Re: I got disappointed by someone new

1

And if you all are very, very good, I'll put up a picture of Heebie's ass.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:02 AM
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O dear God. Tell me it's not a slatternsack or whatever they're called.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:03 AM
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Real kittycats. The robe has to be hung over a litterbox when not in use, and always smells vaguely of catfood.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:04 AM
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What an unchivalrous thing to say, Jesus.

Anyway, by all accounts, HG's ass is lovely.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:05 AM
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Dead kitty cats, I hope? Because live ones would be kind of scary.


Posted by: Jesurgislac | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:16 AM
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O dear God. Tell me it's not a slatternsack or whatever they're called.

I believe the word you're reaching for is "trollopewocket".


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:16 AM
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Actually a trollopewocket is a kind of small 32vo hide-bound notebook, popular in the 17th century, used to keep a record of the maids and serving wenches one had felt up. Pepys' trollopewocket is preserved in the Pepys Library at Magdalene College.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:29 AM
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7: All thirty-eight volumes of it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:31 AM
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Can we all just reserve judgement on the President-elect until he has been sworn in? For my part, I will utter no critical word directed against BHO until the first 100 days of his administration have elapsed, at which point I may choose, at my sole discretion, to extend the ban in 30 day increments, renewable until the general election in 2012.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:32 AM
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7, 8. How many did John Wilmot, 2nd Earl of Rochester write?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0375920/


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:37 AM
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Pepys' trollopewocket was only identified as such in the 19th century when an Oxford undergraduate successfully decoded his shorthand.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:41 AM
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Can we all just reserve judgement on the President-elect until he has been sworn in?

No. But we can revise it as we go along.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:42 AM
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8,7: 38 volumes of groping in a 32 volume sack.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:48 AM
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Is there a modern version of the trollopewocket? The FWBmoleskine?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:49 AM
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The trollopewocket fell out of favor in the late colonial period, as it conflicted with the increasingly democratic norms of the American colonies. Jefferson, for one, ordered his trollopewocket burned in the fireplace as he lay on his deathbed.

Nevertheless, the legacy of the trollopewocket survives, for example in the doctrine of "trollopewocket privilege" known to all students of sexual harassment jurisprudence.

Occasional revivals can be seen, for example in the "Little Black Book" fad of the 1970s.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:50 AM
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Dead kitty cats, I hope?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:59 AM
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No. But we can revise it as we go along.

I call it "adaptive carping"


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:01 PM
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6: O dear God. Tell me it's not a slatternsack or whatever they're called.

Or it's cheap competitor, the skanklet.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:01 PM
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18: Worn around one's kankles.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:03 PM
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a leading cause of kankers


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:08 PM
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14 pwns 15. Attention must be paid!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:13 PM
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14 pwns 15

Go ahead and tell yourself that, Jesus, if it makes you feel better.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:15 PM
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it was a clean pwn, KR, but you can fall back on the additional content clause.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:16 PM
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I acknowledge Knecht's added value. Not just in 15, but in every way.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:18 PM
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Pepys' trollopewocket was only identified as such in the 19th century when an Oxford undergraduate successfully decoded his shorthand.

By coincidence, "shorthand" was the maids' and wenches' own nickname for Pepys.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:20 PM
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I acknowledge Knecht's added value. Not just in 15, but in every way

IYKWIMAITYD


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:22 PM
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That wasn't pwnage, KR just answered JMcQ's question really really fast.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:23 PM
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27: Yeah, that's the ticket. I answered it really fast!


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:27 PM
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27 pwns 28. Attention must be paid!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:30 PM
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28 pwned by 27


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:34 PM
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Dammit!


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:34 PM
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32

Four minutes, ned? Really??


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:37 PM
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M/tch M/lls, timekeeper of Unfogged comments.

Speaking of Knecht's added value, where the hell is Fleur?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 12:42 PM
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Can we all just reserve judgement on the President-elect until he has been sworn in?

Earlier today I saw a tabloid headline that read "Obama Chooses Alien Ambassador to Mars." I'm not sure I can reserve judgement on that one. I think he should have appointed a US citizen.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:07 PM
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"Alien Ambassador" is the full title; the appointee is a citizen, but possibly not human (the appointee has refused to release its medical records).


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:14 PM
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Are you a resident alien, MC? You sure that's not just sour grapes talking?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:16 PM
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And if you all are very, very good, I'll put up a picture of Heebie's ass.

You know, those pictures are dated. There's now a wider, flatter model.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:21 PM
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Sour grapes can't talk. Although some aliens who resemble them can, as well as Ultros.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:22 PM
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Whisky sour grapes slur their speech.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:27 PM
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wider, flatter model

Big screen plasma?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:27 PM
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There's now a wider, flatter model.

Rumor has it next year's model will have fins and a spoiler.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:27 PM
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36: It's true I was hoping to be selected, Apo. But I'm no longer a resident alien, actually (I'm now a lawful permanent resident aka green card holder).


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:29 PM
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Rumor has it next year's model will have fins and a spoiler.

We're very excited about the built-in Sirius Radio. But we only get the station that plays the horns.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:31 PM
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42: Did you know it's possible to be a "resident" non-resident alien?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:32 PM
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The Canadian Catholic Jewish Nazis are taking over.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:34 PM
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46

The polite term is "Mexicans," John.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:36 PM
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44: As a legally recognized category, do you mean? This I did not know. Actually, I'm a bit sceptical: are you sure about this? I resided in the US as a "non-resident alien," but for legal/employment/tax purposes, I was not a resident.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 1:37 PM
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33 - I am still here, Jesus. I had to take a little break from posting, as I got myself SO very worked up last Fall before the election, I was unfit company. So I said to myself, "Fleur - if you don't stop the blogging there is gonna be a flogging." (Mine, of course). Rest assured, I have been here all along, checking in. Like your namesake, or Santa, or your crazy psychic Aunt, I've known when you've been blogging, I've known when you're awake, I've known when Emerson has been ranting or when Obama's honor is at stake.


Posted by: Fleur | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 3:10 PM
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47: it works the other way too, you can be a resident alien as far as visas are concerned, but a "non-resident alien" for the IRS. The real issue is that residency is computed differently by different offices.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 3:13 PM
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Only people who actually post can call themselves bloggers, Fleur. We are mere measly commenters.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 3:15 PM
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Speak for yourself, Cryptic Ned. There is nothing mere about Fleur.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 3:16 PM
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So you're saying she's not mere, but she is measly?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 3:34 PM
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neither mere, nor measly, you cad.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 3:39 PM
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I'm not measly. My parents had me vaccinated.


Posted by: Jesurgislac | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 3:42 PM
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So I said to myself, "Fleur - if you don't stop the blogging there is gonna be a flogging."

I don't know how I feel about this glimpse into KR and Fleur's bedroom.


Posted by: PGDelightful | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 3:46 PM
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Sorry for the incorrect usage of the word blogging- when it comes to this world I am just a mere stranger in a strange land. I was vaccinated. I would never use the word measly to describe myself in any form except: "Fleur left a measly drop of wine in the bottle for Knecht when he arrived home from another brutal day at work."


Posted by: Fleur | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 4:01 PM
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I don't know how I feel about this glimpse into KR and Fleur's bedroom.

The riding crop has been gathering dust in the attic for years, I can assure you.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 4:05 PM
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Glad to hear you've been a good boy, Knecht.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 4:09 PM
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Fleur, if you ever want to rant here i could take a day or two off. My ranting responsibilities sometimes wear on me.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 4:21 PM
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Yeah Fleur, what do you think of economists and analytic philosophy?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 5:15 PM
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Therein lies the problem. While I certainly posses vitriolic feelings that inspire the desire to rant, I do not, alas, posses Mr. Emerson's articulate sensibilities. When push comes to shove, my base instincts rule. Thus my undying admiration of John, all teasing aside.


Posted by: fleur | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 5:28 PM
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The ability to tell people to fuck off and die is highly underrated, Fleur. Don't sell yourself short. That's the very thing America needs more of.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 5:37 PM
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The ability to tell people to fuck off and die is highly underrated

Liar.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 5:46 PM
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64

Not everyone thinks like you, Parsi.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 5:48 PM
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I've let you down, Emerson. I couldn't live up to your teachings.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 5:49 PM
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Speaking of disappointed, Apo is falling down on the job (via ObWings).


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 5:56 PM
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You're wonderful a wonderful person in other ways, Megan. For example, if I ever had some important ditching to do, I'd call you first. Or if I was thinking of designing a sump.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 5:59 PM
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64: No, no, the ability to tell people to fuck off and die is (a) not an ability, but a willingness, though the difference between these two may be unclear at times; and (b) deprecated. Surely this is so.

Obviously you're suggesting that (b) is an error: the ability (or willingness) in question should not be deprecated, i.e. should not be underrated as it is. Are you sure about that? I mean, I tend to agree with you, but just look what happens!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 6:02 PM
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Oh, FOAD, Parsi.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 6:04 PM
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Have a cigar, John.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 6:14 PM
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Thank you, Parsi. Don't mind if I do.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 6:16 PM
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Of course I have no idea who said you could call me Parsi. I'm also not clear on why I adverted to Pink Floyd, but there it was, and is. Peace be upon you, Emerson.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 6:42 PM
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I believe that the primal Unfoggetarian throng has assigned you the Parsi nickname.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 6:52 PM
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I believe that the primal Unfoggetarian throng has assigned you the Parsi nickname.

Yeah, that sounds right. You can't fight the primal throng, Parsi, er, Parsimon.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 7:01 PM
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You can't fight the primal throng

For sure.

My actual name doesn't readily admit of a nickname, and I'd become accustomed to a nicknameless existence, so this is difficult. And if Mary Catherine starts calling me anything other than parsimon, I will smirk, and then grin, in her general direction.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 7:11 PM
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You'll always be parsimon to me, because I think you're worth three extra keystrokes.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 7:13 PM
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I wanted to call Mary Catherine "MC Canadian", like a rapper or something, but it didn't catch on. And "Canadian Catholic Jew Nazi lady" is too long.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 7:16 PM
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76: Thank you, apostropher.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 7:36 PM
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A quick search suggests that only PGD and I use the alternate spelling "parsy". Hmph.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 8:36 PM
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Most affectionate would be "r-sim".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 8:38 PM
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79: Some people are allowed their variants.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 8:46 PM
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I believe that the primal Unfoggetarian throng has assigned you the Parsi nickname.

This is so, so wrong. However, not wrong: "parsimondegreen". The nickname that "parsimon" abbreviates, and a corruption of your true, even weirder pseudonym, "parsed him on the green".


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 9:28 PM
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"For a good parsing call 867-5309"


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 9:30 PM
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82: Charming -- puzzling. The whole thing sets off a chain of associations that make me cock my head, as it were. Thanks for that, then.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 9:49 PM
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When push comes to shove, my base instincts rule.

you can't hijack entire threads just to talk about your sex life, Fleur.


Posted by: PerfectlyGD | Link to this comment | 01- 8-09 11:07 PM
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I can't remember the last time I had a truly great parsing. I mean, really teasing out my deep structure and all that.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 6:18 AM
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86: Have you ever tried one of those auto-parsers? Not sure how well they work, but if you've got the itch...


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 6:23 AM
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Auto-parsing is a sin.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 7:12 AM
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To answer Knecht's #8:

Absolutely not, we must not suspend judgment. We must make judgment promptly, and loudly, so long as we're aware that everything's contingent. But if we wait until the atrocities are underway, it's pretty much impossible to do anything useful about them for a long, long time. The odds of preventing any aren't especially good, to put it mildly, but it is appropriate and indeed necessary to say things like "He's a rat-fucking bastard who shouldn't be trusted to clean out a latrine, let alone with the authority to run an agency" and "This is insanely stupid jargon that the conservative machine will use in justifying its next assault on Social Security."

People aren't good because of any innate goodness independent of action. That's potential. What makes them good or bad is what they do. People who've done bad things in the face of opportunities to do better don't deserve our trust and should be criticized, and opposed when they've done a lot of bad things and clearly intend to keep doing them. People who start to do better deserve our encouragement and our watchful support so long as they actually do good things. People with appallingly bad judgment should be labeled as fools. And so forth and so on. Some of these folks should be making John's hogs happy now, and all of the rest should feel little trotters upon their jammy-clad feet from time to time.

Avedon Carol rightly points out that FDR faced the threat of general strikes, and that this helped push him leftward. It's a damn shame we can't get that going again. But what we can and should do is push for your wishes and goals just as enthusiastically and persistently as the noise machine does for what its masters want. We should definitely smile at the good, and point and say "That seems a really good choice", and things like that when there's good stuff announced. But that has to go hand in hand with doing whatever we can to resist the bad as early as possible.

Obama should start off with no slack, and earn some by doing good things and not doing bad ones.


Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 7:48 AM
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Knecht's #9, even. What's a digit among friends, as they say in the cinematic Yakuza?


Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 7:49 AM
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Of course I have no idea who said you could call me Parsi.
i said maybe, so 72, 73 it's starting to work, the my spell, i'm telepathic
though i thought one should better abbreviate P
i feel a bit jealousily-like that nobody calls me something -y, better R of course
only ToS called me readchen once, which was very nice
i got deleted at forvo, i was to delete myself, just didn't find how to do that, now feel as if i was a troll


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 8:18 AM
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You know, something I've wanted to ask: are you 'read' rhyming with 'bead', as in what you would tell someone to do if you wanted them to open a book and begin reading it's contends, or are you 'read' rhyming with 'bread', as in the past tense of the same word?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 8:34 AM
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I have no idea where "it's contends" for "its contents" came from, and apologize to the Internet at large for my illiteracy.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 8:42 AM
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the present tense, please


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 8:44 AM
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82: Should we be calling Parsi "Lady Mondegreen", then?


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 8:49 AM
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"Parsi" turns into Kipling's "How the Rhinoceros Got Its Coat" for me:

Them that takes cakes,
That the Parsi-man bakes,
Makes dreadful mistakes.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 9:35 AM
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Why did they delete you, read-chan?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 9:43 AM
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Readchin, your internet name is hard to nickname.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 9:50 AM
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b/c of the too noisy background noise maybe, there is no any notification why
i thought it could be nice if there were translation of the word and the function when users could edit or delete what they submitted, can do that before submitting
our equivalent of -y is aa, or oo, ii, the last vowels get prolonged, it's difficult in English names coz all names end on consonants, but you can add
Ned becomes Nedee for example
97, 98 nice, CN&JE, what's chin? from what language i mean, if +chik it's Russian


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 9:58 AM
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-chin / -chen are German. Maybe -kin too. I believe they're all specialized to young women.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:05 AM
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Actually a trollopewocket is a kind of small 32vo hide-bound notebook, popular in the 17th century, used to keep a record of the maids and serving wenches one had felt up.

I am so using this definition the next time I play Dictionary.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:10 AM
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101: These days you can just get a web app to keep track of such things.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:12 AM
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But adding "kin" to things in English is (was, archaic) not specialized to young women. E.G. "Where is Thumbkin?"

"lambkin"
"manikin"


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:13 AM
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"trollopewocket" really is an attractive nuisance for those of us inclined to invent definitions. Possibly that's what it means.


Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:15 AM
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Readikin she is, so as not to be sexists.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:16 AM
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106

I fully endorse #89. I would offer as a friendly amendment that we should avoid the "omigod Obama is the worst person ever" characterizations which just take us back into the never-ending "is he is or is he ain't the messiah" debate. What we should be doing, as Bruce says, is opposing his bad choices loudly and in places where other people might actually hear us so we can shift the frame left, even a little bit.

Also, general strike next Wednesday! Pass it on.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:23 AM
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106: Are we demanding anything, or do we just want the day off?

I'm engaged in my own personal work slowdown right now. That'll show'em.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:29 AM
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103: It isn't in German, either. (It also makes the word it modifies neuter, which is always fun for beginning students learning the word 'girl.')


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:33 AM
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I'm engaged in my own personal work slowdown right now. That'll show'em.

This is unfogged. Aren't we all?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:34 AM
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110

Our demands:

- Social democracy
- Cookies and milk every day at 3 o'clock

That ought to do it.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:36 AM
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111

Also, general strike next Wednesday! Pass it on.

The general prohibition of political strikes is one of the few provisions of the Taft-Hartley Act that I actually approve of.

Can we still be friends, Kraabie?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:36 AM
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112

With gluten-free cookies, soy milk, and rice milk options, natch.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:37 AM
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111:The general prohibition of political strikes is one of the few provisions of the Taft-Hartley Act that I actually approve of.

Don't know about Kraab, but you lost me.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:38 AM
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114

111: Against the wall, motherfucker.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:38 AM
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With gluten-free cookies, soy milk, and rice milk options, natch.

This perfectly sums up the decay of the left since the glory days of the 1930s.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:39 AM
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111: Isn't that sort of like making civil disobedience illegal? Which would be up there with criminalizing crime in the Big Book of Redundant Things Which are Redundant.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:41 AM
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Don't know about Kraab, but you lost me.

I don't think I ever had you Bob, and I think we both prefer it that way.

116 I don't understand at all. There are countries where political strikes are permitted, even commonplace, and countries where they are prohibited. Some of the countries where they are prohibited have among the highest living standards and strongest social safety nets in the world, so I don't think it is a betrayal of social democratic principles to oppose them.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:46 AM
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115: Actually, it turns out that letting people have choices within a compassionate welfare state is not counterrevolutionary.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:46 AM
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119

118: Sir Kraab is New Labour!


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:49 AM
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117.2 Let me have those things and I'll think about giving back the right to a political strike.

I thought about it: no.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:49 AM
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117 - To me, a strike looks like something on the same continuum as civil disobedience - you have a bunch of people simply refusing to play by the established rules in order to bring about change.

Banning general strikes just means the a general strike becomes actual civil disobedience rather than something related to it.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:51 AM
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120: How about I give you card check and the right to sympathy strikes and secondary picketing? And if you sign right now, I'll even throw in mandatory arbitration and a ban on lockouts.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:56 AM
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Tommy and Tuppence were always foiling general strikes. It's why my 10-year-old self hated them so.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:56 AM
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There's a lot of mid-century English fiction I read when I was younger that in retrospect has a lot of only very thinly veiled class antagonism going on, from a threatened upper-middle-class point of view.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 10:59 AM
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Some of the countries where they are prohibited have among the highest living standards and strongest social safety nets in the world, so I don't think it is a betrayal of social democratic principles to oppose them.

Also, this kind of non-argument is beneath you.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:00 AM
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I'll take 122.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:00 AM
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Despite doing some Taft-hartley work on behalf of Health and Welfare funds and Pension Funds for a couple of years AND doing Workers' Comp for a couple of years, I know so little about workers' rights other than, in Virginia, they have NONE.

Yet, most people believe that their employer cannot fire them without cause or let them go without severance.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:05 AM
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124: quelle surprise!


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:05 AM
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Yet, most people believe that their employer cannot fire them without cause or let them go without severance.

What most people believe and what is actually true is often at variance though, isn't it?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:06 AM
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Actually a trollopewocket is a kind of small 32vo hide-bound notebook, popular in the 17th century

Sadly, it's 32mo. Technically.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:08 AM
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True.

But, mostly, it is because employers (and their associations) have lots more money to mount public relations campaigns, both subtle and direct.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:09 AM
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Banning general strikes just means the a general strike becomes actual civil disobedience rather than something related to it.

Which is exactly how it should be. I don't have a problem with political strikes as an extreme measure (just shy of armed insurrection) in opposition to a tyrannical government (say, in response to a coup). What I don't want them to become is a routine instrument of influencing legislation alongside a functioning democratic order. I'm a little too Nordic in my tastes for such Mediterranean chaos.

More seriously, I'm not comfortable with particular privileged groups of employees (who happen to sit astride a chokepoint in the economy) being able to influence public policy above and beyond their electoral strength. If the United Mine Workers want to strike to win higher pay from the coal operators, more power to them. If they want to strike to pressure Congress into weakening emissions regulations, that's not OK. And don't be fooled into thinking that political strikes would all be in favor of laudable goals like national health care; they are just as likely to be in support of the particularistic interests of small, cohesive interest groups.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:09 AM
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Every time I see parsimon's name, my eyes roll back a little and I think "mmmmmmm books." And I imagine myself in a room with books on shelves from floor to very high ceiling, and ladders to get to the upper shelves.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:11 AM
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Knecht is mostly concerned about modern Lysistratas.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:13 AM
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KR: so you're happier with the current system where the p"articular privileged groups able to influence public policy above and beyond their electoral strength" primarily do not come from the working class?

I'm not in disagreement that such strikes may be a problem in cases lik you mention, but our "functioning democratic order" is extremely likely "support of the particularistic interests of small, cohesive interest groups." at current.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:17 AM
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Kraab should have gone to Mt. Holyoke for the M&C.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:17 AM
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this kind of non-argument is beneath you

Fair enough. I didn't actually state the argument, which is hard to summarize briefly, but basically holds that the optimal structure of organized labor is to be as solidaristic as possible (i.e. no artificial divisions among crafts, skill levels, etc.), and that political strikes risk promoting particularism rather than solidarity in the labor movement.

so you're happier with the current system where the p"articular privileged groups able to influence public policy above and beyond their electoral strength" primarily do not come from the working class?

Not in the slightest! But I prefer that the labor movement influence the government through mobilizing voters and raising campaign funds rather than launching strike actions. Save the strike lever for collective barganing.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:24 AM
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132: I see your point. I'm going to pretend to disagree, though, because I don't want to be shot by McManus and Kraab.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:25 AM
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Not in the slightest! But I prefer that the labor movement influence the government through mobilizing voters and raising campaign funds rather than launching strike actions.

Ok, I can see where you are coming from, but it also seems to be taking a pretty rose-colored view of the current position of labor in the US, which has been very effectively, and very intentionally marginalized. So out of curiosity, how would you feel about political strikes specifically aimed at improving labor law?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:30 AM
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I'm just curious, by the way, I don't know enough about this stuff to have a very strong opinion. It does seem to be a bit strange to draw parallels with any european country with strong labor (politically active or not)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 11:32 AM
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I thought a trollopewocket was a 19th-century antecedent of a work of short fiction by Dr. Seuss.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 1:16 PM
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Actually, it turns out that letting people have choices within a compassionate welfare state is not counterrevolutionary.

Choices of soy milk and gluten-free cookies are counterrevolutionary. Choices of double-stuff oreos, white chocolate and macademia nut, iced ginger cookies (the big soft kind, not the little hard gingersnaps)...these are revolutionary. The libido wants to be free, this is the revolution.


Posted by: PGDelightful | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 3:30 PM
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Choices of soy milk and gluten-free cookies are counterrevolutionary.

Truth. Come the revolution I will be happy to be put against the wall in lieu of eating gluten free cookies and drinking soy milk. In their bloodlust, the mob will probably insist on both before the final outrage.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 3:34 PM
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Regular milk causes a gloopy feeling at the back of the throat. We will have to pass on the milk with the cookies if there is not soy milk available. I don't like cookies or sweets in general much either. It's terrible not to be in touch with the general populace when they call for milk and cookies.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 3:42 PM
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soy milk is getting a bum rap in this thread.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 3:44 PM
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143: I will keep my delicious coconut macaroons and meringues to myself, then. The fact that you're avoiding a particular ingredient doesn't have to make the resulting food nasty.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 3:45 PM
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First the tasty treats. Then the lynching. On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 3:59 PM
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who's lynching?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 4:00 PM
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148:Generally people who want to repeal the 1st Amendment, those parts about free asssembly and right of association.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 5:43 PM
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Rochester General Strike of 1945.

Some of us have learned that when liberals set their limits to freedom at the points where freedom gets messy, or inconvenient (even for one day), or uncomfortable, or expensive...that the core values of liberals really have nothing to do with freedom.

Gandhi & MLK understood that it was the ugly pictures & stories that would eventually get them their freedoms, not principles or bourgeois consciences.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 7:16 PM
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I never realized it was possible for labor strikes to be used for political ends rather than labor-related ends. This is an interesting idea.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 7:18 PM
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God Bless Harry Truman


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 7:28 PM
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151:I think under TF, such strikes are illegal. In any case, there are so many procedural hurdles and executive powers they might as well be.

This will of course be mostly enforced against leaders and organizers, in another breach of the 1st amendment.

I am no expert on labour or 1st amendment law of course.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 01- 9-09 7:32 PM
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