Re: Were I a tool, I would be a vise.

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I also admit to spending far too many seconds figuring out whether to use "vise" or "vice" and opted for pissing off the Brits and losing the pun. SO THERE!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 04-22-09 11:44 PM
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You know, you could have watched Prototype This, where I know for a fact that 3 out of the 4 co-hosts at least are awesome non-douchebags, but you (and by "you" I mean "everybody") didn't, so you're stuck with the Mythbusters tools.

I mean, I love the show. But of course they're irritating!

Hey if you watch Weaponizers when it's on in a couple weeks you can see yet another of my friends on the Discovery channel! He is kind of a dick, actually, but still. Watch it!

Why do I know so many people who've been on the Discovery channel? And when do I get on there? C'mon, TV. Love me.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-22-09 11:51 PM
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Also, of course he's a douche. Have you ever heard him go on about his pressed white button down shirt? Have you noticed the freakin' beret?

One of my favorite things about the show is how much barely concealed rage there is between Adam and Jamie.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-22-09 11:55 PM
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Just because I seem to love this thread...
people making left hand turns at green lights requiring that the left turner yield ("Of COURSE you should be out in the intersection; are you nuts?!")
You'll be glad to know that I failed my driving test the first time I took it for not following your advice.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-22-09 11:58 PM
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4: Well, good. But I'm trying not to care too much about it.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:00 AM
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Also this:
and the superiority of keyboard commands over the use of the mouse ("Of COURSE you're an idiot; are you an idiot?!")
Tends to fall apart in e.g. graphics software.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:02 AM
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6: See, I totally agree. This is possibly the most agreeable blog post ever on the whole internet.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:07 AM
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That cameraman cannot be getting paid enough.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:07 AM
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This is possibly the most agreeable blog post ever on the whole internet.

'Cause you can get banned for being uncongenial.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:08 AM
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I should note that nosflow raises a good point with which I agree.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:09 AM
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Oh yeah, I have loads of those things, and I do now realise that most of them are purely my process (as a friend of mine puts it). Some of course are THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE SO WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT, ARE YOU JUST *TRYING* TO PISS ME OFF? I think I only truly realised this about 3 years into my marriage, when I bought some sort of cutlery drainer tub doodah and was mentally planning what sort of cutlery or utensils would go in each bit. And then remembered that I never do the washing up, so I would probably just have to let C come up with his own method. (Which of course he didn't, he just put stuff in it randomly *gasp*.)


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:05 AM
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11 reminds me that the last time Sifu was at my apartment, he was putting utensils in the dishwasher and NOT DOING IT THE WAY I DO. I almost said something, but realized just in the nick of time that neither way has any practical advantage.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:10 AM
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I often rearrange the dishwasher when no one's looking. The children always put their stuff in it after use, and I'm not going to tell them they're wrong and turn the whole thing into an issue, but *sigh* they really don't think about what they're doing. A friend and I told another friend that she'd put something in the dishwasher wrong. Which wouldn't have been so bad if we hadn't been in her kitchen at the time.

I could attempt to justify my idiocy further, but I won't.

This post is a very timely one for Heebie, as Jammies is going to get loads of things wrong with HP, and the earlier one learns to hold one's tongue, the better.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:34 AM
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I just thought they'd stay in there better if I glued them to the heating element.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:38 AM
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but realized just in the nick of time that neither way has any practical advantage.

These are the great liberating experiences in life, like realising that you're not going to be rich and famous, or marry a movie star. It took me a life threatening experience to understand this.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:01 AM
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utensils in the dishwasher and NOT DOING IT THE WAY I DO

Oh God, I know. Also people fold sheets and towels incorrectly and they don't even seem to care.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:25 AM
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Oh fuck off apo! I bet you have your foibles (unless that honestly is one) - what about people who can't roll a joint properly? Morons.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:49 AM
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I hope my comments are coming across with the required amount of self-awareness. I am happily categorising and sub-categorising my books at the moment (instead of making phone calls about car insurance), so my anally-retentive persona is fully to the fore.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:51 AM
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Nobody can live up to apo's sheet folding standards, asilon. No sense even trying.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:52 AM
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17. Don't get into this with Americans - they don't think anybody this side can do it.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:52 AM
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I think in any long-term relationship you hit those 'but my way is the right way' impasses. I'm actually pretty mellow about other people doing things 'wrongly' -- being a lazy, procrastinating, non-anal/OCD type helps here. But I can get quite irrationally/unreasonably angry when someone else tells me I'm doing something wrong, particular when it comes to cleaning/housework.

I worked as a cleaner for 3 years, and have probably* done more hardcore cleaning work than any partner I've ever had. I used to clean in, among other places, a hospital, where I was regularly inspected by pedants, so if they tell me how to do things, I'm inclined to get irritated. Especially, of course, when their method is stupid and wrong.

re: 20

Someone I know (cough) went to Amsterdam as a teenager and was shocked and stunned by the inadequacies of the visiting 'mericans.

* by which I mean, fucking certainly ...


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 4:10 AM
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haha i have a big meeting tomorrow with the web dept of my org, about editing protocols

1: i want to do mark-up for correction on paper bcz (a) i am awesome at it that way (b) it is better more elegant economic and precise (c) IT IS THE RIGHT WAY! ALL YOU KIDS OFF MY LAWN NOW! (d) there seem to be no adequate protocols or applications for electronic mark-up

(i am currently required to: take screenshots of the website: decant screenshots into powerpoint: do the corrections in word with tracking on: resave with tracking turned off: and organise the changes into text boxes with little arrows plastered on top of the screenshots)

(what i want to do but won't be allowed: mark up on paper; get the paper changes approved; input these changes quickly and accurately myself to the HTML or whatever; get the screen changes checked and approved; BINGO -- a tenth the time and fuss)

2: they want to do mark-up electronically bcz (a) they don't know the printers' marks (b) it is the FUTURE hence must be better (c) the web designers input the corrections anyway and "we" signed a stupid contract with them which gives them unaccountable input-control which we should have (d) EVERYONE EXCEPT ME IS AN IDIOT BAH

ps is it true that there isn't a good* electronic mark-up application? must work on PCs and macs...
*good here means better than fkn powerpoint


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 4:39 AM
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My old boss at WF was like Jamie Heinemann. She finally found an assistant leader who was even more organized that she was which probably made her happy. S. wasn't quite as organized herself as she expected us to be. God, that was hell.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 4:54 AM
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asilon, I believe that apo does all of his own laundry, because nobody else does it up to his standards.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 4:55 AM
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Jeez, some people are just so OCD.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 5:03 AM
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No, I was completely serious about the towels and sheets. So you try to do someone a favor and explain to them the proper method and they look at you like you're crazy.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 5:26 AM
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Someone I know (cough) went to Amsterdam as a teenager and was shocked and stunned by the inadequacies of the visiting 'mericans.

We do things differently over here.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 5:43 AM
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Dishwashers seem to be an important locus of marital discord. Once at a party I witnessed the host couple bickering about pots in the dishwasher, and the next thing you know--divorced!


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 5:45 AM
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Hospital cleaning practices are pedantic and it must be terribly annoying to be trained, but they're designed to keep you from absentmindedly reinfecting the area you just cleaned. A friend of mine grumbled when his nurse's training told him the right way to fold a washrag, but there were reasons for that too.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 5:50 AM
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oh what a tangled web we spin, when first we practice strict hygiene

dirt, like truth, affirms itself without need of tactics or memory


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 5:53 AM
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It took me a life threatening experience to understand this.

Spill.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 5:55 AM
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Nothing to spill. I had surgery where I was given a measurable chance of not surviving, so I had to do all the "putting your affairs in order" stuff. I did survive, but my attitude to most of the small decisions in life went sharply from actually giving a damn to "why the fuck do you even care? Toss a penny or something."

OTOH about the same time I worked with a guy who shared a house with his brother. My colleague was deeply committed to the proposition that toilet roll should be hung with the drop outwards, while his brother believe the opposite. Occasionally they had rows about this which ended with them not speaking for a while. Eventually, some days after such a dispute, my colleague had a heart attack and died on the spot. He had not reconciled with his brother at the time. I think that (true story) is incredibly sad.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 6:09 AM
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Obviously, the rows weren't really about the toilet paper, but, whatever the reason, it's very sad that they weren't reconciled.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 6:27 AM
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22: tierce, you have my deepest sympathies.

The great advantage of working for certain small companies is that it can be possible to glare at people, say something permemptory about the screen flicker, and then magnanimously indicate one's willingness to input one's hardcopy edits one's self. Triumph. Bliss!


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 6:27 AM
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to be fair to my colleagues, the ppl who signed the stupid contract all left long ago and we are stuck improvising more or less ghastly workarounds until contract renewal (which is i believe later this year)


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 6:30 AM
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For two years, my boss complained about our office's diner-style while coffee mugs (which we'd had for years and years, apparently) and hounded the receptionist to find black ones. She finally found the exact style of black mug he wanted, ordered one, got him to approve it, and ordered another dozen or so.

Two days ago he picked up his coffee and some sloshed out, I guess because he didn't see the black coffee against the black ceramic. Our receptionist made a comment about how she had thought there might be a problem with seeing black coffee in a black mug. "WELL I GUESS YOU DIDN'T THINK OF THAT SOON ENOUGH!" said the boss.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 6:39 AM
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re: 29

Yeah, although I didn't clean clinically significant areas. I worked in a mental hospital. However, I did still get trained properly and regularly inspected. Which is why I get annoyed when someone tells me I'm 'doing it wrong'.

When I was in hospital last year there was a big outbreak of some iatrogenic disease or other and the cleaning staff were doing a 'terminal clean' on the rooms twice a day. it was impressive to watch them work. The thoroughness and care was impressive, especially given that they are low-paid workers and the UK tabloid press is always running scare stories about hospital cleanliness.

re: 36

I hope she unleashed the skull-fracture pwn with one of the afore-mentioned mugs?


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 6:44 AM
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I have loads of those things, and I do now realise that most of them are purely my process (as a friend of mine puts it). Some of course are THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE SO WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT, ARE YOU JUST *TRYING* TO PISS ME OFF?

A couple's ability to navigate this issue can be really important. BR is a compulsive cleaner and organizer. My crew is more like a pack of wild dogs. We have had to meet in the middle. She has helped us be more organized.

She has realized that we do not have the same compulsions that she has. However, she has been not so secretly training my daughter in her ways. She recognized that my daughter's ocd could be used for good purposes. Now, my daughter feels the strong urge to "Put it away!!! Put it away!!!"


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 6:47 AM
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defence: m'lud he was a d!ck as i shall show
jury: not guilty by reason of his bein a d!ck

shearer: i think you will find...


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 6:50 AM
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17 sucks. Asilon can't even curse properly. It's "Back off, motherfucker."

My wife and I have argued over how to put dishes in the dishwasher. It's such a stupid thing to argue over that I'm amazed it's a widespread experience.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 6:57 AM
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I hope she unleashed the skull-fracture pwn with one of the afore-mentioned mugs?

...or slipped 5X the therapeutic dose of bisacodyl into said coffee.


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 7:01 AM
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what is the panel's view on cap-Ts for middle-of-sentence thes?

my line:
"We financed our bid from the Pillage Fund." -- fine
"We financed our bid from The Pillage Fund." -- RONG
"We named our album The Pillage Fund." -- fine

i am driven mental by creeping capitalisation: THIS IS NOT THE 18TH-CENTURY NOR ARE WE GERMANS!



Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 7:11 AM
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people making left hand turns at green lights requiring that the left turner yield ("Of COURSE you should be out in the intersection; are you nuts?!")

Molly and I argue about this one all the time. I enter the intersection; she feels this is pushy and rude.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 7:37 AM
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I don't think it was that bad.

It's my impression from the clip that they guy holding the camera is an employee whose job it is to do low-level shit (hold the camera, get the coffee, organize the work stations). While the requests were odd (ocd?), they were simple. Why didn't the guy holding that camera follow the instructions? It's weird to insist on 1 pad of paper, but that's what he wants.

Why pay someone to do a job if that person is going to decide for himself which parts of the job are worth doing?


Posted by: notjamie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 7:38 AM
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I hope she unleashed the skull-fracture pwn with one of the afore-mentioned mugs?

She was holding a chef's knife during the conversation, actually, but did not unleash the deep-puncture pwn.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 7:41 AM
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44: I fear that if I side with you and insist of course you should enter the damn intersection this will just confirm to Molly that it is pushy and rude.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 7:44 AM
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36
Two days ago

So, the day before Secretary's Day? Classy guy.

OT: On TV last night, some commentator in one of those screen-within-a-screens on some sports show had a blackboard behind him with messages on it that changed during commercial breaks. The one that caught my eye read "Cubicles are padded cells without doors."


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 7:53 AM
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22: Acrobat (the full version). You can assign it to pull down a whole website or portions thereof, PDF it, and then mark your corrections. Then you use the internal digital signature technology to get everyone to sign off on the new changes. Does not work if you have Flash animations, but otherwise serviceable.

Also, paper markup is for suckers unless you're in a production environment (changes between proofer and layout) and can walk them over to the layout person or coordinator in charge of the job. If you're in review stage between design/layout and internal client, ALWAYS go electronic.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 7:59 AM
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Arguming about stupid stuff is stupid, yeah, but some people really do things objectively incorrectly. Cleaning practices that *do* accidently reinfect the area you just cleaned, loading the dishwasher in a way that's very likely to prevent them all from getting clean, etc. The towel folding is a borderline case--I'm sympathetic to those who believe they ought to be folded correctly, but any folding at all is manifestly preferable to just stuffing a giant tangled ball of towels in the closet.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:04 AM
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True. I'm generally pretty slack about household tasks myself, and pretty indifferent about how other people do them. But my partner will tidy up by putting unwashed pots and pans away in cupboards, which is objectively insane -- taking a frying pan out and finding it's covered in rancid bacon grease is very wrong. We don't actually fight about this, I just wash things when I find them and brood to myself about how wrong it all is.


Posted by: James Polk | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:10 AM
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Look, do you want to enter the damn intersection or do you want to die of starvation while you wait, which will hold up the traffic behind you, which is even ruder.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:10 AM
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Obviously, the rows weren't really about the toilet paper

Obviously your priorities are skewed, Kraab. Some of us do care about proper personal hygiene.

My sister saves gum in odd places if she isn't quite through with it, always sorts the trash/recycling wrong, uses cleaning products which are too heavily scented, and never drains the sink after washing dishes (in case another dish shows up, I guess.) But I never get mad at her when she's around.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:13 AM
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OK, I've got something we can all* agree on: a rational and humane immigration enforcement policy would not strip parents of their children for trifling offenses.

*Shearer possibly excepted.


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:17 AM
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48: oo that sounds worth checkin chopper -- i think i can swing a full version of acrobat

"walk them over" is an impossible dream currently -- basically i want the walking over to be between me and me, with the (so-called) deciders at full arm's length (idiots) and a trusted (also: cute) assistant-eye to clear up after me for when i'm surfing unf'ed instead of concentratin... IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK EH


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:22 AM
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I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea that there's only one correct way to fold towels. There might be a habitual way to fold them, and there might be a way that optimally uses the cabinet space available for them, but I can think of too many exceptions for any One True Way to be truly correct in all circumstances.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:22 AM
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My mother really admired my sister's towel-folding. My sister was pleased, but I think that she had secretly hoped to be recognized for something other than that.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:25 AM
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50 is indeed describing an objectively insane situation.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:26 AM
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yeah, sarsly polk, that is worth getting into a fight over. I would freak out if I took a pan out of the cabinet and it were full of rancid bacon grease.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:37 AM
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The towel folding is a borderline case

No, that's really 100% my neurosis, and why I fold all the laundry in our house without complaint. I don't have a whole lot of non-document-related OCD, but it certainly pops through there.

The dishwasher thing, though? Water has to be able to hit the surfaces you want cleaned, so items should be arranged with that in mind. Not crazy, people.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:45 AM
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50/57/58: The person I know who did this was suffering from very serious depression. Better now!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:47 AM
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Perhaps that was an act of ultra-passive-aggressiveness. "If James K. Polk isn't going to do his duty and wash these pans, I'll teach him what the consequences are."


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:48 AM
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My wife does something similar, though definitely not as bad--she wouldn't put away anything that was unwashed, but she'll put away anything that comes out of the dishwasher, even if it's clearly objectively very unclean (NB: because she didn't rinse the dishes and then overloaded the dishwasher, natch). That bothers me enough. Routinely putting away dishes that are unwashed borders on mental illness. Just out of curiousity, how does she view her habit: when she pulls a dirty pan out of the cabinet, does she just reuse it, or does she just wash it first? If the latter, maybe she just thinks washing before use instead of after is, for some reason, an easier arrangement to deal with? I've lived in houses with roomates who didn't wash anything well, and eventually I just resigned myself to washing everything before using it anyway, and that admittedly led me to significantly lessen the care I took to wash them carefully after I used them. Maybe she's learned similar habits? (Although I don't think I'd have ever just put away an unwashed bacon pan. Doesn't that attract bugs?)


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:49 AM
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she didn't rinse the dishes and then overloaded the dishwasher

You're making me hyperventilate, Brock.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:52 AM
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Oh Walt? Up yours, fuckface.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:55 AM
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Asilon is feisty today.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:57 AM
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I enter the intersection; she feels this is pushy and rude.

One of the awesome things about driving a cop car is that it has an air horn and a PA system which can be used to "encourage" people to quit screwing around and drive properly.


Posted by: Teddy Roosevelt | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 8:59 AM
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Man, this thread is making me feel relieved about my anal-retentive housekeeping habits (which have only gotten more so to balance my wife's, um, rather different approach). I'm not so all alone!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:00 AM
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what is the opposite of anal?


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:02 AM
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Someone I know (cough) went to Amsterdam as a teenager and was shocked and stunned by the inadequacies of the visiting 'mericans.

I find this to be the case. Americans are way more likely to smoke exclusively from pipes and/or bongs.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:06 AM
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The person I know who did this was suffering from very serious depression. Better now!

Mrs. Polk claims that I have become much less obsessive about such things as keeping the kitchen counter clear of clutter since I started taking antidepressants.

We have an unfortunate collision of OCD symptoms: I can't stand to have clutter lying around, but I can tolerate an unswept floor or an unwiped sink, whereas she leaves shit strewn all over the White House, but obsessively cleans and decontaminates surfaces.


Posted by: James K. Polk | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:08 AM
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68: I guess the opposite of anal-retentive would be anal-expulsive.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:09 AM
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70: sounds perfect--your home must be pristine.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:09 AM
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"Of COURSE you should be out in the intersection; are you nuts?!"

I was taught (and believe) that this is wrong. The most likely situation for a car to stall is when you go from idle to accelerating. When you make a turn across traffic the correct approach is to point the car straight ahead, begin acceleration, then turn. This requires that you wait to make your turn well back from the intersection proper, maybe two or three car lengths. That way, if you stall you coast forward slightly, with plenty of time to hit the brakes. If you are out in the intersection a stall either leaves you in the intersection or, in the worst case, where you have turned the wheels before hitting the gas, leaves you partially in the path of oncoming traffic. Turning the wheels before you are moving also means that getting rear ended will drive you into the path of oncoming traffic.

And my number one driving pet peeve - turn signals. All turns and all lane changes should be signaled well in advance. For some reason in NoVa the standard use of turn signals is as a way to taunt the person you just cut off. From time to time I encounter discussions of whether or not turn signals should be used in turn only lanes. This makes me want to smack people. You use turn signals to signal your intentions to other drivers so that they can adjust accordingly. There is no reason to assume that everyone who might interact with you can see the signs indicating you are in a turn only lane. And for fuck's sake, is it really so hard to move your little finger through a whole inch or so to turn on the signals? Is there any situation short of hot pursuit by idiots where accurately signaling turns and lane changes increases danger to yourself or others?


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:11 AM
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But my partner will tidy up by putting unwashed pots and pans away in cupboards, which is objectively insane -- taking a frying pan out and finding it's covered in rancid bacon grease is very wrong. We don't actually fight about this, I just wash things when I find them and brood to myself about how wrong it all is.

AAAAH! My god.

I could do with someone with more vigorous methods and standards to drag me up to his level, but Snark and I just muddle around middlingly, instead. No greasy pans in the cupboard, though. Egad.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:12 AM
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your home must be pristine

For the 45 minutes or so following the departure of the cleaning people, yes.


Posted by: James K. Polk | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:13 AM
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haha i am anal-expulsive... laydeez


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:15 AM
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How often do modern cars in good repair stall? There is stalling because you didn't have the clutch in, of course, which is easily recoverable-from, but stalling out for real is not something that has ever happened to me in a car that I didn't already know was prone to problems.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:16 AM
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I take this thread as evidence that Stanley is the new ogged.


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:18 AM
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77 - Being careful about the possibility of a stall doesn't impose any burden, so why not do it? Also, "modern cars in good repair" is not an accurate description of the vehicles on the road where I learned to drive :-)


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:26 AM
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I've heard "anal expressive". A friend of mine was thus diagnosed because as an infant he painted the walls with his feces. Not exactly a difficult diagnosis.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:28 AM
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I agree with most of what togolosh said about signals, but I'll turn off my signal if I'm stopped at a red light in a dedicated turn lane. It's not usefully signaling anything to anyone, and the repetitious tick-tock gets old after a while.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:31 AM
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True fact: back when loose joints were still a unit of mercantile interest, I could simultaneously roll with both hands, though usually didn't because it tended to be a bit spilly. Nothing like needing to roll up a few hundred to get you to play with your technique.


Posted by: John F. Kennedy | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:32 AM
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"His profession can also be referred to as a "Flatulist," "Farteur," or "Fartiste"


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:32 AM
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77 - Being careful about the possibility of a stall doesn't impose any burden, so why not do it?

Because then you don't get to go as the light turns yellow.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:33 AM
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I do certainly agree that being careful about the possibility of a stall is a good idea in a setting where the cars are in fact likely to stall!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:34 AM
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84: Of course you do. Just pull out and go as it turns yellow.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:35 AM
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84: And some of us live in places where you will never, ever make that left (never) unless you are in the intersection as the light turns yellow.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:37 AM
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78 is embarrassing. I think I typed 8 instead of 28. Because later on I use a number larger than 8.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:39 AM
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87 gets it right. People complain about how turning left in Pittsburgh is impossible. Well, this is because of our total lack of one-way streets. Then they go to Philadelphia and are bamboozled by all the one-way streets, never taking note of the smooth fluidity with which people can turn left from one one-way street onto another.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:44 AM
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54: Whatever you do, always have someone else proof your stuff before it goes live. I'm a good-to-excellent proofer, but proved once again to myself that I can't proof my ownself worth a damn recently when I sent a brochure for my new company (my money!) off to the printer with two flipping typos. THere's $600 down the drain...

Incidentally, as evidenced by the fact that I'm here, still not scrounging up a ton of work here. Anybody needs any marketing/production/copywriting/proofing/brand or communications process consulting, give me a shout.

I'm looking at YOU, lurkers.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:44 AM
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89: one-way streets are super inconvenient frequently. Bring back the protected left, 'swhat I say.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:48 AM
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91: minimum two sets of a1 eyes at all times (at the mag we now have four sets but it's babysteps for the website)


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 9:52 AM
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A woman who lived in my co-op gave an extended rant on day in the kitchen about how she hated the term "anal". "Being neat is a GOOD quality!" she said. "Keeping things in order is BETTER." Her theory was that messy people have brought the term anal into wide use as a way to denigrate neat people and to excuse themselves from having to be neat.

I thought she was more right than wrong (although I am not conspicuously neat) and have never used that term since. Now I say neat or meticulous when that is what I mean.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:02 AM
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Freud was notorious for leaving huge piles of unwashed dishes in the sink.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:03 AM
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UNLESS I am mistaken, "anal" comes from Freudian psychology.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:04 AM
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Hey, you know what, Bave? Fuck you.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:05 AM
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yes we anal-expulsives totally won the framing war there


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:09 AM
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"Being neat is a GOOD quality!"

According to people who already exhibit that quality, sure. I think being drunk is a good quality, but I don't go around insisting nobody use the word "alcoholic".


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:10 AM
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Yeah, I don't think the origin of the term improves it.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:11 AM
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i wanted to name my future if there will be any of course baby Anar, which means a pomegranate and a semi-precious stone in my language, but then at least in Japan it would sound similar to anal, so had to drop that option


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:15 AM
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Whatever, Towelboy.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:15 AM
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Shove it up your ass, nosflow.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:19 AM
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I object to the use of the words "anal" or "anal retentive" to describe the quality of fastidiousness on different grounds: because it betrays an annoyingly facile understanding of Freud's theory of personality development.


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:20 AM
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Such a snot, pp.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:23 AM
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the stone is garnet, i looked up, in Russian if to translate the word means also a grenade, a really nice name it was imo
it's unfortunate that Japanese can't pronounce r, nda


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:24 AM
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96/102: I would have expected nosflow to reply with something more along these lines.


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:26 AM
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Bring back the protected left, 'swhat I say.

The prevailing view among new urbanist city planners is that left turn lanes are inimical to pedestrian-friendly streets.


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:35 AM
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One of the awesome things about driving a cop car is that it has an air horn and a PA system which can be used to "encourage" people to quit screwing around and drive properly.

There's a narc reading this? I deny everything.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:39 AM
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Oral Roberts' brother Anal really hated his name, but the third brother always endeavored to live up to his.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:50 AM
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paper markup is for suckers

FAIL.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:50 AM
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I have just finished scrubbing my kitchen floor. I sent my advisor my finished dissertation last night! And now I'm cleaning my entire apartment. After which I will do something like four loads of laundry. After which I will got to the grocery store.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:51 AM
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Hooray! I remember that feeling gloriously well.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:53 AM
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111,112: For me it was a feeling of bizarre disorientation. Going from 10-12 hours a day working on the damn thing to suddenly having very little to do was weird. I actually kept fucking around with little details of formating and the like after I turned it in because otherwise I'd have been walking around feeling guilty for not working on it. The solution to my discombobulation was copious amounts of beer. And sex. Stress relief sex is almost as good as makeup sex.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:58 AM
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Oh, and congratulations!


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 10:59 AM
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That too. But the laundry, the groceries, the cooking, the washing of the hair, all glorious.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:00 AM
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112 to 102.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:01 AM
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I realize that this thread is more about the physical world than the written word, but has anyone else been revising their little-bitchery in response to the Language Log posts on Strunk & White (and other debunkings)? I suspect that nosflow has -- although while I'm experiencing it as a great relaxation, I suspect he is undergoing some sort of little-bitchery dialectical synthesis the final outcome of which may not soon be known.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:08 AM
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FAIL.

All due respect, but you are so, so wrong. I've run textbook editing departments, I've run creative teams. Online edits are faster and more efficient (and records storage becomes unbelievable easier). There's a learning curve for getting to know the tools in whatever system you're using (Acrobat, Word, whatever), but it pays off very quickly.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:12 AM
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Going from 10-12 hours a day working on the damn thing to suddenly having very little to do was weird.

I've somehow managed to set things up such that I have a lot to do right now. Translate a book, wedding stuff, speak on a panel this Friday, rehearsals for a play that I'm dramaturging.

I was in a really weird state after I sent it off last night, though. I talked to Sifu on the phone at 4am, and then I made myself a big bowl of pasta, and then I drank a glass of bourbon.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:16 AM
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Congratulations, Blume!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:21 AM
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118:

ok chopper, here's two questions (they might just be low on the learning curve, which i accept i very much am at the moment)

1: Do you mean entirely reading and marking on-screen as you go? (In word or whatever?) Not using paper at all?
2: I would be inclined -- for the sake of my eyesight and speed and my own precision and a general ability to step back from the page and see it whole -- to mark up on paper, then move to on-screen, then read and double-check on paper.* This is not speedy overall, but it gives ME two different modes of reading, and I'll see different kinds of problem in the different modes. Doesn't electronic mark-up just reduce you to the one?

*Word with tracking is handy for others to see what's been changed, but it's AWFUL for checking you haven't introduced errors while you're making corrections, especially spaces before and after complex deletions, or doubled-up punctuation marks. (I may not be using it a sensible way yet, as I had to teach myself -- the people who asked me to use it are lousy at proofing so don't get it when I ask them about this.... )


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:31 AM
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oh and 3: does the Acrobat mark-up use something like printer's marks, or is it basically changing stuff on-screen but tracking what's been being changed?


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:34 AM
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121: I do a second quick scan through with the mark-up hidden to make sure I haven't missed anything like that.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:35 AM
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I want to give some positive reinforcement to tierce for the non-sms formatting of 121. My molars thank you. Keep up the good work!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:35 AM
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I praise Blume for her accomplishment but curse her for making me feel bad about myself.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:39 AM
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knives even butter knives point down for safety forks tines up for maximum cleanliness spoons arranged according to an exclusion principle such that you never have two spoons of the same size pointing the same direction in a single cage-segment tall glasses along the middle of the top rack side edges short glasses and coffee cups nearer the corners it's all completely fucking rational get the fuck away from my dishwasher you filthy filthy filthy filth


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:43 AM
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124: all such reinforcement is undone all day everyday by havin to correct other ppl's stupid grammar and spellin -- as established elsewhere on this thread i am an anal-expulsive, hence as eagle-eye pedant-by-trade, all my pent-up FURY at this prissy exactness and KorreKt OrthogrAphicKal doo-dah has to come out somewhere

it has been asked if i go back thru posts takin the caps out: ans = not always


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:45 AM
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127: +g +g +d +g, ffs.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:51 AM
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My wife does something similar, though definitely not as bad--she wouldn't put away anything that was unwashed, but she'll put away anything that comes out of the dishwasher, even if it's clearly objectively very unclean

Brock, Cascade Complete really is a superior dishwashing powder/soap/packet with liquid. It won't solve the problem entirely, but it will help.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:54 AM
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It won't solve the problem entirely, but it will help.

It will help Brock find a new wife? That's some amazing detergent!


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:57 AM
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mitch i live in the east end of london, i write it as i hear it -- in the future all words will be one letter les


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:58 AM
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H-L is my soul brother.

We have some stainless steel-clad appliances, and I've recently discovered that the difficulty of keeping them clean is a feature, not a bug, because when they look clean, you know they're really clean. Yay, clean.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 11:59 AM
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(as i actually hear it: vuh eas en uh lun'n) (except not so languidly drawled as that reads)


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:01 PM
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in the future all words will be one letter les
that's great, perhaps i'll start to omit all the necessary and unnecessary articles


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:02 PM
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"our annoyingnes goes to eleven"


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:05 PM
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in the future all words will be one letter les

But the guys in KISS will just go around behind you adding it back in.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:05 PM
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a lollard's work is only jus begun


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:06 PM
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Read and Tierce are taking over. OK with me I guess.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:13 PM
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i for one welcome our new agrammaticl overlords


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:19 PM
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a


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:19 PM
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u can ttly read it w/o


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:21 PM
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126 is correct. I worked as a dishwasher in a commercial kitchen, and even with the hella-awesome industrial dishwasher it makes a substantial difference how you arrange the dirty dishes. And doubleplus agree on the knives thing.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:21 PM
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seems i'm not in the working mood yet, so browsing the web reading blogs
have to wait until coffee will kick in
once thes are incorporated into, it seems it's difficult to get rid of them


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:24 PM
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I could live with H-L!

And 121 describes my current process perfectly. I should add that if I were running a team and trying to produce a textbook, I might very well use Chopper's system. But I am the most experienced editor and proofreader in my office by a country mile, not to mention one of the relatively few native English speakers, so at present things are hothoused in my own little world and it just doesn't make sense to try to do electronic edits.

Not least because the (very good) graphic designers we use cannot be trusted to properly read my TOTALLY LOGICAL OF COURSE printer's marks.

I'm not complaining; they do gorgeous design work and know things about visual display that I wouldn't be able to learn with twenty years of effort, but I don't look to them for copyediting.

Also, maybe I'm naive about the possibilities of Acrobat, but there are just so many circles and arrows and diagrams one can draw in hard copy to show how things ought to be moved around, especially when you are showing more than one option, and I have no idea how one would begin to replicate that in an electronic environment.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:32 PM
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I would freak out if I took a pan out of the cabinet and it were full of rancid bacon grease.

Agreed!

All that deliciousness should have been placed on a piece of fresh bread and eaten!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:39 PM
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all such reinforcement is undone all day everyday by havin to correct other ppl's stupid grammar and spellin

tierce is Fafnir?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:42 PM
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she'll put away anything that comes out of the dishwasher, even if it's clearly objectively very unclean

My father has been known to say, through gritted teeth, that the dishwasher does not possess a garbage disposal. I'm just bemused as to what happens in the long term -- if you put plates gunked with food into the dishwasher, the food has to go somewhere Do none of these people ever smell something disgusting and have to fish around in the bottom of the dishwasher to clean it out?

Also, back on the proofreading topic: I admit that another reason I am hesitant to do electronic edits is having witnessed some extremely embarassing reveals in supposedly public, final documents, where you could see their internal back-and-forths in the editing process.

I may want to debate with my boss the most politically wise way to present a piece of information, but I don't want my thought process documented for all the world to see. And there are a lot of ways for those comments to end up showing. User error, sure, but also software version issues (someone writes a document in one version of Word, someone edits in another version) and weird crap that happens when you convert to/from PDFs, etc. Like I said, embarassing.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:42 PM
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ful ritin iz depr'catd. ya unfogd!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:42 PM
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But before I let your program beat me down,
I'd die with a marker in my hand. Lord, Lord.
I'd die with a marker in my hand.


Posted by: Witt de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:44 PM
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tierce wishes an dreams we were fafnir


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:44 PM
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I hadn't even thought of the reveals in those terms -- the first time I did a rewrite-with-tracking in word it I was amused by the evidence of how often I changed my mind then changed it back again (and sometimes again) but I can live with that: it's not like there's some great sneering stylist on management mocking my solecisms -- the hire me to say "Boss, this is awful!" and on the whole haven't flinched so far.


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:48 PM
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y


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:48 PM
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Incidentally, I agree with M/tch about tierce's comments. By any large people here use capitalization, full punctuation, and canonical spellings of words if they exist (and avoid txtspk abbrvs for Christ's sake), and tierce's comments are not witty or interesting enough for me to read his or her deviation from that as anything but an irritating affectation. read gets away with it by working the surrealism angle, and B (barely) gets away with it because she doesn't comment much any more, but tierce: knock it off.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:50 PM
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If u c rd ths, u c gt a gd jb as a blgr.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:50 PM
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By any large people here

Are you calling me fat?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:51 PM
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Huh, 151 makes me feel bad for writing 153. That's the stuff!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:52 PM
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155: Sizeist.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:54 PM
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Shorter 153: Put a sockuppercase in it, tierce!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:54 PM
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if you don't like the content why get fussed abt the style? just ignore em sifu


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:55 PM
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155: dang.

Sent from my iPhone.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:55 PM
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156: Dammit, Sifu, keep it straight. I'm the good cop!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:57 PM
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159: the content's fine, it just isn't exciting or different enough to justify the stylistic deviation.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 12:57 PM
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Maybe tierce is in his/her ee cummings phase?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:00 PM
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I admit that another reason I am hesitant to do electronic edits is having witnessed some extremely embarassing reveals in supposedly public, final documents, where you could see their internal back-and-forths in the editing process.

This issue has been an ethical and legal issue for lawyers.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:03 PM
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to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best day and night to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight and never stop fighting full stops


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:04 PM
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165: Um, no, it's not the hardest battle any human being can fight.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:07 PM
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MY CONTENT COMPELS ATTENTION!


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:09 PM
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My tiny joke requires attention.


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:11 PM
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just write better content tierce
and also
no more capitals for me


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:13 PM
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the battle against zits is far harder


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:15 PM
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the hardest battle any human being can fight

I don't know if this is the hardest battle per se, but it sure seems like a bad idea all the same.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:15 PM
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I think man versus rhino would be the hardest battle any human could fight. You would have to hope that the rhino would just lose interest.


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:20 PM
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Hey, write how you like. I just personally find it annoying. And this is the thread for airing of such grievances. In time I'm sure I'll get over it. Max's little parting quotes in brackets no longer drive me up a tree the way they used to.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:21 PM
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hippos kill more


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:21 PM
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171: That dude should try his, um, hand at rapping instead.

172: I don't know, I don't think it would be that hard for the human. Rhinos are notorious for not having very good flow.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:23 PM
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One of the appealing things about unfogged, to me, is the fact that people go so far in the other direction from standard forum norms. I mean look:

Ya bro it wuz great seein him use st00p1d c4p1t4ls............................
its his deal tho haha sucka!
[ insert fifteen animated thumbs up graphics ]
lol

Nobody wants that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:23 PM
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173: Max's little parting quotes in brackets no longer drive me up a tree the way they used to.

You reserve that for avoiding being ransomed by your scots-irish presbyterian relations.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:24 PM
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147 is good. There have been a number of oopsie moments due to people publishing documents with edit history preserved. The problem is IMO mostly due to the fact that MicroSoft still hasn't grasped the elementary principles of user friendly software design. Their user interfaces look sort of like cargo cult landing fields, or those insane right wing screeds with scads of irrelevant footnotes. They understand that form is somehow related to function, but they just don't get the fact that it's function in the driver's seat. Form is in the trunk, bound and gagged. Form puts the lotion in the basket.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:26 PM
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and also
no more capitals for me

So valiant of you, John!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:27 PM
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I read something once about a crocodile pestering a baby hippo once and being promptly bitten in half. If they wanted to be carnivores they sure could be.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:28 PM
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176: OMG LOL! ; )


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:31 PM
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MicroSoft still hasn't grasped the elementary principles of user friendly software design.

don't be so impatient with a new startup


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:34 PM
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50 is indeed describing an objectively insane situation

I would want to see the pan before making a judgement. I suspect that the partner's answer might be something along the lines of "that is not a layer of rancid fucking bacon grease, it is the fucking seasoning on my lovely cast iron pan you ignorant dolt, and once it has been removed in the dishwasher, the only thing the pan is good for is as a crude club to stove your fucking head in".


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:35 PM
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I leave my greasy pans out on the stove for a few days in case I want some grease.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:36 PM
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171: he should clearly be allowed some steel blades.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:37 PM
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were i an ambitious young software-designer, not just an aged lowly g4ngst4 sub-editor dog-gaggin-on-new-tricks, i would make my name (and a mint!) developing a full-on bells-and-whistles electronic mark-up application that replicated or bettered printer's marks on-screen: it seems a strange gap in the market

chopper's right about storage though -- i feel bad about all the paper



Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:37 PM
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whereas she leaves shit strewn all over the White House, but obsessively cleans and decontaminates surfaces.

Clearly the answer is to patiently explain to Mme Polk that the inside of a pan is a surface.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:38 PM
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d00dz, see, the problem with writing sans capitals, with optional punctuation and so on is that there's a very real chance that people won't read your comments. If you still do it knowing this, one gets the impression you don't care whether people read your comments or not, that you're perhaps even talking (mumbling) to yourself. Fact! It's a tough world, I know.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:39 PM
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Or, just take to smearing bacon grease on all the counters anytime you find an unwashed pan in the cupboard.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:40 PM
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Smear bacon grease on your eyes, then you'll never be able to tell.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:45 PM
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we are able to select out audiences that way

we don't write for the mass


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:45 PM
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184: I leave my greasy pans out on the stove for a few days in case I want some grease.

I knew someone who used to do this! And actually use the grease that had been sitting there for however long.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:48 PM
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126 :-D


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 1:50 PM
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Smear bacon grease on your eyes, then you'll never be able to tell.

Right. You'll just think you're looking at a boudoir photograph of a pan.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:00 PM
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I feel that if there was no meat served and the dishes are visually clean, then they are clean.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:01 PM
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I disagree with 188, in that the problem is that once we let our standards of pedantry slip, unfogged will become as unreadably stupid as every other forum on the internet.

To fail to abide by the conventions everybody else does merely because you're feeling lazy or nonconformist or whatever not only makes your comments less interesting to read, it makes unfogged less interesting to read, and leads inexorably to more less-interesting people commenting here in more-or-less incomprehensible fashion.

My lawn, kids. Mine.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:04 PM
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196: Please revise your penultimate and final sentences, which both at present lack a main verb.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:07 PM
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191: John, in order to be really down with the kewl kidz, I think you're also going to have to wear your pants halfway down your butt.

And maybe get some piercings.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:07 PM
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heebie speaks good sense

also, if you leave dirty dishes out, don't leave them in water, because dried-on food smells less than fermented food


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:08 PM
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I have come distressingly close to fighting the battle described in 172. While staggering drunk.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:09 PM
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lipid peroxidation full of carcinogens, i mean those greasy pans.
the other day i tried to make some stir fried noodles, the noodles came up watery coz i put very little oil into it, my mom used to tell me that i make meals which fall out of one's mouth, coz it's always with minimum salt and oil, or if tea then it's milk or sugar
just naturally kinda stingy, perhaps
i mean my duty is to warn, carcinogens


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:11 PM
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hippos kill more

RUN!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:12 PM
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my argument is pretty much that you ("we") need tight AND loose, and you ("we") need a bit of both so the other one can recognise and define itself -- you can't have rigor w/o mortis; the neighb needs a coupla unmowed lawns with rusty cars on em, or the manicure elsewhere is wasted

on a professional pedant's note, you can't get away with "merely" and "whatever" in that sentence: the first means that there are reasons to fail to abide by conventions; the second that there aren't


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:14 PM
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once we let our standards of pedantry slip, unfogged will become as unreadably stupid as every other forum on the internet

I cast my lot with Sifu on this one. Call me elitist, but one of the reasons that the appeal of unfogged (such as it is) has endured (to the extent that it has) is that the standard of literacy in the comments section intimidates the less educated. Niggling pedantry about grammar and spelling serves the cause of intimidation. There are lots of fora on the internet, but relatively few that are frequented by intelligent commenters, and even fewer that are frequented nearly exclusively by intelligent commenters. Let's keep it that way.


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:15 PM
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197: incompetence should be pitied. I was talking about intentional deviance.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:15 PM
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202: Picture 7 in that series shows how nice rhinos are compared to hippos.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:16 PM
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that's one mean looking hippo
people were fighting a fight, i recalled a funny saying just can't translate funny enough, it sounds like what is the fuss, is there a fight? (like physical fighting)


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:16 PM
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203: for the loose, we may productively look everywhere else on the internet.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:16 PM
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Upon re-reading 204, I see that the hortatory sentence at the end lends itself to misinterpretation.


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:17 PM
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but not for the loose in creative tension w/the tight


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:18 PM
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tHINGS COULD BE WORSE, sIFU.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:18 PM
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Heh, yes, a pal of mine just announced to one and all she's started a (I'll spare you) "lolcapslock community dedicated to the discussion of Mcfly": I'm torn, bcz she's a really smart and funny writer (and Mcfly!), but lolcaps is my no-caps...


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:21 PM
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211: †1ngz kud b w0rz y4h bu† y0h g l3tz n4wt g0 th3rz.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:26 PM
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All due respect, but you are so, so wrong. I've run textbook editing departments, I've run creative teams. Online edits are faster and more efficient (and records storage becomes unbelievable easier).

Even assuming this is true, there are higher values than speed and efficiency. I like paper. I like the physical act of writing. I like not having to stare at a computer monitor every damn minute of the day. I think differently on and off the computer. I proofread more accurately on paper. Doodling can be a creative act.

Possibly it is the most reasonable way to run a textbook editing department, but it doesn't follow that it's the only reasonable way to edit, period.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:26 PM
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203.1 speaks chiefly to Sifu's 196, right? Not my 188, which still stands. I just tend to skip over run-on comments with few or no paragraph breaks and/or partial punctuation, etc. etc., because they're difficult to read. Nothing particularly personal against the commenters, and it doesn't annoy me (mostly), I just skip right past the majority of the time.

I realize I'm repeating myself there, but thought I'd clarify that I'm speaking for myself: I just ignore such comments and commenters. If nobody else does, then there's not a problem.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:27 PM
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183: Your partner has a point. You should never put cast iron in the dishwasher.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:28 PM
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f|_|k 1t 4ct4|_|4lly, 1 th1nk 1'z 5t1kk1n w/ l33t sp33k |_|nt1L t13rc3 q|_|1tz 1t.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:30 PM
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202: I thought all 26 would be of the dude running and was all disappointed. I'm a terrible human being.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:31 PM
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214: once again, a union functionary leads a pointless fight against productivity-enhancing technology.


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:31 PM
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00pz m15sp3ll3d 4ct|_|4lly m4h b4d!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:31 PM
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I sometimes tries to avoid caps when I'm chatting, but I always forget after a while.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:31 PM
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1: Do you mean entirely reading and marking on-screen as you go? (In word or whatever?) Not using paper at all?

Yup.

2: I would be inclined -- for the sake of my eyesight and speed and my own precision and a general ability to step back from the page and see it whole -- to mark up on paper, then move to on-screen, then read and double-check on paper.* This is not speedy overall, but it gives ME two different modes of reading, and I'll see different kinds of problem in the different modes. Doesn't electronic mark-up just reduce you to the one?

Back when I was editing medical and college textbooks (10+ years ago), my eyes were a bit younger, so the eyestrain wasn't such a big thing. But optimize your setup--lights lowish but ambient (e.g. the under-desk lighting that seems to be the rage), etc. If doing hardcore editing as your main gig, and not having to look at spreads, consider tipping your monitor so the long axis is vertical or getting a monitor big enough that you can look at a page at 125%. What kind of editing are you doing? Manuscript? Production?

*Word with tracking is handy for others to see what's been changed, but it's AWFUL for checking you haven't introduced errors while you're making corrections, especially spaces before and after complex deletions, or doubled-up punctuation marks. (I may not be using it a sensible way yet, as I had to teach myself -- the people who asked me to use it are lousy at proofing so don't get it when I ask them about this.... )

Turn on tracking, turn off showing tracking on screen. The answer to your other issue is to write macros. Lots and lots of macros. When I used to get manuscripts in from authors on disk, I would immediately run them through about 7 different formatting macros--get rid of double-space, Initial caps throughout, etc. Do this for all common style issues that you run into. Once you have 'em written, memorize your key commands and you're golden.

The other key thing to do is to get your spellcheck dictionary in working order--you can either do this manually (right click a red-underlined word that is actually spelled correctly and select "add to dictionary"--do this as needed) or buy a commercial dictionary to expand Word's built-in dictionary--there are different subject matter packages available. This was key for medical texts for me.

Oh, and if you pass manuscripts on for layout, write macros to handcode formatting other than ital, bold, and underline ( [H1], [H2], etc.--if you set this up the right way, your production people will be able to flow the text right in. It drastically increases their accuracy and speed.

Anyway, I've gone on for far too long, but my core advice is this: systematize and automate as much as you can so you have the time to work on editing instead of proofreading. It'll make your life a million
times better.

My e-mail is linked below if you want additional advice (or to fly me to London for a consulting engagement :-) ).


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:32 PM
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c4ps l0kz 4 n00bz


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:32 PM
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yes sorry parsimon, your point is entirely noted and respected -- you made it first quite soon after i started commenting regularly, but it's hard to respond to without seeming unintendedly snarky


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:33 PM
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214: Sure, if that's how you roll. I like paper too--all my brainstorming is done in a lineless paper notebook. But if you're doing it as the primary part of your job, and you have any sort of volume to contend with, electronic is the only way to go.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:35 PM
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214: "Witt de lollardie" in 149 clearly s/b "Sir Witt de lollardie".


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:37 PM
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224: Peace, then! All's well.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:38 PM
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|-|00r43 c0m1t33z!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:41 PM
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It's website proofing: and the issue is the interface between the web designers, who have frozen us out of any role in on-screen correction; so we have to supply them with amends in a way they understand. Basically as they're typing matter in wholesale, they make as many errors as they correct (and of course charge for the time they take) (it was a very stupid contract): I am trying to work out a way of supplying them with foolproof material to cut-and-paste, but it's an awful lot of extra work for me at the moment. Even if we just give them everything to run in from scratch -- correcting the errors ourselves -- there's still a ton of little niggly bits of stuff, widows and the like, that we won't see till it's done and they won't think of till we point it out.

My main gig is magazines, and basically i'm fine with that -- my various editors trust me to do whatever i want and I do plenty of macros and quasi-macros, and I'm probably as fast as I'm likely to get. The web stuff is a steep curve cz it's full of lolkidz who aren't used to thinking about the way words work...


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:44 PM
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d()()d ! ]-[34r+ |_33+5p34](


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:48 PM
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I resent dsquared's implication that I would put a cast iron pan in the dishwasher. This isn't seasoning, it's a quarter inch of fat. Also, muffin tins that haven't been washed with a layer of crumbs. There's no argument for that, is there?

Nonetheless, other domestic matters leave me with not a leg to stand on as far as complaining about it goes. (And the culprit is neither depressed nor generally slovenly, just with a bizarre blind spot.) So I wash as I find.


Posted by: James Polk | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:48 PM
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Except I can't remember how to do Rs (Rs feck grrls)


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:49 PM
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1tz n0t 4b0|_|† r4|>l4c1|\| 3v3r1 l3††3 1|\/| j|_|z †ry1n †0 k33|> 1t l00$e.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:53 PM
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once again, a union functionary leads a pointless fight against productivity-enhancing technology.

/throws wooden shoe


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:53 PM
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$33 j00 g0tt4 |-|4\/ b0†|-| †1†3 4n|) l00s3 4ll r1†3 |\|3>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 2:58 PM
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00|>z 4†|_||>1d |-|†|\/|l 4t3 |\/|4|-| g33333|\|1|_|z


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:00 PM
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See the full stop in 233 made me laugh! l33t has laws and habits -- it's nothing but in fact -- and when you tweak them just so, it's funny!

i'm not sure how much of an eye ee cummings had: the way the line runs at 165 is good -- longest word "nobody" very early on then long long slog through his tamped-down rhythm -- but the sentiment* is as rubbish as M/tch noted: he always comes across sorry for himself (cummings, not M/tch)

*his, i mean, obviously what i did with it is comedy beyond price


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:04 PM
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205: All right, I pity you. Now revise the fucking sentences.

222 et sup: why not compromise here? If you get the right kind of felt-tip marker, you can probably write on computer screens, thus gaining all the advantages of both pen-and-ink and on-screen proofreading.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:05 PM
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he always comes across sorry for himself (cummings

Oh he does not. In that poem yes, always, no.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:06 PM
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238: 1†z |\/|4|-| l4\/\/n, |<1|]z. 1† 1z |\/|1n3.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:09 PM
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I lived in a house with 4 other people a while back, and dishes were always a problem. We could have up to 4 separate dinners a night. So we start with a mostly full dish drainer. Dinner one cleans up, piling wet dishes on top of the dry ones. Dinner two does the same. I eat and leave my dishes for the next day since there's no room for them in the drainer. This gets me grief.

So I empty the dish drainer the next morning. This gets me grief for making noise while they're trying to sleep.

I don't live there anymore, and I have only now restored the seasoning on my cast iron pan.


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:09 PM
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Clearly the answer is to patiently explain to Mme Polk that the inside of a pan is a surface.

I just realized that two different presidential commenters posted as Polk in this thread. The other one was first, so my bad. For the record, "James Polk" and "James K. Polk" are not the same commenter. And Mrs. James K. Polk would never put away a frying pan with a quarter inch of bacon grease in it.


Posted by: James K. Polk | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:12 PM
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Dinner one cleans up, piling wet dishes on top of the dry ones.

Can I just say that this drives me freakin' bananas. Yet somehow I'm being "nitpicky" when I mention it. Grr. You better believe I sometimes put the dry dishes away noisily.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:17 PM
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Chiming in with more support for capitalization and full sentences. I think it is kind to take as much of the burden of communication upon oneself as one can, rather than burdening the reader with self-indulgent forms.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:24 PM
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Mercy!


Posted by: J4|\/|3$ !<<full stop> P01_|< | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:27 PM
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||
Chyron on CNN just now: "Mary Matalin joins CNN."
On the screen: James Carville smiling ghoulishly, unknown to me CNN commentator, Mary Matalin grimacing in a smilish way.
Gads!
|>


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:32 PM
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I recommend (and no doubt have recommended here before) The Enormous Room.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:32 PM
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247: yes, it's a lovely nightclub. Somewhat obscure name, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:36 PM
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You better believe I sometimes put the dry dishes away noisily.

The odd part is that parsimon lives alone.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:39 PM
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having started down this road, i think i have to read that, thx redfoxtailshrub: i *loved* eec as a kid, then went off him as a grown-up, largely for sifu-esque reasons (unconvinced the content justifies the shtick; the politics of anti-convention is as often manipulative and shaky as the politics of transparency-via-convention is stifling and timid); i feel honour-bound to follow him up further...

i'll be sad if i don't get a copy with exactly that cover


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:42 PM
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|_||-| 1 m34|\|t "y3z 1tz a l0\/3ly n1†3kl|_|b \/\/†f r3 †h3 n4m3 †|-|0"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:43 PM
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(that cover: ie the one on the wikipedia page)


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:44 PM
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241: Apparently, Mo was living in my current house. It's odd that we never met.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:49 PM
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248: And what a weird stage direction. "Enormous Room. Ophelia. Her heart is a clock." I mean, wtf Heiner?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 3:53 PM
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i am writing this comment with bad grammar without caps or punctuation so that parsimon and others will skip it although how would i know if they skipped it there is a little leap of faith involved in a refined and sophisticated trolling


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 4:17 PM
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249: Hey, yeah man, I showed myself a thing or two about those dry dishes, didn't I? Just never you mind about the chips around edges of the plates. I dunno why they're there.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 5:08 PM
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||
I doubt they put it on their gift registry, but here's what I'm giving Sifu and Blume for their wedding.
|>


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 04-23-09 7:05 PM
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They blocked my youtube at work. I finally saw the clip last night. It wouldn't be a good idea to work for Jamie Heineman.

I really do like that mythbusters show. I am glad my kids like it too. I am way tired of watching kid shows. Except for "Batman: the brave and the bold" of course.


Posted by: Lemmy Caution | Link to this comment | 04-24-09 1:47 PM
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257: That would be good for Apo.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-27-09 7:22 AM
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I prefer the real stuff.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-27-09 8:15 AM
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