Re: And that sour-milk smell that pervades your clothes and bedding. Mmmmm.

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Also my visions of motherhood are wildly more rosy-colored than they were six months ago. Let's keep the fantasy alive!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:07 AM
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Another cool thing about breastfeeding is that you can squirt milk a surprising distance. It's weird, but entertaining (like, I felt sudden sympathy for the whole boy-pissing-in-the-snow thing).

But seriously, it sounds like you've got the attitude right -- breastfeeding is going to mean having a limpet attached to you for hours a day, and if you don't make it pleasant, it'll be really annoying. Find yourself a comfortable spot to nest, lay in TV to watch, magazines to read, and so on (yes, there's a certain amount of communing with your beautiful, perfect baby, but there's only so many hours of that you can probably put in without some other entertainment). Oh, and if you're like me, nursing will make you thirstier than you can possibly imagine -- making sure there's an awful lot of water within reach or someone to bring it to you is key.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:16 AM
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2: My second-hand experience bears out LB's advice. R's pretty much never without her Camelbak.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:36 AM
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One of the things I miss most about having infants (my kids are 8 and 5 years old) is slowing life down to breastfeed. It was even better with baby #2.


Posted by: Nancy | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:37 AM
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That sounds nice. Maybe I should take up smoking....


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:37 AM
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Cigarettes don't wake you up in the middle of the night, crying for you to smoke them.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:40 AM
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Your post is spot on about all the wonderful things about smoking (except, in these parts, sometimes it's more standing in subzero windchills rather than out in the sun). As someone who has quit/is perpetually in the process of quitting, I have to say that I now really want to go hang outside fidgeting among strangers for five minutes. Thanks alot.

And yes, for the same reasons, I am now also sentimentally reminiscing about nursing. Fortunately, I'm pretty confident in my ability to resist the temptation to run out and pick that habit back up

Seconding LB on having liquids constantly on hand. If you are like me, those liquids should preferably be quart-sized chocolate shakes. More than the thirstiness, I remember the constant ravenous hunger. I think more than the quality mother-child bonding, I really miss the losing weight on a 4000 calorie a day diet thing....


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:41 AM
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4: That was nice. "In order to provide life-giving nourishment to my baby, I must sit in this comfortable chair with a book and something to drink for an indefinite period of time. It's my maternal duty, I tell you!"

Newt was really pissy about letting me read -- he'd refuse to nurse unless he thought I was focusing. I could slip TV past him though, it was too far away for him to figure out what was going on. Sally's lucky she doesn't have permanent marks on her face from my resting books on her head, though.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:42 AM
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Breastfeeding is pretty much the opposite of smoking.

Yeah, but it does give you something to do with your mouth.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:42 AM
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6: I have known some multiple-pack-a-day smokers who would disagree with you about this.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:43 AM
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God, I miss smoking.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:44 AM
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I think more than the quality mother-child bonding, I really miss the losing weight on a 4000 calorie a day diet thing....

I got the famine-resistant-metabolism reaction to breastfeeding. "Oh, you're responsible for nourishing another human being? Let's tweak the system to make sure you retain every possible vestige of caloric value in your food -- got to keep those fat reserves up." Which, eh, but breastfeeding as weightloss is definitely a matter on which mileages vary.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:44 AM
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11: Maybe you could take up breastfeeding as a substitute?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:45 AM
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Breastfeeding is pretty much the opposite of smoking.

Maybe for the mother.

On preview, pwned by zadfrack. Oh well.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:52 AM
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Actually, I'm taking an involuntary break from smoking due to a cold, or maybe it was even a mild flu. Over the past couple days I didn't need to suck up carcinogens to get a respiratory workout, I was coughing and hacking enough on my own. Today I'm feeling better, though.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 11:57 AM
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2&3: Ditto. Nursing is thirsty work.

For me, though, it wasn't particularly relaxing or even very pleasant for the first month or so. I remember thinking all the blissed-out "nursing is teh awesome!" moms had to be secret masochists. But once the wee lad & I both got the hang of it, things improved quite a bit. Now I'm looking toward the weaning time with some trepidation.


Posted by: Bonsaisue | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 12:13 PM
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I am not going to talk about AB's nursing experiences, as I don't want to harsh H-G's anticipatory mellow. But the thirst thing really is funny - Kai will be screaming his head off, but she won't start until the water is within reach, lest she expire from dehydration in the time it takes me to fetch a glass.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 12:32 PM
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My wife also had a very challenging time breastfeeding at first, and very nearly gave up. But then it grew to become one of her favorite baby-bonding activities. I'm told that pumping absolutely sucks, however.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 12:34 PM
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God, yes, smoking. I was never a heavy smoker, but smoking is so bloody nice, it really is.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 12:41 PM
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It does, kind of. I had a hand-pump and pumped some, but doing it regularly seems like it'd be really an unpleasant hassle.

I'm no use on breastfeeding difficulties -- Sally and Newt both seemed to know the score pretty well.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 12:42 PM
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Smoking is the most appealing habit, isn't it. I really never smoked at all -- less than fifty cigarettes lifetime, probably (almost all of them in the Peace Corps, where everyone I knew smoked). And still, awhile back, I was out with a bunch of blog people, and at the end of the night, probably ten years after my last cigarette, bummed one and really enjoyed it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 12:52 PM
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18: Pumping also got easier over time, for me. Plus, it was a nice forced break at work (much like smoking, though without the sun and rose-smelling).


Posted by: Bonsaisue | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 12:53 PM
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It's even a recurring minor theme in my dreams: I'm having some dream, and I happen to be a smoker. I vaguely think that I should quit, but mostly I'm just a smoker having whatever dream I'm having.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 12:56 PM
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This thread is making me crave a cigarette sooo much.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 12:57 PM
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I quit back at the beginning of the year primarily to save money, but also because I'm the same age my (extremely health-conscious, never smoked) father was when he died of cancer and I've got three kids and had been smoking for almost 25 years. But, I never had even one single smoking-related health symptom beyond yellowish teeth. No shortness of breath, no morning cough, no increased susceptibility to colds, no sinus issues, no nothing. So I don't even have the "Oh, I feel so much better" thing going for me. I'm just fatter and spent a month snapping at my wife and kids.

On the other hand, it's a pretty significant cost savings, and they just hiked the shit out of the excise tax on cigarettes, so there's that.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:07 PM
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24: This thread makes me want to breastfeed so much.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:11 PM
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25: Did you notice getting your sense of smell/taste back? Everyone I know who's quit has commented on that one.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:12 PM
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||
Is there a polite/inoffensive way to tell someone that his or her (her) crotch smells terrible and that he or she (she) might want to talk to a doctor, or something?
|>


Posted by: John F. Kennedy | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:13 PM
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27: The only thing I've noticed is that I can now smell when a smoker has been in the elevator before me. Otherwise, can't say that I've noticed much change there either.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:16 PM
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28. No.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:17 PM
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28: Is it somebody you've got a history with? Because then you could just say that you've noticed a change.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:17 PM
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I was going to say 31. But if this is your first encounter with the crotch in question, there's just nothing you can say.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:20 PM
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25: apo is that rare, naturally-gifted smoker. It was a shame to lose him - in his prime, too.

28: I think the only thing you can do is say, "Oh, hey, I'm using some Vagisil over here. Want some?" I realize this may be awkward if you're a man, but much less so than telling her she has wicked crotch-rot.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:20 PM
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I almost felt bad posting this, because it felt cruel to taunt the ex-smokers. But I figured that quitting smoking is one of those things where everything reminds you of smoking, and so at least in this thread you're on topic when you have a craving.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:21 PM
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On a less snarky note, and in tune with the others, have you noticed any variation? If it's just once or twice, it may be environmental factors (I'm looking at you, pantyhose). If it's every time, and it's been awhile, well, good luck with that.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:22 PM
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BTW, I googled before I posted 33, to make sure that Vagisil is what I thought it was. That's conscientious commenting, folks.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:23 PM
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On the OP, I have to confess that, due to unfortunate behavior on my part, Kai's first words were, "Hooray, titties!"


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:28 PM
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Because then you could just say that you've noticed a change.

I can't envision how one could "just" say that. It seems certain to lead to follow-up questions. And I'm having trouble imagining how those questions don't lead to offense and hurt feelings.


Posted by: John F. Kennedy | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:29 PM
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34. Also, you are never an ex-smoker. You are always a smoker who doesn't spark up. Promise. It's been more than 30 years. I still do the gestures when I'm tense.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:30 PM
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offense and hurt feelings

Hmm. See, if it were me, I'd want to know. In fact, anybody who'd like to smell my crotch should email me.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:31 PM
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38: Depending on how long a relationship it's been, and what sort, I could see simply saying, "Hey, babe, I think you might have a yeast infection; you smell different."


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:32 PM
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38: If you've noticed a change, I don't think you should walk on eggshells and second-guess her response. Just speak up, and let her have whatever response she's going to have.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:33 PM
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27: My sense of smell got better, which is a mixed blessing.

IMX giving up smoking after fifty years of a one pack per day unfiltered Lucky Strike habit was considerably easier than giving up the lorazepam/Ativan after just a couple of months of that stuff.

My trick is to get into a situation where I simply could not smoke for a few days. After that I've had momentary and easily suppressed cravings, sometimes strong, sometimes not. Obviously mileages vary.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:34 PM
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I really expected at least one email by now. [pout]


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:35 PM
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1.) I've never smoked a cigarette, partly because I was a serious goody too shoes. If I'm drinking smoke doesn't bother me too much, but when I walk past smokers during the day time, I start to hack. I don't think that I would enjoy smoking.

2.) Re: 28-32. Is there a way to know if one's crotch smells without having someone say so. In the absence of an actual infection, what could cause that and what could one do to boost the chances of having a nice smelling crotch other than regular bathing. They always say that the balance of organisms and the Ph of teh vagina are very carefully regulated, and that it's supposed to be able to clean itself. (Obviously one washes the outer bits.)

Are there special foods to eat?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:37 PM
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38: Yeah, I hate to say it, but in a semi-established, healthy, adult relationship, this should be broachable.

Also, don't forget that most women are aware of this as at least a potential issue - not every woman gets yeast infections (often), but they all have friends who do.

Obviously, if it's not that kind of relationship, or she's uptight about her body, you're in trouble.

Maybe leave Our Bodies, Ourselves open to that page on the back of the toilet?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:38 PM
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Is there a way to know if one's crotch smells without having someone say so.

You have fingers and a nose, right?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:39 PM
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38, 42: Yeah, something couched along the lines of "You normally smell great, but there's something weird going on now, you should check it out" might provoke a touchy reaction, but it's better than the alternative, of being quietly grossed out. (This is only assuming that you're in a relationship where crotch-smelling is a regular part of what's going on, and you really have noticed a change.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:39 PM
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I really expected at least one email by now. [pout]

Will you mail us a little vial of crotch fumes?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:40 PM
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Also, don't forget that most women are aware of this as at least a potential issue - not every woman gets yeast infections (often), but they all have friends who do.

Yeast infections are surely not the only source of crotch smells. Indeed, yeasty smells are pretty mellow and benign as such things go. "You smell yeasty" is not the same thing as "you smell yucky."


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:40 PM
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47: Well yeah, but some things smell fine to me, but they seem to be unpleasant. I don't know if my nose is different.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:40 PM
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Scratch and sniff cards.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:41 PM
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Also, don't forget that most women are aware of this as at least a potential issue - not every woman gets yeast infections (often), but they all have friends who do.

Right. And not all yeast infections make themselves known to the woman. Some women get itchy, so it's pretty clear, but some don't, so they don't necessarily realize.

Mentioning a possible yeast infection (if the relationship is the sort that permits that) at least puts the crotch! cleanly crotch! issue on the radar.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:42 PM
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And I'm having trouble imagining how those questions don't lead to offense and hurt feelings.

Mr President, only you know the answer to this, because only you know the third party. Some people will fall into a downward spiral of undermined self esteem if you offer them a hairbrush when they come in out of a storm. Some people would be all "Oh, shit. Why didn't you say something sooner."

I'm guessing from the fact that you asked the question at all that the third party here is closer to A than B. In which case, it's a bugger, because there's really nothing you can do that doesn't take you both through the pain barrier. Apo's 28 is probably the best of a lousy job.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:43 PM
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Recent, on topic conversation between my friend and her two year old:

2 yr old: Mommy, smell my finger!
Friend: not engaging in finger-smelling, What does your finger smell like?
2 yr old: Poop! It smells like poop!
Friend: Why does your finger smell like poop?
2 yr old: Because I put it in my butt!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:43 PM
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Did you notice getting your sense of smell/taste back? Everyone I know who's quit has commented on that one.

Is there a polite/inoffensive way to tell someone that his or her (her) crotch smells terrible

Maybe you should just take up smoking.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:44 PM
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Scratch and sniff cards.

So far I've got "Chicken By Apo" and "Trout By Apo", but I'm trying to collect the whole set!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:45 PM
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Next meet-up, we could evaluate one another, BG. Purely in the interest of science, of course. More seriously, if somebody's coming face-to-face with your hoohah on a regular basis and hasn't said anything, you almost certainly smell fine.

Unless you're banging JFK.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:45 PM
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I've never been a smoker, but when my mom was alive she and my two sisters would smoke up a storm at times, and I'd have a few cigarettes out of family solidarity.

I was relieved when Oregon's bar smoking ban came out, though I probably wouldn't have voted for it. It used to be that after a night out I could smell where my clothes were in the dark


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:45 PM
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||

Nice sciencey piece about high fructose corn syrup, via Ezra. Clarifies that there are legit concerns about the effects of fructose on the human body, but HFCS isn't that high in fructose (55/42/3 with glucose and ??? in soda), and so it's probably guilty as a cheap source of empty calories more so than as a distinctly unhealthy kind of sweetener. Which was kind of my impression, but now I have a better sense of how to balance the blame (I'm going to go with 15% inherently bad, 85% too cheap).

|>


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:47 PM
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The day will come when smell-digitizers and digitized-smell-actualizers will be standard equipment. Remember when e-mail was simply text? Huh? Huh?

What I want to know is; what will be the Dancing Hamsters equivalent on iSmell?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:48 PM
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anybody who'd like to smell my crotch should email me.

Or get the smell-o-blog add-on for Firefox.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:49 PM
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I was relieved when Oregon's bar smoking ban came out, though I probably wouldn't have voted for it. It used to be that after a night out I could smell where my clothes were in the dark

I'd have thought that would be a good thing for you -- easier to make a quick getaway before a relationship might form.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:50 PM
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Okay, I was trying to keep the details stripped, but: it's a new crotch, and the main concern is that, with natural variances being what they are, the suggestion of a yeast infection might turn out to be wrong. Which could offend, I would think.


Posted by: John F. Kennedy | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:50 PM
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50: Fair 'nuf. I was just saying that a grown woman should be aware that her crotch is susceptible to hygiene issues that go beyond a swipe with a washcloth. JFK seems to be (partly) concerned that Ms. Crotch will be shocked to learn that her ladyparts aren't smelling as much like perfume as usual. It should be a possibility she's considered before.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:51 PM
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58: Who isn't?


Posted by: micah | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:51 PM
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It's bacterial vaginosis time! Bacterial vaginosis time!
Bacterial vaginosis with a baseball bat!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:51 PM
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67 to 61.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:52 PM
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64: Oh, if it's a new crotch, you've got to keep quiet for awhile. Sorry about that.

How's your dexterity?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:55 PM
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58: I think I smell fine, but my taste varies too much. Sometimes perfume varies too much. Anyway, I'm not getting quite enough attention down there, and before I start delving into psychological explanations, I want to make sure that I'm doing everything to make it pleasant.

Too much information, I know, but I'd suck at going presidential. It would be totally obvious who I was.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:56 PM
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JRoth's 69 is right (oh so right) (sorry)--new crotch, nothing you can say.


Posted by: Osgood Yousbad | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:57 PM
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55: See what you have to look forward to?

64
it's a new crotch

Well then, is it under warranty?


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:57 PM
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64: Huh. If it's never smelled any better than that to you, I'd keep your mouth shut. This is purely anecdotal, having no experience with female genitalia other than my own, but I'm told that natural healthy odor is wildly variable, and not everyone likes the way everyone smells. (If you're seeing visual evidence that something's not right, that moves it back into an area where you can say something tactful without hurt feelings. But if everything looks fine but just smells funky, I wouldn't say anything.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 1:58 PM
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I'm not getting quite enough attention down there

Best to just start that conversation directly, then, rather than trying to guess somebody else's motivations. Some people are just kinda weird about oral sex, even if you smell like lavender.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:01 PM
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I'd keep your mouth shut.

LB, not tactfully put.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:01 PM
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73: I'd keep your mouth shut

What, and keep breathing through his nose? Not helpful.


Posted by: Osgood Yousbad | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:02 PM
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75: I meant "I wouldn't say anything". Am I missing a joke, or did that sound rude to JFK? I didn't mean it that way.

And BG? I don't have the impression there's much you can sensibly do to affect your normal odor, unless you have some sort of infection going on, in which case medical treatment. I've always understood that any sort of douche/FDS/whatever product is only going to screw things up, and I've never heard of useful dietary effects. I think this is an issue that has to be dealt with interpersonally if at all.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:07 PM
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77: I think it was an oral sex joke.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:09 PM
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Presumably BG would go Presidential as Abigail Adams or Jackie O.

Have you gotten adequate attention in the past? If so, I wouldn't assume that you've changed (although it's certainly possible). How would he react if you polled his past GFs to find out his proclivities?

Seriously, it's hard to guess. Speaking for myself, I like oral a fair amount, but a combination of taste and desire can temper that quite a bit. IOW, there's a lot of variables. IIRC, you'd need at least a sixsome* to really test things out.

* I suppose a pair of bi women would cover things, but that seems a bit unlikely.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:09 PM
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IOW, there's a lot of variables. IIRC, you'd need at least a sixsome* to really test things out.

* I suppose a pair of bi women would cover things, but that seems a bit unlikely.

What? I didn't follow that at all.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:11 PM
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Actually, to 77.last, IME cleaning, cotton panties, and/or arousal make a big difference. In particular, once the juices are flowing, a lot of the funk is washed away (or diluted or overwhelmed; I don't know the mechanism, I just know it';s true).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:12 PM
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What? I didn't follow that at all.

Here you go, Brock.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:13 PM
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82 should have linked to this.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:13 PM
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80: I'm saying (with great trepidation, since the Math Teacher is reading) that there's 3 variables, so you need 3 equations to solve for them. So 3 couples, or 1 couple + 2 bi women who can be on either side of the equation sign, if you take my drift.

Good Lord, I can't believe I'm doing this instead of working.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:14 PM
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What are the three variables? I'm not seeing them in 79.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:16 PM
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I've tried to take up smoking, but it just didn't take. I keep forgetting to smoke more.

I guess I should work on picking up breastfeeding or crotch-sniffing or Vagisil.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:27 PM
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What are the three variables?

His general proclivity, his level of desire, and her crotch.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:31 PM
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Switching from a high meat diet to a vegetarian one can cause a noticeable change in vaginal odor, with vegetarians being much less pungent.

If Ms. Crotch has recently been eating a lot of meat that might explain things. Perhaps she's just an outlier on the crotch whiff spectrum.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:35 PM
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I've heard the contention in 88 before, but I don't buy it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:39 PM
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Sifu gets it for free.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:40 PM
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88: Any change in diet can change your body's chemical balance/smells. I don't think (based on personal experience) that you can point to any particular change as having a typical, much less universal, effect.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:40 PM
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88 gets it right. Clearly JFK must a) suggest the vegetarian course at dinner; b) suggest a shower before sex next time; c) suggest a fun pubic hair trimming session; d) get her really really hot before clothing removal ensues.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:43 PM
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So, the consensus recommendation is to say nothing, even if one is strongly suspicious of infection?


Posted by: John F. Kennedy | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:43 PM
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94

This has been much less of an issue in sexual situations than at other times.


Posted by: John F. Kennedy | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:46 PM
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93: If your suspicions are strong enough, then go for it; just know that it's going to be a tricky conversation (because you have neither the handy, "something's different" line nor the established relationship framework).

"Your crotch stinks, honey. I'm only telling you because I'm a feminist."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:47 PM
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94: What? Do you mean that she has noticeable crotch whiff while just going about her day?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:47 PM
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Well, a new sexual partner is one of the leading causes of BV. So it's probably your fault anyhow.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:48 PM
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This has been much less of an issue in sexual situations than at other times.

Wait, what!?

You mean, sitting around, eating dinner, when, suddenly, a stink cloud drifts across the table?

Whoa.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:48 PM
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93: Only because, not knowing you, I don't trust your judgment. You haven't mentioned any symptoms other than offensive odor, and you haven't (not that I'm asking you to, really) been detailed about what makes you think that it's an infection rather than a normal odor you find distasteful.

If you're really confident she's got a health problem (like, you haven't mentioned that you're an OB/GYN and you're pretty sure what it is she's got), I suppose you could tell her. Short of that, the possibility of error leading to legitimately hurt feelings seems pretty big.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:49 PM
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97: Talk about blaming the victim.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:49 PM
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Oh, there you all are. Still can't get here via laptop, but handheld works (ATM).


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:49 PM
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96, 98: I join in the "What?" If it's bad enough that you're smelling her from across the room, um, geez. That's rough.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:50 PM
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103

100 wins.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:50 PM
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What about having more sex in the shower, JFK?

Of course, if she smells funky all the time, then I can't help wondering whether you already kind of like it; you're going out with this chick, after all.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:52 PM
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101: how's the old server holding up?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:52 PM
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105: It's kinda smelly, but nobody wants to say anything.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:54 PM
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Assuming we're understanding 94 correctly, I can't imagine how to raise the issue. The only thing remotely like it that I've encountered is a friend who knows he has occasional halitosis (it's pretty bad), and has said I should mention it if I notice it; so from time to time I'll say, "You have any mouthwash on you, by the way?"

Heh. Lay in some crotch-wipes and casually mention that you're going to go use one, and would she like one?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:55 PM
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The key is to play it cool; next you're over at her place, say "Holy crap, something stinks in here! Did a skunk die?"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:58 PM
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Seriously, maybe mentioning after sex that perhaps she has a yeast infection would be enough to direct her attention to the area in question, which is a start.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 2:59 PM
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Or you could just loudly exclaim "Man, I feel like baking bread all of a sudden. Do you feel like baking bread? Or making beer, one or the other."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:01 PM
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105, 106: I can't even smell it from here.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:03 PM
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A strong, unpleasant odor is more likely to indicate BV or trichomoniasis than a yeast infection, isn't it?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:05 PM
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112: I think that's right. But saying "Boy, I'd like to make or consume a food product that is made with the product of an infected bladder!" is bad on a number of levels.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:08 PM
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I love what the active threads say about the interests of the Unfoggetariat.

Welcome to Unfogged! Economics, or crotch rot?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:08 PM
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114: what's the difference, really.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:10 PM
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115: Emerson isn't on a jihad against crotch rot?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:12 PM
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Economics, or crotch rot?

Which is a greater cause for concern?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:12 PM
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Oh, semi-pwned.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:12 PM
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116: Given that it discourages relationships, he's probably pro.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:12 PM
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Which is more authentic?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:13 PM
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Something something vagina tranches something.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:14 PM
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Artisinal Vaginal odor, the newest Williamsburg craze coming to a NY Times Style section near you.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:14 PM
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Some ideas for ways to bring this up gently:

[a woman is worried about the smell of her [crotch] as guests arrive]
1st guest: Fish for dinner last night?
2nd guest: Phewww... [your crotch] still smoking those cigars?
3rd guest: CHRIST! Did a cow shit in [your crotch]?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:15 PM
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Artisinal Vaginal odor

Been done.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:17 PM
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112: Yeah, maybe. But in terms of JFK's mention of the issue, I don't think accuracy is the point. "Honey, I think you may have bacterial vaginosis or trichomoniasis" might not go over as well as "Hon, yeast infection?" would.

He could always casually ask her when her next pap smear is scheduled.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:20 PM
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"Hey, have you taken that in to the shop lately? It's overdue to be serviced."


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:25 PM
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124: I am duly humbled by the biscuit of reality and apo's grasp of its crux.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:30 PM
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Just vomit while going down on her. You won't have to say a thing.

(Damn, Sifu, feel like being disgusting, do we?)


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:34 PM
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Or take a moment to put on one of those creepy WWII era gas masks. "Hang on, honey, let me set the mood."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:36 PM
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Go down, go down, cry, go down.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:36 PM
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re: 25

Honestly, I was the same. I didn't really have any smoking related symptoms and had smoked for about 20 years.* However, I wasn't a heavy smoker. I rarely smoked at work, just in the evening. Maybe 2 packs a week. More if I was in the pub regularly, I suppose.

* I stopped because it's not a good idea to have throat surgery and smoke at the same time ...


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:37 PM
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Comments from 114 on have me in tears. Comments upthread deserve some credit too, but 114-119, man oh man.

Also, I agree with 96, 98 and 102. If you're getting close enough to her crotch in non-sexual situations to smell it, then it's an intimate enough relationship that you can probably just speak up and have nothing to worry about. If you're smelling it across the room, we've gone beyond common diseases and normal woman-to-woman variation.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:44 PM
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Wow, this thread is awesome.

Smoking: I am surprised to say that I quit smoking again this year, and three months in... I don't really care. I don't know why it's different this time, it just is, and it's weird. I guess it's the comfort of knowing that if I really, really want one, I'll just let myself have one. And then I don't happen to want one.

JFK's crotch problem: All you non-talking-advising peeps are crazy. If I was fucking someone who thought I had a smelly crotch, I would want to know so I could a) go to the goddamn doctor or b) after discovering there was nothing wrong with my crotch, not date the person anymore. This sounds new-agey hippieish, but I happen to believe there's something to be said for liking the way your partner smells, in the crotch, when they're slightly b.o.-ish, etc. I really dont want to spend too much time in close proximity to someone whose natural smells gross me out. There's a wide variety out there, and I'd just as soon be with someone whose smells I liked.

So JFK, I would advise you to talk to her. Say "look, I really hope you don't get upset about this, but your vagina smells a little weird and I'm concerned you might have an infection or something. Is everything ok? I heard that sometimes when you start up with a new partner they can introduce new bacteria that can cause changes (you heard it from me!). " and etc. Apologize for bringing it up, say you think it's better to be honest, etc etc.

If the lady can't handle it, well, .. not really headed for partnerhood, my friend.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:47 PM
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134

123 wins. I love that movie.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:49 PM
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135

134: Kentucky Fried Airplane was a working title for their next movie.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 3:57 PM
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Man, now I'm sorting through the variety of bodily smell issues people can have. Stinky feet, whoa, please don't take off your shoes in the living room! Pits, the pits, good lord, keep your arms down! No farting in the public household space, I swear to god! Morning breath, eek, no kissing.

It's amazing we manage to navigate these things without everybody having a nervous breakdown, eh?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 4:00 PM
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133 is pretty good, except maybe for use of the word "weird."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 4:07 PM
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137: Yeah, "strong" might be better.

Look, there's no good way to say it!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 4:15 PM
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136: you're really just inviting a "well, then don't hang out with hippies" joke, parsley. One I will be good enough to forego.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 4:26 PM
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I'm big enough to not dwell on the fact that 139 is a somewhat nasty use of paralipsis.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 4:33 PM
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141

I'm going to be tasteful enough not to admit that I had never run across the term paralipsis (auto- or otherwise) before 140.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 4:47 PM
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Hey guys! Did you notice my totally awesome 137?

I believe this is known as toulipsis.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 4:58 PM
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141 is funny.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 5:03 PM
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Thing to do is use the screening kit so you can tell her specifically and with confidence:

http://www.vagisilkit.com/kit2/index.shtml


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 5:07 PM
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139: That was the point. Of the joke. Tweeters!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 6:30 PM
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I recently watched Kentucky Fried Movie with my mom. She said, "I can't believe I watched that with you when you were 12. I'm a horrible mother." I told her it was on cable so most of the horrible-mother bits were excised and that she remains awesome.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 6:40 PM
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146: so you didn't get to see the beauty of the sexual act crassly exploited as never before?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 6:42 PM
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Not until a couple months ago with my mom, no.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 6:44 PM
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148: HAWT! Wish I had me some of them poppers.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 6:47 PM
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I set you up so good, and this is the best you come up with? My talent as a straight man is wasted on you all.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 7:02 PM
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It goes without saying that I should not bother responding to anything in the last 10 or so comments, so I won't.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 7:10 PM
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This sounds new-agey hippieish, but I happen to believe there's something to be said for liking the way your partner smells

I've been led to understand that there is a saying in German, or at the very least in regional German, or at the very least amongst UNG's people: ich kann dich riechen, that is, I can [stand to] smell you. Though it always struck me as a rather odd expression of romantic affection, truly it is hard to imagine spending much of your lifetime with someone who's scent grosses you out.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 7:29 PM
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Bfing is awesome, but it's not about the 5 minute break. It's more like a crash course in zen: you WILL learn to live in the moment and stop worrying about what you "should" be doing with your time.

And you don't smell of sour milk. You smell like breasts, and so does the baby. It's pretty great, actually.


Posted by: Bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 8:34 PM
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Also while bfing I ate a pound of chocolate a day and shed weight like a cat in summer sheds fur. So awesome.

Re crotch odor, for gods sake say something. If it smells that bad she's probably noticed too, but a second opinion might be the needed prompt to get to the doc. Make it a question: "has your pussy changed smells lately that you've noticed? Bc I had a former bc who smelled a bit the way you do now and it turned out she had some kind of infection...."


Posted by: Bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 8:45 PM
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Because I had a former because?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 8:46 PM
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Amen to 133.3.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 8:47 PM
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B. is playing pretty fast and loose with the abbreviations.

"While bfing" reminds of nothing so much as barfing. Say.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 8:54 PM
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157: Yes, I read it the same way.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 8:56 PM
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"While bfing" reminds of nothing so much as barfing. Say.

I would go with "boffing" . The comments pretty much still work with that substitution as well.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 8:57 PM
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has your pussy changed smells

I like this phrasing, too. It's like switching dish detergents.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 8:58 PM
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"boyfriending" also works quite well in both 153 and 154.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 8:59 PM
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B. is brilliant, really. I recommend that JFK ask his gf about her pussy smell. It's better than "crotch," right?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 9:02 PM
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"boyfriending" "buttfucking" also works quite well in both 153 and 154.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 3-09 9:11 PM
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It would be incredibly shitty of JFK not to tell his partner.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 1:30 PM
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One of my classmates became pregnant in my last year of (the equivalent of) high school. In the late stages of pregnancy, right before she left she exuded an extremely strong dead fish type smell. It was headache inducing in a radius of several meters, and lingered for at least 30 minutes, more I think. The area around our lockers smelled like that throughout the day.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 1:30 PM
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166

Bfing is a standard abbreviation on mommy forums, people.


Posted by: Bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 2:54 PM
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165: She wasn't bothered by it, but as content and at ease as a person can be.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 3:06 PM
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ich kann dich riechen, that is, I can [stand to] smell you.

I love this - I think I'm largely attracted to people on scent alone. There are some people - an entire family that I babysat for when I was kid comes to mind - that smell distinctly bad to me and I couldn't imagine trying to have a relationship with such a person; whereas, all of the men I've been in relationships with smell utterly delectable to me, no matter how stinky or sweaty they think they are.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 3:37 PM
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169

166: And 163 probably works just as amusingly there, too.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 3:48 PM
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She wasn't bothered by it, but as content and at ease as a person can be.

Swedes. Liberation run amok.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 3:51 PM
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168: Good God, me too. On the list of things I desperately miss about dating boys, after sex and having someone to cook for, is neck-sniffing. I cannot imagine being able to have sex with someone whose body-smell I didn't love.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 3:54 PM
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B.O. seems to play a big role in the construction of class everywhere. This is different than the individual cases we've been talking about.

In some Buddhist writings, people with inherited bad karma are described as having been "fumigated" by bad smells. That's the English translation I saw; I think that something like "tainted" might have been better. But in any case, low-caste people are stinky.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 3:58 PM
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Is AWB a convert to the relationship-free life, or does she just not sniff girls' necks?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 4:07 PM
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It's different. I like girl-smell too, though.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 4:10 PM
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173: My reaction was, "what, you can't cook for a girl?" Sexist.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 4:35 PM
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174: Very true. My (female) friends all smell good to me too, but in a different sort of way.

And cooking for friends is very different than cooking for a partner, regardless of gender.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 4:40 PM
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And cooking for friends is very different than cooking for a partner, regardless of gender.

Generally, when cooking for friends as opposed to cooking partners, you should use less salt, more vinegar, more white meat, less red meat, and a lot of cilantro.

though WTF do I know.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 5:47 PM
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176.2 continues to puzzle me. But I'm just like that. I guess it alludes to the seduction (or post-seduction) meal?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 6:05 PM
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Of course it does. Don't you cook differently for people you're sleeping with? And not even [post]seduction, per se. I cook nothing so carefully as breakfast.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 6:08 PM
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180

Avoid abalone. Rule One.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 9:03 PM
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179: Don't you cook differently for people you're sleeping with? And not even [post]seduction, per se.

Certainly I'm much more attentive, if it's a new relationship. But I think the distinction winds up being between people who are newish friends/lovers/potential lovers, and those I've become comfortable with. I've made meals for a new (non-sexual) friend coming over that have been pretty careful. By the same token, once I'm quite easy with someone, lover or otherwise, I'm more likely to be throwing things together casually, preferably as a joint project.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 9:34 PM
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There's a couple of things that are different about cooking for a partner as opposed to friends. (I suggest that this is very idiosyncratic). There's a slightly higher desire to show off for a partner at first, but as things develop I begin to treat them like my guinea pig. For me it is a less stressful and a more nurturing style of cooking than happens for friends, where I tend to be feeding more people at once and feel pressure to get things "just so."


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 9:57 PM
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183

I think I've got it. Don't get involved with a cook, just befriend them. If you get involved, they'll feed you experiments, factory seconds, and leftovers.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 10:18 PM
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184

Or at least, figure out the tradeoff between good food and sexual favors.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 10:20 PM
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but as things develop I begin to treat them like my guinea pig

I hope the last step in the progression is not cooking and eating them.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 10:22 PM
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I hope the last step in the progression is not cooking and eating them.

Hah. No, no. Just meant that I'm less worried about what happens if I mess up, and more likely to try daring or complicated recipes/inventions without worrying about what happens if it doesn't turn out perfectly. Such a strategy produces tasty things more often than not.

Don't get involved with a cook, just befriend them.

Like I said, I suspect that this is a fairly idiosyncratic thing; I really do like cooking for other people because I associate it with caring for them and enjoy providing pleasure to people I like. (Plus, cooking for one can be delightful but I get tired of it). But when feeding groups larger than 2, I tend to worry a little too much about what happens if I mess up (which doesn't actually happen enough to justify my worries but I'm just a worry wart in general). After all, it's hard to feed scrambled eggs and toast to six; perfectly ok to do it to your partner.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 04- 4-09 10:36 PM
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its funny, i've always loved the ritual of smoking, tapping the new pack, the zippo, holding it, blowing the smoke. i never liked nicotine.

but, the last few years i've been using nicotine lozenzges instead of dexedrine to study.

so now maybe i have everything i need to be a smoker? i don't really do the social bumming anymore, because of that.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 3:55 AM
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183: Don't get involved with a cook, just befriend them. If you get involved, they'll feed you experiments, factory seconds, and leftovers.

This is pretty much correct. Sorry. The ideal is two cooks involved with one another. Then you have lovely cook-fest arguments, and everybody learns a new position!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 2:52 PM
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189

What if I like experiments, factory seconds, and leftovers, huh?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 5:54 PM
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190

I can't believe I missed this thread. Right on to 133.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 6:09 PM
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You're a happy, unconflicted lady who's safe dating cooks.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 6:17 PM
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yoyo!

I never smoked, but a few weeks ago a friend brought home a really good Cuban cigar and it was so delicious I sucked half the thing down. Then I got really sick from nicotine poisoning. Isn't that supposed to be the approved way of keeping teenagers from smoking?


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 6:19 PM
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My (female) friends all smell good to me too, but in a different sort of way.

Women smell like soaps and lotions. It's nice.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 7:03 PM
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194

You know what people smell good? Babies. Babies smell delightful.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 8:29 PM
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195

Except when they smell like reprocessed milk.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 8:42 PM
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Then I got really sick from nicotine poisoning. Isn't that supposed to be the approved way of keeping teenagers from smoking?

Interestingly, I seem to be developing an allergy to smoking. Last week I broke out in hives after a cigarette, and on Friday my lip swelled up and my hands got all red and itchy after a smoke. And yeah, I'm finding it a fairly helpful deterrent.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 9:55 PM
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195: Think of it as tasty, odoriferous artisanal cheese.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 10:18 PM
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Babies are the corpse of milk.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04- 5-09 10:20 PM
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