, or if we're going to hear arguments that not invading Iran means we're sucking at the teat of the whore of Babylon.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:04 PM
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I have a feeling that Huckaboom might have picked this thread up from the, um, netscribes. My grandfather's been banging the America-gets-the-Antichrist-it-deserves script for a month at least.

It is pretty incredible that the right's come forward with a more-in-sorrow-than-in-righteous-anger brand of millenarianism. God is concern trolling!


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:04 PM
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5: no on (a), yes on (b).


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:05 PM
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The American people aren't even close to deserving an Obama presidency. They deserve more Bush, the fucks. And so do I.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:06 PM
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9

Novak, though.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:08 PM
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10

Can we have a thread about the Goldber g interview of Obama on Isreal? Kthxbye.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:09 PM
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11

Sweet.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:10 PM
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But, see, we can all come together in the conviction that an Obama presidency is what God wants for America!

God DAMN America !

Comity !


Posted by: Rev. Wright | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:11 PM
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OTOH, on Google Suggest, "is obama the antichrist" is not a suggested (presumably suggested=common) search, whereas "is obama the messiah" is. There's also "obama antichrist glen beck" and "obama antichrist hagee", but no "obama antichrist" by itself.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:11 PM
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They've been called racially derogatory names (including the white volunteers).

White volunteers? But they don't even deserve it.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:12 PM
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I love the blog. Chronicling the day-by-day evidence that Obama is the AntiChrist. I am tempted to start trolling it.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:12 PM
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The first comment from 11:

I think he is. Two years ago, I was brushing my teeth one morning and a voice told me just as plain as day, "Barack Obama is the antichrist." I didn't even know who he was at the time.

I read things like this, and it makes me fall in love with America all over again.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:13 PM
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Christ, I've been reading too much Luther. Nobody deserves more Bush, not even Bush. And me? I deserve fucking cupcakes. I deserve someone making dinner for me tonight.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:17 PM
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I was a freshman at BYU when Clinton was first elected. The next day, I saw at least a dozen students wearing black armbands. Over the next couple of months, Mormon folklore stories implying the nearness of the End Times came back into circulation. (My mother told me one over Thanksgiving dinner that year -- happened to a son of a friend of hers or something, honest!)

These religious Republicans really think that any Democrat getting elected is a sign of the nation's wickedness and its imminent smiting. A black Democrat with a foreign name is going to make their heads explode. Hope for big margins in Congress if you want the Democrats to get anything at all done in 2009; the Republicans will be foaming at the mouth.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:17 PM
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I am tempted to start trolling it.

There's no way the Lord would have made it this easy to unmask the antichrist. I suspect that Obama is just a decoy to conceal the fact that John McCain is the real antichrist.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:18 PM
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My dad used to go on about end times stuff when I was a kid. He's mellowed out since then.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:19 PM
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I like how they elide over the letter count in his name to make 675 into 666. He should just go by Barack Hussei Nobama to make it easier. Or Ronald Wilson Reagan, for that matter.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:20 PM
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I'm just astonished to see that with an actual right-approved Antichrist in the race, so much attention has been paid to McCain and Obama.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:20 PM
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16: I was just about to post that. I love it.

Mom and I were having one of our very short conversations about race and politics, during which we find a couple of things we agree about, and I was glad that she mentioned she thought Obama's success was a good sign for race in America, even if she doesn't support his policies. I mentioned how the internet is full of fringe groups accusing him of being the Antichrist or a Muslim or, even more strange to me, just wailing on about how awful it would be to see a black face in front of the presidential seal. She claims not to be aware of any of these people.

Since she's a Baptist Republican, I actually imagine she knows plenty of these people, but I am at least glad to know they're too ashamed to talk about it openly. They all go on the internet to say their stupid-ass racist shit.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:20 PM
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via yglesias

ahem


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:20 PM
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25

Isn't the End Times supposed to be a good thing? Like, hastening the Kingdom of Heaven and all?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:22 PM
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'Smasher, stop wasting your time with these unimportant politics and write something about Rauschenberg so I can sound smart if he comes up in conversation later.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:23 PM
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ahem

People read the comments?

I'm not convinced that blog is in earnest. It has a "blowing nose" category.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:23 PM
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28

25: But let them sleep, Lord, and me mourn a space
For if above all these my sins abound
'Tis late to ask abundance of thy grace
When we are there; here, on this lowly ground
Teach me how to repent, for that's as good
As if thou hadst sealed my pardon with thy blood.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:24 PM
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29

16: Taking care of dental hygiene, neglecting epistemic hygiene.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:25 PM
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30

Is that some kind of psalm?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:25 PM
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28: That's really quite soothing.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:25 PM
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26: I have not one but two obits due for Wednesday editions. Why do you think I'm hanging around here?


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:26 PM
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Can we have a thread about the Goldber g interview of Obama on Isreal?

10: My first thought was that Obama had somehow been snookered into an interview with Jonah Goldberg. Which would be hilarious, actually. "In other words, Senator Ofascist, under your presidency Americans could be given hugs by members of Hamas even if they didn't wanted to be."


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:26 PM
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about Rauschenberg so I can sound smart if he comes up in conversation later

"Bob had such a groundbreaking sense of form and materials. It's really too bad about teh gay."


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:27 PM
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Jeffrey Goldberg is only slightly less mendacious and slightly more nefarious than Jonah.

Am I allowed to call Jews mendacious? Why do all these Jews keep mendacing my cock?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:27 PM
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36

It probably looks like it needs the charity.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:29 PM
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37

31: I memorized that particular sonnet when I was 14 out of salvation anxiety. It was very cooling to my soul.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:29 PM
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38

Am I allowed to call Jews mendacious? Why do all these Jews keep mendacing my cock?

The mendacious ones may menace your cock, but it's the mordant ones you really have to beware.


Posted by: Ardent erader | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:32 PM
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My poor father has reached such a point of fatigue with his fellow believers that the only reaction he can muster to the latest pro-war or anti-Obama rubbish is a long, sobbing sigh.

It is the sound he would make if he were teaching the entire country to drive and I the country had forgotten to release the parking brake.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:35 PM
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The mendacious ones may menace your cock

http://www.vagident.co.uk


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:39 PM
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41

One experienced, credible activist in Christian politics who would not let his name be used told me...

Richard Armitage?


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:40 PM
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30: Naw, it's Donne. The first eight lines are:

At the round earth's imagin'd corners, blow
Your trumpets, angels and arise, arise
From death, you numberless infinities
Of souls, and to your scatter'd bodies go
All whom flood did and fire shall o'erthrow
All whom war, dearth, age, agues, tyrranies
Despair, law, chance hath slain, and you whose eyes
Shall behold God and never taste death's woe


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:41 PM
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43

AWB, you're still going to hell, you know. Sonnet or no sonnet. It's those carnal desires.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:42 PM
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44

Donne had carnal desires too, you know.

License my roving hands and let them go
Behind before above between below

etc.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:43 PM
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45

They sure do write pretty though.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:43 PM
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46

41: Surely Richard Reed. He has no place within a McCain administration, but he probably thinks that he'd wind up as Secretary of Sacrament in Huckabee's world order, even given his corruption charges. He seems like he occupies the right intersection of bitter and incensed.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:43 PM
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47

Was Donne a Whiskeypalian, or did he follow the Whore of Satan? I can never tell those evil sects apart.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:44 PM
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48

46: You mean Ralph Reed?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:45 PM
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49

Dean of St. Paul's, dude.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:45 PM
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44: He wore it well, though: "Take heed lest these sins carry thee farther, than thou intendest: thou intendest but pleasure, or profit; but the sin will carry thee farther; Quaeris quo? says that father; Dost thou ask whither? Ad cor durum, To a senselessness, a remorselessness, a hardness of heart: Nec pergas quaerere, (says he) quid illud sit; Never ask what that hardness of heart is: for, if thou know it not, thou hast it."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:46 PM
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51

Richard Reed

Surely I'm not the only one who read that as Reed Richards, and found it plausible.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:46 PM
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52

51- I read it as the shoe bomber, but admittedly because I hate God.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:48 PM
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53

47: You do know he was serious about it, right? Have fun mocking the dead.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:49 PM
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54

We tend to mock the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:51 PM
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55

We tend to mock the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me.

You could consult one of those people who channels spirits.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:53 PM
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56

Emerson is such a Roundhead.

Donne was born into an RC family, but later converted to the Anglican church.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:53 PM
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57

I can't be the only one who is driven fucking mental by sentences like this one from the WaPo: "For all the hope and excitement Obama's candidacy is generating, some of his field workers, phone-bank volunteers and campaign surrogates are encountering a raw racism and hostility that have gone largely unnoticed -- and unreported -- this election season."

Gee, whose fault is that? And could it have any possible connection to "Hussein!", "Madrassah!", "Farrakhan!", "Crazy black pastor!", or "Can't win normal people's votes!" Nah, it's just one of those weird coincidences.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:55 PM
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57: We all hate those awful newspapers, but the existence of American racists predates the Post's editorials in support of the invasion of Iraq.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:56 PM
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59

54 is a deep thought, yes?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:57 PM
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60

Weirdly, the United States isn't mentioned in biblical prophecy, because they didn't realize that this hemisphere even existed!


Posted by: Zippy the Comment Frog | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:57 PM
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License my roving hands and let them go
Behind before above between below

I love this one. the rest isn't etc, though:

O my America! my new found land
my kingdom safest when by one man manned.

It turns out there are no audiobook Donne sermons, no audiobook Juvenal. I have negative organisable free time, but this seems like such an opportunity.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:57 PM
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61: I can do the whole thing from memory. My favorite erotic poem? Why yes. The Caetano Veloso song of it is great, too.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:59 PM
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63

I didn't know this until today, but Robert Rauschenberg looked a lot like Kevin Drum.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:01 PM
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It turns out there are no audiobook Donne sermons....

A small market, surely? (Which is not to say that I wouldn't be part of it.) They are really, really long and really, really ... Jesus-y, in an impassioned and allusive style quite alien to pretty much every stripe of modern Christian.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:01 PM
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I didn't know this until today, but Robert Rauschenberg looked a lot like Kevin Drum.

Is this going to be in the obituaries?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:02 PM
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66

Clearly, we can't nominate Obama. It would only whip the right wing into a frenzy all over again.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:03 PM
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67

Not good enough, B. Troll harder.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:07 PM
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68

I've been pimping The Authoritatians all over the place so I might as well do it here.

It's free although I paid for a copy because I want to support this kind of thing. I used to have a vague idea about what made the Leviticans (TM) tick but this book explained it all in great detail.

I also used to cut these people some slack but now that they are trying to run my country I can't do that anymore.

And in case anyone cares I consider myself a Christian and try my best to use Christ as my example but I know this is an article of faith and I don't argue it and I don't proselytize. I am definitely not an authoritarian and I think many of the people who call themselves "Christians" do not really follow Christ at all.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:07 PM
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Weirdly, the United States isn't mentioned in biblical prophecy, because they didn't realize that this hemisphere even existed!

Unless maybe it's described in Revelation 18:

"The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more-- cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men. They will say, 'The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.' The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn and cry out: " 'Woe! Woe, O great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls! In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!'

Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:08 PM
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70

62: Is the Donne thing you've got an instilled or chosen memory?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:08 PM
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It would only whip the right wing into a frenzy all over again.

And clearly, nominating Hillary would do no such thing. Seriously, these people can dramatize anything as the coming of the End Times. Apparently God is really easily swayed into ending the world by the election of black people and/or women who are interested in things like health care.

That's what I don't get about the Christian right these days. They seem to believe their God is this weak-willed namby-pamby who gets really freaked out about everything that happens except for genocide and rape. Homos kissing in public? Sex ed? Taxing the wealthy? Movies with boobs in them? God is fucking outraged.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:09 PM
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67: That was dry sarcasm, Bave. Do Mormons not have sarcasm?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:10 PM
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59: I like to think that all of my thoughts are deep. I'm not here at Unfogged just to waste time, you know.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:10 PM
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74

Tripp!


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:11 PM
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70: Totally voluntary. I don't have a super-seductive language of my own, so it's handy to be able to whip out "Come, Madam, come, all rest my powers defy / Until I labor, I in labor lie..." Plus, I teach a lot of Donne and I always memorize the poems I teach. Makes class go a lot more smoothly.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:11 PM
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Tripp! FTW!


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:11 PM
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77

I think that if B asked people to suck her bloody pussy more often, she'd get more respect. That's pretty fearsome trash-talking.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:14 PM
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AWB, you braggart. Donne rhymes. Rhyming poetry isn't that hard to memorize.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:16 PM
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79

Tuesday on Fox: bitchphd makes her network debut on I'll Troll Anything!


Posted by: Ubu Imperator | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:19 PM
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80

art. Donne rhymes. Rhyming poetry isn't that hard to memorize.

Yeah, really. Try memorizing this. Now that's a challenge.


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:21 PM
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81

I hereby declare a moratorium on newbies accusing me of trolling. Kids today: no respect.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:22 PM
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82

As someone with an--at best--smells-and-bellsish religious upbringing, the whole end times stuff is absolutely alien to me. I was fascinated by it as a kid because of all the horsemen, rivers of blood, etc., but I can't remember it ever being a subject of religious discussion. I think the idea that adults took it seriously would've shocked me as a kid, like finding an adult who knew a lot about superheroes, or Saturday morning cartoons.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:22 PM
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83

People are pretty free with accusations of trolling. I hereby present you with a lifetime achievement award, B, so maybe people will lay off for a while, now that you have recognition.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:23 PM
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Oh yeah, that's gonna help loads, Ogged.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:25 PM
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81: Look, it's either accuse you of trolling or grade these undergraduate bibliography papers. I think the choice is clear.


Posted by: Ubu Imperator | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:26 PM
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86

People talk about trolling as though it were a bad thing, rather than an art form.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:26 PM
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85: Get with the grading; I'm going to go ride my bike. Neener neener.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:27 PM
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On the refresh, however, I'm obliged to lay off and congratulate you on this singular honor. Papers ahoy!


Posted by: Ubu Imperator | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:27 PM
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89

Minnesota is in the Northwest, by the way. Further west are The Far West (a.k.a. The Barren Quarter) and the Pacific Coast. The South begins in central Iowa.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:28 PM
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82: When I was a kid, no one in my church wanted to talk about the Revelation, but I did, and read it all the time. I'd ask questions, and was told that was stuff we don't guess about because that's God's business, and trying to make guesses about it was blasphemy and vanity. Then they invited some guest preacher who talked all about how the "locusts" were actually helicopters and blah blah blah and everyone got all entranced with the stuff. Then the sensible smart preacher died and was replaced with a hellfire-spouting radio evangelist and everything went downhill from there. The preacher they have now spends just about every sermon talking about how higher education is ruining America, and God is pissed about it, and how God goes and cries in a corner every time a homosexual gets a handjob or whatever. I keep trying to point out how distant all this is from the doctrine of the church I grew up in, but everyone thought the smart sensible preacher was "boring."

Frankly, I think a lot of the new End Times talk is just about turning the Christian church into one big CGI movie about shit blowing up. Far more fun than actually reading the Bible or learning about humility and compassion. Where's the entertainment value in that?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:29 PM
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83: Fuck B.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:30 PM
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89: Actually, by a geographic quirk, the south begins in western Iowa.


Posted by: Ubu Imperator | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:30 PM
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93

Just to get that out of the way,


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:31 PM
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94

Do Mormons not have sarcasm?

Only the wet kind.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:31 PM
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95

Revelation is the ugly stepsister of Scripture. Not sure how it made the cut.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:33 PM
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96

Mmm, moist, chewy Mormon sarcasm.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:33 PM
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97

95: Sexist.


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:34 PM
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98

82: Is it any weirder than any other religious belief? I get anxious that some cataclysm or other is going to destroy our civilization, and were I at all religious I can see that being translated as "God is setting the stage for the apocalypse".


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:34 PM
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I don't think I get 94.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:35 PM
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100

I'm going to go ride my bike. Neener neener.

Now she's really trolling.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:35 PM
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97: At least I'm not anti-gingerist.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:35 PM
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I don't think I get 94.

It's a Mormon thing. You wouldn't understand.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:36 PM
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90: I learned that the locusts were gas masks, because poor St. John of-the-magic-mushrooms would not have known that he was seeing people, not giant bugs.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:39 PM
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98: Yes, it is. There is a difference between "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Dragons will eat your family". I exaggerate, but not by that much.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:39 PM
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103: I suspect ergot.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:42 PM
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83: The only reason she's getting that award is that she's a woman. McBobbus is a much more earnest troll, but since he's a white male he had to drop out of the race.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:45 PM
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107

Well sure, it would be an atypical experience, but these are people who believe all sorts of fables actually happened.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:46 PM
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108

Unfogged is now #2 in the Google results for "Barack Obama Nicolae Carpathia". Here is the first.

I think that if B asked people to suck her bloody pussy more often, she'd get more respect. That's pretty fearsome trash-talking.

If you like to suck pussy, that has limited threat potential. I don't like it when sex acts are used as threats anyway. Sex should be happy and fun!

I was a freshman at BYU when Clinton was first elected. The next day, I saw at least a dozen students wearing black armbands. Over the next couple of months, Mormon folklore stories implying the nearness of the End Times came back into circulation.

Seriously? Jesus. Other people scare me.

Also: Ronald Wilson Reagan. 6 6 6.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:49 PM
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Sex should be happy and fun!

Go fuck yourself.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:49 PM
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Is [Revelation] any weirder than any other religious belief?

It's definitely weirder than the rest of the holy scripture. The canonical New Testament (in contrast to the old) does not contain a lot of prophecy. There are the Gospels + Acts, which purport to be historical (even if they include descriptions of miracles), and the Epistles of Paul, which were written to a specific audience with specific questions in mind, then some miscellaneous theological tracts (James, 1/2 Peter, 1/2/3 John, Jude). In that context, the acid trip of Revelation really does stand out.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:50 PM
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When it involves other people. Masturbation is always a little lonely.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:51 PM
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111 to 109.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:51 PM
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111 clearly to 110.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:52 PM
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111: Masturbate, masturbate, prophesy, masturbate.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:53 PM
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PGD flaunts his problems. We should just be polite.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:54 PM
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I was a bad Christian before, but let me make it official: Paul can go fuck himself.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:54 PM
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Masturbation is always a little lonely.

I've never understood this cry, cry, masturbate, cry thing. One of my best friends has joked about it for many years, and then there was that Herbal Essences for Men parody in which all the men are making man-orgasm noises and Horatio Sanz is miserably weeping. I've never heard of women crying while masturbating. It's always made me feel great. Like, it's the anti-cry.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:54 PM
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If one believes in powerful beings who interfere in worldly events is it that much crazier to believe they are behind things like nuclear war, global warming, etc.
Clearly, it's more bizarre to believe in demons devouring your entrails, just as it's more bizarre to believe in a literal interpretation of scripture, but the added end-times belief doesn't seem to add any weirdness.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:55 PM
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114 was probably a typical day for John of Patmos.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:55 PM
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I've never heard of women crying while masturbating.

If you rent Mulholland Drive, you can actually watch Naomi Watts do it.

It is a sight that produces fucked up conflicting emotions, just like you would expect from Mr. Lynch


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:57 PM
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(link)


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:57 PM
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On reflection, sex can also be dark, Gothic, and Wagnerian. That's fun too!


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:01 PM
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120: This is true, but, as Zizek (I think that's the right part) has claimed, Lynch has a lot of strange anxieties about female sexual desire.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:01 PM
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The post says not just that Obama-as-antichrist is popular among some, but that his presidency is therefore welcomed. Okay, then!

Understanding the born-again movement is one of those things I've wanted to do for quite a while and never get around to delving into. Obviously there's a hell of a lot out there written about it, but one becomes impatient. No doubt the John Hagees of the country have a lot to do with it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:02 PM
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Lynch has a lot of strange anxieties about female sexual desire

I thought that was a legal requirement for being a famous arty director.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:04 PM
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120: Naomi Watts is an actress.
117: It's the canonical answer to the question, "What do you plan to do for Valentine's Day?" Zippy the totally not a different old time commenter Frog got a lot of credit for saying it and then admitted he'd stolen it from The Onion.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:04 PM
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126: Actresses get sad too sometimes.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:08 PM
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I don't know from zizek, but the cry-cry-masturbate-cry is the pivotal scene in Mulholland Drive, which is a fucking great movie.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:08 PM
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125. Both Tarkovsky and David Lean are possible counterexamples.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:08 PM
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124: Understanding the born-again movement is one of those things I've wanted to do for quite a while and never get around to delving into

The book I link to in 68 is a pretty good (and fast) read.

The epiphany for me was finding out how irrational and compartmentalized some people's minds are and also how the "born-again" thing means "you don't have to learn nothing." Make a mistake, confess (privately) to Jesus, all is cool. No guilt. No remorse. No learning. Just all happy happy fun fun.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:11 PM
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And if you rent it, do watch it more than once. I had to watch it thrice before I got the intended plot.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:11 PM
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129: I suggest Catherine Breillat.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:13 PM
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Frankly, I think a lot of the new End Times talk is just about turning the Christian church into one big CGI movie about shit blowing up.

You're missing the other important part, which is the cargo cult belief that, Matthew 19:21 to the contrary, Jesus really wants Christians to be rich. One part parable of the talents, two parts half-understood witch doctoring, I guess.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:13 PM
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130.3 describes traditional catholic theology, not American Evangelical churches.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:13 PM
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Oh and to the "Tripp!!" people - hey!

I was away planting trees in Kenya for awhile but back now. Alas, I could not save the world but I did make a little difference.

Wow has this place gotten popular! I can't keep up with the flow, it is like a firehose!

This place is really rocking!


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:14 PM
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This place is really rocking!

Well, it slows down as soon as work hours end.

But you should come to the parties too. Then everyone could say "Tripp!" in person.

The link in 68 was great, BTW. If disturbing.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:17 PM
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how the "born-again" thing means "you don't have to learn nothing."

Yes, what I've read about large-scale churches these days, those that seem more like shopping malls, multi-purpose social service and meeting places, suggests that they'll provide for your needs (as you conceive them) while supporting a 20th, or 21st century comfort with televised messages and consumer sensibilities.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:19 PM
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Good on you tripp. I'm usually available to rant at off hours. There's also a fellow from the UK whom I earlier failed to insult, and a honest to God Dutchman as well, so you should be well covered. I'm in favor of trees.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:22 PM
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let me make it official: Paul can go fuck himself.

That's an awfully harsh verdict on the guy who gave us guilt-free bacon.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:24 PM
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This place is really rocking!

And on ~1.5 kidneys, no less!


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:25 PM
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Traditional Catholic theology is guilt- and doctrine-free, fm?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:26 PM
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Some Donne on audio here. I haven't listened.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:28 PM
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And on ~1.5 kidneys, no less!

One and two-thirds, bitch.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:38 PM
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Traditional Catholic theology is guilt- and doctrine-free, fm?

Fm must be talking about that diet version that they market under the label 'Catholic Lite.' 50% Less Guilt! and Zero Grams of Trans Fat per Serving!


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:42 PM
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I do so fret about the calorie count of the Eucharist.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:43 PM
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141: I'll let the Catholics amongst us instruct us here, but my experience has been that guilt, as a sensation, tends to be assumed, but as a matter of faith, is justified by confession and penance. Doctrine, though, there's no end of that. Pardon my protestant understanding of the Catholic faith.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:45 PM
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I think you mean the Kyrie count.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:47 PM
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Fm must be talking about that diet version that they market under the label 'Catholic Lite.' Episcopalian.

Fixed.


Posted by: Ubu Imperator | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:52 PM
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In theory Catholics have to go to church twice a year, but the actual rule isn't as strict as that. It's also important to confess your sins on your deathbed,


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 3:59 PM
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I've just started reading this book. The description of medieval Catholicism (which is as far as I've gotten) is pretty interesting.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:01 PM
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I may be introducing heresy here, but 147 deserves a rimshot.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:03 PM
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That's a really good book. I think I still need to read the last section.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:03 PM
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I do so fret about the calorie count of the Eucharist.

I know, right? But transubstantiation means it counts as a protein not a carb, I'm pretty sure.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:05 PM
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MacCulloch is the best book you could possibly read on the subject. Email me if you want a)further reading or b)dissents. A fine work.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:07 PM
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That's a really good book.

Yeah, I'm liking it a lot. It's really long, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:07 PM
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134 missed the part where 130 notes the "confess (privately) to Jesus." BIG difference between a brief, "Sorry, Jees" and "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned."

At least, for you sinners.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:08 PM
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Email me if you want a)further reading or b)dissents.

Thanks. I don't think I'm going to be ready for any further reading any time soon, however.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:08 PM
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143: And on ~1.5 kidneys, no less!

One and two-thirds, bitch.

What do you have against base 7.5?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:09 PM
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Are there Catholic vegetarians?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:09 PM
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159: St. Francis of Assisi probably wasn't a vegetarian, but is nevertheless now revered as the patron saint of liberal fascism.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:19 PM
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143: And on ~1.5 kidneys, no less!
One and two-thirds, bitch.

less or left, i did not get
i've read somewhere that liver is a very adaptive organ, even if only like 10-15% of it functions, it still like fully functions, it even regrows, if other parts of it are removed
about kidneys i'm not sure, it's really great that you swim and do everything
i know someone, my mom's friend, she got her one kidney removed too, i think it was not cancer, may be trauma, i forgot, and she lives fully active life now more then 40 yrs after operation


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:20 PM
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Kidney tissue does not regenerate the way liver tissue does, liver tissue is unusual. I don't know whether this is solely due to hepatocytes, which are hypomethylated, or whether a more complicated organized expression regulation mechanism exists.

Thanks for the Donne link in 125; I had seen those, no sermons, but I hadn't noticed the interesting lecture on the holy sonnets.

Aquinas was supposedly enormous, though no mention of the custom-reinforced pulpit I've heard of here, are there fat vegetarians? The Chinese buddhists I know take a strict line on meat, and are all skinny.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:32 PM
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I've known several fat vegetarians.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:33 PM
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Yes, there are plenty of plump, tender vegetarians to be found. Not me, though, man, I'm tough as old boots.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:36 PM
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Of course you can be fat as a vegetarian! Depends on whether you're vegan; dairy can do you in. Also lots of carbs. Then there's something they call exercise.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:39 PM
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it's really great that you swim and do everything

It's almost like he isn't disabled.

Almost.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:41 PM
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There are fat vegans, too, let me rush to assure you.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:42 PM
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I've heard, though I can't be sure, that there are scrawny meat eaters as well.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:45 PM
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obese people i think it's not just a lifestyle, it's a disorder, some suggest viral origins
something goes wrong with the gut microflora
the only obese person on our floor, does not eat that much, after her it's just impossible to go to the restroom, b/c of the air, so i think it's really gut microflora
if to cleanse it properly and restore its normal pattern may be overweight people will start to loose weight


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:49 PM
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after her it's just impossible to go to the restroom, b/c of the air, so i think it's really gut microflora

Science!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:53 PM
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old boots

Lay off the bottled water, or you'll end up with arms like Madonna's, is my advice.

Is the other thing they say about vegetarians true? (sweeter, um, secretions).

There is a guy who recommends stool transplants, to reboot the gut, as it were. Treatment for particular disorders, not yet a fashion trend.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:54 PM
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Science!
observation


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:57 PM
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166: It's almost like he isn't disabled.

170: Well, physically at least.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:58 PM
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There is a guy who recommends stool transplants, to reboot the gut, as it were.

Isn't this what the appendix is for?


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:58 PM
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I'm a fat vegetarian. I get lots of exercise, eat very balanced meals for the most part, don't eat sweets almost ever, and I am most certainly overweight. I wouldn't be so glib as 165 about it. I've been this size, exactly, since I was 12, before I became a vegetarian.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 4:59 PM
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"Mom, will you buy me some Weight Gain 4000?"


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:03 PM
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Is the other thing they say about vegetarians true? (sweeter, um, secretions).

Oh, yes.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:06 PM
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Digestion, metabolism, and nutrition are all so complex, and in many ways really surprisingly (to me; I may be easily surprised) under-understood.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:06 PM
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175: Sorry -- of course my 165 was glib, knowingly so.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:09 PM
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"reboot the gut" sounds like something Tom Cruise would say while staring intensely at you.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:11 PM
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We really don't understand most of it. We know that the weight one is has something to do with what one eats, something to do with how much one exercises, something to do with what one's metabolism is like, something to do with bacteria in the gut, and in all of those somethings are 1000 counterexamples.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:13 PM
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Read's totally right about this. Well maybe not the connection to odoriferous flatulence, but the gut microflora. They carry out a lot of the "digestion" of foods. One reason things like Weight Watchers can be counterproductive is that some people can derive 50% more fat storage from a given food than other people can, depending on what the gut bacteria are capable of. So talking about things literally in terms of the "calories" of energy they consume is not enough.

The gut microflora change when you change your diet, too. I think eating the same thing all the time leads to building up more and more bacteria which can break down that thing, leading to more efficient energy intake, leading to weight gain. Also, things that are mostly very simple molecules, like Twinkies, get taken in as energy more efficiently, so they make you even fatter than the caloric content would suggest.


Posted by: Fatrman | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:16 PM
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I'm skinny because I'm beautiful.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:18 PM
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I know! It's boggling! And at the same time, just think of all the stuff we do know about what's going on in there (while still not-knowing as much as we do). Biochemistry is amazing.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:18 PM
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How can you be the same size as when you were twelve and still be "fat"? This does not make sense. Am I misunderstanding the sense in which you mean "fat vegetarian"? Do you eat only vegetables and fat?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:18 PM
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"rebooting the gut" is a reasonable thing to consider, as well.

Some organs can't be rebooted, but for those that can, it's often a way of treating a disease. Like the immune system, in diseases like lupus and rheumatoid arthritis that involve B cells constantly producing antibodies against the body's own tissue. These B cells should be deleted in the lymph nodes/spleen, but for some reason they aren't. Wiping out all the B cells except for the ones at very early stages in development can produce a clean slate, and then they are regenerated without the self-reinforcing clones of auto-reactive B cells.


Posted by: Fatrman | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:20 PM
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174 i just thought that may be appendectomy and obesity have some correlation coz appendix has a lot of lymphatic tissue and involved in immunity
not sure whether there are stidies on that
http://www.medindia.net/news/Appendix-Acts-as-a-safe-House-for-Beneficial-Bacteria-in-the-Human-Gut-27622-1.htm


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:20 PM
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Women often reach their full height at or soon after the onset of menarche, and not all kids are thin.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:20 PM
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185: I was a really pretty fat kid. I grew into my height looking better than I did at 12, of course, and I weigh more, but my shape stays pretty much the same. I'm not unhappy with it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:21 PM
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How can you be the same size as when you were twelve and still be "fat"? This does not make sense.

Maybe she was fat when she was twelve.


Posted by: Fatrman | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:23 PM
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I'm certain that I'm not losing any weight since I started biking, but I'm definitely more hourglassy. Which is much tthe same thing that happened the last time I started a Real Exercise Program, weirdly.

What made me thin, weirdly, was having a fat baby.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:23 PM
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185: There are plenty of reasons that don't involve scarfing down fat that might explain why someone is overweight. Off the top of my head, history of dieting and/or eating disorders, thyroid conditions, and just plain ol' genetic predisposition.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:24 PM
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I'm certain that I'm not losing any weight since I started biking, but I'm definitely more hourglassy.

I guess you are losing fat and gaining muscle.


Posted by: Fatrman | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:25 PM
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I think I'm just getting strong enough to stand up straight, actually.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:26 PM
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191: Probably putting on some muscle.

I am heavier than I was when I entered graduate school, but the same weight that I was when I graduated from college. I stay within a fairly narrow range; when I'm not exercising, I lose weight. When I am, I go back to my college weight.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:28 PM
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What made me thin, weirdly, was having a fat baby.

Was this some sort of weird alchemical human-to-baby fat transference?


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:29 PM
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Per what read said, I've recently read that the supposedly functionless appendix actually stores intestinal bacteria, which are necessary for health.

Feces is mostly dead bacteria. Each of us has over a quadrillion bacteria in our gut, almost all of them dead. (To put that in perspective, the national debt is only a few trillion.)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:30 PM
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Obesity setoffs.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:31 PM
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I believe it was the combination of nursing a greedy child on demand and carrying him around Seattle on foot. Later on, getting depressed and not eating much also helped.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:31 PM
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196: We normally call it 'breastfeeding.'


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:31 PM
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188: Yeah, yeah, I know, but they do mature, and pubescent/adolescent body structure is different from the mature. Trust me; I've raised pigeons.

Besides, I've seen pictures of of the elusive subject in which she looks normal, and nothing like a twelve year old. If you are having problems with yours, I suggest a diet of corn meal and evaporated milk.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:32 PM
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197: Another way of looking at it. You have more cells of other species in your body, than you have of your own. (Microflora, bacteria etc. have much smaller cells.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:34 PM
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Cala wins on concision and snark.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:34 PM
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161: read, in 140, "no less" is an idiom (meaning, roughly, "surprisingly" or "against expectations") and not actually about the kidney count. If you hadn't caught on, ogged has had part of one kidney removed in an overly elaborate attempt to gain sympathy.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:37 PM
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197, like the link in 187?
if i were a gastroenterologist i would propose that appendectomy and obesity study coz on pubmed i did not find any, all are on appendectomy procedure in obese patients, not its epidemiology
may be it would have some meaning
great, Unfogged now give me ideas on melanomas :)


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:38 PM
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good, i've been worrying that Ogged has now 1/3d of one kidney and thought like how he lives?!


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:40 PM
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ogged has had part of one kidney removed in an overly elaborate attempt to gain sympathy. excuse to resume blogging.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:41 PM
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In other news which you don't want to hear, I saw the most openly sexist thing I've ever had the displeasure to hear last night: a local news commentator expostulating at length about how Michelle Obama would not tolerate a "unity ticket", on account of how she couldn't deal with another woman so close to her man. This went on for five minutes, no shit, and included appeals to "ladies who agree with me." And when they cut back to the anchor, the guy said to the girl, "I think you know what they're talking about"; "I sure do," she said, " and now in weather...." I wasn't pissed at the time: I honestly thought it was some kind of parody. but for fuck's sake it wasn't.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 6:01 PM
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Lovely.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 6:02 PM
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Obama and Clinton getting it on? Talk about a hate fuck.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 6:05 PM
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If it were Fox News or something I wouldn't be so shocked. But the Celtics lost and I was just waiting for fucking Seinfeld (which was a decent episode). And I get that?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 6:07 PM
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Cala wins on concision and snark.

Cala always wins. And deservedly so. 200 is truly funny.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 6:11 PM
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I belatedly concede that I have no working conception of human biology.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:12 PM
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174: "What's passed is prologue".


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 11:03 PM
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Incidentally, what's with trousers in sizes that bear no relation to reality? I just bought 2 pairs of jeans in the same size as the ones I was wearing, and they are absurdly, Spencer Ackerman wearing his girlfriend's jeans, arsegrindingly tight. This leaves two possibilities: 1) I've gained ~2 inches of waistline overnight. 2) Somebody's altered the definition of their sizes in the last 6 months. 3) Something else, so strange we cannot even imagine it.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:38 AM
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208: Clearly, the anchor's wife has issues with the commentator, which the commentator was passive-aggressively airing before the entire viewing audience.

Or the commentator's husband works with some tart who wears skimpy little skirts.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:42 AM
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Somebody's altered the definition of their sizes in the last 6 months.

Are they the same cut as the old jeans?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:43 AM
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Possibly not. You may have a point. But it feels more fundamental than that - fundament being the right word.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:53 AM
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what's with trousers in sizes that bear no relation to reality

I have a 36 waist, but I have both 36-waist pants that cannot be worn without a belt and ones I can barely button.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:43 AM
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Pants are unique snowflakes too. Quit trying to force them into a cooky-cutter mold. Let them express their idividuality onyour ass, and don't complain.

"I'm not like all the other 36s! I'm me!"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:47 AM
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They seem to be improving as the day wears on; the fabric is practically stiff with dye, so perhaps there's some room for adaptation.

(Further, I can understand how the manufacturer might want to let the sizes slide fatward, so as to let their customers go on deluding themselves, but the opposite? What are the incentives here?)


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:58 AM
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Keeping you confused and unhappy, just like they do with women's clothing. It's an annoying trend, when one is used to the idea that numbers are connected to things you can measure.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:41 AM
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Feces is mostly dead bacteria. Each of us has over a quadrillion bacteria in our gut, almost all of them dead. (To put that in perspective, the national debt is only a few trillion.)

And to whom do we owe all these dead bacteria? Whoever it is, why don't we just send them a person filled with feces?


Posted by: Fatrman | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:42 AM
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