What's your secret?

Goddamit.

Heebie, just be sure to wear underpants. (Which has actually been easy to follow.)

What's your secret?

Au contraire, you should always wear clean underwear, in case you meet a nice doctor.

That has turned out not to be true.

But maybe you just haven't noticed it happening?

I just put my toothbrush and toothpaste inside a pair of underpants each night before I go to bed. Then when I'm brushing my teeth, it's like, "What's this cloth? I'll put it on."

hat someone could just slip you sex, without you noticing [...] has turned out not to be true.

Oh it is true, but it's an advanced sexninja technique. You just haven't noticed.

Dammit, M/lls. Did you just have sex with me?

But maybe you just haven't noticed it happening?

After I sit on a boy's lap, I ask him to fill out a short survey. One of the questions is whether or not we just had sex. Over half the time, we haven't.

5: see, I do that, but then I forget to brush my teeth, and then I try to sit down at work and it's like "whoah! did I sleep on a tree branch again?"

Every picture tells a story.

We asked you to join, Sifu, but you were like, "I forgot to brush my teeth this morning."

Dammit, M/lls. Did you just have sex with me?

No, I bought you flowers and took you out to dinner too.

then I try to sit down at work and it's like "whoah! did I sleep on a tree branch again?" "Ah you really missed me, didn't you."

Metaphor is lost on most kids when they're little, I think. Basic truths that seem deeply evocative to adults are boring to kids. They're pretty literal-minded, and seem to do OK with categories and syllogism. Talking about bee stingers in detail is OK, though.

10: you lot and your super-sekret flickr pool.

fine, i'll set up an account. Who do I bug to get access to the pool?

10: W-lfs-n had sex with that entire couch and nobody noticed.

14: heheh, "bee stingers". Yeah. Heheh.

Au contraire, you should always wear clean underwear, in case you meet a nice doctor.

When I was the age Heebie must have been when her brother was telling her this stuff, I was always told that I had to wear clean underwear in case I was hit by a car. Because if you're lying there bleeding to death the ambulance people alway stand round criticising your underwear instead of taking you to hospital.

18: it's not for the ambulance people; it's for the accident investigators. "Skid marks here... but also here? Oh, I give up."

My brother said, "You wouldn't be wearing underpants."

I said, "Oh...okay. I won't."

And the he said, "I'm sorry I won't be able to be there to see you graduate from college. You'll do fine. Call me if you need any more advice."

Who do I bug to get access to the pool?

Armsmasher.

Holy shit, did 'Smasher kick me out of the pool for being douchey?* I was in, but no longer.

* I assume not really.

21: ok, thanks. does pool mean group in flickr-ese?

Precision in diction is the hobgoblin of little thinking-type-things.

I thought this post was sort of hot.

ok, thanks. does pool mean group in flickr-ese?

Yes

This seems like a fine time for everyone to wish M/tch a happy 40th birthday.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY M/TCH! Hope you sit on something good!

JRoth has discovered the violence inherent in the system.

This seems like a fine time for everyone to wish have sex with M/tch

Holy shit, M/tch! You're super old!

30: And then see if he can guess how many and who, it's the fun college party game!

M/tch already regrets wearing such a short skirt to work today, I bet.

ok, thanks. does pool mean group in flickr-ese?



Yes

??? Maybe in unfogged-ese. Flickr calls them groups, as far as I can tell.

33: well, the first link underneath the name is "Group Pool", so it seems like both come into play somehow.

Embracing pedantry, I'd say the Group is the set of users, and the Pool is the collection of photos.

Did the advice on getting girls to like Led Zeppelin work, at least?

as far as the other part of the post, it would be more applicable to a world in which all human penises were tiny and constantly erect. Maybe that's the milieu of his life!

M/tch already regrets wearing such a short skirt to work today, I bet.

Indeed. And if I'd known there'd be so many of you, I'd have brought more toothpaste too!

And I would like to note that we should also be toasting Jammies, who turned 24 yesterday, and heebie, who turned 23 & 1/2 this past Sunday. (Also Lil Rob & Melinda & Sosnowski & Simon, but y'all don't know any of them).

(Also Lil Rob & Melinda & Sosnowski & Simon, but y'all don't know any of them).

I think we know who Three Six Mafia is, M/tch.

33: I knew what I meant, dammit. (yes, that way round)

also, searching under the prosaic names doesn't find me the group....

one of the guys in Three 6 Mafia is named "Sosnowski"?

We should also send shout-outs to Tut, Gramps, Choom Gang and Ray.

... so I assume there is some sort or private/public group filtering

Happy birthday M/tch M/lls!

And belatedly to Jammies.

Maybe in unfogged-ese. Flickr calls them groups, as far as I can tell.

Sorry, that is what I meant. I read soup's question wrong.

Happy Birthdays all around, you youngsters.

41: It's a private group. Send a message to Cappseus (Armsmasher) and he'll invite you.

I should sign up, too.

Hey, today is the first day of the rest of your life!

Jammies, who turned 24 yesterday, and heebie, who turned 23 & 1/2 this past Sunday.

M/tch is old enough to be my grandpa!

This seems like a fine time for everyone to wish M/tch a happy 40th birthday.

Happy birthday, Mitch! Life does go on after 40! It gets worse, but only gradually and slowly.

Just kidding, survey research on happiness shows that happiness bottoms out around and 40 and then starts to rise. It peaks during senile dementia.

one of the guys in Three 6 Mafia is named "Sosnowski"?

You know, it's hard out here for a Pole.

Happy birthday, everybody!

Happy birthday, children!

M/tch is old enough to be my grandpasenator!

Every picture tells a story.

I will neither confirm nor deny that I was slipping heebie some super-secret sex in that picture. But, the look on her face probably tells it all.

Happy birthday m/tch. Welcome to 40!

I'm old enough to be M/tch's dad legally.

He's right about the Zeppelin. That was the first song of theirs I liked.

heebie, who turned 23 & 1/2

Heebie can't possbly be 23! She knows too much!

Also, a 23 year old is really totally unqualified to determine Michael Jackson's best song.

56.2 But she got it wrong (which in Heebie's case is unprecedented).

56: 23 AND A HALF, PGD!

He's right about the Zeppelin. That was the first song of theirs I liked.

I always thought Stairway to Heaven was the gateway drug to Led Zep.

BTW, if any of you have not yet viewed the double-DVD set of Led Zeppelin live performances, you are really missing out. They are best viewed on a wide screen TV with stereo surround sound, ideally after deeply inhaling some indica.

Embracing pedantry

A form of super-secret unfogged sex.

Also, a 23 year old is really totally unqualified to determine Michael Jackson's best song.

*cough* Bullshit *cough*

Weird, no one but me thought about what the guy was wearing during this encounter? I mean wouldn't an easier strategy be to not sit on a guy's naked lap? I know that is a rule I have scrupulously followed.

I love that "getting a girl to like Led Zeppelin" is this thing one might really desperately want to get accomplished. One day, HG will be talking to some girl and think, "I really need this girl to like Led Zeppelin, ASAP. What was it my older brother used to say? That thing he used to say about getting a girl to like Led Zeppelin?"

*cough* Bullshit *cough*

You're absolutely right, that's not her real age.

57: exactly my point.

Heebie always did make me feel a little old, in all her youthful sparkle and bounciness. Old yet invigorated!

I'll bet we could come up with a whole list of "gateway songs" for various bands.

You never know when this sort of esoteric knowledge might save your life, AWB.

63: That's exactly what I love about it, too.

In my day Stairway to Heaven was the theme to nearly every single Prom, so most people already liked it. Before that I think it was Chicago's "Colour my World" Theme song of my prom.

I'm also reminded of Damone's first date advice in Fast Times:

"First of all Rat, you never let on how much you like a girl. "Oh, Debbie. Hi." Two, you always call the shots. "Kiss me. You won't regret it." Now three, act like wherever you are, that's the place to be. "Isn't this great?" Four, when ordering food, you find out what she wants, then order for the both of you. It's a classy move. "Now, the lady will have the linguini and white clam sauce, and a Coke with no ice." And five, now this is the most important, Rat. When it comes down to making out, whenever possible, put on side one of Led Zeppelin IV. "

In my day Stairway to Heaven was the theme to nearly every single Prom.

As far as I can see, this doesn't narrow things down too much.

Also:

But also, it led me to believe that someone could just slip you sex, without you noticing,likewith a roofie in your drink.

Embracing pedantry. A form of super-secret unfogged sex.

We're polymorphously perverse here. Some like penetrating analysis, others prefer spontaneous back-and-forth or clever interjection. The more adventuresome among us dare to enjoy rough language or even deviations from orthodox opinion.

I'll bet we could come up with a whole list of "gateway songs" for various bands.

I'm trying to think of the characteristics of a band that allow them to have a "gateway song". For instance, I'm not sure that there's a gateway song for the Beatles. Whereas for Bob Dylan, lots of songs could serve that function equally.

I'll bet we could come up with a whole list of "gateway songs" for various bands.

For Anal Cunt it would be their cover of "Stayin' Alive".

I'm not sure that there's a gateway song for the Beatles.

Yesterday.

63 -- No it's like why the government won't admit that we torture anyone they think might know something good: if "they" knew "our" techniques, they'd know to resist them. It wasn't advice so much as a warning.

Did it work HG? Do you like Zep?

74: True. Although if I were trying to turn someone from Mars on to the Beatles, I wouldn't start with "Revolution No. 9", for example.

My brothers, and I have three of them and they're all much older, never gave me advice about sex. I am so grateful. I do envy Heebie her story though.

Let me be the first to ask Belle to have a seat.

I'm trying to think of the characteristics of a band that allow them to have a "gateway song"

Probably meaningless for any band genuinely popular in the `all over pop radio' sense.

Side 2 of Abbey Road.

For instance, I'm not sure that there's a gateway song for the Beatles.

I Wanna Hold your Hand. Unless you want to emphasise the later druggie stuff, in which case almost anything off Revolver.

Now, what about bands which genuinely only have one good song? Is "Mr. Roboto" a gateway song for Styx, or a cruel, cruel trick?

Admit it, Ardent reader, you just like saying `Anal Cunt' even when it isn't transgressive.

(there may be sample bias at work here, but my memory has about a 1 in 2 occurrence )

Hey Jude.

Happy birthday M/tch.

Anal Cunt is a hell of a funny band name, soup. Recognize!

I knew a big Anal Cunt fan, played in a band called Endangered Feces. Those creative types run together.

71: I meant back then there was no need to "get girls to like Led Zeppelin" - they already did. Most of the prom committees were full of girls with few boys involved. So the girls picked the theme and song.

Did it work HG? Do you like Zep?

I did back when I was a classic rock little tie-dyed tween. Now I don't.

I'm trying to think of the characteristics of a band that allow them to have a "gateway song".

1) An annoying cult based on memorizing obscure album tracks,

2) one catchy hit that leads innocents to buy an album, which leads to addiction

3) Extra points if catchy hit is not indicative of weird obsessive depths of the band.

IPods have probably changed the mechanisms of music cultishness.

Gateway song to Bruce Springsteen: Dancing in the Dark

Does Rush have a gateway song?

Hey Jude

Only if you do a manual fadeout after 4.5 minutes, or if the person you are trying to turn on to the Beatles is intensely stoned.

Now, what about bands which genuinely only have one good song?

Or artists for whom the gateway song is so distant from their customary oeuvre that potential fans can't get over the hurdle to appreciate the rest of the work. I'd put Herbie Hancock (Rock-It) in this category.

Back when I went around saying that, in Stairway to Heaven right after the line "And if you listen very hard, the tune will come to you at last" he actually says "Marijuana what a dru-uuuug" and not "when all is one and one is all" the way it says on the lyrics jackets. Also I could play Stairway on the piano.

My brother never gave me sex advice because he was only 2.5 years older than me. He was more popular than I was until high school, when, in the process of switching roles, neither of us got much action. Oh, except I did hear from all the girls at school that my brother's Catholic girlfriend raved about the anal.

Frankly, I don't think my brother is very interested in sex with women to begin with. (No, not the anal thing that tipped me off.) And all he ever did with guys was flirt and horse around, AFAIK. No good advice there.

He used to tell me when I was very little that if I got even a tiny speck of soapy water in my mouth, I'd die instantly. Brothers make bathtime so much fun.

87 I'm pretty sure the "Endangered Feces" name is a rip-off of a Gary Larson cartoon. He had a cartoon of a car coming over a hill about to run over a pile of poo. The caption was "Endangered feces."

I'm trying to think of the characteristics of a band that allow them to have a "gateway song".

Yeah... This was bugging me, too. Definitely need a fairly large back catalog (at least 3-4 albums or equivalent, I'd say). At least some variance in style, with a little bit of dalliance in a more accessible form.

Now the real question is, can the "gateway song" ever legitimately not be the huge hit for bands that have had a huge hit? Is it really possible to consider anything other than "Bohemian Rhapsody" as Queen's gateway song?

Does Rush have a gateway song?

I'd say Fly by Night or Closer to the Heart.

Back to aging, I just heard this Cat "Jihad Train" Stevens song I hadn't heard before which includes these lyrics:

"You're still young but that's your fault," which makes me think of heebie,

and

"Its not time to make a change,
Just relax, take it easy. . . .
Find a girl, settle down,
If you want you can marry.
Look at me, I am old, but I'm happy," which makes me think of Emerson because in context it sounds like "don't rush precipitously into marriage; I'm old and single and I'm happy."

Does Rush have a gateway song?

Closer to the heart.

From there it's a slippery slope down to 'Bytor meets the snow-dog' . Or `and the snow-dog' or whatever it was.

Now it might be this , though.

Is it really possible to consider anything other than "Bohemian Rhapsody" as Queen's gateway song?

This would be a terrible choice. The gateway song must be their most poppy, mainstream sounding hit, to lull the reluctant girl into letting her guard down.

92 Also I could play Stairway on the piano. Hey, me too. Not well, but at least recognizable. "Colour my World" was very easy to play too. Maybe that is why I liked them so much.

Is it really possible to consider anything other than "Bohemian Rhapsody" as Queen's gateway song?

Absolutely. I'd put in in fourth place behind Another One Bites the Dust, We are the Champions, and We Will Rock You.

Plus, do we want a gateway song for Rush? Maybe so that we can round them all up and effectively throw away the key.

Is it really possible to consider anything other than "Bohemian Rhapsody" as Queen's gateway song?

No, but that's because it's the greatest song ever. heebie is very, very wrong, but then she's young and that's her fault.

Rush's gateway song is the first 45 seconds of "Tom Sawyer".

if the person you are trying to turn on to the Beatles is intensely stoned

Step 1 is implied.

"Fat Bottomed Girls." Oh sure, it's offensive, but awfully hard not to like when you're in high school.

I'm not sure Queen needs a gateway song.

90, 91.2: Where does that leave "Touch of Grey" by Grateful Dead? I guess it was the gateway for a number of fans, but it sure as hell resulted in a lot more people who went "wait, this is what the rest of their music sounds like?".

It's a totally different feeling than Led Zeppelin, which is utterly accessible cock rock through and through. "The Immigrant Song" would be just as good of a gateway song, as would several others in their catalog, provided they were as big of hits as "Stairway to Heaven".

People! Queen's gateway song is "Another One Bites The Dust". Duh!

No, but that's because it's the greatest song ever.

Hey, I love me some Bohemian Rhapsody. To the mirthmobile! I'm just saying, it doesn't fit the gateway particulars.

Where does that leave "Touch of Grey" by Grateful Dead? I guess it was the gateway for a number of fans, but it sure as hell resulted in a lot more people who went "wait, this is what the rest of their music sounds like?".

Similarly, "Shakedown Street". Which I was tempted to put on the vanity puzzler yesterday but I figured that was just cruel.

I think Bohemian Rhapsody ended up a gateway Queen song for many of our generation because of Wayne's World.

Silly people. Drugs are the gateway to the Dead.

Plus, do we want a gateway song for Rush?

No way. From there it's just a short step to The Fountainhead.

(Though I have to admit that, secretly and shamefully, I kind of liked Tom Sawyer.

)

106: You're right, Queen doesn't need one. We're being a bit too mainstream.

Is Rod Stewart's terrible downtown train cover a gateway for Tom Waits?

Do the BoredomsV∞redoms have one?

probably not.

`Sweet Jane' for the velvet underground?

I never gave my younger sister dating advice (sex advice is a little too graphic). I did think it was odd when her newlywed husband started telling me about their sex life. I told him that I was pleased that they were happy together, and to be fruitful, etc. I don't know what his point was.

Although if I were trying to turn someone from Mars on to the Beatles, I wouldn't start with "Revolution No. 9", for example.

Why not? This creature is from Mars, remember?

(Though I have to admit that, secretly and shamefully, I kind of liked Tom Sawyer....)

See? See?!

If there is any sense in which The Beatles need a gateway song, it's `yellow submarine' and it's applied to children under 10.

We're being a bit too mainstream.

More mainstream than Zeppelin?

119 is correct.

The Boredoms gateway song is "Born to Anal", duh.

Also, Heebie has totally recounted this incident before.

"Me n your sister go boom-boom three, maybe five times a night!"

122: hm that could be true. That's an awfully catchy song.

101, 106: "Fat-Bottomed Girls" definitely went through my mind as a contender, as did "Another One Bites the Dust". I guess I just feel like the song has to be somehow representative of the deeper portions of the catalog, even if it's more accessible, which is what made me more reluctant to go with the pure bombast-and-chant of "We Will Rock You" or "Another One Bites the Dust". "We Are the Champions" is another good pick.

If Led Zeppelin needs a gateway song, Queen certainly does.

Other gateway song suggestions:
Beck "The New Pollution" or "Loser"
Pavement "Summer Babe (Winter Version"

(It's hard for me to pick a Pavement gateway song over my own tastes, since I don't really like "Cut Your Hair" and the song that actually caught my ear and made me think Slanted & Enchanted could be worthwhile was "Jackals, False Grails: The Lonesome Era".)

Though I have to admit that, secretly and shamefully, I kind of liked Tom Sawyer....

Did you watch the linked video? Fun idea regardless of what you think of Rush.

Queen doesn't need one. We're being a bit too mainstream.

It's just that Queen isn't exactly a hard-to-"get" band on the visceral level of "I like that." They did massive pop anthems you can play in stadiums. The harder thing with Queen is then realizing that there's some really serious layers of musical irony in there.

Dylan, however, seems to be someone you need a gateway song to care about. There's such a massive back catalog, and so many rabid DYLAN-IS-ME fans that giving a shit about Dylan takes some energy. As you all know, I have not yet heard my Dylan gateway song. I'm not sure anything would make it worth my while to care about someone everyone who has intergenerational millions of rabid fans already.

I liked Dylan before he was popular.

I'm not sure anything would make it worth my while to care about someone everyone who has intergenerational millions of rabid fans already.

That's a bizarre attitude.

Also, Heebie has totally recounted this incident before.

But I didn't have a captive audience with their eyelids clothespinned open, the way I do now. Plus I have a finite number of stories in rotation.

127: It's a big step from `We Will Rock You' to Queen II, that's true.

I'd say Fly by Night or Closer to the Heart.

I'd have said Tom Sawyer or Spirit of Radio. (Speaking of which, watching Rush play Rock Band is pretty funny.)

Is it really possible to consider anything other than "Bohemian Rhapsody" as Queen's gateway song?

This would be a terrible choice. The gateway song must be their most poppy, mainstream sounding hit, to lull the reluctant girl into letting her guard down.

If the point is to get her to sleep with you, I think a likable song which also shows your depth and sensitivity would get you into her pants more quickly. But then I wasn't a high school boy, so I'm just speculating. (Nor, unlike most here, was I letting anybody into my pants in high school.)

`Sweet Jane' for the velvet underground?

"I'm Waiting For My Man"

And the Boredoms gateway song is their live show. Though for the sort of people who would even be into their live show, "Seadrum" off the Seadrum/House of Sun EP would probably be a good intro, in that it's a really great track and anyone who hears "20 minute track of three drummers and a guy yelling while manipulating synths" and thinks "this could be good!" will probably love them.

As you all know, I have not yet heard my Dylan gateway song.

I heard the gateway song, then the highway songs, then the exit ramp song.

132 pwned by 98, 'luxe.

132 meet 98.

This places is crawling with sluts, Kraab.

Oh. Pwned, by #98, I see.

Back to aging, I just heard this Cat "Jihad Train" Stevens song I hadn't heard before which includes these lyrics:

Ohhhh, Sir. Soon after my return to unfogged I commented how I liked that song when younger and am now seeing it from the Father's point of view too.

I really liked Cat Stevens when in college and was bummed when he gave up singing.

139 pwned by 136 and 137.

I'm not sure anything would make it worth my while to care about someone everyone who has intergenerational millions of rabid fans already.

This is how I feel about the Yankees. (And nearly all other sports teams, come to think of it.)

A great Dylan gateway album is the "Royal Albert Hall" bootleg. Gateway song depends on your taste. "Subterranean Homesick Blues" is pretty catchy. "Like a Rolling Stone" was his huge hit back in the day, and the "RAH" bootleg contains a version that helps me understand why.

Sister Ray.

(Nor, unlike most here, was I letting anybody into my pants in high school.)

Sneaky negotiator's answer. Kraab never wore pants.

I think "Gold Soundz" might be better Pavement bait for the poor benighted souls who think they don't like Pavement.

In the States, "How Soon is Now" was the first Smiths song many people were aware of, and it's a great song, but doesn't sound very characteristically Smithy, so it might fit the "bait and switch" category mentioned above.

Similarly, "Fool's Gold" by the Stone Roses.

i like best Gueen's 'Don't stop me now'
Dylan, i'm unfamiliar with and what i've listened to i didn't like much

Anal Cunt is the most hilariously transgressive name ever. I can just imagine members of local band Anal Solvent smacking their foreheads when they heard it. "Fuck, man. We were that close."

The Boredoms gateway song is "Born to Anal", duh.

Good point.

Otoh, coming from a different direction someone might start with Seadrum/House of Sun or Vision Creation Newsun and end up surprised by Born To Anal.

Whatever happened to a great Dylan gateway album just being fuckin' Blonde on Blonde minus the interminable "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands"?

Heebie, just be sure to wear underpants.

Semper Ubi, Sub Ubi

145 is good. M/tch is good at this game. No wonder he got into Kraab's pants.

"Like a Rolling Stone" was his huge hit back in the day, and the "RAH" bootleg contains a version that helps me understand why.

You shouldn't need help with that, Bave. God. Also, Julius, no comma in "semper ubi sub ubi".

139 pwned by 136 and 137.

Watch me do a triple axel.

I have not yet heard my Dylan gateway song.

Hurricaine!

129: Really? I don't often feel the need to deeply research something that I'm not interested in, especially if all my friends are experts on it. If I need any Dylan-related information, I can get it from several people. For my own pleasure, there's not a lot there. Whereas I might be tempted to research pretty deeply into an artist I'm meh on if it seems like it might be useful or interesting somehow to do so and I don't know anyone I can call on in case of need.

unlike most here,was I letting anybody into my pants in high school

I somehow doubt the truth value of this statement.

156: Why?

Happy M/tch day, M/tch!

Also, I'm sure what Tweety is talking about. It seems to me that if you are the kind of person who likes Mr. Roboto, you are the the kind of person who would love "Come Sail Away", "The Grand Illusion", etc.

When I was 10ish (I think) I joined the Columbia Record and Tape club to get Styx tapes which I played on my clock/radio/cassette player. It was the kind of digital clock where the numbers were printed on little pieces of plastic that flipped over like a Rolodex when the minute changed.

149: That's fine, too.

Understanding the popularity of "Like a Rolling Stone" can be hard because it's accrued so much mythology, down to the mythology of the Hammond line. This particular live version is energetic and fresh enough to cut through my expectations of the song.

157:I'm not casting any aspersions on your high-school behaviour.

On reflection, I DO NOT REALLY BELIEVE HEEBIE IS 23.

160 wuz me

Caring about something is not the accumulation of facts thereconcerning, AWB. Of course you don't feel the need to deeply research something you're not interested in; we're talking about being interested or not interested in something, though, not about deeply researching something or not.

154: Excellent guess! That happens to be the only Dylan song I like!

Similarly, "Fool's Gold" by the Stone Roses.

Hmm, yeah, "I Wanna Be Adored" would probably be more representative. But let's face it, even pretty hardcore fans admit that every song worth listening to by Stone Roses can be crammed onto a single CD, so I'm not sure they need a gateway song.

Blur's "Song 2" was a total bait-n-switch. I'd say that their true gateway song was "Coffee and TV" with the amazing adventurous milk carton. "Parklife" would be my choice if American audiences could understand even half of the song.

This particular live version is energetic and fresh enough to cut through my expectations of the song.

Have you seen this Youtube clip of a 1966 live performance? It's crazy good, more of an incantation than a song. Slam poetry!

For Bob Marley and the Wailers (and perhaps Reggae as a genre) it has to be "I Shot the Sheriff"

It seems to me that if you are the kind of person who likes Mr. Roboto, you are the the kind of person who would love "Come Sail Away", "The Grand Illusion", etc.

Do they have robot voices? No they do not.

(164 is due to a Dylan-fanatic roommate who made me listen to the entire oeuvre and demanded that I name at least one Dylan song I could stand to hear first thing in the morning while he got stoned.)

addendum to 166: it also sounds like a half-punk, half-blues car wreck. Doubt it would convert any new fans, but if you're already a fan it's tremendous.

169: see, I would've said the Hendrix cover of "All Along The Watchtower" and then stole the dude's weed.

On reflection, I DO NOT REALLY BELIEVE HEEBIE IS 23.

And a half!

I assure you 133 is true. I was quite chaste. I didn't drink either, but that was largely because I didn't like beer and I hadn't yet discovered vodka shots. Also, I hung up with the AP nerds and our misbehavior was mostly fairly tame pranks.

1. "Hurricane" sucks.
2. I had no idea that there was any accumulated mythology around "Like a Rolling Stone". I just heard it on the radio or something one day.

You people are so weird.

167 can be vaccinated by exposure to Eric Clapton's excreable version

"Teenage Riot" by Sonic Youth is another one in the "good and catchy but not particularly representative" category.

161: 23 AND A HALF, PGD!!!!!!1!!1!!1

Also, I hung up with the AP nerds and our misbehavior was mostly fairly tame pranks.

Like the time they all deliberately violated the maximum word count on their AP English term papers. And sneaked a naughty double entendre into one of the entries in the bibliography. And the teacher totally didn't notice!

"Renegade" by Styx isn't that bad. "Mr. Roboto" couldn't be their gateway song, though, because it was released years after they had already reached radio saturation.

I've actually never heard "Born to Anal" or anything from the album on which it appears.

If it doesn't need need to be representative, "Draft Dodger Rag" and "Small Circle of Friends" are probably where people first heard Phil Ochs from 1980 on, and then if they are intrigued and investigate there is this whole other catalog.

I hung up with the AP nerds and our misbehavior was mostly fairly tame pranks

...and anal.

JRoth has discovered the violence inherent in the system.

Damn.

Thanks ever so much for rescinding the ban. I was feeling mighty deprived of Emerson-offspring pics.

For Bob Marley and the Wailers (and perhaps Reggae as a genre) it has to be "I Shot the Sheriff"

I once drunkenly came up with a half-baked Law of the Conservation of Reggae that stipulated something like that no more reggae could be created and, given the difficulty in tracking down every last recording or live performance of a song for elimination, no reggae could ever be truly destroyed either. In hindsight, it was not a very scientific theory, but I thought it was genius at the moment of inception.

179: It was tongue in cheek. That's a noise album, but really really, really different than there later, jazz-y stuff. So you could `gateway' in that direction but it's not exactly coming from mainstream

If not "Fool's Gold", then I'd probably choose "Mersey Paradise" over "I Wanna Be Adored" to lure someone into Roses love. So dang catchy!

"Love Will Tear Us Apart" is another "not typical, but highly attractive" song.

"Step On" was the first (and pretty much only) hit in the States for the Happy Mondays, but I'd pick "Kinky Afro" as the best bait.

Also, I hung up with the AP nerds and our misbehavior was mostly fairly tame pranks.

`unlike most of you' was the problematic bit, SK. I'd guess the above matches a fair percentage.

I did basically know the information in 184, though. I'm the one who proposed "Born to Anal" as a gateway, so I even already knew it was tongue-in-cheek.

I have no idea how the extra really's ended up in 184.

187: Ok, points off for explaining a joke. I can probably dig up a copy of that album though. Not sure if that's points off or points added.

185: "Breaking into Heaven" was my gateway song into the Stone Roses.

"Renegade" by Styx isn't that bad.

I was staying once in a youth hostel in Austria in a room with a bunch of kids from a Christian youth group, and they were playing guitar and singing folksy, Jesus-y tunes in harmonious fellowship with one another. They were following the music and the lyrics from some kind of X-ian songbook: some German songs I was unfamiliar with, some German translations of English songs, and a few songs with English lyrics.

So they're flipping through the pages, and the guitar player starts to strum a familiar chord, and they all start singing "Take me down to my boat in the reee-ver, I need to go down, let me go down..."

I didn't have the heart to tell them that Styx was popularly suspected of satanism.

147: Anal Cunt is the most hilariously transgressive name ever.

My (other) virtual band is called Crude Sexual Euphemism precisely to mock the lack of imagination behind most "transgressive" band names.

OTOH, Dave Matthews displayed a pretty stunning failure of creativity when he chose the name for his band. I forgive him because I went to High School with his cousins, who were introduced to Bob Marley's music by him, who in turn introduced it to me.

"The Immigrant Song" would be just as good of a gateway song, as would several others in their catalog

Totally wrong. "Immigrant Song", with the annoying wailing, made an old GF - who was from upstate NY and therefore loved Zep - realize that Zeppelin could be kind of lame.

OTOH, Dave Matthews displayed a pretty stunning failure of creativity when he chose the name for his band.

I thought it was pretty clever for a guy whose real name is "A. Nelke Hunt"

186: Yeah, I should have said my experience was unlike most of the people who talk here about their high school experiences.

Vaginal Anus doesn't have any good songs so there's really no point in choosing a gateway.

If there is any sense in which The Beatles need a gateway song, it's `yellow submarine' and it's applied to children under 10.

Done!

[Whereas, right now, "She Said She Said" is playing, which I think I'll hold off until she's in middle school.]

189: I have that album! Digitally, anyhow. It totally is great.

Dave Matthews displayed a pretty stunning failure of creativity when he chose the name for his band.

I was watching MTV when DMB did their first interview with them, and the interviewer asked (seriously), "So how did you come up with the name of your band?" DM looked a little blankly and then said, in an exaggerated South African accent, "My mum gave it to me when she whelped me."

God, I hate DMB. My students talk about them like they're still a big, happening thing.

God, I hate DMB.

Word.

Or whatever it is youngsters say to signify strong agreement.

Or whatever it is youngsters say to signify strong agreement.

You can't go wrong with a terrorist fist bump (with exploding sound).

re: 200

A friend of mine describes Dave Matthews as the curse of all music preference sites like Last.FM. You know, where you put in the music you like and it recommends stuff.

Because it seems, every fucker in the US likes the DMB, so you could lovingly put in the names of all your favourite Senegalese musicians, and your top 10 60s funk artists, and the recommendation you get is still Dave Matthews.

Sweet Jane' for the velvet underground?

"I'm Waiting For My Man"

It's amazing how long you can own Velvet Underground albums (like, all through high school) before you ever really notice that The Black Angel's Death Song is weird.

The charitable interpretation is that DMB arrived on the scene just after Hootie and the Blowfish had forever discredited the whole concept of offbeat, quasi-allegorical band names, leaving Mr. Matthews no choice but to revert to traditional nomenclatural conventions.

God, I hate DMB.

Oddly enough, I don't think I've ever heard a DMB song. No doubt they've been playing in the background somewhere I've been, but I honestly couldn't even tell you approximately what they sound like.

"Atmosphere" would be another good Joy Division one. And "Heroin" for VU.

There's really just nothing wrong with "So-and-so's Band" as a band name. Let whatever well-placed antipathy you have towards Dave Matthew's Band remain separate from "Dave Matthew's Band".

It's amazing how long you can own Velvet Underground albums (like, all through high school) before you ever really notice that The Black Angel's Death Song is weird.

Not at all amazing when you consider that the set of individuals who own Velvet Underground in HS is almost perfectly coterminous with the set of individuals who are heavily into experimentation with hallucinogens, and therefore have a diminished capacity for detecting weirdness in the physical world.

the set of individuals who own Velvet Underground in HS is almost perfectly coterminous with the set of individuals who are heavily into experimentation with hallucinogens,

False!

The 90's were a really good time for some music, and a really bad time for other kinds. Remember when all those Christian rock groups were getting played on pop radio? Jars of Clay and shit? I was in a coffee shop recently where they were playing a 90's top hits CD and JoC's "Flood" came on. Man, is that song terrible. Really terrible. The singing is so, so, so bad and mostly one note, repeated again and again, always flat. Horrible, droning, crap. Someone complained to the manager after a minute and they finally skipped it.

The 90's were a really good time for some music, and a really bad time for other kinds.

Also, the middle class was rising, farmers were in trouble, and traditional values were threatened.

God, I hate DMB.

I know so many people who have this reaction. I don't ever put it on to listen to myself, but it mostly just fades into the background when I hear it. Hating on DMB seems like hating on vanilla yogurt or tap water or something. Doesn't register enough to generate any feelings one way or the other.

But maybe that's because I was already out of college when their first album was released.

BTW, I'm sorry I missed the chance to be pedantic like this earlier, but:

I think there's some confusion about "gateway song." In the original example, it was a way to get a girl to listen to guy music (Tripp disputes this, but certainly latter-day Zep fandom is a majority-male endeavor). So I think that broadly popular bands - Beatles of course the best example - by definition don't need a gateway other than whatever their biggest radio hit was.

Bands needing gateways are known bands that have deep/varied catalogues that belie their radio hits or less-known bands that don't immediately grab a listener's ear. In the latter category, "A Box for Black Paul" would be a terrible way to introduce Nick Cave to somebody ("Mercy Seat" would be an awesome one, as might "Deanna."). In the former category, the key question is whether the benefit of a catchy radio hit will entice listeners to explore or turn them off at the "weird" treats within.

"Aqualung" was, in fact, my gateway to Jethro Tull - I still recall the first time I ever heard it, riding in my dad's car on the way to a little league game in Miami in 1986. I now have virtually all their albums, but I don't think "Aqualung" is a very good gateway. I would probably pick something from Songs from the Wood or Stand Up.

"Transmission" was my Joy Division gateway, "Sister Ray" my VU (though I already had LR's Berlin).

the set of individuals who own Velvet Underground in HS is almost perfectly coterminous with the set of individuals who are heavily into experimentation with hallucinogens

That doesn't necessarily mean that the VU ownership and the drug experimentation got started at the same time.

towards Dave Matthew's Band remain separate from "Dave Matthew's Band".

No apostrophe, Ben.

almost perfectly coterminous

It has me pegged, certainly.

But maybe that's because I was already out of college when their first album was released.

Yeah, you're sort of forced to have strong opinions when you're in high school or college and you have friends who keep trying to evangelize to you about This Great New BAND!!!! that you've already heard way too much of on the radio, thanks. "No, try this song. You get it now? Get it?"

Happy bday, M/tch.

Lizard is not a good King Crimson gateway.

AB went to UVA before DMB existed (they were 2 separate bands, the non-DM part of which was, in her opinion, better), so I have to forgive her liking for it (altho she doesn't so much anymore).

_____

The soundtrack for Until the End of the World ended up being my gateway to a half-dozen musicians, including a couple that I still love (like Nick Cave). It remains the only soundtrack album that I really listen to as an album - it's a really impressive achievement, weaving together a lot of distinctive music into a cohesive experience. It's amazing as car music on an empty, unlit highway in winter - a total aural cocoon.

"Fat Bottomed Girls." Oh sure, it's offensive, but awfully hard not to like when you're in high school.

216: whatever, grammar nazi.

it's a really impressive achievement

Too bad about the movie, though.

You Really Got Me for the Kinks.

"Aqualung" was, in fact, my gateway to Jethro Tull -

Hard to forget those lyrics:

Sitting on a park bench
eyeing little girls with bad intent.
Snot running down his nose
greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes.
Drying in the cold sun
Watching as the frilly panties run.
Feeling like a dead duck
spitting out pieces of his broken luck.

224: I'd love to see Wings of Desire again on a big screen.

AB went to UVA

Further proof that Jroth has excellent taste.

213: JRoth

In the original example, it was a way to get a girl to listen to guy music (Tripp disputes this, but certainly latter-day Zep fandom is a majority-male endeavor).

I think it was a little more complicated than that. Even in the early 70's it was possible to buy a single record instead of an album, but "Stairway to Heaven" was too long for a single and was never released as a single.

People listening to it had the album, and usually people would let the album play through the side. Granted AM radio stations would play the single, but many FM stations would play an entire album.

I have no idea who was buying those albums, teen boys or girls, and I have no idea how many of the girls liked the other songs on the album side.

Because of the album 'bundling' things were different than and I think the Stairway side of the album was probably people's gateway to Zeppelin.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the VU ownership and the drug experimentation got started at the same time.

Ah, yes. The curse of multicolinearity, the statistical flaw that deflates most drug-war arguments about "gateways". How could I neglect that there could be a third, non-obvious variable that makes the same group of people predisposed to listen to VU and to experiment with hallucinogens? A variable like, say, being a hyperintelligent child in a conservative rural backwater, surrounded too much mindless Christian moralism and not enough academic challenge?

I'll put that variable in the model next time and re-run the fit statistics.

"Aqualung" was an anti-gateway to JT for me. It's grating at first hearing, and I thought that was pretty much the JT thing - be grating and annoying as possible while playing a cool flute. It was only after I heard "Broadsword" that I gave them another chance and found I liked a fair amount of their music. Some of it is still pretty much grating and annoying + flute, though.

All of the cool kids hate DMB.

224: I'd love to see Wings of Desire again on a big screen.

Last summer I saw it at open air cinema, about a 10-minute walk away from my Berlin apartment. In the neighborhood where a lot of it plays out. It was a great movie experience.

And! I'm dissertating every day right now at the library from the first part.

I believe the generality of your model is starting to come apart a little, Knecht.

234: I'm fitting the parameters to the data at hand. I think I've got Blume and Apo covered.

Knights in White Satin for BOC, though I think I only know that and (Don't Fear) The Reaper, so I don't actually know if BOC merits an introduction.

I liked Velvet Underground in high school. I'd venture to suspect I'm not the only urban or suburban person here who did.

236: Knights in White Satin is by the Moody Blues, isn't it?

spitting out pieces of his broken luck

For years, I thought this line ended in "lungs" rather than "luck".

I think I only know that and (Don't Fear) The Reaper

GO GO GODZILLA!

233: Very cool.

238: yep.

Outside of Reaper, BOC's biggest hit was....

Yeah.

BOC?

Hey, did NickS ever get his mix to .zip right?

BOC?

Blüe Öyster Cült

238: Oops, right. I've never been very good at keeping straight any of the boy-appealing bands on this thread. As far as I knew, they were all long-haired rockers with guitars, though I sort of know that that's not actually true.

I like how there is the spoken word poem at the end of Nights In White Satin.

236:238:

BOC is Blue Oyster Cult? KIWS was, as alter said, the Moody Blues. I bought and kept every one of their albums. They were my favorite group for a long time, but their arrangements didn't sound as good on CD or MP3. I've still got the vinyl. "Isn't life Strange" fit so well with my melancholy HS self.

Read, have you tried It's Alright Ma? Or 115th Dream? It's All Over Now, Baby Blue?

Really? It's "nights"? I don't know any of the lyrics except for the chorus.

Old reggae. Desmond Dekker, the Maytals, the Heptones, early Bob Marley (click the play button upper rt for streaming audio)

Moody Blues are so girl-appealing, no? My mom listened to them all the time, and I remember thinking it was a little weird that my first college bf was a big fan.

245: Oh - Sir, ignore the long hair and listen to the tunes. Moody Blues frequently performed with an orchestra and had a very full orchestral sound which I liked. Plus the heartache of course.

Damn, now I have "In Your Wildest Dreams" stuck in my head. Now that's a girly song.

"It's Alright Ma" is shit.

Lizard is not a good King Crimson gateway.

Funny, I've been musing over this for the last few minutes. Gateway song for Crimson? I've tried once or twice with people, and it seems a losing battle. I tried things from Discipline: "Thela Hun Ginjeet" didn't do it. But how can you go wrong with the lines "I do think it's good; fact is, no matter how closely I study it, no matter how I take it apart, no matter how I break it down, it remains consistent. I wish you were here to see it!" No, still no receptivity.

And things from Court of the Crimson King seem sort of an idiotic attempt at a gateway, or have proven themselves to be so. I begin to think that Crimson is, er, not accessible.

253: Now I do too. But it's so catchy!

Totally, AWB.

There's a great club remix of don't fear the reaper

(scroll down + choose download)

251: Could well be true. I associate the Moody Blues with one of my male friends who was into writing long, bloody poems about medievel or samuri or something or other battles which he read in forensics competitions. (While I was reading things like In Flanders Field, of course.)

King Crimson gateway

Ought to be "Cat Food". In practice, it's probably "21st Century Schizoid Man".

Yay.

251: IMHO The Moody Blues sound was not girl or boy, but distinctive. I figured I liked them because I played French Horn and liked classical music as well. I like the full sound where every note in the chord is covered way up and down the octaves.

250: Also known as "ska".

The first hour of this show is consistently good for ska and early reggae. The second hour gets all dubby and I like it a lot less.

The soundtrack for Until the End of the World . . . It remains the only soundtrack album that I really listen to as an album.

The Harder The Come?

Hey, did NickS ever get his mix to .zip right?

I did; it's split into three files. one, two, three

I have that album! Digitally, anyhow. It totally is great.

Oh agreed. But nothing on anal to anal is really a gateway.

Anyway, I had a quick look. I know I've got it somewhere but my mp3 directories only turn up chocolate synthesizer, Onanie bomb meets the Sex Pistols, a couple of rebore's a couple of super roots, pop tatari, seadrum, VCN, and Super AE.

The soundtrack for Until the End of the World . . . It remains the only soundtrack album that I really listen to as an album.

The Harder They Come?

Hey, did NickS ever get his mix to .zip right?

I did; it's split into three files. one, two, three

God, I hate DMB.

Next to the anti-christ thread at Apostropher's blog, one of the finest things ever made on the internet is the eleventy-snillion-comment catfight at the I Love Music forum between DMB haters and partisans. It lasted for years. It's probably still going on.

I like how there is the spoken word poem at the end of Nights In White Satin.

That spoken word passage creeped the fuck out of me when I was a kid.

Sorry.

263: skankin' M/tch/ll!

All of the cool kids hate DMB.

After all, it's the perfect examplar of date-rape rock.

261: That video is depressing. I dumped you a dozen years ago for my career. You're married now and depressed about it. Come after me so I can acknowledge and then ignore you again.

King Crimson gateway

Ought to be "Cat Food". In practice, it's probably "21st Century Schizoid Man".

"Elephant Talk" and "Red" could also be KC gateways.

Gateway song to Bruce Springsteen: Dancing in the Dark

I just saw this, which is a complete travesty.

253, 261: Well, yeah, and that video is really pansy. I think it was added later. Still, this is not too girly.

Gateway song for Crimson? I've tried once or twice with people, and it seems a losing battle.

The gate is narrow, and few are those who will pass through it.

I begin to think that Crimson is, er, not accessible.

That's kinda the point.

Further to 273, there were a lot of acts who suddenly made it big(ger) in the 80s in terms of mass popularity where I liked the "breakthrough" album so much less than anything that had come before. Springsteen with "Born in the USA", Bowie with "Let's Dance", ZZ Top with "Eliminator". I'm sure there were others.

It wasn't really a "I was into those dudes before anybody" thing, it was just a feeling of bewilderment that this song is what made them popular?

198: Also, amazing live shows in small venues.

Bowie is

clever

276: Right. For Bruce, it's Born to Run, obviously, but many other good choices, including:

Blinded by the Light
Rosalita
Thunder Road

In the not very representative but great category: Ain't Got You.

The gateway to King Crimson is "Epitaph," but to make it go down extra smooth you really want my Fripp/C.J. McCall mashup version of it, entitled "In the Court of the Crimson Convoy."

Bowie is

I'm listening to Blinded by the Light right now. So good.

Also, I Came for You would be a fine gateway. Basically, all of Greetings from Asbury Park.

you really want my Fripp/C.J. McCall mashup version of it

Yes, in fact, I do.

"21st Century Schizoid Man"

My daddy's a lazy middle-class intellectual.

The gateway song for Rush should be "Red Barchetta".

Something I like about the Until the End of the World soundtrack: Wenders asked the musicians to write songs in the style they'd be using in 1999.

Got it - the word I'd use for The Moody Blues. Psychedelic. Here is some of that.

just a feeling of bewilderment that this song is what made them popular?

In many cases, it wasn't that these performers weren't popular before, but that a particular song suddenly made them popular to a different audience. "Born in the USA", Bowie's "Let's Dance", and ZZ Top's "Eliminator" were all efforts at cracking the new MTV audience, at that time largely dominated by more of a synth-pop sound.

Gateway to Bowie: The Coffee Achievers Club.

>i>The gateway to King Crimson is "Epitaph,"

Hm, I might buy this.

In 275 I believe we are witnessing a fan.

This:

260: In practice, it's probably "21st Century Schizoid Man".

Friend, that song gets you a series of facial expressions, culminating in a long stare and agreement that your friend will come back in later when you're done with whatever that is that seems to fascinate you so.

Also, Bruce Springsteen sucks.

The Harder The Come?

Afraid not. I can't abide reggae, or any of its variants, at all.

Commence the Two Minutes' Hate, y'all.

After all, it's the perfect examplar of date-rape rock.

...the latest addition to the lineup of Sirius satellite radio, along with "Heartbrakes" (the post-breakup depression channel), "Dastardly Bastard" (the hating on your boss during the evening commute channel), and "Zero-Point-One" (the driving while intoxicated channel).

I'm with you JRoth. Well, except for reggae-influenced electronic music. And a bit of dub. And probably some other stuff. Still!

In spite of it being a huge mess, Until the End of the World is one my favorite movies ever.

Correct the opening italics in 290 there, will you. It refers to 281.

290: parsimon, you are now my mortal enemy.

296: Girlfight!

I didn't realize until I was rehearsing the Christmas music of Gerald Finzi several years ago that The Moody Blues' symphonic music had a distinctly English sound, like Finzi or late Vaughn Williams. Many passages in the Finzi reminded me of TMB.

At Civil Air Patrol encampment in 1968, whose cadet commanders were a mixed-gender group, homogeneous only in super-patriotism, we were awakened to cuts from In Search of The Lost Chord.

Something I like about the Until the End of the World soundtrack: Wenders asked the musicians to write songs in the style they'd be using in 1999.

Totally. And David Byrne said he couldn't guess what that would be, so he imagined that they had a reunion album and sounded exactly like they did in 1991.

Supposedly he also asked them all not to release the songs elsewhere, a stricture that U2 conspicuously broke. Not sure if it's true, but it fed nicely into an anti-U2 sentiment I held through the mid-90s.

291: Oh it's going to last longer than two minutes, JRoth. Try FOREVAR!!!!

I'm listening to Blinded by the Light right now. So good.

What do you mean by "good"?

Commence the Two Minutes' Hate pity , y'all.

294 is correct.

||

Hey, they have baseball at the North American Indigenous Games.

|>

305: Is Cleveland playing?

In 275 I believe we are witnessing a fan.

Indeed. This thread prompted me to shuffle through the King Crimson songs on my ipod. I'm listening to "Industry" right now. Good stuff.

But seriously, I can see not being into the reggae, plus most reggae fans here in the States are annoying as hell, but does your dislike hold for reggae's precursors? Cause that's just wack.

301: Be patient, heebie. With age comes wisdom.

Speaking of "Blinded by the Light", you know who actually sucks?

A: Alan Parsons Project

306 is very funny.

I have been informed by sources in a position to know these things that The Moody Blues are "middle school girl fodder". I am inclined to agree.

290, 296: parsimon, you watch your back. Sir Kraab and I will cut a bitch.

(And for the record, Greetings from Asbury Park, NJ is a near perfect album, and I spent a lot of drunk/high time in hs/college forcing punk rock boys to admit that "Lost in the Flood" is the toughest song ever. Helpy-chalk may even have been one.)

Speaking of "Blinded by the Light", you know who actually sucks?

A: Alan Parsons Project

As a former fan of sorts, I must admit the truth of this.

I think gateways can change over time. For instance, although I think "Aqualung" was at one time the standard Tull gateway, it has probably been supplanted by "Locomotive Breath".

Certainly back in the day "21st Century Schizoid Man" was absolutely the KC gateway. And that shaped and maybe limited their audience, not necessarily appealing to those that would be willing to follow them through their subsequent explorations. What a good gateway to their whole repetoire is now, I cannot say.

For Bowie, in my neck of the woods, it was "Changes" (which was not really a typical of his work at the time), that got Bowie his initial recognition. (WMMS in Cleveland pushed him hard around that time.)

"Nights in White Satin" is interesting in that it really became mainstream as a second release in 1972, 5 years after it first came out. It was really Every Good Boy Deserves Favour (and a bit of A Question of Balance) getting attention on AOR FM that got them noticed in the States and then they re-released Nights.

296: Ha ha, I knew I could make a mortal enemy. No worries, I just haven't listened to the right song yet.

289 makes a lot of sense, and also makes me think of Van Halen's "Jump".

re: 308

In honour of this comment, I am now listening to Desmond Dekker and The Aces doing 007 (Shanty Town).

OMG! Just got back from the friendly pie date. It started at 10:30 am and ended by 11:30 am. Inauspicious, yes. He was remarkably dull and non-sparky. Conversation was stilted. For an ER nurse and wannabe immigration rights lawyer, we had surprisingly little to talk about and he kept making "I am not a homo even though I ride a Vespa and I'm a nurse" jokes. Like, as if I would be heteronormative. Also, if you know I study race and gender discrimination in the workplace, why would you ask me why the Filipino nurses at your hospital don't advance--is it because of lack of interest? Something about the culture? No! Structural/Institutional discrimination! And why are you asking me about Asian culture. This was like the worst first date conversation ever.

It was good for me to get out of the house and try for male society, but eeesh, this makes me love my senseless ex-boyfriend all the more and I'm glad we're trying to reconcile.

Hey Belle! Did you or someone make your Mille Crepes or is it from Lady M (maybe my fave bakery in NYC)?

In honour of 318, I am now humming the Wailer's version of "This Train is Bound for Glory".

I made it! I got the recipe from Smitten Kitchen. I'll put it up to AWB's wiki. It is labor-intensive, but super delish and delights any birthday boy/girl. The birthday girl is one of my best friends, and really, it's that kind of cake. It's a cake that says "I love you...so much I will make 30 crepes and layer them with pastry cream."

319: But Belle, how was the pie?

DELISH. As was the strawberry shortcake. Anyone who comes to the Bay Area has to go to Bakesale Betty's. I say this to you as a baker. I was impressed.

I don't think "delish" is a word.

Damnit, I really wanted to quote the poetry from the Simpsons episode with the Moodies, but can't find it online.

"Cold-hearted Ned...."
"Can the poetry, it's time to kick some ass."

In honor of 321 natty dread is taking over.

322: NOM!

Whev, Sifu. (and also, congratulations, which I forgot to say to you and Blume, and also, fantastically beautiful ring)

I am not a homo

Guys who say this (and variants) out loud make me sad. There is a guy who's been vaguely flirting with me for the past four years, and I thought it was fine until the time I mentioned something about a neighborhood being queer-friendly (not in relation to himself) and he interrupted, nervously, "You know I'm not gay, right? 'Cause I'm totally straight." Ah, yes, homosexual panic. Gets in the queer-friendly girl's pants every time.

325 is correct. The proper word is "delious". "Del-like" is also acceptable, natch.

I can't abide reggae, or any of its variants, at all.

Huh. The Brooklyn Dub Consortium stuff is pretty awesome, yo. Gateway: Jah Division.

Delicual.

Oh it's going to last longer than two minutes, JRoth. Try FOREVAR!!!!

Um, happy birthday?

330 gets it exactly right.

Due to 327, I'm afraid that all the crazy bald-heads will now have to leave town, if they don't want to get chased out.

335: I'm your guy, laydeez.

330: You have to wonder what someone hopes to achieve with such a reaction.

I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of much that gets classed as reggae from any time past about the mid to late 70s. But the earlier ska and proto-reggae stuff is great, and the Jamaican pop of the period is brilliant.

but eeesh, this makes me love my senseless ex-boyfriend all the more and I'm glad we're trying to reconcile.

Belle, will you really ignore the collective wisdom of the Mineshaft so cavalierly?

Seriously, you've done the hardest part in separating from your can't-or-won't-love-you BF. If you rescind your decision now, you will have inflicted all the hardship on yourself for no reward. Dating other guys will get easier, and there will surely be guys with more to offer than Simple Simon the Pieman.

338: street cred.

does your dislike hold for reggae's precursors? Cause that's just wack.

Even the merest hint of the "reggae sound" grates like nails on chalkboard (actually, worse; nails on chalkboard doesn't bother me much). I can hear some of the old stuff (eg, "Israelites") and think, "not bad," but I don't actually want to hear it at all.

339 Agreed. The label as commonly applied, is pretty inclusive and not that useful. There's some wonderful stuff though.

I'm surprised Dread Zeppelin has only now come up in this thread.

And I'm also now reminded of how much I liked listening to the alternating reggae and thrash tracks on my Bad Brains cassettes back in highschool.

337: Ah, yes. The Country-Wife-by-way-of-Shampoo angle.

Ah, yes, homosexual panic. Gets in the queer-friendly girl's pants every time.

This was also some of H-G's brother's advice. The boy was can't-miss.

340: Not at all cavalierly! And I've really appreciated all of the advice! For once we're being honest with each other and communicating well and working hard at it (both of us, this time), and I actually don't regret breaking up. But I am also glad that we're trying to get back together on new terms. It's all very confusing and conflicting, much like my feelings about Xander and Anya.

Well, except for reggae-influenced electronic music. And a bit of dub. And probably some other stuff. Still!

Sifu for the win! Plus, dancehall.

Also, reaching back to soup's 266:
Onanie bomb meets the Sex Pistols was the US re-release of songs from early Japan-only Boredoms albums including Anal to Anal, so that's the one that contains "Born to Anal".

OK, I pulled up "Israelites" on Youtube, and I kind of take 343 back - nicely like a lot of 50s stuff I adore. Still, though, I hear hints of so much that I dislike. I wouldn't want to hear an album of it, even if each song, individually, was tolerable=>OK.

Onanie bomb meets the Sex Pistols was the US re-release of songs from early Japan-only Boredoms albums including Anal to Anal, so that's the one that contains "Born to Anal".

Aha! I thought so. I knew I had that song, and that album, and only, uh, Super ae otherwise.

339, 344: Doubly agreed, sixties Jamaican pop is fantastic. Although I must admit I did find it jarring the first time I heard the Wailers singing "Teenager in Love".

340: Of course, I couldn't pick either one of you out of a lineup or give a single detail, so weight my advice accordingly. However, speaking from my own emotionally stunted experience, if he wasn't sure before, he'll likely not be sure again in short order. But in the meantime, the twin threats of 1) him being alone and 2) you *not* being alone will often drive a fellow to think he wants a reconciliation, right up until he gets it.

Watch it Parsimon, Jersey girls like Kraab and Oud fight dirty.

Gateau de Crepes here.

Having posted 353, I'll now wish you good luck.

354:

Nevermind.

Thanks, apo.

apo is a very wiseexperienced man in matters of the crotchheart.

But in the meantime, the twin threats of 1) him being alone and 2) you *not* being alone will often drive a fellow to think he wants a reconciliation, right up until he gets it. the harsh edge of desperation is worn off by a week or two of sex and intimacy.

Relationships always seem pretty great from the outside looking in, when one forgets that they actually involve changing one's life somewhat to accomodate a fellow human being.

357: Now you're insulting Nirvana too? Look out, because People of Grunge will also be after you!

BL, I want the recipe for THESE. Mmm.

And I don't mean 360 to be all harsh and misanthropic. It's just a natural tendency for people who are unsure about whether they want to be in or out of a relationship to idealize the other side.

The single person contemplating getting in just thinks about how great it is to have someone who cares about them, is fun to hang out with, and better/more frequent sex. The attached person contemplating getting out just thinks about how great it is to not have to worry about anyone else's schedule, to be able to ask out that cute person on the bus or at the bar, to be able to go out and do utterly irresponsible things without knowing that you're probably worrying a significant other, etc.

353: For fictional representation, see George Costanza escaping his loveless relationship with Susan, then regretting it, only to find himself dreading the walk up to her apt.

For real life, I had one month free of the Bad Old GF, less than 1 year in. I would imagine that she thought I was can't-or-won't-love, but might be able to with some time/emotional investment. Instead, I/we wasted 5 more years together, because we wouldn't make the break stick.

I'm actually kind of enjoying the dadaesque trolling. Makes it's own pastry!

Belle, I encourage you to take it super slow and give yourself time to reflect and discuss with friends at each step. I'm wary, but I certainly hope it works out for you.

362: hell on the apostrophes, though.

I'm actually kind of enjoying the dadaesque trolling.

In deleting it, I just screwed up the comment numbering. Sorry. I'll just redact in the future.

365: nah it's hilarious. Parsimon told herself to nevermind! Hyuk hyuk hyuk!

Ah heck, it disappeared. Probably for the best, though.

Makes it's own pastry!

"its", M/tch.

Ack, Tweety pwned.

I live to serve. Here.

hell on the apostrophes, though.

I was doing it in solidarity with Dave Matthew's Band.

357 is true, but the thing I find that varies the most for people is how well they tolerate the boring times with a partner. Almost everyone likes the parts of a relationship where you have sex, great conversation, good food, or mutual affection and care. Then there are all these parts where you are just sitting together doing nothing, or one person is working and the other wants attention, or nothing particularly dramatic, emotionally fulfilling, or sexy is going on. For some people, an inability to tolerate those times leads to nitpicking or outright fighting in order to keep the drama going. For others, there's only so much of the boring time you can stand before you need to go be in your own space, alone, or with your own friends without your partner.

I never could stand more than about a weekend at a time in the constant presence of a boyfriend without then needing a good five or six days off. I will never cohabitate well, I don't think.

357 is spot-on. Also 361 reflects my experience with my own BOGF, who tied me down when I was in a target rich environment copulation-wise. Still bitter about that. Not very bitter, but a little.

373 is like the Linzertorte of troll spoor.

370: Those look amazing, but I'm tempted to cut the sweetness by making sandwich cookies with the mascarpone cream and my chocolate shortbreads, which are incredibly bitter and salty.

That's not a nice thing to say about togolosh, M/tch.

Oops, sorry togolosh.

375: Oooh, what a great idea. I am obsessed with chocolate + salt after eating Vosges's bacon bar and goji bar.

There is something so weird to me about this talk of having been "tied down" by another person. God knows I had my own youthful relationship that should have ended long before it did, and both of us tormented one another something fierce, absolutely to the point of sucking one another back into the relationship in unhealthy ways, but surely these bad old girlfriends didn't, and couldn't, actually force you to stay in a relationship with them.

You're not a troll, AWB. I mean I'm not complaining about the baked good, just, you know, don't feel obligated or anything.

didn't, and couldn't, actually force you to stay in a relationship with them.

Tricksy womenses don't need force.

I just saw this, which is a complete travesty.

You're not getting the gateway song concept at all! Dancing in the Dark was the big hit on the radio which gets non-cultists interested, which then gets them to buy an album and become cultists.

Some people around here seem to feel the gateway song is the *coolest* song, which once you hear it you understand what the fuss is about. This is not my concept. Although now that I think about it, it's defensible enough.

372 definitely describes a type - as well as an attitude that some grow out of* - but finding a relationship 50/50 good/bad is as likely a function of underlying dynamics/compatibility as anything else. Bad Old GF and I were in many ways compatible and often enjoyed downtime together, but inevitably something would lead to dissatisfaction/unhappiness/fighting/whatever. With AB, I never feel these, even though we're (somewhat) less activity-compatible (e.g., AB doesn't care for sports, participating or spectating).

That's a high standard - plenty of relationships work despite tensions - but you shouldn't assume that tensions are inherent to LTRs or cohabitation.

* This isn't meant to be insulting to AWB, at all. I just mean that some people are always like this, plus others are like this when young.

377 - s'ok, I have no idea wtf you were talking about.

379 - you're right, its placing blame on other people for one's own choices. That's pretty much par for the course for my level of emotional maturity at the time, though.

372 is very true.

OT: The Republican convention this year is shaping up to be very interesting indeed. It goes on September 1-4. On the 1st, SEIU holds their Labor Day Festival in St. Paul. On the 2nd, Ron Paul holds his alternative convention at the Target Center in Minneapolis. And to top it all off, Rage Against The Machine have just announced they'll be in town all weekend (look for another surprise convention show) and will play Target Center on the 3rd, all this coming after a near-riot at their Lollapalooza show.

the big hit on the radio which gets non-cultists interested

Like getting sucked into 1000-comment gender war threads because you were lured in by the Fuck You Clown poems.

Lay off Belle. A reconciliation was inevitable -- I believe I predicted one in her big presidential thread. A serious relationship can never break up the first time through (I think normally it takes three breakups to stick). Now she'll either know if he's capable of getting serious, or break up again with a firmer certainty that she was right.

I just found out that the line "A jumped-up pantry boy who never knew his place" from the Smith song "this charming man" is from the 1972 movie Sleuth. In other news, the 1972 movie Sleuth is very good.

[the since deleted] 373 is like the Linzertorte of troll spoor.

It kind of made me nostalgic for some of the earlier, borderline hallucinatory comments of read.

377 - s'ok, I have no idea wtf you were talking about.

Someone, maybe the Troll of Sorrow, is leaving these weird, surreal nonsensical trolly comments, which apo has been deleting very soon after they appear. So the troll's 373 suddenly became your comment.

but surely these bad old girlfriends didn't, and couldn't, actually force you to stay in a relationship with them.

Well, in my defense, I described it as "we wouldn't make the break stick." But one party did show up at another party's dorm room with a sob story and a soon-to-be-evident interest in (spectacular) make-up sex.

In my case, she was a very skilled emotional manipulator (coming from a super-fucked-up, super-big family), and she played me like a violin.

Plus, once we moved in together, I was pretty convinced that breaking up aggressively would mean a significant loss of possessions. A dumb reason, but the thought, "OK, how do I get the tools that are my livelihood, plus most of my clothes and cookware, out in the midst of a huge fight?" was sobering.

Thanks to everyone, for words encouraging, protective, wary--I know it all comes from good intentions, and I really appreciate it.

Also, I am so lame! I predicted yesterday that I would want presidential pseudonymity today, but it has become apparent to me that I've been very transparent. Is anyone else so bad at staying vaguely pseudonymous!

383: Yeah, it's possible I could change in the future. As it is, I don't fight or nitpick, and I don't need relationships to have emotional "progress," so instead I just take lots of time off. One guy I dated a few years ago was really into spending a lot of down-time together, and then he'd start really dumb arguments about incredibly stupid stuff, like, as a joke (mispronouncing words I said in "funny" ways and calling me a snob, as an endearment). That kind of behavior makes my skin crawl.

mispronouncing words I said in "funny" ways and calling me a snob

Snoob.

misproooonawnseeeeng!

Freaky. AWB is my emotional twin. Finding someone who doesn't mind that "down time" = "alone time" is key.

lemmy in 388*: get in line. Several people have declared this surprising news about the 1972 Sleuth recently.

* I have to write this now, as the comment numbers seem to be changing in an unforgivable manner

Some people around here seem to feel the gateway song is the *coolest* song

I don't, but I also don't think it has to be a major radio hit, and the ones I listed are much better songs that also have a jaunty kind of appeal. Besides, everyone likes Born to Run, with the exception of certain Baltimore-dwelling philistines.

Also, establishing the trust necessary to convince that "alone time" /= "sexing other people time".

Further on 398, the point is that you are introducting the song to the person, not that they have to have already heard it on the radio.

The Troll of Sorrow is back?! He used to bother me in very annoying ways on my blog just because I'm friends with SEK. Grrrr. Don't like that guy.

the comment numbers seem to be changing in an unforgivable manner

They will not continue to do so. Have no fear.

399: Exactly. Also "time with friends" /= "sexing other people time."

403: Maybe you need different friends, then.

Well, in my defense, I described it as "we wouldn't make the break stick."

I noticed that! In your case, I was thinking more of the story you told a while back about how you tried sleeping with other people and telling her that you weren't attracted to her but it "failed to do the trick" of getting her to end things. But I do understand, believe me, how hard it is to extricate oneself from a relationship with someone who is a master emotional manipulator.

402, I think: She's still not going to forgive you, apo.

Finding someone who doesn't mind that "down time" = "alone time" is key.

Seriously, that was totally me, until the love of a good woman set me straight.

I suppose Sir Kraab likes slimy foods, too.

Really, now, Mr. Bruce S. just doesn't do anything for me, and that's fine. Whereas I do have at least one Dave Matthews album.

My brother said, "You wouldn't be wearing underpants."
I said, "Oh...okay. I won't."

400 comments in, and no one has remarked on the ambiguous argument of the catenative verb in this bit of dialogue?

Snoob. Snoob!

Really, now, Mr. Bruce S. just doesn't do anything for me, and that's fine.

I can't believe you don't like Bruce Schneier. You do know what a good cryptographer he is, right?

390 - I understand. On the plus side, I did spend some time googling "Linzertorte" and trying to relate it to my comment. Considerable confusion ensued.

Also, Belle@392 - I'm a bitter divorcee who's convinced that love is just the preamble to heartbreak, but I wish you well. Remember to look out for yourself - "the relationship" is an abstraction. You are what's real and you are your primary responsibility. I'd have avoided both the BOGF alluded to above and the divorce if I'd cottoned to this earlier.

409: remarked, no. But I've snickered at it every time I've reloaded the main page.

everyone likes Born to Run, with the exception of certain Baltimore-dwelling philistines.

Baltimore is evidently much larger than I thought.

407: Homophobe.

408.1: Nope. I resist okra on those very grounds. (Even though M/tch assures me he makes non-slimy okra.) Comity on something, then.

Oh, good Christ, let me amend 409 to reflect that "will" is auxilliary, not catenative. Has W-lfs-n already pounced?

Okra is slimy?!? But it's breaded!

But I've snickered at it every time I've reloaded the main page.

So like 432,682,922 times then? That's a lot of snickering.

404: This is the truth.

Regarding the lost time issue, something a student of mine said to me a few years ago was really helpful. We were having lunch and talking about getting out of abusive relationships (she's my age) and I was saying how angry I was that I spent that year missing out on college and stuff. She said that, in her own case, it's been helpful to think that the person she was, at that time, needed to see that relationship out. It wasn't, objectively, the healthiest decision, but it was the only option for her then, or it felt like it enough that she simply couldn't choose something else.

It's not a good way of thinking about current relationships (I guess I just can't help but continue this bad relationship!) because you don't have the distance you need from the situation to forgive yourself for having stayed. But in retrospect, it's a lot kinder to yourself to just say, that's what it was. I'm not dead. I didn't "lose" that time; I experienced it, I saw it out, and I won't choose to do that again. Eh?

419: snickers really satisfy.

the Troll of Sorrow

Sometimes I make up long stories involving the Troll of Sorrow, my niece, and her monkey butlers to entertain her on trips. So far, with the help of her monkey butlers, she's always managed to escape his clutches.

While standing on the campus of Johns Hopkins, a boyfriend asked me if I knew where "Baltimore Jack" was -- as in "Got a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack."

Also, reaching back to soup's 266:
Onanie bomb meets the Sex Pistols was the US re-release of songs from early Japan-only Boredoms albums including Anal to Anal, so that's the one that contains "Born to Anal".

I thought of this after posting, but didn't want to go into more boredoms ... but it turns out about 1/2 of that album is missing (from mp3 dir). I'll have to sort that out.

||
I ordered a burger at lunch today, and the waitress asked how I wanted it prepared. When asked, I generally say "as rare as you're allowed to make it," because state law mandates that burgers be cooked at least medium. Today, I actually got a rare burger! It was excellent.
|>

They will not continue to do so. Have no fear.

Sure, whatever. Clearly, apo deliberately messed up the comment numbers to induce hysteria and enable the enactment of draconian new blog commenting policies.

state law mandates that burgers be cooked at least medium

It's enough to turn a sane man libertarian.

You know, briefly.

Nope. I resist okra on those very grounds.

You're doing it wrong.

425: And now he's trying to kill us!
Pink in the middle,
Cooked to little!

I'm not particularly a Springsteen fan (who was it that called Springteen's music "the largest irony-free zone in American Culture"?) but I definitely recommend the Hammersmith Odeon concert recording.

too little ... fear causes typos

Pink in the middle,
Cooked to little Pull it off the griddle!

OK, OK all you okra freaks. Next time M/tch makes it, I'll try it. Possibly.

425 drives me nuts. Most places won't cook it rare even if there isn't a state law against it.

because state law mandates that burgers be cooked at least medium

I used to run into this a lot, but recently it seems like it isn't an issue anymore. I don't know if our state laws changed or if there used to be more restaurants with rules about this that changed.

423: On the radio, maybe on This American Life, there was a guy who claimed that when he was a kid he thought that Gunpoint was a nearby town where a lot of crime happened because he was always hearing on the news about robberies at Gunpoint.

who was it that called Springteen's music "the largest irony-free zone in American Culture"?

Although I'm sure meant as a criticism, that puts a finger on one of its strengths, at least in its time.

426: Unfogged Terrorist Alert Level: Green!

Now that the Iranian's gone, of course.

433: the trick is to avoid contact with water. You don't even have to bread, if they're fresh and totally dried after washing. We make bhindi all the time (dead easy) and it's never slimy.

439: So they're like Gremlins? What happens if you eat them after midnight?

Alanis Morissette totally needs to do a Springsteen cover.

I ordered a burger at lunch today, and the waitress asked how I wanted it prepared.

Do they grind their own meat? I recently went a place downtown where the waiter claimed they ground their own meat, therefore they could cook the burgers to order. I'm not sure I trust their meat grinders any more than I do the supermarket's, though.

420: that's a very good way to look at it, I think.

441: Because it would be so ironic?

So they're like Gremlins? What happens if you eat them after midnight?

They're yummy.

okra

Fry slices first to cut slime. Also, lychee is slimy.

Bim Sherman is relatively contemporary good reggae. Worked with Adrian Sherwood.

414: Baltimore is evidently much larger than I thought.

I'm having trouble getting this. Um, if Balto harbors some dwellers who don't like the Bruce, then it must be large, since everyone likes the Bruce? Or is it that it must be more diverse than one thought.

Oh, well.

I love a rare steak as much as any God-fearing American, but eating rare hamburgers is just asking for trouble. With a steak or roast, it's fairly hard for bacteria to get into the middle, so superficial cooking will render it safe. By contrast, it's quite easy for contamination to find its way to the center of lump of ground meat; the whole thing is a tangled mess of channels for bacteria to travel along.

That said, I do like me a plate of steak tartare from time to time, but only from a place where I have high confidence in the kitchen and the supply chain.

the trick is to avoid contact with water

Coincidentally, this is also the trick to staying broken up after the breakup.

444: No, because it would cause an explosion that would envelop the whole universe.

436: Being addicted to radio serials in the late Forties and early Fifties, I heard the credits at the end and was puzzled by "Dialogue". He or she showed up in every show but I never remembered them as part of the plot.

436: in that same episode, Jonathan Goldstein admitted that his father's stories of The White Man's oppression made him think that there was this one white dude, dressed in all white with a white cowboy hat, who was just a big asshole.

Do they grind their own meat?

Probably not, but I refuse to be afraid of food.

Alanis Morissette

I dont care what anyone says! I enjoyed her version of My Humps. Actually, I enjoy the Black Eyed Peas version too. Both videos make the song seem campy, self-mocking, and fun.

450: ironically.

450->442.

Although I'm sure meant as a criticism, that puts a finger on one of its strengths, at least in its time.

I don't know if it was intended as a criticism.

It does describe an aspect of his music that tends to turn me off, but I wouldn't want him to be more ironic. It's just means that it's something I will only occasionally listen to.

450: That's a little too ironic. Not unlike rain on your wedding day.

448 illustrates my rule of "it's never what you expect". I've never gotten sick from a rare burger (and I like them very rare), but I've gotten sick from apparently well-cooked meals several times.

446: Fresh lychee is not slimy, but rather crisp and delicious!

436: in that same episode, Jonathan Goldstein admitted that his father's stories of The White Man's oppression made him think that there was this one white dude, dressed in all white with a white cowboy hat, who was just a big asshole.

That said, I do like me a plate of steak tartare from time to time, but only from a place where I have high confidence in the kitchen and the supply chain.

KR loves le tartare de cheval

Not unlike rain on your wedding day.

It's like eating a rare burger, then getting salmonella poisoning from the peppers in your salad.

Very weird that my comment posted twice. Huh.

454: I too enjoyed her version of "My Humps". Even a blind squirrel finds a nutisn't f#$king annoying sometimes.

I do like me a plate of steak tartare from time to time, but only from a place where I have high confidence in the kitchen and the supply chain

Boy, your immune system sounds like a wuss. I bet it can't even get itself to break up with other immune systems after it stops loving them.

Besides, in the case of steak tartare, all you really need high confidence in is the kitchen's vodka.

One thing I learned from hanging out with the Euros in my program is how to eat a truly blue and bloody steak. It is pretty awesome. But then I get weird looks from True American Patriots.

I don't think your steak should be blue.

447: I do not like the Bruce. Therefore, I must be in Baltimore.

Don't bring me down, Bruuuuuuuuuuuce! Don't bring me down, Bruuuuuuuuuuuce!

I don't think your steak should be blue

You don't understand. You know that place that Dr. Suess always wrote about, with all the super-long weird names, tiny furry environmentalists, and oddly colored food? Turns out it was Europe.

Steak:

* Raw - Uncooked. Used in dishes like steak tartare, Carpaccio, Gored gored, tiger meat and Kitfo.
* Blue rare or very rare - (37.8°C/100°F core temp) Cooked very quickly; the outside is seared, but the inside is usually cool and barely cooked. The steak will be red on the inside and barely warmed. Sometimes asked for as 'blood rare'. In the United States this is also sometimes referred to as 'Black and Blue' or 'Pittsburgh Rare'.
* Rare - (48.9°C/120°F core temp) The outside is gray-brown, and the middle of the steak is red and slightly warm.
* Rare plus - The outside is gray-brown, and the middle of the steak is mostly red and warm, with some pink. Often ordered by those who prefer medium rare and don't mind rare but worry about overcooking towards medium.
* Medium rare - (52.2°C/126°F degrees core temp) The steak will have a fully red, warm center. Unless specified otherwise, upscale steakhouses will generally cook to at least this level.
* Medium - (57.2°C/135°F degrees core temp) The middle of the steak is hot and red with pink surrounding the center. The outside is gray-brown.
* Medium well done - (62.8°C/145°F degrees core temp) The meat is light pink surrounding the center.
* Well done - (73.9°C/160°F degrees core temp) The meat is gray-brown throughout and slightly charred.

About 10 years ago there was a humorous article in the food section of the Washington Post. The author had tried making tiramisu. Layer the ladyfingers; soak them; etc. It was inedible. The author was Indian and had used ladyfingers.

Unfortunately the piece is now behind the Post's paywall.

432: Pink in the middle

I agree. that was a bit of agitprop doggerel that my kids got drilled into them at school.

It wasn't, objectively, the healthiest decision, but it was the only option for her then, or it felt like it enough that she simply couldn't choose something else.

I try to tell myself this but, really, I think I had pretty much learned what there was to learn by Year Four.

No, my only solace is that I met AB just 6 weeks after moving out, and the thought of different timing is as scary as a near-miss car accident.

Do they grind their own meat? I recently went a place downtown where the waiter claimed they ground their own meat, therefore they could cook the burgers to order.

The best burger place in Pittsburgh*, when the butcher across the street closed, hired the meat cutter. All ground in-house, and the burgers aren't weighed, they're portioned by feel.

The whole neighborhood is suffused with the wood smoke. Amazing.

* If not the world.

I now realize that when I said "Alan Parsons Project" above, what I really meant was "Manfred Mann's Earth Band".

I still don't like APP, but at least to my knowledge they weren't responsible for any horrible Springsteen covers.

'Pittsburgh Rare'.

Woot!

477: I was wondering about that.

Well wonder no more.

469: Oh, good. That's what I thought you meant.

477: Oh, good. That's what I thought you meant.

Ought to be "Cat Food". In practice, it's probably "21st Century Schizoid Man".

I was thinking of suggesting "Cat Food". Keith Tippett[s] rocks that track.

I don't like reggae. Or rather, I like Bob Marley, "Smoke Two Joints", the The Harder They Come soundtrack, and old Marvin Gaye reggae-inflected songs, but very little from the 80's or later. There's especially that hypermasculine Buju Banton strain that I find really off-putting. I don't even like the guest rap on "I'm Free".

As such, I feel it's pretty accurate for me to say "I don't like reggae" rather than perform some sort of World Cafe acrobatics a la "Sure, I like country music, but after Hank Williams Sr. I can only stand Lyle Lovett and Bonnie Raitt."

More confessions: I liked Styx a lot growing up. Like helpy-chalk above, I fed my Styx habit with the Columbia record club. It turned out I had a relative who had represented them in their early Chicago days, and he filled out my collection with the early work. I never replaced any of my Styx with CDs, so I don't think I've ever come around to disliking them; some childhood safeguard just prevented me from ever hearing them again with adult ears, so I could tie back the hands of time.

It was great to see them use "Come Sail Away" in Freaks and Geeks for the slow dance scene. I knew just what would happen. (2:16 - 2:30 -- heartbreaking.)

Belle, rent Freaks and Geeks if you need a reason to stay away from the dude.

|| My hair is really big today. |>

I don't think I've ever come around to disliking them; some childhood safeguard just prevented me from ever hearing them again with adult ears, so I could tie back the hands of time.

This is so important. I mean, I could listen to Kansas Leftoverture again, and maybe I will one of these days, and I think I'll actually still like it, but if it's going to sour me along the lines of all the "ew, you liked that" grownup pseudo distancing that goes on, why would I want to worry myself?

I am this way about Cat Stevens as well. The "Father and Son" song Kraab alluded to way upthread: I loved that, still do. Don't kill my dreams, baby! Many people hate hate hate Cat Stevens. Peer pressure is for the birds.

485: That is so awesome. I must rent this series.

486: I miss hanging out with you, W-lfs-n!

487: There is nothing wrong with love steeped in nostalgia, esp. for music. I love Cat Stevens.

: - |

|

487: Many people hate hate hate Cat Stevens.

Except for Belle Lettre and people in Baltimore it seems. Actually I rather like Cat Stevens's music (now there's a clueless endorsement!). But I always thought he was a bit of a dick and it comes through in some of his music. For instance album names, "'Mona Bone Jakon' is another name for my penis. It's the name I give it. It's not some sort of secret vocabulary, it's just something I made up."

489, 490: That's some subtle comment spam.

I suppose it'll get redacted/deleted now, but it shouldn't.

You will need another name for your penis when you use the comfort-engineered penis enlargement device that is taking the male health world by storm.

PS: Kansas sucks

I once brought steak tartare on a picnic! On a hot day! Yes, I got sick! I am so brave, I am like a culinary skydiver.

I think this is the true Bruce Springsteen gateway song. (Warning: click at your own risk).

Springsteen anthemes are a delicate balance of greatness and corniness. I keep thinking they will not age well, now that nobody fixes their own cars and all the sneering white people in t-shirts have moved from the Darkness on The Edge of Town to move to the suburbs. But then I hear vintage performances of those old songs again and it just works.

Someone, maybe the Troll of Sorrow, is leaving these weird, surreal nonsensical trolly comments, which apo has been deleting very soon after they appear.

Why, Apo, why? I love surreal trolliness!

Whoops, where did the link go? Well, it was that Bruce-related Rick Springfield song, but it's really so awful I'm going to spare everybody.

My hair is also huge today. I don't even have the excuse of curls.

Because the ToS is an asshole, PGD.

My huge is hairy today.

This is a good introductory Springsteen song.

That's disgusting, JP.

Kobe said it was OK to post. He has big, hairy feet as well.

The "cartoons" section of the Howard Huge website leaves something to be desired.

And that something is cartoons.

Not that I actually desire Howard Huge cartoons. But I desire to link to one.

I have always wondered if Howard Huge only existed in Parade Magazine. According to Wikipedia, this is indeed the case.

I was amused to see a "Turk Thrust" in the credits to A Shot in the Dark.

Big hair.

Next Unfunkked cover?

a delicate balance of greatness and corniness. I keep thinking they will not age well, now that nobody fixes their own cars and all the sneering white people in t-shirts have moved

I don't actually carry a torch for the world of the songs, and there have been changes in the way everybody lives, but I'd be surprised if there'd been as many as all that. In my neighborhood, car culture has changed its ethnic composition more than any other thing.

The continued existence of Parade magazine is utterly baffling. Do you suppose the letter-writers in Personality Parade are real? Who are these folks who are desperate to know the custodians of Lance Armstrong's children, are willing to wait two to three weeks to learn the answer, and have never heard of Wikipedia?

I have a misplaced fondness for Parade magazine.

506: Madam Marie died a month or so ago. I remember her turquoisey little cement box on the Boardwalk quite vividly.

507: I have always been sure that those letters *have* to be totally fake. Even before Wikipedia.

Marilyn vos Savant, on the other hand, is the real deal.

That is an awesomely sweet jewfro, Ben.

Yeah, the letters are clearly written by publicists, with their enthusiastic interest in C-list sidekicks on sitcoms and the like.

The continued existence of Parade magazine is utterly baffling.

So long as the folks at the Franklin Mint need a place to advertise their $135 Lucille Ball Ballerina dolls, there will be a Parade Magazine.

I have a misplaced fondness for Parade magazine.

Now that I know heebie has a favorite NKOTB song and a favorite Britney Spears song, this disclosure no longer seems so out of character.

I like how the Franklin Mint's website has a "Fantasy" category, including:
* Dragons/Wizards
* Fantasy Sculpture
* Fantasy Jewelry
* Pocket Watches/Knives

This honesty is refreshing, although usually people who buy pocket watches and knives from the Frankin Mint like to maintain some sort of illusion that they are buying something they will actually use.

The continued existence of Parade magazine is utterly baffling.

I think Parade is probably more resilient than a lot of print publications. Its content can be produced cheaply, the printing and stock are cheap, the distribution is outsourced, and its target audience* is both interesting to a particular sort of advertiser and probably less likely than average to migrate away to digital media.

I would venture a guess that the Parade business model is a lot more sustainable than, say, Scientific American or The Washington Monthly.

*Basically, it's the "dumb, but solvent" segment: dumb enough to find the content of Parade interesting, but solvent enough to subscribe to a newspaper.

516: And dog beds are under "heirlooms."

I like how the Franklin Mint's website has a "Fantasy" category

In fairness to the dumb but solvent target customers of the Franklin Mint, the target market of the SkyMall catalog must be even more pathetic, since items like the sting sword of Frodo cost real money.

I once suggested to an airline executive that he should re-assess whether it was worthwhile to carry the Skymall catalog, since the fuel expense of carting around that paper might conceivably exceed the revenue the airline gets from people buying shit. He assured me that the calculations had been done, and that people actually order enough of that shit to make it worthwhile. Of course, fuel was under $1.50 a gallon then, so who knows if that's still the case.

192: I forgive him because I went to High School with his cousins, who were introduced to Bob Marley's music by him, who in turn introduced it to me.

This is incorrect. What you should have written was:

I forgive him because I went to High School with his cousins, who I introduced to Bob Marley's music, who in turn introduced it to him.

This is the internet, and no one would ever know. But just because is it is the internet, you have responsibilities. And one of your responsibilities was to have posted the second version.

That's OK, though, you're relatively new here.

When I was little, I thought all the items in the SkyMall catalog were in some back compartment of the plane. I would think, "Man, I hope someone gets the clock-radio/toaster. That looks weird!"

Wow, I got some impressive comment spam this week.

I have a misplaced fondness for Parade magazine.

Maybe it's out in the recycling bin with last week's issue?

Has no one checked in the washbasin?

521: Aren't some of them back there? Or is that duty-free stuff?

I love the Skymall catalog. I have vague daydreams whenever I fly about winning the lottery and moving into a McMansion furnished entirely from the Skymall catalog, from solar-powered outdoor lights, to shower caddy with waterproof radio and non-fogging mirror, to attractive stone-look resin frogs in which to conceal a spare set of keys. I could amuse myself with the indoor putting green and glass case of autographed baseballs.

504: ben, that's some amazing hair. It makes me smile.

Please tell me 525 is a complete lie.

525: I'm in grave danger of falling out of love with LizardBreath if she doesn't give us some kind of ironic wink or something.

304 -- There doesn't seem to be an Ohio team. My son had a pretty good time flirting with some younger sisters of members of the Manitoba canoe racing squad, though. That 10k singles race is pretty grueling.

(Heebie says it's not to be the Olympics on the choice thread. That's fine -- I may skip the Olympics altogether. I am old enough to remember when people didn't chant U-S-A U-S-A all the time, and you could root for athletes.)

Seems like a pretty weak sort of love you've got there, Knecht.

There doesn't seem to be an Ohio team

That was a joke about the MLB team from Cleveland, Napi.

</cross-posted to Standpipe's other blog>

Jesus, Stanley, you really think I missed that? Now you going to explain to me about Standpipe's blog.

SASK is doing pretty well, btw.

Well, now I feel especially dumb.

534: see? There. You were on Standpipe's blog all along!

You were on Standpipe's blog all along!

And you were there, Sifu! And you, ben w-lfs-n! And you, LizardBreath! Oh, heebie-geebie, there's no place like home!

519: In the "You might also like" section on that "Sting" page is the "Sword of King Anduril."

Which leads me to wonder which is worse:

1 - the fact that there is no "King Anduril" in the story (or the backstory) and that Anduril is actually the name of the sword itself, or
2 - the fact that I know this.

I love that the sword comes with a certificate of authenticity.

Guaranteed to start glowing in the presence of orcs!

Guaranteed to start glowing in the presence of orcs!

Every challenge to disprove this claim has gone unanswered, so credit where credit is due.

Not so, Knecht. I bought one and showed it to your mom, and no glow.

Did my mom laugh at you when you unsheathed your sword and it failed to perform, Ben?

Yes. It was very hurtful.

525: Great post. I also fantasize about furnishing my someday home with Skymall-ana.

525 was a COMMENT, PGD.

there was this one white dude, dressed in all white with a white cowboy hat, who was just a big asshole

Yeah, I always hated the Milky Bar Kid too.

If LB would let us know when her birthday is, we could all ante up a dollar and help her fulfill her fantasies.

546. I'd be in. I hope it sings too.

I will cop to having one Skymall item in my house. I didn't order it from Skymall, though. One of our friends is an upper-level muckety-muck at a company that makes pet products, some of which are sold through Skymall. He gave us a feline drinking fountain. The cats like it, but it's kind of unsightly and a pain to keep clean.

547. From the purchasers' comments on that thing:

You just know you will get up some morning and Freedom has put it to the wind and flown away.

||

I contend that this beats any Modern Love column in recent memory.

|>

328: I know someone who frequently has to say something along those lines, because a lot of people do think that he's gay, and he's quite straight. He does have a high-pitched voice, and I think he worries that straight women he's attracted to will think that he's gay.

546: But there is the Greek Mythology Chess Board and the King Tut CD-Rom Cabinet (only $159.00).

I have always wanted the cat drinking fountain--even though I don't have a cat and don't want one.

I just looked at the link in Knecht's comment. I think that I once saw a listing for a pet water bowl/running fountain that was made to look like a toilet. So deliciously tacky.

I have always wanted the cat drinking fountain--even though I don't have a cat and don't want one.

My youngest daughter sometimes likes to pretend she's a cat. She will fasten something to her waistband for a tail and crawl around on the floor going "meow".

When we got the cat fountain, she asked if she could drink out of it. I said she could drink out of it once, before the cats touched it, but that thereafter it would be off limits because of germs. So she cheerfully lapped up water out of the cat fountain with her tongue, and went on with her business.

A few days later, she asked again if she could drink out of the cat fountain, and I said no, on account of the germs. She got all pouty and asked, "Can you get another one just for me to drink out of?"

IOW, I think I know where BG is coming from.

So she cheerfully lapped up water out of the cat fountain with her tongue,

Not to go on all-fours; that is the Law. Are we not Men?
Not to suck up Drink; that is the Law*. Are we not Men?"

Also, this.

*At least on holidays in Massachusetts.