Re: Ripped Off

1

Underarm merkins?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 7:37 PM
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Oh my God, Becks. That's horrible. I have found that waxers, even at the high end, vary widely in quality and style. If it's something you're going to have done a lot or in sensitive areas, it really pays to find a friend who gets waxing done and find out who they've used and who's their favorite.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 7:41 PM
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Holy crap, misery.

I wouldn't do anything until your underarms have a couple of days to heal. Then, assess.

I do feel compelled to note that if you were naturally hairless, like the ladies in the magazines, you wouldn't even have this problem.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 7:44 PM
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See, if animal testing weren't banned, this would never happen.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 7:46 PM
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When I started bleeding,

Holy crap! It's amusing the way you've recounted it here, but really not so funny, after all. You could end up with an infection or something (which isn't going to happen, I hasten to add, but still).


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 7:46 PM
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On the bright side, it did afford you the opportunity for some pretty sweet title-fu.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 7:47 PM
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I wonder if waxing ability varies so widely because they don't get a great deal of training by watching other people do it, or by doing it with a lot of supervision first. Not many people would like to get their coochie waxed with someone barking "NO! THAT'S ALL WRONG!"


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 7:51 PM
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It isn't dental school. Couldn't they practice on themselves first? On the model of how cops are supposed to get tased, before they go around doing it to others.


Posted by: ixnaythemetier | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 7:55 PM
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Not many people would like to get their coochie waxed with someone barking "NO! THAT'S ALL WRONG!"

"THAT'S NOT EVEN THE RIGHT PLACE!"


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 7:58 PM
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AHHH KELLY CLARKSON!!!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 7:59 PM
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Couldn't they practice on themselves first?

I like this idea.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:04 PM
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AHHH KELLY CLARKSON!!!

What possible purpose would that serve, waxing-pedagogy-wise?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:04 PM
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I think she makes your hair stand on end, for easier uprooting.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:09 PM
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OT:

get tased

I made the mistake of picking up the paper NYT Magazine and found this awful consumer column extolling the wonders of the cute, pink or leopard-print versions of Taser. (Yes, really.) Not a whisper about the raging controversy over lethality or inappropriate use.

Holy cow, NYT, I get that it's a column about buying stuff, but have you no shame?


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:14 PM
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12:Kelly Clarkson.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:17 PM
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In 14 "consumer column" should be "re-drafted company press release." That column actually uses "the customer" as a serious subject of sentences.

The company has been fairly clever about drumming up nonscary publicity in recent months.

Having a Times reporter advertise for you hardly counts as clever.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:21 PM
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See, if animal testing weren't banned, this would never happen.

Yeah well, rats are people too, you know.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:22 PM
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You should have had three of your slacker buddies standing around during the waxing to crack jokes and give you encouragement. Then it would have been hilarious.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:22 PM
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15: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I may need to see that movie.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:25 PM
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I have noticed that if a post's title consists of a past participle, it's usually by Bex.


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:26 PM
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"usually" maybe should be "probably".


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:27 PM
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I may need to see that movie.

The quotations page at IMDB is so extensive, I feel as though I already have.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:30 PM
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||

Obama yak yak yak

|>


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:35 PM
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23 - No Obama here. I'll give you an Obama thread.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:38 PM
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22 - I noticed. You didn't read the whole thing, did you? It sounded a little familiar anyway, I thought.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:40 PM
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Oh, Becks. I'm so so sorry. However, hairless armpits are totally overrated.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:47 PM
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You didn't read the whole thing, did you?

Ummmm....


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:47 PM
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Was the pedicure nice at least?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:48 PM
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this awful consumer column extolling the wonders of the cute, pink or leopard-print versions of Taser

When is the first documented taser mugging going to take place? It's going to be even more awesome if the mugger has a leopard-print taser.

There's already been at least one civilian dueling taser altercation in the news.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:51 PM
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The pedicure was nice. For the second time in a row (at different establishments) I had a male pedicurist, which I'd never seen before DC.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:55 PM
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I had a bad bikini wax recently--lots of bruising, but no actual breaking of skin. My husband saw the area, burst out laughing, and said, "uh, you want me to go to the salon and avenge your honor or something?"

But dude, this is the worst waxing story I've ever heard.

And I can't believe I'm writing this publicly, but it is a good idea to trim your body hair to less than an inch if it's all winter-pelt hairy. Leg hair is never a problem, but when the hair of the coochie and armpit hair get long, it's very difficult for the waxer to isolate small, workable sections. You end up waxing up too much real estate (and you wax it too high on the hair), and the science just falls apart. It becomes less of a hair removal situation and more a "let's use your hair to remove entire sections of your epidermis" situation.

And for more fabulous bikini waxing recommendations, please consult the Berkeley Parents Network. No, really .


Posted by: theorajones | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 8:58 PM
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Waxing sounds horribly unpleasant when it goes well. I can't imagine.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:04 PM
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Becks, don't use antiperspirant for a few days. It hurts like a mofo on broken skin, which clearly you have. As an Asian woman my nerve endings have been too damaged on my underarms to feel the pain of tweezing, but from what I can recall of the first time I did that---owwww. Poor you. Let them heal. Use baby powder.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience! I am too chicken to ever let hot wax near my girly bits, and now I vow NEVER to let hot wax get anywhere near my body at all. I hear that when you are pregnant, you can't shave your legs because of the belly getting in the way. Whatev. I will stay hairy, and my husband can deal.

I told w-lfs-n, who is also an epistolary geek, that I stopped using my wax seal because I dripped hot wax on my thigh (never wear shorts!) once and got, I swear, a 3rd, or 2nd degree burn. Never again. I will be like one of those kids who has to use velcro because he can't tie his shoelaces, and use sticker seals.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:08 PM
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Also, where is Witt?! I wish I had her email. I am late on the Jezebel wagon, and found yet another store I can't shop at from this old article. I wanted her commiseration and sympathy, but also feel like a total tool for having ever bought into Anthropologie's bourgie boho (bobo?) schtick. Ugh, I am such a sucker. The stuff doesn't even look good on me.Especially since their store practices are just as bad as Abercrombie's!


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:11 PM
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33 - You could have your husband shave your legs. That could be hot. Or a bloody mess. Depends on your husband.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:11 PM
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36

You could shave your husband's head. It's fun!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:17 PM
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Oh. My. Fucking. God. Becks, that sounds truly, truly awful. Not that I needed any further reason to entrench my beliefs, but I am so never getting my armpits waxed ever.

I don't think your armpits are going to scab, though. It seems that scabs are less likely to form in very sensitive/potentially moist areas. Even so, I would abstain from anti-persp and, uh, give them a break.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:19 PM
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38

I'm rather fond of my armpit hair.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:20 PM
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39

You could have your husband shave your legs.

This is the best idea.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:23 PM
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I'm rather fond of my armpit hair.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:24 PM
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41

Everybody now!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:25 PM
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42

Isn't this the sort of thing feminists are supposed to be against?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:26 PM
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Yikes, Belle, that article is something:

Almost any man who worked the store and was not white was assigned to the stockroom or put on the "loss prevention" team which meant that he stood at the front of the store, looking nonwhite (and therefore extra-aware of the shoplifting prowess of fellow nonwhites)

Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:26 PM
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As an Asian woman my nerve endings have been too damaged on my underarms to feel the pain of tweezing

?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:26 PM
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45

I was going to ask about that, too, Sir Kraab.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:27 PM
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46

I do still feel a bit guilty every time I shave my legs. But then the sheets feel extra-smooth and I rationalise it once again! It's not as though my honey notices.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:29 PM
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47

You could have your husband shave your legs. That could be hot.

Indeed. (How quickly we forget, and do not return to the archives.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:30 PM
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48


Husband shaving legs is a good idea. He can't be that bad at it, if also he shaves his face. Right?

I told my boyfriend that I will do whatever I want, but am pleased to stay groomed and pretty for him--because it is one of the things I want to do. But if he ever told me NOT to wear makeup or told me I HAD to shave my legs, I would rebel. He of course says that he infinitely prefers me to have shaved legs, but "go ahead, go Eastern European." This will be tested when I can't shave my legs due to pregnancy.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:31 PM
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44: Asians have invented all sorts of painful ways to remove hair (threading, sugaring, plucking), and plucking is most common among the Vietnamese for the armpit region.

My sister actually plucks her bikini line. No joke. I'm too much of a wuss to ever try that. But I sucked it up and started plucking my armpits around 15, and 12 years later--no pain. Seriously, you do it often enough, it doesn't hurt anymore, because you've damaged the follicle nerve receptor or something.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:33 PM
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From what I've heard, having hairy legs is the least of one's worries during late-stage pregnancy. My sisters gave me graphic explanations for how they got through boxes and boxes of panty liners towards the end. Ew.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:34 PM
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Asians have invented all sorts of painful ways to remove hair

I don't know whether it's limited to one ethnicity, but boy was I shocked to see the arm-hair razors and whatnot when I went to the Japanese grocery store. Holy moly.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:37 PM
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47: I am not going to read the archived comments to that, at this time.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:38 PM
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53

A guy can shave his face, but he's not going to be at a good angle to do anything but carve the hell out of your legs.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:43 PM
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54

Your loss, parsimon. It's a good thread. Mr. B is in there! And matt weiner (PBUH) and ttaM before he reversed himself!


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:49 PM
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55

That makes no sense.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:50 PM
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56

It would if you read the thread. Mostly.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:51 PM
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51: Yeah. Sigh. Also, lots of whitener products. Those freak me out. But again, I look like a peasant according to mom.

Not limited to one ethnicity, no. I do recall this being something I was able to bond over with my Persian friends. I dunno why there are so many hair removal products and methods in the stores, when by all accounts most of my siblings have very fair hair (even our eyebrows) on our arms and legs. I would compare myself to other Asian women, except that they also seem hairless, either by design or accident. Either the methods work well, or there's been a cottage industry built around a non-existent problem.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:52 PM
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If I can shave standing up, how is it possible a guy can't shave your legs if you're reclined in a bathtub with a leg propped up? Or even if you are standing up, can't he just do the same? Even if he shaves with the grain, which is not how I do it.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:55 PM
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38, 40: I, too, am rather fond of your armpit hair.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:55 PM
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there's been a cottage industry built around a non-existent problem

For women? That's crazy talk!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:56 PM
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Darn it, Sir K beat me to it.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:57 PM
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Oh, 55 to 53.

54: At this time, at this time.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:58 PM
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63

That thread was also before Bostoniangirl began capitalizing her name.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 9:58 PM
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64

There seem to be a lot of threads on body hair.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 10:01 PM
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There seem to be a lot of threads on body hair sex.

Fixed.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 10:03 PM
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There seem to be a lot of threads on body hair.

On a blog run by an Iranian? Shocking.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 10:11 PM
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It's almost like nobody here ever has sex, which I know is not correct, so I really don't get it. I just don't.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 10:18 PM
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I never have sex, and that's enough.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 10:20 PM
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But you have your standards, Ben, and that's almost as good.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 10:23 PM
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Why don't we take off our body hair using fire? That would be awesome.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 10:56 PM
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71

Although even more troubling if you had a crappy technician.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 10:56 PM
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How would that work, exactly? Plus, stinky.

Although, I have to say, having gotten my face too close to a fire more than once, wiping off your own eyebrows after they've turned to ash is actually pretty cool. (Not my whole eyebrows.)


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 11:06 PM
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73

Fire is a common method for removing the hair from a slaughtered pig.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 11:07 PM
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74

First, we tie up Ogged. Then, we put a big pile of straw on him...


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 11:10 PM
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75

The pig is dead!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 11:15 PM
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72: How would that work, exactly?

YouTube has the answer(s). I like this one.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 11:15 PM
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75: Everyone listen to ogged, he has the conch.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 11:16 PM
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76: So, seriously, what is wrong with young men?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 11:32 PM
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78: They know that some day they will be old men.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 11:48 PM
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You're missing out, Sir Kraab. Seriously, it's a lot of fun.

I recommend Quick Start.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 11:52 PM
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81

Has anyone here tried No!No! It's expensive, but it sounds cool.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-20-08 11:55 PM
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82

Very sorry to hear about the hurty ripped-off-ness.

Is this hair-removal thing something that women do in anticipation of men looking at them? Or other women looking at them? Or is the relevant gaze not gendered in any particular way? Or is the whole gaze thing kind of a red herring here?

Because if it's the first of these, it may be socially beneficial for me to go around wearing a metaphorical "Don't do painful things to look hot to my gender!" T-shirt.


Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:11 AM
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50?? I have no idea what your sisters might have been talking about, JM. Not that late pregnancy doesn't suck, mind.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:17 AM
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84

both appalling and hilarious.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:38 AM
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82: It's about this thing called "social norms," Neil.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:40 AM
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re: 48

He of course says that he infinitely prefers me to have shaved legs, but "go ahead, go Eastern European."

What's funny about that is how the stereotype gets it soe completely wrong. Actual Eastern European women are from a planet with a whole other higher level of personal grooming. Take some British/American girls to Prague, go to a few clubs where actual Czechs go [not touristy places], and see how quickly they get to feeling really slobby and inadequate.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:56 AM
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87

Hangover from old Cold War stereotypes, innit.


Posted by: Martin Wisse | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 1:24 AM
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88

in fairness, Eastern Europe's a big place and not all of it is like former Czechoslovakia; I suspect that "Eastern European" here might mean "East German".


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 1:39 AM
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re: 88

Yeah, I know the stereotypes. East German female shot-putters, and the like.

I was just commenting [amused, mostly] on how stereotypes date, and long outlive any underlying 'facts' that originally grounded them.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 1:48 AM
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Take some British/American girls to Prague, go to a few clubs where actual Czechs go [not touristy places] anybody who isn't British or American goes, and see how quickly they get to feeling really slobby and inadequate.

Fixed.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 4:10 AM
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becks, I'm so, so sorry. that fucking sucks.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 4:30 AM
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Actual Eastern European women are from a planet with a whole other higher level of personal grooming.

Indeed. Eastern Europe was way ahead of the curve on the hairless pudenda look for adult women. I have previously hypothesized that Hungarian porn was the Ur-Quelle of the shaved twat trend.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 5:39 AM
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FWIW, I think Becks could totally rock the Scandinavian unshaved pits look. Maybe a little peroxide now and again to keep the hair color close to the tone of the skin.

The problem is that most American men have only seen body hair on women who are unsexy for other reasons, e.g. hirstute East German shotputters, smelly hippies, or feminists making a "statement". Once you become familiar with "normal" attractive women unselfconsciously leaving their bodies in a natural state, you can lose the unerotic associations.

Short of a national education program to acquaint the American public with the sight throngs of hairy legged nordics on the beaches of the Balearic islands, I suggest that one of the cutting edge, up-and-coming designers do a show with ungroomed models as a way to create "impact" and "buzz". Then it will become a trend! Hell, they sold us on emaciation and heroin chic; a little body hair doesn't seem like much of a stretch.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 5:47 AM
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82, 85: Social norms, yes. Also that smooth feeling of hairlessness. Also (I theorize, for me anyway) a little of the same type of OCD that makes picking at loose wallpaper so irresistible. Specific to waxing, maybe a little masochism. There's no one reason, I don't think.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 5:49 AM
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Before I get pilloried here, let me clarify that I was attributing the belief that "feminists making a 'statement'" are unsexy to the average man, not subscribing to it myself.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 5:50 AM
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94 was me. Also, I advocate the do-it-yourself at home waxing. Though, caution is advised with that microwave stuff -- dripped some overheated wax on my hand once and got a nasty burn. Which, you know, then you have to pull the cooled wax off of at some point.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 5:57 AM
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96: It helps if you can squirrel away some Vicodin or Percocet for such occasions. Or so I have heard, anyway.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:00 AM
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I used to date a guy who shaved his armpits, and it took me eons to figure it out. 'Something's different here... but what?!'

After I figured it out, of course, every time he took his shirt off, all I could think was, 'really?!'


Posted by: Rottin' in Denmark | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:00 AM
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72 my sister did that once when she was 5-6
it was not fire, a candle and not the whole brow too
i remember i once cut her hair to the roots from the top of her head when we were playing hairdressers, was very surprised to see the bare scalp, b/c it did not supposed to look like that
good thing she couldn't see that place in the mirror and was not that upset


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:09 AM
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44: Asians have invented all sorts of painful ways to remove hair (threading, sugaring, plucking), and plucking is most common among the Vietnamese for the armpit region.

Threading is awesome. It's faster than waxing and can be more precise. I think it hurts less.

Unfortunately there are only one or two places in Boston to get it done. I found a nursing student whose mother made her learn on family trips to India who's very good.

I've thought about getting my bikini line waxed, and there are a couple of places that I've heard are good, but one of the people there left, so I don't know what it's like. It hurts, but shaving there (which is what I do) is likely to lead to ingrown hairs.

I am not ready to have my butt hole waxed, and I actually saw a case report on pubmed of someone who had a terrible infection from getting a full Brazilian.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:13 AM
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97: Vicodin makes me desperately want to vomit.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:18 AM
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the belief that "feminists making a 'statement'" are unsexy to the average man

You get into a chicken and egg argument here. Men found women perfectly sexy as they come for tens of thousands of years, but now you can assert as conventional wisdom that average men demand depilation. Well, whose dumb idea was that? And is it even true? Does anybody ask around?

I have to say I find shaven vulvas fairly squicky because if it's done for the benefit of men, I see faux-paedophilia issues. OTOH, somebody here once said that it made sex much better for the woman, in which case it's got to be a good idea. But I remain to be convinced that this is really why it's become fashionable.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:18 AM
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That really sucks, Becks. Don't give up on the idea of waxing, though; if it's done right, it's not that painful and is over quickly.

Since I've tried everything, a ranking of hair removal methods: threading (only done my face; less painful and more precise than waxing for brows and no mess), salon waxing (with auxiliary plucking), laser (takes too long, only partially effective, but fairly permanent), Magic Shaving Powder (good for delicate areas, but messy), regular shaving, home sugaring/waxing, home plucking. That Nads infomercial stuff is probably the least evil home strip method.


Posted by: Amber | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:20 AM
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103: they have infomercials about removing hair from your nads? American mass culture is heading in a weirder direction than I thought, faster than I thought.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:31 AM
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104: I think that nads, a particular brand of a sugaring product comes from Australia.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:35 AM
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Aussies cutting to the chase as usual. I'm surprised they get away with the name in America.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:38 AM
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What, so this nad-depilating stuff is an already successful product in Australia being marketed to the Americans? Australian culture is moving in a weirder, etc etc.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:39 AM
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My wonderful new swimsuit has low enough hips that I don't need to worry about pubic depiliation. I would rather wear 1930s-style little shorts than go through that shit.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:43 AM
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Men found women perfectly sexy as they come for tens of thousands of years, but now you can assert as conventional wisdom that average men demand depilation. Well, whose dumb idea was that? And is it even true? Does anybody ask around?

You misread me, OFE. I assert that the average American man expects to see depilation (of the pits and legs, though demographic aging seems destined to add the pudenda to the list), and that he associates undepilated legs and pits with various things he finds unerotic, one of which is vocal feminism.

No, I don't have any data to support this, but I would confidently wager that public opinion surveys would support my claim.

Whose dumb ideas was that? Dunno. Seems silly and patriarchal enough to me. That said, it took a fair amount of resocialization for me to come around to that viewpoint.

Re-read the last paragraph of 93 and you will see that I advocate measures to roll back the depilation trend and make natural hair a mainstream taste.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:48 AM
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American mass culture is heading in a weirder direction than I thought, faster than I thought.

The coal minor is a traditionalist who likes things to stay the same and does not seek out new experiences. People still remember the riots of ought six, which began when a lunch room employee decided to cut the men's sandwiches diagonally rather than horizontally.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:54 AM
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Men found women perfectly sexy as they come for tens of thousands of years, but now you can assert as conventional wisdom that average men demand depilation.

I don't know what to say to this beyond 'humans, go figure.' Beauty standards aren't ordained on high, obviously, but that doesn't mean that modern beauty standards can't be different from what was fashionable on Stone Tools Runway, or that someone brought up to find one feature beautiful might associate the lack of that feature with some other negative trait.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:56 AM
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109: Re-read the last paragraph of 93 and you will see that I advocate measures to roll back the depilation trend and make natural hair a mainstream taste.

But what moneyed interest would profit from such a campaign? Sheesh, academics.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:00 AM
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98 is pretty funny.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:05 AM
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But what moneyed interest would profit from such a campaign? Sheesh, academics.

No imagination, JPS! 1 is a partial answer. Specialist underarm colours (exactly the same chemicals as used for head hair, but marketed in a different shaped dispenser). Ditto pubic colours. Curling, straightening, incorporating real hair into tat designs. Shit, there's a huge new market there, completely untapped.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:17 AM
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But what moneyed interest would profit from such a campaign? Sheesh, academics.

You insult me, JRoth! The only thing I have in common with an academic is the amount of time I spend posting blog comments!

The thought of how some moneyed interest could profit from hairy legs was the origin of my suggestion that an edgy fashion designer should be the innovator. Others would imitate the look to profit from the halo effect, fashion magazine publishers would run features on it (Vogue: "The Herstute Look"; Glamour:: "The Hair and Now"; Cosmopolitan: "Leg Hair: The New Aphrodesiac to Drive Him Wild").

New fashions would have to emerge to accomodate and show off the hairy appendages and recesses. New products would emerge to keep underarm hair soft, silky, and appropriately tinted. A whole new category of underarm deoderant would have to be invented that doesn't leave unsightly white streaks on the underarm hair.

The more I think about it, the more mysterious it is that no one has considered this as a business opportunity.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:20 AM
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A whole new category of underarm deoderant would have to be invented that doesn't leave unsightly white streaks on the underarm hair.

Dr. Haushcka makes a lovely, lovely floral-scented one.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:27 AM
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was not supposed, i suppose


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:29 AM
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JM, Dr. Haushka products are obscenely expensive. I have a jar of their lip balm that a rep gave me; it's $8 for .14 oz. I like it and keep it by my bedside for occasional treatment, but I like kiehls a lot too (more depending on teh situation) and will stick with that.

The new Rose Day cream light is not that great.

Trader Joe's was out of their deodorant, so now I'm looking for an alternative and am not sure what to buy. I don't want an antiperspirant.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:34 AM
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Tom's of Maine makes a nice deodorant, BG. (It might not be a bad idea for Becks the next couple of days, too, as it's a little less irritating than regular deodorant.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:37 AM
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115: You insult me, JRoth!

Yeah, JRoth, as you can see, you have no imagination, insulting KR along the way, plenty of money to be made off of body hair. Sheesh, typical of a small-minded 'burgher.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:39 AM
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Dr. Haushka products are obscenely expensive.

I know. But I really like the way the deodorant smells!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:42 AM
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120: Oops, sorry for the misattribution, JP.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:58 AM
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I think JR is probably owed the apology....


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:59 AM
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Ow ow ow. No way should the salon have let somebody so inexperienced go near your sensitive bits. The waxer should have practiced on the other staff members first, and their first customer should only have been, say, a half leg wax (easiest and least painful area). Underarms are actually pretty sensitive, IME equivalent to the upper bikini line.

Re special beauty products - there is that "Betty" stuff for collar and cuffs issues and IIRC, the characters in Marian Keyes last-but-one book are careful to use conditioner on the hair if expecting a night of passion.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:23 AM
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Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow!

I tried plucking a few of my underarm hairs once, kind of testing it out to see if plucking or waxing would be an option, and the immediate and resounding answer was NO.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:24 AM
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Repetition of emir's ows completely unintentional!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:25 AM
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Too late, you now owe her royalties.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:30 AM
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Profit!


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:32 AM
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My representatives will be calling later to remove the DRM-non-complaint parts of your brain. You will not remember any pain.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:40 AM
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You will not remember any pain.

Still, now I'm all worried that I'm gonna let out an unintentional 'ow' when they put in the brain sucking device.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:45 AM
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I would rather wear 1930s-style little shorts than go through that shit.

And we're back to the board shorts and tankini.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:46 AM
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131: Word. I got hipster bikini bottoms. Trimming + shaving is enough. Being "groomed" is enough for me as I don't care about social norms about the bikini line if no one else is going to see that but my boyfriend or me. Part of why it is so awesome being in a crunchy granola place is that no one here ever talks obssessively about grooming the nether regions. I don't miss being in Los Angeles.

Although my boyfriend and I went to a clothing optional hot springs retreat in Calistoga, and it was hi-larious the variety in male and female junk. And the women were either au naturel or super groomed. The super groomed looked weird to me, actually, especially when it was coming in different shapes, like how poodles are groomed.

Of course, we were tools and kept on our bathing suits.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:57 AM
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hirstute
Herstute

It's "hirsute".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:04 AM
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Herstute

You got me on the superfluous "t", but "her" was meant as a joke about bad puns in magazine headlines. Maybe I should have added a hyphen to make it clear.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:24 AM
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I understood that, Knecht. Give a guy some credit.

I quoted them both to demonstrate that the first time it wasn't a typo, but a genuine misapprehension regarding the correct spelling.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:27 AM
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You need to find yourself a good Brazilian place.

I think that I have mentioned before that a Brazilian shop owner tried to convince me to get a Brazilian.

I declined. But I did let her lasor my back since it was free. I didn't really care about the hair, but it was free so I figured why not.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:36 AM
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Quick, w-lfs-n, point out the spelling error in 136!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:40 AM
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Knecht:

Ben needs raw meat. If we don't give it to him, he feels neglected.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:44 AM
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138: That's why you didn't use "Brasilian" I assume.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:48 AM
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Heh, I caught the spelling error in 136, but assumed it was the spelling of a specifically branded procedure, sort of like Lasik.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:48 AM
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JP:

Geez. Do I have to explain everything to you?!?! I included a "r" after the B.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:52 AM
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138: Ben needs raw meat. If we don't give it to him, he feels neglected

And perish the thought that "Ben w-lfs-n, the Unfogged grammar Nazi" became merely "Ben w-lfs-n, an Unfogged grammar Nazi." At least Screamin' Jay Hawkins was dead when it happened to him.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 10:15 AM
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New fashions would have to emerge to accomodate and show off the hairy appendages and recesses. New products would emerge to keep underarm hair soft, silky, and appropriately tinted. A whole new category of underarm deoderant would have to be invented that doesn't leave unsightly white streaks on the underarm hair.

I can't remember the author or the title, but there was a science fiction story of the 30's involving this idea. The end of the story reveals (of course) a future society where thick, shiny, expensively groomed fur is the conventional standard of beauty.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 10:22 AM
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Harrison Ford feels your pain, Becks.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 11:27 AM
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Gack! My first and last salon waxing experience was similar, but not as bad. She was only doing the lower half of my legs, but she just could not get more than 25% of the covered hair off with each strip. She went over the same area over and over. And over and over. It was insane.

Finally she started plucking. It was a like a slow-moving scorpion was stinging me repeatedly on the backs of my calves. Several times her manager came back to check on the progress, and they chatted in an Asian language I didn't recognize. I imagined she was saying "This lady covered in hair like warthog. Wax cannot conquer it. Tweezers getting bent, please bring spare."

I told her to stop before she finished, because it had been going on for an hour and I still had about 50% of my original hair in place. I paid for the whole thing, though, and tipped her just because I felt guilty for how much time she'd spent.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:03 PM
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I told her to stop before she finished, because it had been going on for an hour and I still had about 50% of my original hair in place. I paid for the whole thing, though, and tipped her just because I felt guilty for how much time she'd spent.

Ugh, I have been in this position. My sister in warthoggery!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:08 PM
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"Perish the thought" might serve well as an example of subjunctives as main verbs.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:13 PM
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7:

Not many people would like to get their coochie waxed with someone barking "NO! THAT'S ALL WRONG!"

You coulda stopped at "coochie waxed."

Once again I am thankful I am not female. A ball to the crotch every now and then is a small price to pay in order to get out of waxing my sensitive areas.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:22 PM
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93:

Short of a national education program to acquaint the American public with the sight throngs of hairy legged nordics on the beaches of the Balearic islands,

Don't throw that idea away so quickly. I'm game to learn something new. For the sake of education. Of course.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:26 PM
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It's really gross when you get a Brazilian and they decide to "clean up" by pulling over the big magnifying mirror so they can individually tweeze every single tiny leftover hair on the entire pudendum. All I can think in that situation is "Has anyone ever spent this much attention on my crotch? No, not one. No, not one."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:27 PM
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i really don't get why i wrote my cherished childhood memory in the body hair removal thread
i blame ogged's burnt brow


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:32 PM
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For someone who has been gone awhile I must say that while this comment section has been painfully funny to read it has also been very useful at determining the gender of some of the commenters. I think.

Still I'm not ready to assume anything just yet.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:34 PM
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150: While I like attention as much as the next girl, I can't say I'd want that much attention to any part of my body.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 12:55 PM
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Becks, you should see if that spa is registered with the BBB and then make a formal compliant. That new rookie should have known, FROM SCHOOL, how to friggin' wax someone. Her boss should have been with her the entire time. That really sucks. At least she didn't do a Brazilian on you first. THAT would've sucked.


Posted by: chronicallyfatigued | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 1:41 PM
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"Perish the thought" might serve well as an example of subjunctives as main verbs.

Or "Far be it from me."


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 1:43 PM
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85: I get that, but I'm wondering what these social norms are grounded in, if anything at all.

Often when we have norms, we have them for a good reason. For example, there's a norm that I ought not pick my nose in public, both for sanitary reasons and to keep from grossing everybody out. And various other norms exist for crappy reasons, like because a certain arrangement satisfies powerful interests. I'm trying to figure out how to classify the hair-removal one.


Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 2:25 PM
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"No reason at all" is, of course, a possible answer.


Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 2:26 PM
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My sister in warthoggery!

Come, let us polish our tusks together! My, you have the most delicate hooves.

It's really gross when you get a Brazilian and they decide to "clean up" by pulling over the big magnifying mirror so they can individually tweeze every single tiny leftover hair on the entire pudendum.

Do they have one of those harsh lights on a flexible arm as well? You might as well hand them a speculum and a swab.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 2:35 PM
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156:

Why the hair-removal norm?

I'm no authority but it sure appears to me that Americans are sold on many of our 'beauty' and 'attractiveness norms' based on who can make money off them.

I'm thinking soap, shampoo, razors, perfumes and cologne, deordorants and cosmetics.

In Kenya where some people are too poor for soap they bathe in plain water (a sponge bath) twice a day and they really don't smell.

Axe spray has proven what we have already known - if you really want to sell something to guys simply say "The way to get females is to use this."

The same seems to be true the other way around.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 2:58 PM
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"Deordorants" are used to disarm any ordinances a person may have of course.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 3:01 PM
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"Has anyone ever spent this much attention on my crotch? No, not one. No, not one."

You're dating the wrong guys. Hopefully the new boyfriend will fix this problem.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 3:02 PM
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85: I get that, but I'm wondering what these social norms are grounded in, if anything at all.

This isn't really mysterious, is it? Men tend to emphasize those secondary sexual characteristics that set them apart from women, and women tend to emphasize those secondary sexual characteristics that set them apart from men. So men, being more muscular, pump iron, and women, being less hairy, remove their hair. Etc.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 3:07 PM
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Men found women perfectly sexy as they come for tens of thousands of years, but now you can assert as conventional wisdom that average men demand depilation.

Those women of earlier millennia would have been even sexier, though, if they elongated their neck bones or earlobes, or tattooed their faces, or broke their foot bones, to make them even more feminine.


Posted by: Fatrman | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 3:11 PM
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Ouch. Ouch ouch ouch. Your story reminds me of once when I gave blood and the phlebotomist managed to wreck two veins before I gave up and walked out.

Me, I shave my face about five times a year. If I shave more than three times in a row during the hot months (Florida: April through November) I get heat rash under my chin.

162. Men tend to emphasize those secondary sexual characteristics that set them apart from women... So why do I see these billboards off the Interstate advertising hair removal for men, showing a guy with a depilated chest (ouch ouch ouch) and a smiling babe hanging off of him?


Posted by: W. Kiernan | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 3:41 PM
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162: This is obviously tongue-in-cheek, right?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 3:44 PM
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162

"... So men, being more muscular, pump iron, and women, being less hairy, remove their hair. Etc."

So that's why women shave their heads.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 4:06 PM
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And why all men grow full beards.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 4:07 PM
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Gee, you guys got me. Come on, this is basic stuff, no?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 4:09 PM
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Shaven-headed women are, or can be, hot.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 4:25 PM
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Once again I am thankful I am not female. A ball to the crotch every now and then is a small price to pay in order to get out of waxing my sensitive areas.

Not so fast, Trippy.

/apostropher


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 6:52 PM
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Jeepers, it is basic stuff. Women depilate because it makes them appear more like children, which is desired because it signals fecundity and a malleable nature. It's become something registered as sexy (such that women who don't do it are unsexy, per KR) because it's so prevalent, highly marketed as requisite to beauty, because of peer pressure upon males as well as females, and all that jazz.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:09 PM
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Adjust 171 to acknowledge the fact that pre-pubescent girls actually aren't of child-bearing age.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:11 PM
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parsimon:

Then why do men remove hair?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:17 PM
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171

"Women depilate because ..."

My theory is because they are nuts.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:18 PM
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Back on the veldt (and in the Utah basin), you want to catch the females when they're young and bind them with a contract before they get to running-around age. That way you'll ensure that at least the first few children will be yours.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:19 PM
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I don't know what it means that Shearer and I have similar attitudes toward body hair.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:20 PM
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176: It means you should mate.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:23 PM
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SHEARER ROBOT DOES NOT MATE. SHEARER ROBOT WILL CONSIDER EXCHANGING SERIAL COMMUNICATION ON RELATIVE UTILITY OF MATING FUNCTION IF BANDWIDTH PROVES ADEQUATE


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:24 PM
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I thought Shearer was married, and I know Jackmormon's dating. Not that they shouldn't mate, of course. Body hair preferences are a serious thing.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:27 PM
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173: I have no idea, will, no idea. With respect to shaving the face, I hear that beardedness is considered to be uncivilized, and that beards are hot/itchy in the experience of some.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:30 PM
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A bearded man is easier to kill. Plain and simple. It's fashion that's driven by survival.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:32 PM
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Jackmormon says that but does she date a hairy man or a hairless man?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:39 PM
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such that women who don't do it are unsexy, per KR

Please, please, respect the is-ought distinction here. KR does not believe unshaven bodies to be perforce unsexy. I personally am pretty indifferent to body hair; I've dated unshaven women whom I found quite sexy, and not despite their hair, but in part because of it.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:47 PM
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As a swimmer, I was around women who couldnt shave during the season and men who shaved at the end of the season.

Leg hair on women doesnt really bother me.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:49 PM
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I was around women who couldnt shave during the season

Really? Why not?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:51 PM
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Shaved men bother me much more than hairy women. ("Bother" may not be the right word.)


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:52 PM
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185: don't you know any swimmers, Sifu?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:52 PM
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Not outside of this blog, no.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:53 PM
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So that they had something to shave when they got to the end of the season.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:58 PM
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"And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, 'Behold, Esau my brother is an hairy man, and I am an smooth man'".

Genesis 27:11


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:58 PM
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185: don't you know any swimmers, Sifu?

I guess I don't understand why swimmers would have a different practice according to gender either.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:59 PM
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189: so their times would be better, I guess?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 7:59 PM
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I think it's ridiculous to do any kind of evo-psych reading on things like depilation. It's just fashion, and debates about why this or that way is more respectful of women or whatever have been raging for hundreds of years.

I like the novelty of being able to do stuff with my pudenda hair or not. It's like growing a beard, trimming it, shaving it to a mustache, keeping it hairless; it's just fun, not a big ideological problem for me unless I'm under orders to do this or that thing from a partner. I've never really found an ideal state for it.

Even leg hair and armpit hair---I don't like the way they feel when they're totally grown in, but I'm not super-careful about keeping them shaved down unless I have romantic plans, and even then it's more for me than for my partner.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:02 PM
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192: No, it's because it's not actually the absence of hair that improves swimming performance, it's the sensory change from hairy to hairlessness.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:02 PM
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Yeah, I still don't get the women swimmers thing. Male swimmers shave the legs to reduce drag. But female swimmers don't shave them because different laws of physics apply to them and their leg hair actually reduces drag?

Sorry, don't mean to be obtuse.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:02 PM
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194: huh! Wild. What a weird sport you people enjoy.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:03 PM
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Oh, I don't swim. I just know people.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:04 PM
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195: neither male nor female swimmers shaves until the end of the season, at which point they both do.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:04 PM
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198 is right.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:04 PM
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I dont pay:

The practice isnt different according to gender. Both keep the hair until the end of the season, then they shave it off.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:05 PM
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Jackmormon says that but does she date a hairy man or a hairless man?

He is currently sporting the Ahmadinejad beard, pretty much, and has just the perfect amount of chest hair.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:07 PM
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194 is officially my "what I learned today." Thanks.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:08 PM
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202: indeed!

I would have learned other things, if soup were around for me to bug him.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:09 PM
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What is the perfect amount? I enjoy a wide range, there.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:09 PM
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204: one would assume you aren't Jackmormon, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:10 PM
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But could we come up with a pithy rule of thumb along the lines of "enough to fill a champagne glass"?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:14 PM
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What is the perfect amount of chest hair? Lessee. A furriness directly between the nipples, so that the gold medallion has something to nestle in, and a happy trail. Perhaps a bit more dusting here and there, but not too much!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:15 PM
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207: and the inter-navel-pube railway?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:16 PM
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I prefer to think of it as a commuter line.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:18 PM
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More than a mouthful is wasted.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:19 PM
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What AWB means is that she likes a gradient of increasing hairiness when going from left to right.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:21 PM
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But, women are agreed that ear hair is bad, right?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:24 PM
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My default position is that ew, ear hair, gross, but then I may be persuadable as I age. God, I doubt it, but never say never!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:27 PM
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God, I doubt it, but never say never!

At least, not loud enough that they can hear you, with that fucking forest in their ears.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:29 PM
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how about thick, hairy eyebrows?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:29 PM
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I like the novelty of being able to do stuff with my pudenda hair or not. It's like growing a beard, trimming it, shaving it to a mustache, keeping it hairless;

That made me laugh. I'm thinking about getting a perm and growing my bangs out.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:32 PM
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I am not an eyebrow-hater.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:33 PM
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216: blond surfer poonstache, c'mon.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:33 PM
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AWB should get a Foo Manchu.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:36 PM
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Let's just pretend I already have one.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:37 PM
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220 to ?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:38 PM
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AWB:

no fair trying to jump start AWB porn fantasies. I'm telling BR!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:39 PM
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Wouldn't it be rather difficult to grow a pubic Fu Manchu? And whydoes pubic hair stop growing after however many milimeters? Is it because of underwear constriction and thighs rubbing together?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:40 PM
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222: there's a lot you should be telling BR.

BR: hey, I'm down with the foursome. I just want you informed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:41 PM
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Mine seems not to stop growing, and therefore requires trimming. Plus, it's curly, so I suppose my Fu Manchu lie is evident.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:41 PM
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And whydoes pubic hair stop growing after however many milimeters?

Presumably for the same reasons that arm, leg, armpit, and eyebrow hairs stop growing after however many etc.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:47 PM
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BR: hey, I'm down with the foursome. I just want you informed.

She does like an excellent pair of eye brows!

AWB:

Next Unfogged DCon: $100 to any woman who shows up with a Foo Man Chu!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:49 PM
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||

I'm pretty sure the Red Dawn thread is dead, but the "egregious plot flaw" issue in Casablanca came up today at "Altercation." Funny.

|>


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 8:54 PM
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All human hair seems to follow a three phase cycle: growth (anagen), rest and shedding. The times in each of these phases varies for hair on different parts of the body. It appears that all hair spends most of its time growing, but in "short hair areas" it goes through the cycle more rapidly, limiting its length.

Hair follicles on different parts of the body produce hairs of different lengths by staying in anagen for varying periods of time. Scalp follicles remain in anagen for many years and can produce hair fibers over one meter in length. Hair follicles on the body, which generate shorter hairs, are in anagen for only a matter of weeks or months. The hairs that appear to "know" to grow back after being trimmed just happen to be in anagen when you cut them

How great it is to get older as a guy:

To the consternation of most men, later in life, follicles in the nose and ear become sensitive to testosterone and also enlarge, thus yielding large hairs. Paradoxically, hair follicles on the scalp of genetically predisposed men respond in the opposite manner: they miniaturize and spend less time in anagen, which leads to baldness.

Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:14 PM
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Come on, this is basic stuff, no?

Members of both sexes strive to look like what is considered perfection for their sex, and the sexes are often defined in opposition to each other. But what doesn't follow from that is that 'perfection' corresponds to amplifying the natural differences between the sexes in most fashion.



Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 9:56 PM
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The sexes are only rarely defined in opposition to one another. That is, what is associated with the female will be avoided by men until fashion begins to associate "feminine" attributes with male beauty, and then the pendulum swings again. This is made even more complex by how heteros coƶpt homosexual fashions, which often begin as parodies of either the opposite or one's own gender. (70's hypermasculinity was a straight fashion, then a gay one, the Sex and the City women wearing lesbian-chic stuff like do-rags and whatnot) All I'm saying is, fashion isn't natural. High heels were once a man thing, and now they're a woman thing. Depilation is sometimes a woman thing, sometimes a man thing. I never would have guessed in 1995 that male models of 2005 would be pretty little sissyboys with 27-inch waists. And they'll go out of fashion, too. Fashion is a response to fashion, not to gender or sexual desire or any of that, though it affects gender-performance and sexual desire. It's aesthetic. But like all aesthetic possibilities, it has deep effects on how we view one another as people.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 10:03 PM
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231: Any chance for nose and ear hair coming around in the male fashion cycle sometime in the next 10-20 years? Just asking for this guy I know.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 10:08 PM
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Aging, unfortunately, never seems to be in style.

But also, fashion is very regional. I used to work with a couple of Staten Island chicks at the spa who would go on and on about how disgusting their boyfriends were because they had hairy ahms. One chick expounded at length upon the virtues of an entirely hairless man's forearm. "I like 'im to be, y'know, smoooooth." I cracked up.

"Like, you're into chicks? That's cool."
"No, like a man's ahm; it should be smooth, and tan. Like mine!"

Ha! Staten Islanders are so fucking weird. Also, apparently boys from Jersey tend to slick their hair back with lots of gel and shave their balls. Don't ask me how I know this. (It's not first-hand knowledge.) And if they don't, they look faggy to other NJ boys, which is hilarious because in NYC, dudes with overly fastidious hair-care-and-removal systems are considered... pretty faggy.

Even between Queens and Brooklyn, fashions like that are really hard to read. I'll often make guesses about students in the other borough based on their grooming, and later find out I'm dead wrong. What signifies "masculine" and "feminine" just varies so widely from place to place that it's hard to keep track.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 10:16 PM
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Fashion is a response to fashion, not to gender or sexual desire or any of that, though it affects gender-performance and sexual desire. It's aesthetic. But like all aesthetic possibilities, it has deep effects on how we view one another as people.

Weird. Do none of these effects feed back into comsumers' tastes and designer's products? Is fashion supposed to be a transcendental element in history?


Posted by: Michael Vanderwheel, B.A. | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 10:19 PM
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Do I think fashion designers are really in tune with the sexual zeitgeist as their source of inspiration? No, I don't. I don't think they think for a moment about what men want from women's bodies or vice versa.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 10:21 PM
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198, 200: why the end of the season? Or do I just not know what a season is, because I never played sports (because my parents were paranoid I'd get hurt or slack off in my studies)?

So does that mean you swim with hairy legs, arms, chest, etc., and then when you are done with swimming (the "end of the season") you wax it off? Isn't the point to swim hairless, so why don't you wax/shave at the beginning of the season?


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-21-08 11:02 PM
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boys from Jersey tend to slick their hair back with lots of gel and shave their balls

Yeah, and the whole state looks like the turnpike.

(I know AWB isn't seriously claiming this, but I'm powerless in the face of my home-state protectiveness.)


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-22-08 4:39 AM
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My guess is that end of the season means "the really important race." You practice all season with the extra drag from body hair, and then get a burst of speed when it matters from the end-of-season shave. But I don't actually know.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-22-08 5:06 AM
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So when an Ogged shaves, he gains more than a normal person would.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-22-08 5:17 AM
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So when an Ogged shaves, he gains more than a normal person would

The weight loss alone is good for a tenth of a second per lap.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-22-08 5:50 AM
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KR---I sent you an e-mail.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-22-08 6:10 AM
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My guess is that end of the season means "the really important race."

I see; I was taking it to mean "when the season's over," implying shaving would be some sort of impediment. And the syntax implied a difference between male & female swimmers, at least in what they were aiming at.

Some years ago I remember reading the published diaries of top American female cyclists in Velo News, and how much they struggled to control the development that followed from training, which thickened the thighs and gluteals. They tried to eat very carefully, but of course there was a tradeoff with strength and energy.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 05-22-08 6:43 AM
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Swimming has two basic seasons. Long course (50 meters) generally ends in August. Short court (25 yd pools) generally ends in March.

A male swimmer might shave down for their conference meet (February) and then wear panty hose in the pool until they go to Nationals where they would shave again.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-22-08 6:50 AM
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Dancers and volleyball players really want muscular legs. A lot of jockish guys dislike jockish ladies. Fear of being outperformed is only part of it.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-22-08 8:21 AM
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