Re: Dear Clothes Makers

1

Even the one-piece swimsuits are designed for people who are made for bikinis?

Howunfair.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:27 PM
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2

I need a new one, badly, but I'm picky.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:28 PM
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3

figleaves.com, girls. One can order via bra-size. There are even some attractive styles.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:30 PM
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There are these. You have to search for "modest" swimwear.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:30 PM
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5

What I really want in a swimsuit is a modest two-piece: sportsbra-esque top, and a brief that comes up to my waist and covers my ass. They were in style for about a week and a half in 1990, and I loved them. Tankinis suck.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:31 PM
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I wear deeply unstylish old-lady suits from Lands End, and I like it, by cracky! The sundress thing is a problem, though, regardless. Oh, how cute and kicky this dress is. Whoops, how unfortunate that June is busting out all over.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:31 PM
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You have to search for "modest" swimwear.

Seems like one step away from "Christian Swimwear." And surely there must also be "Armor of God Swimwear." I will leave it to others to google these terms.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:32 PM
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8

Here you go, ladies.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:32 PM
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4 - But I don't want anything that covers up that much! There are some that cover up, but only in a matronly, no skin at all exposed way. I want in between, which you used to be able to get. Just a bit more fabric and (more importantly) some goddamned support.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:32 PM
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10

Listen to Cala and ignore the boys.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:34 PM
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The things in 4 don't seem to "cover up" any more than the typical one-piece swimsuit. They're just blousier instead of being simply skintight.

the one at the top doesn't look like a swimsuit at all.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:34 PM
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Seems like one step away from "Christian Swimwear."

Yeah, actually; I know we've linked to one of those Christian swimsuit sites in the past, but I can't find it. Cala's site looks promising.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:34 PM
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13

Some goddamned support.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:35 PM
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14

I do usually solve this by ordering from catalogs but that makes me resentful, as I usually have to order a bunch of different styles and sizes and return the ones I don't want, costing me return shipping.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:35 PM
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Incidentally, though not faced with swimwear issues, as a preternaturally pasty white guy best suited to fall catalog sweaters and leather coats, yet living in a desert region where shorts and tight t-shirts are de rigeur, I sympathize.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:35 PM
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16

Free return shipping from figleaves. (At least there was the last time I ordered.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:36 PM
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17

Becks shows both moral clarity in the case for liberal internationalist intervention in the face of catastrophe and neglicide and in her summer outdoor aesthetics.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:37 PM
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18

Ooh, I think I might look nice in this. Possibly too risqué for the Baths.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:37 PM
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19

Though I have not found swimwear I like in my size, I should say. I hate one pieces, and want support, and then all the bikinis look like bras. This is my current favorite prospective purchase, but I'm having a hard time justifying it because I don't think I'm likely to go to a pool this summer.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:38 PM
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20

18 - Dude, you've gone topless in the Baths.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:39 PM
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21

Topless is pedestrian; red ruffly stuff is seductive. Midwesterner.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:40 PM
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22

All set with my porn shorts.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:40 PM
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23

Somehow, I imagine sexy swimwear to be even more troubling than nudity, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Like, topless is all "Fuck you, here are my tits." Swimsuit is like "Doesn't this make you want to look right at my tits?"


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:41 PM
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Freya is good, but fwiw, my experience is that their bra tops run a little small, so you might want to order one cup size up.

All this said, if anyone happens to come across a 50s style bikini (i.e., one with a bottom that actually rises to the waist and covers the post-c-section mama belly, ahem) in a size 32DDD? Feel free to let me know; I've been searching for years.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:42 PM
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25

Nothing but thigh-high boots and a necklace: nakedest of all. (Wristwatch optional.)


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:42 PM
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26

The Flophouse has a new black vinyl couch. I can already imagine the sucking sound as Smasher, clad in porn shorts, tries to peel his sweaty thighs off of it come August.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:43 PM
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24: Thanks for the heads-up. I also like this one.

I need to find reasons to go to a beach.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:45 PM
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28

23 is of course right (25 is a corollary), but I thought one went totally nude in the baths anyway?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:46 PM
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29

Lepel Fever sounds like a tropical disease.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:47 PM
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30

Those porn shorts ought to be reason enough, Cala.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:47 PM
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19: Bra-style tops are fine, but you can also get halter tops with underwires.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:47 PM
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32

Tankinis suck.

Agreed. For a brief moment, I thought they were the answer. But they're not.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:49 PM
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33

There's always the SI Swimsuit issue for inspiration.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:49 PM
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34

I thought one went totally nude in the baths anyway?

And I'll bet you thought about it a lot.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:50 PM
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35

What's the case against tankini, besides the ridiculous name?


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:50 PM
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36

Body glove? I remember a girl at camp when I was 15 who had a suit by them that was quite modest except for the window in the middle of the chest. Very cruel.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:50 PM
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37

Tankinis do indeed suck.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:51 PM
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38

I've been wearing an unfashionable speedo suit for a while. The La Blanca Greek plunge suit (I think it was black somewhere else) looks gorgeous, but I can't imagine that I'd feel comfortable wearing it, and I wonder how much support it provides.

The Figleaves site tries to offer suggestions based on the type of figure you have. The trouble is that I can't figure out what sort of figure I have. I think I'm sort of hour-glassy, but I have really small shoulders which (I think) are narrower than my hips. But it's not like I have wide hips, and I don't think I qualify as pear-shaped. Plus even though my shoulders are small, I do have a chest.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:51 PM
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39

And I'll bet you thought about it a lot.

I really thought a lot about birching her.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:51 PM
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35: They claim to conceal flatteringly, but instead they cling tightly and offer no boob support, so (well, me, at least), look like a species of particularly saggy, lumpy sausage.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:52 PM
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One of the things that has made me very happy about moving to a CA beach town is realizing that women who live in CA beach towns actually tend to wear bikini tops with board shorts (men's style trunks, iow), which is an awesome solution to the belly problem, imho.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:53 PM
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38: I think with this site if you have a defined waist and boobs, you count as hour-glassed.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:54 PM
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28: On co-ed days, one must wear some kind of bottoms. Tops are optional. I've never wandered all around the joint without a top, but I do nudify a bit for the platza, which means (horrors) going out into the icy plunge pool sans boob-coverage.

I like tankinis and am sad no one's making cute ones anymore. What's not to love? It's like a swimsuit, except you can pull it up to tan your belly if you want and you don't have to struggle with a whole wet suit when you need to pee.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:58 PM
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44

41: And to the thigh problem.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:58 PM
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45

41: It is a pretty good solution, but the 50's style suit sounds more glamorous to me.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:59 PM
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46

The belly problem, the thigh problem ... I am getting the sense that the word "problem" isn't doing much work here.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:00 PM
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47

I used to wear a halter bikini top and some cute girl's swim trunks, but I can't remember where that outfit is. Hm.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:00 PM
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45: Well yes, but I cant find one. Plus the board shorts, you dont actually have to match. Really, its a revelation.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:00 PM
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49

The trouble is that I can't figure out what sort of figure I have.

Trinny and Susannah can help you! They identify 12 different shapes.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:01 PM
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50

I think it's been at least six or seven years since I bought a swimsuit. I kind of like Lands End, but I realize most people don't.

I have a friend who swears by Athleta, but she's pretty modestly built.

OT: I had to buy a wedding gift online in March. The website-ordering was awkward, the gift ended up backordered (and half of it was canceled), and today at the drugstore my credit card got declined.

I call the credit card company, where the sympathetic lady tells me that the company where I bought the gift in March has been trying to charge my credit card FIVE TIMES A DAY since April 20. They haven't e-mailed me, they haven't called me, and now my stupid card is blocked.

I call the company. West Coast, but even so customer serivce is already closed for the night. I send them an e-mail from the link right on their user-unfriendly website. It bounces back immediately. Why? BECAUSE THEY THINK GMAIL IS A SPAMMER.

When I get somebody on the phone tomorrow I am going to start by saying that I wanted to make a disaster relief donation and I couldn't because of their stupid shenanigans. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

/rant off


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:01 PM
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46: Sure it is, pasty desert boy. I like my stomach. I dislike my thighs. (Blah, blah, body image issues, blah blah, shove it.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:02 PM
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I remember my mom telling a story about how a girl at our local pool would come in this stunning white swimsuit---totally gorgeous plain unlined white swimsuit. And then she'd dive in the pool and come out looking utterly nude. My mom assumed she did not realize this, but as an adult, I know better.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:02 PM
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53

pasty desert boy

Indeed. But! Now with age spots on face.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:06 PM
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54

MC, that site is great, both for the very blunt descriptions, the number of descriptions, and the non-glamorous models.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:07 PM
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53: I have a friend of similar ancestry as you who described hoping, upon leaving Ireland, that he would discover the ability to tan once he lived in an area with actual sunshine and learned that, alas, he just broiled pink.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:08 PM
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except you can pull it up to tan your belly if you want

I would never want to do this. And anyway, my skin doesn't really tan (but very quickly burns). I'm sure the tankini works for some women, but for me, it just doesn't do anything to solve my problems.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:09 PM
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57

Now with age spots on face.

SUNBLOCK SUNBLOCK SUNBLOCK.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:09 PM
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58

I got a really smashing red one-piece Calvin Klein from Marshall's. It's a halter-top, which I've sometimes found a bit problematic (breasts up, sure, but don't drag down my neck!), but it has a kind of embedded shelf bra that magically doesn't look stupid. I've gotten precisely one opportunity to wear it so far.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:09 PM
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MC, that site is great, both for the very blunt descriptions,

Yeah, they're a bit bossy and opinionated. But they want to help! and their advice is good.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:13 PM
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60

SUNBLOCK SUNBLOCK SUNBLOCK.

I wear sunblock almost every day of the year. It's probably one of the main reasons I am still alive out here.

Learning about this debate


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:13 PM
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I love that swimsuit, JM, and want to get one just like it, but that would be lame.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:14 PM
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60: um, link ate the rest of the sentence. "... has made me want to flee the region."


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:14 PM
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FWIW, Gonerill, I've found that CosMedicine stuff actually seems to help fade the sunspots. If you can bring yourself to spend money on face creams and stuff.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:15 PM
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The belly problem, the thigh problem ... I am getting the sense that the word "problem" isn't doing much work here.

It has a function equal in importance to the word "question" in such phrases as "the labor question" or "the eastern question.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:16 PM
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Go ahead, AWB! I don't think it'll be so easy to find the same swimsuit---it was I think last year's model?---but I'll bet that the general idea would look rocking on you. On Becks, too.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:16 PM
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64 continued: "


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:16 PM
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59: It's the combination of 'you can look gorgeous, but let's face it, X is not your best feature' that makes me grin.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:18 PM
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60: Aw, crap. Zinc oxide it is, then. Dammit.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:18 PM
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Holy smokes, that link in 60 is depressing.

On the other hand, I wore an ugly hat the whole time I was in Arizona, so I'm probably safe.

As long as we're talking about hats, does anybody have any recommendations for a good place to get women's hats? I know we did guys' hats recently. I really miss my extremely cool Grace-Kelly-in-To-Catch-a-Thief-hat and would like a new one for this summer.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:19 PM
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The Trinny and Susanna site does not seem to include an option for "narrow shoulders and upper body, but big chest". BostonianGirl must be unique.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:24 PM
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71

Here's a good site about cosmetic safety, which includes a lot of info about sunscreens, btw.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:26 PM
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72

BG is just a petite hourglass. (A minute egg-timer?)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:27 PM
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I think that I might be a petite lollipop, but I'm not sure. I have a hard time finding evening gowns which fit, though, which makes me question that designation.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:29 PM
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74

The lollipops have skinny legs, and the hourglasses have full thighs.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:31 PM
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75

she'd dive in the pool and come out looking utterly nude

And made the world a better place every single time.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:32 PM
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75: Why is she showing me that? I don't need to see that. How does that help me?


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:33 PM
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77

I'm somewhere between a vase, a cornet, and a lollypop, and I'm okay with that.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:42 PM
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78

Well here's a full-length picture, but I'm wearing a skirt, so you can't really see my thighs.

What do you guys think?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:44 PM
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79

Petite hourglass or a vase.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:45 PM
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80

(Also: hott.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:45 PM
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81

I think you'll have to show us a picture without the skirt before we could make any real evaluation, BG.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:45 PM
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82

I'm somewhere between a vase, a cornet, and a lollypop, and I'm okay with that.

Oh, that's the well-known vascorlollinetopop shape.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:45 PM
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83

I'm not sure having twelve analogies is better than having three.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:49 PM
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84

I was thinking that I might be a vase too.

80: That's not what I was asking, but thanks.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:49 PM
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85

BG, I'd say you were a lollipop. That's a great photo, btw.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:51 PM
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86

Also, none of these 12 shapes really talk about asses. Women are described as having flat asses or broad hips, but never sticky-outy asses, the kind Ian Fleming invariably referred to as "jutting."


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:53 PM
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I got an affordable bikini top from, of all places, The Gap! And not those triangle stupid pastie things! A top that came in bra sizes, so I was able to get a 34C and not be totally flattened or totally flashing the world my nipplage. It even has underwire, so that I can be struck by lightening more easily in the pool. Belle tested, Dude approved.

I checked just now though--alas, no longer available. But I do recommend buying bra-style bikini tops, not triangle tie ones, and also buying the one pieces in a size bigger. This looks pretty good, as does this.

I like actual swimming brands usually, like Jantzen or Malia Mills or Anne Cole. Try the "Full Bust" suggestions at Nordstrom.

For sundrseses I avoid halters and spaghetti strap everything, and opt for v-neck or scoop neck jersey dresses or the JCrew beach embossed cotton shift dress, which is high-neck. But I have to order a size up because of the boobage and thick-middle-age. They are at least somewhat decent and still temperate options, although w-lfs-n will probably complain that my necklines are too low still.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:54 PM
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88

In this one at the same party I look weirdly tall.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:54 PM
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89

I like that J. Crew beach shift dress.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:56 PM
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90

I like it, but it would look wrong on me.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:58 PM
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91

It is refreshing, as summer dresses should be.

Strapless dresses do not work on me, alas. Halters look good on those with petite shoulders, and mine are round and kind of broad for my 5'2" frame. Sigh. Halter tops scream "summer," while my shoulders sigh "but not for me."


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:59 PM
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Apparently my senior-year-of-college girlfriend pulled the white swimsuit move famously in high school, and was somewhat famously revered, boob-wise.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:59 PM
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I am going to Steve and Barry's this weekend. Everything is $8.95, and supposedly they monitor their productions strictly for sweatshop conditions. So I am excited about the prospect of guilt-free summer dresses in bold prints that will probably make me look fat. But for only $9!!


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:00 PM
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That dress wouldn't do me any favours, but I would like it on someone else.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:02 PM
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95

Ooh, I like this, and it costs half what the earlier one I linked to does.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:02 PM
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96

Wait, really? Steve & Barry's is not sweatshop labor? But how $8.95?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:03 PM
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97

I have never heard of this Steve and Barry's. Where is it located?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:03 PM
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98

Oh, wait, that's 98 for the top, 54 for the bottoms. Nevermind.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:04 PM
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97: Everydamnwhere. And no sweatshops. Some of their stuff is crap, but that's true of stuff you pay a lot more for, too.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:05 PM
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http://www.steveandbarrys.com/ for stores.

This may be my wishful thinking that I want to believe this article, but:

"In 2006, they began offering more fashionable designs in partnerships with Mr. Marbury, Ms. Parker and other celebrities, thereby changing the look and concept of the stores, but not the underlying business model that relied on an obsessive attention to costs.
Mr. Shore and Mr. Prevor, dressed in chinos and rumpled shirts, frequently described the company as "the Google of fashion" and rattled off several ways they had devised to make a high-quality product at the low prices. The clothes appear to be well made -- several of the Bitten dresses, made in India, were lined, and the strapless dress Ms. Parker wore is constructed with an internal elastic band to hold it up. And the basketball shoes appear sturdy, although they are made with fake leather (well, so are Stella McCartney's).
Steve & Barry's saves big, for example, by opening stores in underperforming malls, where the owners are more likely to negotiate rents and offer other incentives; by building its own bare-bones store displays; by maintaining only a small public relations office in Manhattan; and by manufacturing in countries like China, India, Madagascar and more than 20 others, including the United States.
Though the prices will raise concerns that the clothes are made in sweatshop factories that underpay or otherwise exploit workers, Mr. Shore and Mr. Prevor said absolutely not.
Howard Schacter, the company's chief partnership officer, said Steve & Barry's monitors its subcontractors carefully and demands ethical business practices. The key to its low prices, he said, is a razor-slim profit margin.
Then, too, Steve & Barry's doesn't advertise, but rather relies on word of mouth.
Steve & Barry's also saves small -- for example, by using discount hotels, like Motel 6 and Econo Lodge, for travel, assigning one printer to 50 employees and myriad other ways."


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:06 PM
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Also, waaay back to AWB's suit that she linked to: I tried on one like that today and you have to be seriously perky to pull that off. First, since there's the low plunge, they can't build in a good bra and second, to prevent the top from blousing out when you move, the cups are really smooshy. While the idea is hot, I ended up looking impossibly droopy.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:09 PM
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Halters look good on those with petite shoulders

Huh. I have square shoulders with some overdeveloped muscles in weird places, but I'm pretty sure halters look okay on me. It's the gravitational pull on my neck that I dislike, not the look.

The rules people come up with for fashion! (I am SO guilty of similar pronouncements, Belle.)


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:09 PM
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I can't believe that this is the only active thread, and it's on-topic. I have nothing to say or learn from this!

Oh, hey, locals: Iris and I will be on channel 2 tomorrow morning to promote Pedal P/ttsburgh. Should be between 9 and 9:30.

Indiscreet, obvs, but whatever.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:09 PM
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the company's chief partnership officer, said Steve & Barry's monitors its subcontractors carefully

I'd feel a lot more comfortable with this assertion if it were made by a third party, preferably a workers' rights group.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:10 PM
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I used to shop at Forever 21, and feel bad, because they do not pay their workers minimum wage. I boycott Abercrombie and Fitch for their puttin' the coloreds in the back stock room and the waspies in the front (not to mention their offensive T-shirts). The lead plaintiff of the A&F suit came to speak to my employment discrimination class. F21 is pretty bad. Because I did not choose the big firm route, I am looking for cheap shopping alternatives that aren't evil, and it is hard. I mean, I'm a grad student, and can't afford the stuff I linked to. But even if I had money, most of those places use sweatshop labor. It's really hard, and consumer boycotts eventually wear you down and really constrain your choices.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:11 PM
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106

I like the idea that one might try to think of one's extreme features as something to emphasize. Like, sure, I have a really nice neck, and I want to emphasize that. But I also have a big ribcage. Why not emphasize that, too? It's me as much as my neck is.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:11 PM
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Oh. Steve and Barry's in Massachusetts is only in malls in the distant suburbs that are completely inaccesible by public transportation.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:12 PM
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This is a really good documentary.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:12 PM
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Hmm. Steve and Barry's stores surround Boston in an enormous circle, at all the malls you've never even heard of.

On preview, they must be the underperforming ones.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:12 PM
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even if I had money, most of those places use sweatshop labor. It's really hard, and consumer boycotts eventually wear you down and really constrain your choices.

Agreed. Even more so if you are also taking into consideration things like material (natural fibers or even organic natural fibers), distance of shipping (online ordering: good or bad fuel efficiency?), etc.

Sometimes I split the difference and shop at consignment stores. You're still creating an aftermarket for sweatshop labor, but you're not giving the companies direct profits.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:15 PM
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102: I think it's a me thing, JM, meaning my own body hangups. I feel conscious about my shoulders, since most Asian girls have tiny petite bird frames, and I'm big boned for my height and ethnicity. So I put on a halter top and think "Whoa that's a lot of shoulder to expose!"

I guess it's like if you were really conscious about your legs, and wore a mini-skirt. I rock mini skirts, and except for the weird breeze up my ass (seriously, can't get over that), I don't think I look too outre. But too much shoulder! Ack!


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:15 PM
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Leave it to an enlightened nation in the Middle East to find the best solution to all of the "problems".


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:16 PM
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None of the linked body-shapes look significantly more like me than any other. Where are the women with short waists and heartily oversized ribcages to model myself on?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:16 PM
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I often think that women who are "big" in any area tend to be ogled more than thin, small women. Big shoulders? Gawk. Big hips? Gawk. And I participate in it, too. Just last weekend, I totally objectified this big tall Amazon woman for no reason. Gave her my phone number, though. Rowr.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:17 PM
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I went to Walmart because I was dying for eyedrops, it was open, we were driving through some random town off of Napa. I felt AWFUL. But my boyfriend says "don't feel personally responsible for violating a consumer boycott."

He's probably right. There's more work you can do than just consumer boycott, which is the mildest form of resistance (not insignificant, but requires critical mass). Sigh, back to activism and scholarship and trying to revise the NLRB and DOL guidelines, and of course Title VII...


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:18 PM
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What's your thinking on ribcages, Bear?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:18 PM
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This covers up all flaws.

I prefer the culottes. They're for the more active swimmer.


Posted by: chellie | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:19 PM
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I hate dress sizes. Because of my boobs and the fact that my rib cage/midsection is maybe one inch smaller than my hips, I am columnar and must buy dresses a size or two bigger. Then you feel like a fat girl, and then you feel bad for even thinking of yourself in terms of labels. Arrrrrghhh.

I have a big head. I celebrate that by wearing hats.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:20 PM
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I often think that women who are "big" in any area tend to be ogled more than thin, small women.

This explains my life.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:20 PM
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There's more work you can do than just consumer boycott...like proactively buying from companies that support the same things you do.

Right now there is a surge of new very-young people in my life, so I'm becoming a big fan of KidBean.com.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:20 PM
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Also, LB, have you tried googling "triathlon swimsuits" or variants? I did that and found a few things that looked like what you were talking about. A lot of them are more sporty than femme/flowery, but they look the cut you want.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:20 PM
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Mine is bigbigbig. Don't know what to do about it. I've discussed this before, in that I have a hard time finding button-downs that don't gap at the chest if they fit in the waist, and it's not because I have huge tits.

In the big picture, I love my big ribcage. It gives the appearance of giant tits, though I'm barely a C cup, and makes my waist look a lot smaller than it is. Buying clothes is a bitch, but I tend to find, per my 106 and 114, that having a bizarre feature is deeply sexy.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:21 PM
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122 to 116


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:21 PM
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A few weeks ago, I went to the Tenement Museum and took a tour which focused on the garment industry circa 1900-1920. What I hadn't realized is that there are still, in that same Lower East Side neighbourhood, several hundred sweatshops in operation today.

There may be a few exceptions, of course, but in general, cheap clothing prices = low wages for the garment workers.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:22 PM
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Witt: I love, love Patagonia. Excellent employer. Also, amazing outdoor gear and even casual clothes!


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:22 PM
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I don't know how one would tell if one had a giant ribcage. I guess that means I don't. Or I do, but that my giant boobs are the more prominent feature of that area.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:22 PM
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It's probably too late for the rest of you to emulate AWB's "strenuous singing/bone cracking" method for developing a big ribcage.


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:23 PM
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Following on 121, I meant this and this, not this.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:24 PM
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126: Mine is big because I hurt myself with a lot of non-standard breathing exercises while 14-15, when my sternum was still fusing. It's amazing how singing changes one's body forever. I also figure it's true because it's certainly not my tits that make all my button-downs gap at the front.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:24 PM
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I totally objectified this big tall Amazon woman for no reason

At my local supermarket, there are two regular customers -- a tall, blond 19 or 20 year old woman and her taller, blonder, 45-50 year old mother. And when I say tall I mean like they're both around 6'4" and about 180/190lbs or so -- Valkyrie material. There was an amusing moment last week when a 6'3" guy with a beergut, clearly used to being the biggest entity in the vicinity, caught sight of them in the checkout line and was comically unable to stop looking at them while getting his groceries. He was missing his bag as he tried to put stuff into it, not hearing the cashier's requests for ID, etc, etc.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:25 PM
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Anecdote-pwned by 127.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:25 PM
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Well, 127 was mainly intended to inspire peopl eto ask for the anecdote.

Teamwork!


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:26 PM
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OMG, 117 is crazy. I can't tell how the slimming version slims particularly. There used to be cute bathing suits with skirts. Weren't those wholesome enough?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:26 PM
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Apparently, our partners like us just the way we are.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:26 PM
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130 is so how I was around this woman. She was new to town and I was practically begging her to let me take her to Coney Island. OMG, yummy. Giantess redhead dolly with a big smile. Who could resist?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:27 PM
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I don't know how one would tell if one had a giant ribcage.

Isn't that the number of a bra size? Like, a 38A has a big rib cage (and breasts bigger than a 32A), whereas a 32C has a smaller rib cage (and breasts smaller than a 38C)?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:27 PM
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Patagonia

Oooooh, yes, awesome.

Unfortunately my life rarely requires (or even allows for) Pategonia-type clothes. I think this may be partially an East Coast/West Coast thing; I certainly know professionals on the West Coast who could get away with wearing some of their stuff to the office.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:27 PM
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Isn't that the number of a bra size?

No, because there are fat people.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:29 PM
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Patagonia, I mean.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:29 PM
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I am counting on 134. I definitely do that, though I am somewhat anxious about my current suitor, in that he is objectively, like, the most beautiful man I've ever spoken to. What does he see in me? I hope it's not all my winning personality, but he seems very fond indeed.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:29 PM
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"Halters look good on those with petite shoulders"

Not on me they don't. Somewhat square necklines look good.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:29 PM
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Wait, WTF, there is another new definition of emo? Is this just a UK thing? I have to stop looking at sidebars in newspapers.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:29 PM
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Which is to say, that might tell you how big your ribcage is in absolute terms, but not in relative terms.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:30 PM
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Patagonia should sell an accessory called the tiara del fuego.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:30 PM
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All those cute bikinis that you reject because they would only look good on an A cup . . . just send them my way. Wearing an ancient J. Crew one-piece in front of a bunch of college-aged Australians last week was not good for my self esteem. The only trouble is finding a good style for a rectangular, short waisted, flat chested woman with skin the color of cottage cheese.


Posted by: Amber | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:30 PM
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142: Brits way confuse Goth for Emo, or maybe it's the same thing there. Here, I think Goth tends to run nihilist, while Emo is more narcissistic hipster.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:31 PM
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To the office I wear Banana Republic, which purports to be trying to aggressively reform its former practices and not use sweatshop labor. Again, optimism is half justification for consumerist guilt.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:31 PM
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with skin the color of cottage cheese

In my homeland you would be revered as an exotic emissary from a remote, sun-drenched world.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:32 PM
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Amber: I think that pale skinned women look good in bright colors. No black, and unless you tan, no white. Yellow supposdly looks good, but I know you think you can't wear it. I think you should wear a bright summer green, or raspberry.

I wear black bathing suits, but that's because I didn't listen to my mom and am dark like a peasant in the rice paddies.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:34 PM
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138, 143: OK, but even so, given the range of typical bra sizes, one could figure out about roughly where one falls on the rib cage spectrum - I mean, you don't have to speculate about whether your chest is all rib cage or includes some fat diameter.

But again, I really have no business in this thread. I should go walk the dog and get some sleep.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:36 PM
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God I have to get back to this paper before my boyfriend comes home at 11 pm to make me stop working and go to sleep, but UK newspapers are so juicy.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:37 PM
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I like black on pale women. Hell, I think pale women should give up the whole endeavor of pretending they're not pale. It's, like "bigness," a huge kinky turn-on. I am very pale myself, and though that also means dealing with obvious blemishing, dark circles under the eyes, and constant obvious blushing, I've just decided to embrace it as a non-pathology.

One of my exes had kinks for very white and very black skin, so YMMV.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:37 PM
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I didn't listen to my mom and am dark like a peasant in the rice paddies.

This reminds me, I've started seeing parasols around town. You know, like umbrellas, but for the sun. I don't think I saw a single instance of this until adulthood when I started being at a science research center with a significant amount of Asian women immigrant scientists. Interesting.


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:38 PM
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It's the gravitational pull on my neck that I dislike, not the look.

Yeah, agreed.

143: I *think* that, in general, the bra band measurement itself is a fairly good rough indicator of ribcage size--it's a place that tends not to put on as much fat as most other parts of one's body. The relationship of band to *cup* size doesn't tell you much anything about rib cage, though, just fat distribution up front relative to ribcage size.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:39 PM
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dealing with obvious blemishing, dark circles under the eyes

My sister in pigment-free living. I only wish my freckles were still crisply visible, as they were when I was younger. Now they are more faded and mottled-y.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:39 PM
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One of my eyes has a freckle on the iris.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:48 PM
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153: Yeah. I give up on ever being as pale as my mom would like. I do wear sunblock though, because it's good for you.

But I have a visor. It's not an a-visor, but I have one of those too. A white, long-billed visor that my friend's Filipino mother gave me.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:49 PM
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Wikipedia has an entry titled "Conical straw hat". I think that must be the result of an amusing series of arguments and compromises.


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:52 PM
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158: my dad uses that for gardening. It's really from Vietnam though, and he's really Vietnamese, so, well, why not.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:53 PM
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||

Another government policy to make you Americans proud of your shining hypodermic needle city on a hill.

|>


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:56 PM
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AWB, Bitch PhD, is this some kind of British-mimicking bourgie thing, or what? I have no idea either. Like, I understand heating pans and water bottles, but not the purpose of linen clothes in turn-down services.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:57 PM
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160. None of these are people you'd hear about, so.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:01 PM
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I've never heard the phrase "turn down service"* but this looks like the answer.

*I stayed in a hotel in Taiwan that had one, but I didn't know it was called that. I didn't like coming back to the room to find it had been rearranged.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:08 PM
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I think the key with halters isn't the petiteness of the shoulders, but the lack of roundedness or softness, since the way the halter cuts in tends to emphasize that.

Belle is right about weird body hang-ups though, because I would not be happy with a miniskirt and knee-length boardshorts with a bikini top would suit me fine.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:10 PM
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Also. If you read that thread, there seem to be a lot of people who won't use a hotel towel more than once.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:11 PM
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I like black on pale women. Hell, I think pale women should give up the whole endeavor of pretending they're not pale.

I like black on pale women whose skin has blue undertones, but on pale women with yellow undertones, I don't think it works nearly as well as almost any other color.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:11 PM
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Finnishing school.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:13 PM
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160 -- Another Pulitzer for Dana Priest. The story won't do much good; the disconnect between elite and popular opinion on immigration is already so wide, even sensible politicians are afraid to do anything decent. We're more likely to invade Burma.

As the owner of an enormous walrus-like gut, I've more of less decided that anyone who spends time looking at me in a swimsuit deserves what they get. This is one of the few benefits of aging.

I recently toured the Polartec factory. It's always cool seeing how things are made, and in this case, the facility is pretty much all you can ask for in terms of being a modern clean operation. Even the dye vats, which looked like 19th century submarines.


Posted by: Napi | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:15 PM
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Thanks, eb!!


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:15 PM
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Any time I have an excuse to go look something up, I take it.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:24 PM
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wear bikini tops with board shorts (men's style trunks, iow)

Exactly. I haven't worn a regular women's bathing suit in at least 15 years. I hate, hate, hate them.

I used to wear cutoffs, because men's trunks never fit right, and a bikini top. Now I wear excellent women's board shorts (titlenine.com) and a tankini top (my stomach isn't what it used to be).


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:11 PM
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100: by using discount hotels, like Motel 6 and Econo Lodge, for travel, assigning one printer to 50 employees and myriad other ways." Sweatshop!.

161: non sweatshop conditions.


Posted by: Econolicious aka anonymous D. | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:30 PM
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"Several deportees were given a total of 30 milligrams [of Haldol]"(!!!) plus Ativan?. From rxlist: "Parenteral medication, administered intramuscularly in doses of 2 to 5 mg, is utilized for prompt control of the acutely agitated schizophrenic patient with moderately severe to very severe symptoms". 30 mg. For the asymptomatic. Just when I think I can't be shocked anymore ...


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:42 PM
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30 milligrams [of Haldol]

Vitamin H is no joke.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:13 AM
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The link at 134 is notable for contriving to make Johannson look butt ugly. Some achievement. Still, if anybody can, the Mail can.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 1:30 AM
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174 better not be taking the proverbial piss. I knew a girl on a 5 mg Haldol scrip and watching her take it, and seeing all of her personality drain out of her over the course of an hour, killed me inside. There's no excuse to be using Haldol today.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 2:19 AM
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re: 146

There's more of an overlap here, possibly. With kids who listen to 'emo' type music adopting a more goth fashion look. Kids just often use 'emo' to label other kids who aren't 'chav' types, I think.

Remember, though, that that article is in the Daily Mail which is basically a newspaper for fusty fascists [and middle-class white women].


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 4:35 AM
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It's unfortunate that the medical profession doesn't take self-policing even as seriously as the Bar Associations (which is setting the bar pretty low, mind you); otherwise, the doctors who wrote those Haldol scrips should be stripped of their licence to practice medicine.

This is a case where international organized labor might be able to make an impact. There are only a handful of U.S. flagged flights to Africa (Delta flies to Cape Town and to Dakhar). Otherwise, the U.S. government is reliant on foreign flagged carriers to transport the deportees. An organized appeal to the unions of five or six European carriers could throw a serious spanner in the machinery of deportee abuse.

There is precedent for this; in Germany, Lufthansa pilots and flight attendants have been known to refuse to work on flights where rejected asylum applicants were being transported in shackles (on the grounds that it constitutes a safety hazard and would impede emergency evacuation).


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 7:02 AM
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I am pale, and I'm fine with that, but it's the visible blue veins on my FACE that I'm not okay with. Veins on my legs, belly, boobs, and particularly on my upper arms---ok. But my veins noticably circle my eye sockets, and descend from the corners of my mouth, and run up from my jawbone to my cheekbone (only on one side of my face, oddly). A tan mitigates this, but I can't be bothering with tanning.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 7:14 AM
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Regarding the orginal topic of the thread, our former au pair, who had a Mae West figure with a 38DDD bust, used to source her bathing suits from Poland, where her body type is apparently more common. You gals might try identifying a country where the stereotypical female resembles your body type and/or where local fashions are closer to your ideal, and then look for internet retailers to match.

Cala, try Norway. LizardBreath, think Croatia.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 7:33 AM
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Way to go through your au pair's undies, Knecht.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 7:39 AM
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Further to 180: Norway may be appropriate for Foxytail, too.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 7:40 AM
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Haldol is not a bad drug when it's medically indicated. It's been studied extensively, so it's probably safer to use during pregnancy than the newer antipsychotics. That story, however, is absolutely appalling, and there is no excuse for giving anyone 30mg. It looked to me like the doses might be higher than that, since they were giving booster shots or it may be that the amount totaled 30 mg over the course of a day.

160 -- Another Pulitzer for Dana Priest. The story won't do much good; the disconnect between elite and popular opinion on immigration is already so wide, even sensible politicians are afraid to do anything decent. We're more likely to invade Burma.

I agree. It was interesting to me that the Republican congressman, from Texas of all places, acted to stop the deportation of Rrustem Neza--even to the point of introducing legislation to stop it. I don't know whether this is because Gohmert, the rep, was a former judge who actually believed in the rule of law or whether it's because Neza's persecutors were communists.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 7:42 AM
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181: The State Department regulations specify that there has to be an element of intercultural exchange, so I was just complying with the law, OK?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 7:44 AM
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You gals might try identifying a country where the stereotypical female resembles your body type and/or where local fashions are closer to your ideal, and then look for internet retailers to match.

Ha! That cracks me up, because I have found that when buying bras, bras from certain countries will fit better than bras from other countries, even controlling for differences in sizing and cut.

Still, I think the difference between me and the popular image of the Norwegian woman is about five inches and much longer, leaner lines.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 7:51 AM
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185: Yeah, French and Italian clothes generally fit me better than American ones. The problem is that that means Christian Dior in this country which I just can't afford. I can read French and a bit of Italian, but I'd be wary of ordering clothes from a website when I couldn't read the descriptions.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 7:57 AM
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I *think* that, in general, the bra band measurement itself is a fairly good rough indicator of ribcage size--it's a place that tends not to put on as much fat as most other parts of one's body.

Bitch, strangely, just this once, you are totally wrong.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 8:06 AM
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Well, you're right that it doesn't have as much fat as other parts of your body, but it does get bigger the fatter you are.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 8:06 AM
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I had thought that German clothes should fit me well, but instead I found that they were all designed to be as flippy dowdy and unflattering as possible. (Yes, I was in West Germany.) French and Italian bras are adorable but run small.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 8:08 AM
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189: I haven't tried any French bras, but shirts from there have fit me well.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 8:13 AM
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I had thought that German clothes should fit me well, but instead I found that they were all designed to be as flippy dowdy and unflattering as possible.

Hmmm. I was going to suggest Jil Sander, which is made for your body type, but then I looked at the 2008 catalog [warning: 2.5MB file], and it's exactly as you say. This must be a recent (and hopefully fleeting) fashion.

OTOH, there are some hopeful indications in that catalog that the 2008 collection portends the return of the pointy boobs under sheer blouses lookthat I so fervently miss.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 8:24 AM
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My understanding of Haldol, which I got from crisis unit workers I knew pretty well, is that it suppresses negative behaviors at the price of suppressing all behaviors. If someone can't do anything, they can't do anything bad.

The people I knew used it mostly, or maybe only, when pacifying a patient who came into the unit acting out uncontrollably. It wasn't thought of as a therapeutic drug (though maybe it is in very low doses.)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 8:25 AM
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I haven't tried any French bras, but shirts from there have fit me well.

I used to buy Fleur shirts from Anne Fontaine when we lived in Paris. She absolutely rocked that look.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 8:28 AM
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That Anne Fontaine website is incredibly annoying. I do not like trying to turn pages when looking at a catalogue, and they won't let you download the pdf without giving out your information.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 8:39 AM
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they won't let you download the pdf without giving out your someone's information.


I suggest "Jemma N. Foo" or "Geras Masciatte" as an alias.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 8:58 AM
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French and Italian bras are adorable but run small.

I've found that to be easily accomodated, but that there's a different in expected shape that makes them a little more hit or miss. Less full, or something. These guys, in particular.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 8:59 AM
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It's so hard to tell from fashion pictures what will fit me. Ooh, that looks nice. Oh, her waist is the same size as my leg.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:01 AM
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I think that we need a women of Unfogged New York shopping meetup.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:04 AM
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And while you're at it, please apply the same principle to sundresses.

Dear Clothes Makers,

Please make whatever changes to swimsuits will make my women friends most comfortable. But if you wouldn't mind leaving the sundresses they way they are, that'd be great. Kthnx.

That sundress season is also sunglasses season is a happy coincidence.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:14 AM
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Anne Fontaine is the epitome of everything I love and everything that does not work for my body and personality, but that I wish it would.

This is not unlike all of France and French people.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:15 AM
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That sundress season is also sunglasses season and bicycle season is a happy coincidence.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:20 AM
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I am disappointed that Knecht didnt pick out a bathing suit for me.

I am currently looking to buy some board shorts for our trip to Costa Rica. Mineshaft, please provide me with some options.

Am I too old for O'Neill Superfreak board shorts!??!


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:24 AM
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Will, you need to say whether you're a summer or an autumn or whatever before we start picking out sundresses for you.


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:38 AM
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Sundresses have to be one of the best inventions ever.

If only my shoulders were not so broad and my chest so hairy....


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:53 AM
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I was going to suggest Jil Sander

HAAAAAAAAATE. At the Jil Sander flagship store in Hamburg, the mannequins don't have breasts.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:54 AM
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205: you mean they have small, perky breasts, right? They barely have breasts?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:55 AM
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board shorts people. focus.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:56 AM
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207: dude how much is there to talk about with board shorts? Get the kind of baggy kind, with the waistband and pockets. That are, like, colorful. Or black, whichever.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 9:59 AM
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Lest any of you look on figleaves and think this top is a good idea, I can tell you: the plunge is much more dramatic than it looks in this photo.

I don't know what I was thinking. I mean, okay, it has "plunge" in the name. But I think looking at swimsuits online for too long gives you a distorted idea of how revealing they actually are.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:00 AM
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206: No, I don't. That would just be typical. I mean NONE.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:01 AM
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209: Plungeriffic!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:05 AM
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Sundresses are things of beauty and joys forever.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:08 AM
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When I tried it on, my first thought was, this isn't a swimsuit, this is a boob presentation device. Which, well duh, Blume. I ended up with
this one from Speedo's fashion swim line. Speedo has no love for y'all with more than D-cups, though.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:11 AM
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I am disappointed that Knecht didnt pick out a bathing suit for me.

I was thinking of something in a banana hammock, going for the Greek kamaki look.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:16 AM
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When I tried it on, my first thought was, this isn't a swimsuit, this is a boob presentation device.

My reaction can be assumed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:23 AM
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I had no idea there was a male cult of the sundress.

What do the men mean by sundresses, exactly? Any spring/summer dress that leaves shoulders bare?

And what in particular do you like? Just the exposure of more skin? The thinness and sometimes shearness of the fabric? The difficulty of wearing bras with many sundresses?

Please to explain yourselves, my brothers.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:32 AM
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And what in particular do you like? Just the exposure of more skin? The thinness and sometimes shearness of the fabric? The difficulty of wearing bras with many sundresses?

Pretty much.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:34 AM
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I think Sifu's appreciation of the sundress is impoverished, but I can't expand on this claim now, as I have to take a cold shower.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:37 AM
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Please to explain yourselves, my brothers.

Can't do it. My verbal and cognitive skills vanish at the appearance of sundresses.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:37 AM
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Just the exposure of more skin? The thinness and sometimes shearness of the fabric? The difficulty of wearing bras with many sundresses?

All of these, but mostly the fact that the send the "I am fun and relaxed" signal, which as has been noted here before, is very important for men.

Sundresses seriously raise your "fuckability" which is the ratio of hotness to threatningness.

(Not that I personally ever feel threatened by hot chicks.)


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:38 AM
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Okay, okay: the thing with sundresses is the intermittent revealingness provided by the alternately clingy and free-flowing fabric, in combination with the cheerful optimism of a garment both designed for beatiful weather and so easily cast-aside.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:39 AM
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221 is right. I don't know any guys who *don't* love sundresses. No other garment so perfectly illustrates the sexiness of "naked under her clothes."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:45 AM
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"leaves shoulders bare"? Not important. The issue as stated above is that it is made of thin fabric and is free-flowing, and simple instead of ruffled and pleated.


Posted by: Fatrman | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:46 AM
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Sundresses are great.

But men are easy. Just avoid granny panties, anything with an elasticated waist, sweat pants, and bulky sweaters, especially with prints.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:49 AM
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I'll have you know I look good in granny panties, bulky sweaters, and print sweatpants with elastic waists, PGD.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:51 AM
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Sweatpants are OK if they have a message printed on the butt. Then you're being invited to look.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 10:55 AM
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Speedo has no love for y'all with more than D-cups, though.

Flippanter has love enough for all. Ladies....


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:05 AM
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AWB said "[My ribcage] is bigbigbig. Don't know what to do about it. I've discussed this before, in that I have a hard time finding button-downs that don't gap at the chest if they fit in the waist, and it's not because I have huge tits."

I have the exact same "problem"! Nice to know I'm not the only one.

I also started singing in middle school, though it never occurred to me that the deep-diaphram-breathing would have been the cause of it. It does make my 38C boobs seem bigger than they are in some tops, but low-cut ones make it obvious that I have no cleavage. My boobs are working a divide & conquer strategy, which is expectable given their wide playing field.

Being short (or maybe just short-waisted) makes it worse, I think, simply because there's not a hand's breadth between my bottom rib and the top of my hipbone. My waist may indeed be small-ish, but it's so squat you'd not be able to tell.

I also have wide hips and a bubble butt, which means there are no bathing suits that will flatter me. I wear a halter-top one-piece anyway.

The prices on these suits y'all are linking to are outrageous, though.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:12 AM
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I concur with 217-221, and would add that sundresses also evoke springtime, which is itself mentally associated with the rising sap and a young man's fancy turning to thoughts of love.

It's also possible that the sundress carries implications of girlish innocence and sexual purity, which is probably why they always seem to feature in adverts for feminine hygiene products.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:18 AM
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The issue as stated above is that it is made of thin fabric and is free-flowing, and simple instead of ruffled and pleated.

The guys here have some sort of 90s fetish for Phoebe from Friends.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:26 AM
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Was she the ditzy one?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:28 AM
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230: no ma'am!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:29 AM
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Yes. To both 231 and 232.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:31 AM
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Did she wear a lot of sundresses or something?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:32 AM
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Heebie: bulky sweaters with math symbols printed on them are sexy, though. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:33 AM
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She wore quite a lot of sundresses, of the thin sheer clingy variety, and believe me, I'm quite aware of the magnetic irresistability of bulky math sweaters. You are all transparent to my Extra-Terrestrial Mind-Reading Capabilities.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:39 AM
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The prices on these suits y'all are linking to are outrageous, though.

Meh, decent bras are expensive. Plus a decent swimsuit will last for years, if you take care of it.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:47 AM
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236: huh. Noted counterexample, I guess. I've never found her particularly attractive.

Actually all of those people on Friends are ugly to me. I guess I can just see through to their withered, evil cores.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:49 AM
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Plus a decent swimsuit will last for years, if you take care of it.

The chlorine in the pool always renders mine saggy within a few months. But I never buy the spendy ones to begin with. Do they have salt- and chlorine-fighting fabric? How could they possibly last for years if you wear then for anything besides sunbathing?


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:51 AM
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Oh man, you must rinse your suit out after swimming in a pool!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:51 AM
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wear *them* for anything...


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:52 AM
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Rinse, in cold water. You could even throw it in the machine with your other bras.

That said, of course if you are wearing a lycra suit for swimming in a chlorine pool every day, it's going to fall apart after a season even if you do rinse it out. But I assume that most of us here assembled who are searching for two-piece suits aren't buying them to be swimming laps in.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 11:57 AM
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Hard to fit? Expensive? Saggy? Falls apart after one season? I'm not sure there is any good argument against dispensing with bathing suits all together. Laydeez.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:02 PM
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I am totally, happily spoiled by the employee health club I can now attend. If you use it regularly it is only $15/month and they have salt-water (instead of chlorine) pools. I didn't even know they existed.

I so totally knew it would finally pay off to keep my very part time acting gigs at the Mayo Clinic. And thank you Dan Abraham, the founder of Slim-Fast, who donated the club because Mayo cured a nagging cough no one else could diagnose.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:03 PM
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243: here, let me help you.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:03 PM
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who donated the club because Mayo cured a nagging cough no one else could diagnose.

"Sir, that's your wife!" </borscht belt>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:05 PM
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Actually all of those people on Friends are ugly to me. I guess I can just see through to their withered, evil cores.

This is a surprisingly durable sentiment, I am learning from reading Juvenal. He was a cranky old guy, probably would have fit in here, barring his dislike for immigrants and (Greeks, philosophers, homosexuals) overlapping categories of people that would have been popular here.

He hasn't mentioned ribcages yet, but y'all have me thinking about someone I knew in college with the most incredible sternum and collarbones.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:09 PM
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Now that I think about it, didn't heebie wear a teacher sweater to Unfogged DCon?

Sir Kraab identified all the fabulous stuff about sundresses.

I always encourage my female clients to wear sundresses to court.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:18 PM
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Oh man, you must rinse your suit out after swimming in a pool!

Does wearing them in the shower afterward count?

I don't go every day, or to swim laps, actually. I enjoy *coughcough* water aerobics *ahem* a couple of times a week.

I am a little old lady in a wide-ribbed, oddly-proportioned body. But with the mind of a 12-year-old boy!


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:19 PM
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Does wearing them in the shower afterward count?

Yup!

I enjoy *coughcough* water aerobics *ahem* a couple of times a week.

Does that mean sex?

with the mind of a 12-year-old boy!

Apparently.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:20 PM
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Also, has Blume posted a picture of herself in the top from 209?

Cause I wanted to show BR an example of how it looked on a real person.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:21 PM
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I always encourage my female clients to wear sundresses to court.

This is family court, right? I think that supports my contention in 229 that sundresses are associated with innocence and sexual purity (particularly important considering some of the factual issues in dispute in your cases).

FWIW, an old acquaintance who used to be an urban public defender always suggested that her clients accused of violent crimes wear glasses and cardigan sweaters, since jurors don't believe that African American men who wear these things can be capable of violence.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:27 PM
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I hope it succeeds and everything, will, but I have to say: not your subtlest work.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:27 PM
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251: Wow, that is so altruistic of you. You are all heart!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:27 PM
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252: Should they also bring pudding pops? Enough for everyone?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:29 PM
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Does that mean sex?

I wish!

I means aerobics, done while waist- or shoulder-deep in water. Very low impact, perfect for folks with bad joints, like the elderly. And the lazy, like moi, who find weight-bearing aerobics to be too flappy, embarrassing, tiring and coordination-challenging.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:31 PM
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Should they also bring pudding pops? Enough for everyone?

This was in the late 80s, so the origins of her theory were not hard to fathom.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:31 PM
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Bulky cardigans are perfect for concealing firearms or irresponsible ideas about parenting.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:34 PM
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Does wearing them in the shower afterward count?

Depends. Is it a quick shower in the gym? Because, if so, no.

I generally take mine off and let it soak in a sink full of cold water *while* I shower, then smoosh it with my hands a few times afterwards, as if hand-washing.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:34 PM
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Thanks, I hadn't thought of that.

Unsurprisingly, Jezebel is on topic. Looks like the 50's suit may be available to you soon, B.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 12:53 PM
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wrenae,

weight-bearing aerobics to be too flappy, embarrassing, tiring and coordination-challenging.

Yeah, and the treadmill or exercise bike or even the eliptical are sweaty, tiring, and incredibly boring.

I've been thinking I need to spring for an iPod just to listen to while slaving away for the 45 minutes they recommend for me.

Pre-emptily - I know, I know, the entire world except for me already has an iPod and knows how absolutely wonderful they are and how much a fuddy duddy I am.

I had an interesting conversation with my college freshman sprog as I was hauling him home yesterday. He couldn't believe that when I was in college listening to music was actually a social and SHARED activity. For him it's a big "LEAVE ME ALONE" sign and he thinks it rude that I would expect someone else to listen to my music while being with me.

And I mean listening with friends of both sex. Not during sex. You PERVS.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 1:13 PM
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Yeah, the systematic change from shared activity done together to solipsistic commodity is striking.

I don't really like music while exercising-- but I either bicycle or swim. I've been running a little bit, incredibly much harder.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 1:21 PM
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I just bought a lovely brown tankini and matching knit skirt at the Gap for a total of $83.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 1:44 PM
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Belle's slander of shoulders can't be left unrefuted. I loves me some surfer girls, paddler girls, and the like. Also, re Will's question, I like Patagonia's paddler shorts (lined boardshorts), and they also have several other styles.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 1:50 PM
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sundresses are associated with innocence and sexual purity

That is correct, Knecht.

Sundresses remind judges of nice, church-going young ladies.

Heebie: I do what I can for BR.

Along those lines: Yesterday, my daughter had a really bad day of hitting and general bad behavior. Our receptionist (wife on one of the lawyers) and another paralegal told me that I must be really good in bed for BR to stay with me with all the baggage that she has to put up with due to me.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 1:53 PM
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I only saw her at UnfoggeDCon, but BR is pretty awesome, Will.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 1:57 PM
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BG:

So I can take that as another vote for "Will must be great in bed"?

Thanks BG!


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 1:57 PM
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I only saw you at UnfoggeDCon, but I did think you must be great in bed, Will.

(If you want the honest to God truth, I went home and told everyone you were the sexiest man there. Even though you looked like the third Mitchell brother.)


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 2:50 PM
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Asilon is the best!


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 3:00 PM
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