I don't think you have to go any farther than (1), but I am probably the least etiquette oriented person here. Remember, though, if you have Hawaiian Punch with you, no one will particularly notice anything else.
Yeah, I like (a). Recently, my uniform of choice seems to be black skirt, black shirt, with colorful shoes and/or bracelets and earrings. It's so much cheerier than black on black on black.
I also think that (i) would suffice.
There is nothing non-cheery about black on black, though.
I was secretly hoping that everyone would cheer for (ii) because it allows me to be the laziest. And I do like my black shoes and haven't worn them yet.
What about a yellow ribbon and black shoes?
a yellow ribbon
Supporting our troops is always a nice touch, especially in Colorado.
Actually, you should be careful with the ribbon; it would be very bad form if you fell apart and died in the middle of a wedding.
I meant, a green ribbon. No, wait. A pink ribbon, then. No, crap. Does blue signify anything?
You'll be happier with new shoes, though! If it were a winter wedding, I'd say go for it, but for summer, you do sort of want something more than a black shoe with a black dress. I'm trying to find a good picture of the Moda Spana red silk sandals that have made my black outfits so much more delightful, but it will be a minute.
Oh, that's a good point about it being a summer wedding - that does make head-to-toe black a bit much. Maybe I can find some baby blue shoes. I would enjoy pairing the dress with baby blue.
I really like black and baby blue. I also like baby blue nail polish, because I am a tweener.
Two of the catalogs that I order from occasionally are so embarrassingly tweeny. The photos all show kids posed at their lockers, or at the ice cream stand, or crowded in someone's bedroom with all their girlfriends.
Related, but not actually helpful, anecdote:
My sister, a Minneapolitan-by-birth like me, married a Greek dude. There were two ceremonies, one in mpls and one in Athens. We went to meet the family a year beforehand, and the mil-to-be thought it necessary to tell my mom on the first night they met, "You must not wear a black dress to the wedding in Greece." So if Colorado is a region of Greece, I recommend not wearing a black dress.
As long as you wear black nail polish and thick black eyeliner, I think you can wear any color dress.
http://www.gothsinhotweather.com/
I was at a family wedding a few weeks ago and worried beforehand that my black skirt would be inappropriate (though it would be too frilly for a funeral). In fact, nearly every other woman there was wearing a relatively plain black or dark gray or dark blue dress so the sage green of my blouse was conspicuously colorful. This was in the northeastern US.
13: If you're going to goth-y for a wedding, it's all about the righ accessories
15: With that accessory, I don't think you need any actual clothing to be goth.
Definitely add a ribbon, or even better, a bright, short-sleeved cardigan. There are some good examples here: http://www.ssasychic.com/fashion/short-sleeved-cardigans-for-spring-2009/
I'm from Houston, where wearing black to a wedding pretty much signified that you don't approve of the groom.
I currently live in Manhattan, where everyone is in black, including the bridesmaids.
Ask the bride, or her mother?
Shamhat is wise.
A colorful ribbon and matching stockings lets you wear the black shoes you like.
shamhat's right; people's feelings vary.
as long as you *don't* do black-on-black-on-black, i think you'll be okay. all-black really is too much! red shoes and a necklace? or a pashmina/shiny pretty shawl that complements (w/o exactly matching) the color of your shoes?
i personally really hate the idea of wearing black to a wedding, but i recognize this as being out-dated of me. especially in your circumstances, though, it makes sense. and you will be wearing a brightly-colored baby over your shoulder, surely!
(unless you've got him in the all-black get-up scheme, too?!)
I hope wearing black to a wedding is ok because I only have a black suit and am to attend a wedding shortly.
Guys are allowed to wear any kind of business suit. I'm going to a wedding soon in the dark grey thing that I use for job interviews.
Just wear a bright tie.
It's ok if you're one of the pallbearers, nosflow.
Hones question though. Did you originally get it for a funeral?
Me, or Nose-flow?
Nos-flow. Having a single suit and that being black is I suspect a little unusual, is all.
The only wedding we went to when my daughter was a baby was a costume-party wedding. I say just go with that, and declare it a costume party wedding.
As for you, though, I think you'll be fine in the black dress, but sounds like you might be more comfortable if you put a little color somewhere. Sash, as you said, or something on your shoulders, would be enough, I think.
sounds like you might be more comfortable if you put a little color somewhere.
Purple hair and green body paint. Very good with the LBD.
you lot are doing a terrible job of helping me procrastinate here at work. just saying.
Officially you're not supposed to wear black to a wedding. Is the Jammies clan bizarrely pinchbutt, though? Bc no one really gives a shit anymore. Especialy for an evening wedding.
5: have you seen the "support our troops" desert camo truck nutz?
I just wore black to a wedding (albeit the dress has a white lace inset at the midsection). I was definitely not the only one, and I didn't feel that it was inappropriate in the least.
Hones question though. Did you originally get it for a funeral?
Actually, I originally got it for ... a wedding! And this was with my mother's more-than-consultation, moreover. In retrospect it's a puzzling decision.
Shamhat has it right. There isn't one set of accepted etiquette -- it's contextual and somewhat geographical. If you're worried about actually upsetting J's sister, just ask her or her mother directly. If she's not the kind to care much either way, then the only reason to avoid black is if there is a whole cadre of extended family who will cluck disapprovingly and make the whole thing far more of a deal than it needs to be.
Everyone who says Hawaiian Punch will divert attention is totally correct, too.
Yup, I'd go for (a) too. I've worn a black dress to a summer evening wedding, with a royal blue boa. And black heeled sandals. (The bride wore a very fancy long non-white dress, showing so much cleavage that her step-MIL (also my then-boyfriend's mother) said, "I knew the theme was supposed to be a Midsummer Night's Dream, but I wasn't expecting TIT-ania.")
There isn't one set of accepted etiquette -- it's contextual and somewhat geographical.
That being said, if you don't already know this answer it probably doesn't matter so much. Usually either you are part of the social grouping solidly enough that you already know the expectations, or far enough out of it that if you violate a local norm you were unaware of, people are mostly very forgiving. Except the sort it's impossible to please. In general, intent to give offense is usually weighed.
Or you could wear your black shoes but accessorise yourself and HP with a bright and beautiful silk ring sling.
Hard to beat the HP accessory, for this purpose.
You should know, heebie, that buying shoes for a wedding is super complicated. It took the better part of two days and about two dozen peole's help (including commenters here) to get mine.
Two days! Ha!
Actually, whilst I'm sure that's nothing for some people, I just wandered about the West End with a bit of ribbon for an afternoon before I magically found the very thing I wanted.
Which ones did you go for in the end?
40 is why you should always go barefoot to weddings, weather permitting.
you lot are doing a terrible job of helping me procrastinate here at work
Did you already see this short Michael Jackson tribute essay?
Have you followed this story out of the UK? A different angle on the outing issue that bubbled up at Obsidian Wings recently, having to do with whether a blogging police officer can be revealed if his blogging is violating department policy.
Is this study as full of baloney as the newspaper write-up makes it sound? (It's a couple of economists trying to explain patterns in interracial marriage.)
We argue that a simple preference for a taller husband (or shorter wife) can explain part of the gender-specifiĀ c asymmetries across ethnic groups in the propensity to outmarry. Blacks are taller than Asians, and their height distribution is closer to whites. Because they are taller, black men have better prospects on the white marriage market than Asian men. For women, the reverse is true. Because Asians are relatively short on average, women fare substantially better on the white marriage market than black women."
And finally, did you know Unfogged is blocked by Denver airport's wireless connection due to "porn" content? Now you do.
I wore a black dress (with white contrast stiching) to an evening wedding just last month and many others were wearing black as well. I also wore black shoes.
I wouldn't even bother with buying new shoes. If you want some color, how about a purse or some cool jewelry?
26: a costume-party wedding
Gah. You'd think that'd make things easier, right? "Just wear anything, no rules here!" So for the costume party wedding I went to a couple of years ago -- not actually framed as such, the dress code was described to me as "there is none, wear whatever you're comfortable in; the bride is kind of costumey" -- I just wore, uh, a kind of hippie skirt and some kind of embroidered shirt, don't really remember.
I have never felt so out of place! Everyone else was dressed in, like, fairie costumes 'n' shit. Shimmery sparklies sprinkled on their faces, sweeping wizard robes, garlands of flowers 'round their heads, barefoot, trailing scarves. Egad: nobody told me!
Really funny lesson in the relativity of dress. In regular society I'd have looked like a hippie freak; in these circumstances, I looked like I needed to chill out or something. Heh.
Really funny lesson in the relativity of dress.
This is something that can really screw you up across continents.
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My cat just hopped up on my dining room table and puked directly on my phone. Gee, thanks.
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47: Yeah, it brought home to me that there's really no such thing as median, won't-offend-anyone, won't-stick-out dress.
And finally, did you know Unfogged is blocked by Denver airport's wireless connection due to "porn" content? Now you do.
Must be either temporary or a recent development.
My cat just hopped up on my dining room table and puked directly on my phone.
tech critics, what are you going to do?
Hi everybody!
I've been watching too many old episodes of The Simpsons - I totally heard that in the Dr. Nick voice.
52: My brother used to adore Billy Idol.
Hi Teo.
I've become so ennerdulated that nowadays when I hear "Billy Idol" I don't think of GenX or "Kiss Me Deadly," but "He stole his look from Spike."
Glad to see people catching on to the reference.
56: Sadly, no. Ennerdulated, huh? All I get from that is a riff on uneducated, which I'm sure is not the only resonance, at all. Ennervated ... eh, I don't know. I will say that I never got my brother's Billy Idol thing, but then, when I asked him a couple of years ago for one of the new Jeff Beck albums for Christmas, he confessed that he listened to a bit of it and asked himself, "What the fuck is she listening to?"
She means she has become nerdy, parsley.
Here you go Ari. I did not know they had POW/MIA ones, too!
Glad to see people catching on to the reference.
I should have realized it was purposeful; I thought my brain was imposing something on it that wasn't actually there.
Oh, nos is right. A few months ago in Chicago snark, redfox, CA, and I went to dinner and I ordered an "enfrijolada": that which has been enbeanulated. We were all delighted with this. So now I refer to things as en-X-ulated.
Some great copy:
"We've Respectfully placed the Yellow Ribbon designating Support the Troops on our Exclusive 8" Customized Desert Scheme Camo Nutz. Your participation..."
60: Oh! I see. Thanks. It's possible I overthink these things. Or maybe "nerd" doesn't occur to me. It seems like an old-fashioned term. Buffy thinkers don't seem nerdy. Well. So that was weird.
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I somewhat surprised to learn just how bitter, but also how delicious, apricot kernels are. Cooking with cyanide precursors!
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I thought my brain was imposing something on it that wasn't actually there.
You'd never make it as a critic.
My (step) mother in law wore black to my wedding.
69: And look how that whole thing turned out.
*ducks; runs away*
Ooh. I just remembered that I wore black to my best friend's wedding. Of course, I was a bridesmaid and she picked out my dress, so I'm pretty sure she was okay with it.
I should have realized it was purposeful; I thought my brain was imposing something on it that wasn't actually there.
If you don't stop privileging authorial intent B is gonna police you
Huh. I thought black was the all-purpose formal that could never go wrong. I know too many goths, perhaps.
It's as if people have forgotten how to put together the perfect outfit.
I'm surprised it took 13 comments before the suggestion of a goth theme arose.
Perhaps you could wear a Burberry slanket over your black dress, for Telluride evenings are in the low 40s F.
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re Billy Idol, thanks again to the commentariat for identifying the Nouvelle Vague, wedding singers.
I am oddly conservative in ritual dressing for weddings and funerals and I tend to agree that one shouldn't wear black to a wedding. However, not being compelled to do unnecessary shopping trumps that rule (and many others) in my book. You or Jammies should check with his sister.
*Don't wear black to a funeral if you're not family.
Wore a black suit to the wedding I just emceed and it seems to have gone over fine. A few black dresses in evidence, nobody seemed to look askance.
Black is fine at a wedding, provided you have some colour to go with. If your dress is 50s style, get a nice bright hat.
I've become so ennerdulated that nowadays when I hear "Billy Idol" I don't think of GenX or "Kiss Me Deadly," but "He stole his look from Spike."
I generally explain that I am capable of distinguishing fantasy and reality, I just choose not to.
Yeah, I'm planning to wear a black dress with shiny bits on the bodice from the BCBG outlet which has a ruffly short-sleeved silky white top to my BF's borther's wedding. I think it will go nicely from day into evening.
This is not because I seek out lots of black clothes. It's because European clothes always fit me better.
77: Weddings are emceed? I guess they are; never thought of it that way. It certainly provides a nice image: And Now, Ladies and Gentlemen! The official person will join us to perform the necessaries! Let us all stand, or sit, or applaud, or cough in preparation, or straighten our collars and hush the children.
I went to one wedding with an emcee, who was a friend of the family, I think. I could see the upside: the emcee was in charge of making sure that the required events (cake-cutting, first dance, toasts, etc.) happened in good time and with sufficient attention paid before we all got kicked out of the venue. Also, having someone whose job it is to do that allows the other guests and celebratees to relax and get drunk and mingle or whatever.
official person
"officiant", in the official parlance, I believe.
Well, I've been to weddings where there is a person doing this stuff, but it's generally been the DJ.
84: Yes, I almost typed that, but decided against it.
JM, yeah, I hadn't thought of the emcee in terms of the reception, just the wedding itself. But sure, for the reception, or the rehearsal dinner. The weddings I've been to that involved various readings by friends of the bride and groom had an emcee of sorts to explain just who, say, Nancy who was about to read a Baudelaire poem that spoke to the couple, was. 'Cause otherwise that might seem to the aunts and uncles like it was coming out of left field. Unless Nancy wanted to introduce herself, I guess. It makes sense to have an emcee sometimes.
Technically, in theory, women shouldn't wear black to a wedding. (Men get away with it. Completely sexist. I say this knowing that my only suit is also black and I wouldn't hesitate to wear it to a wedding.) However, I'd rank it with not wearing white after Labor Day in terms of having fallen out of enforcement. In the extremely unlikely event that anyone says anything, I think, "Well, it was that or white and I certainly didn't want to compete with the bride!" should suffice. Anyone who actually says anything, though, is a lost cause anyway so fuck 'em.
That said, I confess that I grew up in a family where these sorts of rules were rigorously enforced so even in the back of my otherwise slacker head I have a very quiet editorial voice. I was at the funeral of a close relative last year, in my hometown, and when a local busybody started in on how things had changed in some ominous fashion (meaning that there were more than a handful of non-whites there now) what I said was that it was about time since the town clearly needed some fresh blood but what I thought was, "The fuck someone wearing white sweatpants to my cousin's funeral is talking shit about anyone else."
white sweatpants to my cousin's funeral
Wow.
I tend to be a lot more conservative in terms of how one should dress for a funeral than for a wedding, anyway, because a wedding is supposed to be a celebration and I think that automatically opens it up to a lot more individual expression.
I'd ask the bride or bride's representative (friend, maid of honor, whatever) quietly whether black would be considered appropriate. Most of the weddings I've been to it hasn't been an issue at all, but it's the sort of attire question that if someone thinks it's a problem to wear black, it's likely to be thought to be a big problem.
88: For reals.
Also, 90 is extremely good advice.
Apparently there are books on how to emcee a wedding, though I didn't manage to lay hands on any of them before my gig. Typically you're supposed to provide a little bit of humorous patter (but not attempt a comedy show, the bride and groom are the stars of the occasion) while moving the structured / scheduled parts of the reception along.
At this particular reception, instead of clinking glasses to make the bride and groom kiss (which can get tiresome and over-frequent), they decided on the unusual measure of having a competitive "Who Want to Be a Millionaire"-style quiz show in which tables had to earn the kiss by answering a trivia question about the bride and groom. So actually the majority of the time I spent on the mic was as the quiz-master -- which was a ton of fun, really. (Especially since they also decided to award points to correct answers and dole out a prize for the "winning table." It came down to a three-way-tie for first place that had to be resolved with a dance-off.) Other than that, yeah, just organizing the receiving line, introducing the speakers, telling people were to put gifts and party favours, thanking the host venue, stuff like that.
I tend to be a lot more conservative in terms of how one should dress for a funeral than for a wedding, anyway, because a wedding is supposed to be a celebration
Yes, this, absolutely.
92.2: That's interesting. One of the most to-marvel-at weddings (receptions) I went to was for a bride and groom whose work was in hotel management -- they worked in running the hotel restaurants and hosting events in their hotel chain's banquet rooms. Sounds hideous in a way, not a life I would live, but hell, they knew food, and pomp and circumstance. Their own reception was a show-stopping event punctuated by the unveiling of the baked alaska (onstage, costumed people setting things aflame with freakin' torches, huge whoops and applause all 'round); an incredible shifting offering of aperitifs, wines during dinner, cordials after dinner; and a three-course meal whose courses were carefully described and introduced by the bride as we were being served.
Heh. It was a pageant. I got really drunk/happy, actually, and danced a lot with the very tall Dutchmen who'd flown over for the occasion.
The hippie-fairie wedding I described earlier was more excellent, of course, but that's just the way I swing.
I think at least 75% of the women were wearing black at the last four weddings I attended. I made note of this because I showed up in red at the first one, and felt very out of place.
I've worn black to several weddings, with a colorful shawl or shrug or something, and while I've worried about it beforehand, I certainly wasn't the only woman wearing black, and I haven't felt at all out of place. (Except for the time I flew out to a wedding having forgotten to pack a dress and had 45 minutes and $30 to spend finding a new one; wound up with a black dress that, while lovely, was clearly meant for both the wrong time of day and the wrong season. But that was the fault of the cut and the fabric, not the color.) Whereas I think I would feel very inappropriately dressed in pants, no matter how swanky or gaily colored.
87.2: I know that editorial voice and can only say that I'm impressed and envious that yours is very quiet. Mine can precipitate arguments by shouting down all kinds of good sense about how, e.g., the inner envelope in wedding invitations serves no useful purpose whatsoever.
92 et al - see, I would think that it was the best man's job to do this sort of thing. Also, we don't (at least, not at any wedding I've ever been to) have the tradition of getting the bride and groom to kiss. At The Worst Wedding I Have Ever Attended, they had a little golf putting game that had that purpose. Jesus Fucking Christ.
TWWIHEA was Canadian and had a severe lack of alcohol.
Surely the bride and groom can be presumed to have an interest in kissing each other without needing to be egged on?
I've never seen a game to earn kisses, just the generic water glass clanking. A friend of mine got married when she was 7 mos. pregnant -- when the wedding guests kept on and kept on clanking their water glasses to get them to kiss, her father stood up and said, "Folks -- I think it's pretty clear that they've already done some kissing."
Her father has some old-fashioned ideas about babies.
I've never seen a game to earn kisses
I was at one with this game: you had to pick up a piece of jello with a pair of chopsticks and carry it from your table to a bowl at the head table. If you made it all the way without dropping it, they'd kiss.
I almost deleted 102 because it was unsigned.
Commenters, take warning!
Was it possible to graciously decline to take part in this ritual?
Was it possible to graciously decline to take part in this ritual?
Absolutely. In fact I believe it was primarily intended to limit the demands.
There was, of course, no reason for presidentiality on this exchange other that the lame joke of 104.
107: You know, I was wondering. But folks go presidential for the darnedest things.
I do it just to confuse things.
Attended a fun and moving wedding yesterday afternoon in practically perfect weather (at least for DC in June). My friend, a fireman, married a woman he met in high school, a professional pianist.
Many black-and-white summer dresses among the guests, including ms bill, and several solid black dresses with colorful shrugs/scarves and/or great jewelry and/or colorful shoes.
97: see, I would think that it was the best man's job to do this sort of thing.
The Best Man isn't always comfortable with public speaking, alas. Besides he does plenty of other planning and behind-the-scenes things. I've been to many a wedding that should have kept the Best Man off the mic except for his toast.
96: Whereas I think I would feel very inappropriately dressed in pants, no matter how swanky or gaily colored.
We have a long way to go, don't we? But actually, I've been to weddings with women wearing pants, one of whom was even one of the flower girls women, and it didn't seem odd at all.
An elaboration of the rules from someone who seems to care a great deal.
(I myself use nearly every wedding as an excuse to sew a new dress--if they care enough to invite me, I should make my best effort, shouldn't I?)
So there, heebie: If you really wanted to make your best effort, you'd sew a new dress.
From that thread, I enjoyed this comment:
Of course, in this day and age, people attend black tie evening weddings in black trousers and a wool pullover. I have seen it myself, otherwise, I would not have believed it.
I do hope she brings her smelling salts with her wherever she goes.
I can't remember any more why it's supposed to be inappropriate for women to wear pants, to be honest. Is it because the pants might show the shape of our crotches, and legs for that matter? Because pants are utilitarian, while women are not supposed to be capable, but rather ephemeral? Man! This is some weird stuff that we still hang on to.
Attending a wedding Sept. 8th. Wedding party will be in black with pink sashes. Favorite color of bride and MOB is BLACK. They prefer guests to wear black.
Follow rules or make bride happy????
There are rules other than "make bride happy"?
On the other hand, having a BLACK MOB there doesn't sound like a good idea.
I was not aware of any tradition of attempting to get the bride and groom to kiss by any means, whether clinking glasses or elaborate games. Clearly I have not been to many weddings.
I can't remember any more why it's supposed to be inappropriate for women to wear pants, to be honest.
Because pants are for men.
the pants might show the shape of our crotches
Not nearly enough, actually.
've been to many a wedding that should have kept the Best Man off the mic except for his toast.
The only Best Man speech I've given was recently quoted back to me by the bride, four years later. It was basically a one-liner.
116: Remember, women are supposed to be ethereal, not ephemeral.
I don't know that anyone has ever actually told me that it's inappropriate for women to wear pants to weddings, but in all the weddings I've been to, I've seen exactly one woman in pants. And she was wearing the flowy is-it-pants-or-is-it-a-skirt thing(s).
To be honest, I have so few chances to gussy up in non-professional settings that I quite like having to wear dresses to weddings. At least in the abstract; ask me halfway through dress-shopping and you'll get a very different answer.
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Also, with my internet down, I'm forced (forced, I tell you!) to come to one corner of the kitchen to refresh comment threads, because this is is where I can leech the tubes off an incautious neighbor's open wireless network. It's really rather ridiculous.
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I've been to weddings with women wearing pants
I've been to one with men waring sarongs -- the groomsforce, in fact.
My best man gave a downright hysterical toast at my first wedding. Totally hit the sweet spot -- a frisson of teasing the various parents, another of innuendos that sailed over the heads of the right people.
A few months later, encouraged by his success, he gave a best man toast at the wedding of another mutual friend from college, a woman whom he'd been sleeping with when we all shared a house. There may be a way to calibrate an innuendo that involves one's own carnal knowledge of the bride. Lord knows he didn't find it.
122: Oh, yeah. Long memories around here.
Thank you, thread, for reminding me of the text message sent to a friend of mine by a woman of Eastern European extraction attending a family wedding:
"Wedding disaster imminent. One aunt coming in black. One uncle coming in shorts. Sickly cousin. Grief-stricken grandmother. One Russian police chief arriving at grandmother's tonight, ability to speak English unknown. Probable punchup between Russians and former Sov Bloc countries. xx M"
I'd say that all depends on whether the bride is particularly fussed about its being Her Perfect Day. If so, fraught for all; if not, potentially a good time for those not taken out by fisticuffery.
Maybe Her Perfect Day would involve fisticuffery, though. Again, always best to ask the bride.
I've never gotten the Her Perfect Day thing. That just might be because, by definition, anything that requires not much sleep, wrangling relatives, millions of photos, much speculation on my sex life, and being the center of attention is essentially my worst day.
Shit. This thread reminds me that I have two days to decide if I'm going to go to the wedding on the opposite coast of a college friend I haven't seen or talked to much in four years.
If that means coming to California, Oregon, or Washington, you should do it, essear. Just the other day you were saying you missed the place.
135: I like it when I'm not sure if you're commenting on poor grammar (probably so, but I've no clue what I did wrong) or just making a joke.
If it means coming to British Columbia or Alaska, though, don't bother.
Properly it should be "many speculations".
Really I didn't understand why your wedding should involve much speculation on your sex life. You're wearing white or you aren't, right?
going to go to the wedding on the opposite coast of a college friend I haven't seen or talked to much in four years.
Why have the people whose wedding it is described the location in such an opaque way? Or are they trying to avoid this person?
Really I didn't understand why your wedding should involve much speculation on your sex life.
Perhaps speculation is the wrong word. I dislike the innuendo at weddings about the wedding night, the honeymoon, etc. I think I prefer much more forthright commentary.
Assuredly I do not understand the speculation upon the bride's sex life either. Parenthetical might come from a different tribe.
I think I prefer much more forthright commentary.
"So, you guys have been doing a lot of fucking lately, haven't you?"
144: Hey, that takes real chutzpah to say; not everyone is going to do it, unlike the, heh heh wedding night wink wink variety of comment.
Oh, that.
I've only been to one wedding but it seemed mercifully free of such low discussion.
116: I can't remember any more why it's supposed to be inappropriate for women to wear pants, to be honest. Is it because the pants might show the shape of our crotches, and legs for that matter?
122: 116: Remember, women are supposed to be ethereal, not ephemeral.
I thought it was because of the need to be prepared for a sudden, unpredicted form of giving birth.
Or possibly needing to pee, at any rate.
max
['If it made sense... things aren't supposed to make sense, dammit.']
132 makes an excellent point.
Mostly I don't understand the Perfect Day business because it's so self-defeating. Seriously, you're crying in the bathroom because the napkins weren't folded just right? But you married the man you love, right? Doesn't that make it the best day ever, up to and perhaps even beyond the point where the livestock from the neighboring emu farm gets loose and crashes the reception and spontaneously combusts? ...It doesn't? Okay, I probably shouldn't be your bridesmaid.
146: Lucky you!
Hey, it wasn't my wedding. Laydee.
There may be a way to calibrate an innuendo that involves one's own carnal knowledge of the bride.
It's all in the tone. Our Officiant got laughs from a select few people just with "I've known Hamilton and [Sonia] for a... very long time." This was an allusion to the days when my first wife and I would drive, together, to commit adultery, separately, with Officiant and [Sonia], respectively.
144: "So, you guys have been doing a lot of fucking lately, haven't you?"
"Got tired of having to go out on a date so that you'd have an excuse to screw, did ye?'"
max
['Beats immediate high amputation, I suppose.']
147: Or possibly needing to pee, at any rate.
This is excellent! It's best for women to wear skirts because you never know when they might need to pee!
only been to one wedding
Now that's something I don't understand. I've probably been to about 6 in the last couple years alone. And that's with skipping a couple. And I've been to a wedding I don't even remember (because I was too young, and not because I was OMG SO WASTED).
148: I would hate to have every day of my marriage be like "Wow, this really sucks compared to how awesome our wedding day was. I wonder if we'll ever have a day that nice again. Probably not."
I know we've discussed this before, but didn't we decide that a lot of the My Perfect Day shit was about, like, the immense social and familial pressure to give everyone (family, friends, etc.) the perfect wedding experience, and not necessarily because all our women friends are total bitches?
If that means coming to California, Oregon, or Washington, you should do it, essear. Just the other day you were saying you missed the place.
It's in California, which is appealing. But it's expensive, it's in an inconvenient place to travel to, and I don't know the person very well anymore. In other words, if I'm going to blow a lot of money on a quick trip to California, this is not how I would prefer to do it, but to decide based on that would make me feel like an ass, since it is a friend's wedding.
|| In 16 hours, I go back to work for the first time after four weeks off. How should I spend my last night of freedom? |>
159: Just say what you feel.
I haven't been invited to a wedding in five years. I think a lot of my friends either married young (and are now divorced, divorcing, or pretty stable) or are not the marrying type.
I will be attending another in late August. Applications for being my date are being accepted.
Come to think of it, I've been to a few parties in celebration of marriages in which the couple eloped or just had a few witnesses. Seems like a nice way to do it. The last one I went to was a potluck for a 40-something co-worker and her new husband, and the whole thing was really relaxed and happy, with none of the hoopla of a formal reception. A few people gave speeches about the couple, but mostly we just got really drunk and chitchatted.
164: Where is it? I'm not traveling, but if it's around here I'll go with you.
In other words, if I'm going to blow a lot of money on a quick trip to California, this is not how I would prefer to do it, but to decide based on that would make me feel like an ass, since it is a friend's wedding.
Please! Please, don't go! I am having a horrible time deciding which friends I haven't seen in years should be invited to my wedding (all of my instincts say "zero", but that would leave me with about five guests, none of whom are friends with each other).
So please don't make me believe that just because one is invited to a wedding, one feels compelled to actually go even though expense, distance, inconvenience, and lack of actual friendship all militate against going.
There's also the fact that it's a gay wedding (they did the official part during the interval when it was legal), which makes me feel like it's somehow a moral imperative to go and show support.
167: Maybe I'll take the "don't go, but send a really nice gift instead" route. That's what you would want these people to do, right?
169: If you come to California, you can have an unfogged meet up! And meet Ben!
but didn't we decide that a lot of the My Perfect Day shit was about, like, the immense social and familial pressure to give everyone (family, friends, etc.) the perfect wedding experience, and not necessarily because all our women friends are total bitches?
I don't remember that thread but I'm sure you're right. If I actually did have a real wedding (as opposed to the potluck thing you describe which sounds, in a word, perfect), I'd probably be awful about wanting everything to be perfect for everyone else.
156: Fortunately, everybody is too tired on their wedding day to recognize if it's the Most Perfect Day Ever.
essear, that route works. I've done that; people did that for mine. The year we got married there were four weddings within three months within the same group of friends. People had to pick and choose what they could afford to fly to.
167: There is no rule that says you have to invite everyone you were ever close with at one point in your life to your wedding. Invite people if you'd be happy to see them there (given the rest of the wedding planning), and let them decide whether the time & expense are doable.
an unfogged meet up
Speaking of meet ups, I'm gonna be in NYC July 4th-7th, but I've been feeling sort of sheepish about posting a NYC meet-up thread for MOI! So I figured I might just e-mail some of the people I already know and go from there. However, if some other NYCers are around (or if folks from elsewhere happen to be visiting), I suppose it could be something more official.
Chance to meet the recently-moved-to-Brooklyn eekbeat included!
The last wedding I went to, in 2004, was for my super-hot friend from college. She got engaged a few years before to a nice guy she'd been seeing. Her only regret, she informed me during the summer of 2002, was that she'd never slept with her crush of the previous five years. They'd been good friends all that time, and mutually attracted to each other, but they were somehow both always in relationships when the other was single, so it never worked out.
So one night, coming home from a trip, I get a call from her and she's on her way over with the impossible-crush boy. I'm all, OK. When she arrives, the boy is weirdly dressed-up and nervous. The friend pulls me aside and informs me that she wants me to sleep with him so that I can describe it to her, which would be the next best thing to sleeping with him herself. He has agreed to this plan and has come over for this purpose.
I felt put out and prostituted, but he was pretty much the cutest boy at Nerd U, and well, what are friends for? But I'm not going to do all the work myself. He is clearly too nervous that night, so we make plans for a day at the beach that weekend.
Day at the beach with another dude friend (one of my current bandmates), the affianced friend, and the impossible crush--it is terribly awkward and I am regretting agreeing to this inevitably tragic event. We go back to his place for a party. My affianced friend steals my car so that I am stranded there.
What follows is one of the most singularly unexciting events of my life. Takes hours to get going, is unspeakably awkward, and does not actually get around to sex. This is obviously for the best. Impossible crush drives me home and we eventually decide not to attempt it again.
So I am duty-bound to report my findings to the friend, yes? I do, in all the detail she could want. She is weirdly elated, freed from whatever fantasy she had that he was a great lover, though I insist that, no, it was probably the circumstances, which were totally unideal. She laughs triumphantly and goes on to report back to everyone we know that the impossible crush is the worst lay in the entire world, according to AWB. Not exactly what I said, but.
Anyhow, when she finally got married a few years ago, she sat me and my then-boyfriend (to whom I'd told this sad story) right next to the impossible crush at the reception. I don't think I've ever been so horrified to read a placecard in my life. We were not, as they say, on speaking terms.
Somehow, magically, he turned to me after about 15 minutes of dead silence and said something funny. I laughed. We got drunk and danced and had a lovely time.
He got married last week and my bandmate went. Apparently he asked after me and bears me no ill will. I still feel awful about it. But come on, what was I supposed to do? My friends are assholes.
157: I think that conversation was before my time here. I don't for a second think that all my women friends are bitches, but the alternative I-just-want-everyone-to-be-happy explanation doesn't ring true for me. (Because I just want everyone to be miserable. Not true! Not true!) It all just seems like the product of appallingly effective marketing. I would guess that there are some people on whom the marketing is more likely to be effective---the same people who were most fussed about prom and the like---but I would not for a second say that the marketing-susceptibility scale should range from not-bitch to bitch.
and not necessarily because all our women friends are total bitches?
I don't remember that thread either, but I wouldn't have speculated that the Perfect Day thing was due to all our women friends being total bitches. Y'all have different women friends, maybe.
Also, what Ham-Love said in 156.
only been to one wedding
Never been to a wedding, myself. My friends, they're not the marrying type; they're the stay in the basement and generate ever-more-random numbers type.
167: There is no rule that says you have to invite everyone you were ever close with at one point in your life to your wedding. Invite people if you'd be happy to see them there (given the rest of the wedding planning), and let them decide whether the time & expense are doable.
Obviously. But since I've never been invited to a friend's wedding, I just imagine everyone being highly surprised upon receiving an invitation, and can't really imagine anyone being surprised to not receive an invitation.
So the "better safe than sorry" option is to not invite anybody.
I'm very excited for our wedding, because I love being around all the family and friends and I like boisterous events and weddings in general. And all our plans just sound like so much fun.
What I am not stoked for is the wedding registry. I seriously do not want stuff. I want to just put a link to a charity or two on the family webpage, and ask people to leave a donation in lieu of a gift.
Both my mom and Jammies mom are super skeptical of this plan. They say, "People want to buy other people something tangible. It's important. If you don't create a registry, you'll end up with a bunch of things you really don't want."
I say, times are a-changing. Material goods are no longer what breaks people's budgets; medical bills and daycare and college tuition are. It's dated to flood a new happy couple with tangible crap, even if etiquette hasn't caught up with Forward-Thinking Me yet.
176: Many, many weddings (I won't say all) are about the families as much as they are the bride and the groom. Which means it's very easy for many different people all acting in good faith to have a different idea of how the day is supposed to go. The wedding-industrial complex certainly helps shape expectations, but if parents and relatives have ideas about how the day is supposed to go down, that can be a source of stress if there are disagreements, without anyone having morphed into a Perfect Bitch.
179: Right, but you probably wouldn't think "Oh, I do not talk to this person every day. Why on earth would I be invited to a wedding? What an awful person. They must be from Mars." Neither will they.
Plus, even people who you do talk to often might not be able to make it if significant travel is involved.
182: Heebie, ask people to contribute to a college fund for Hawaiian Punch!
(Though I'd say that if medical bills, daycare and college tuition are breaking people's budgets, they're probably not flush with the material goods either.)
182: We made a registry on the advice of my mother and most everyone ignored it and gave us money instead. I've seen a lot more of the donation-to-charity registry lately, especially among friends who are marrying after having been well-established in their careers. It's not like most of us are setting up households for the first time.
ask people to contribute to a college fund for Hawaiian Punch!
I'd be happy to put this as another option, next to charities, on the webpage. Would this satisfy people's urge to contribute something tangible, though?
185: Oh good, I'm glad to hear that. Seriously, our house is packed to the gills. I don't want china, or magazine racks, and maybe Jammies would like some powertools but not enough of them to flesh out a registry.
I'd like to make a donation to send Hawaiian Punch to the school of hard knocks.
I seriously do not want stuff
If you could score a pyrex measuring cup, a mortar & pestle, or a pizza slicer you could pass them on to me. I'd even write a scathingly bitter comment against a target of your choice! They will be humiliated and I could grind my own curry. Think about it.
Would this satisfy people's urge to contribute something tangible, though?
Well, I don't know about Aunt Edna, but I would certainly think so. There's the possibility that some people might feel that contributing a mere 50 bucks is useless, but if you made it quite clear that this is an important and hugely appreciated thing on your and Jammies' part, I don't see why not. I guess there's a question of whether you'd just be asking for money (which would go to the college fund), or whether you can actually set up a pool -- even via PayPal? -- which is designated to be for the college fund. The latter would probably make people feel more like they've done something.
I think you'll find that it's now call Hard Knocks University, Walt.
189: Foolishmortal, I have a pyrex measuring cup to spare, and maybe even a pizza slicer (my mom's house, gradually being dismantled). The mortar and pestle I want.
I don't think you could grind your own curry with a pizza slicer, but I'd welcome being shown wrong.
You can get a decent mortar and pestle at Ikea cheaply, if there's one nearby. (Also, I noticed that they tend to end up in thrift stores - you're either the sort of person who uses a mortar and pestle, or you're not, and it's hard to know before you buy).
I don't think you could grind your own curry with a pizza slicer
Surely you could slice the fenugreek and cumin seeds and etcetera into ever-smaller slivers, until finally it would approximate a powder. It would take a long time, however, and I agree that one would be hard put to honestly describe such practice as "grinding" one's own curry.
You could use the butt end of the pizza slicer.
either the sort of person who uses a mortar and pestle, or you're not
I do love me some pestling: it makes me feel like an alchemist.
195: sounds like a good way to cut your fingers up.
You could use the butt end of the pizza slicer.
No, the butt end is the mortar.
sounds like a good way to cut your fingers up.
You have a funny way of using a pizza slicer.
I was imagining holding the spice bits in place so as to slice them in slivers.
If you wanted to just run the slicer amok over them, sure, you could do that, but they'd go flying everywhere.
198: The butt end is the mortar?
197: FM, maybe you could find yourself an appropriately shaped rock. It's really the mortar that's the problem.
201.2: Surely he could find a rock for that too, and get started making a deep groove in the rock over time with the pestle. It would be a veldt mortar & pestle.
202: Alright, alright, I thought you might be after something like that, but it seemed far too lame for you, so I was pretending not to hear it, okay?
I wore black to a wedding once. It turned out badly.
but it seemed far too lame for you
New here, then.
183: Yes, absolutely; my family is about as lovely as it is possible to be, and they were still a source of wedding stress. (Hi Mom!)
But I think we may be talking about different things. There's wanting everything to go smoothly, so that everyone in the family enjoys themselves and feels that the proprieties have been observed, whatever each considers the proprieties to be; this is what I gather you're talking about. Perfectly normal, definitely stressful. And then there's internalizing the message that getting the tiniest details wrong (for arbitrary values of wrong) says something damning about you as a couple, something that you must not allow to be said. This is what I think of as the Perfect Day business; it's obviously incredibly stressful in itself, it often brings out latent money issues for the couple in emotionally rotten ways, and the pity is that it's just not necessary. But again, it's totally independent of anyone's being a bitch. Nice people buy into stress-creating and destructive ways of thinking all the time; it's just not usually so public.
OT: So Maureen Dowd's column today is terrible in her characteristic way. Can someone point me to other good examples of her interpreting current events through the filter of some fantasy narrative she projects onto them? (I am especially looking for examples of Dowdean fantasy narratives that, like today's, involve characters that embody stock psycho-sexual stereotypes. I want to write something about this and need good data.)
I just had occasion to use my mortar and pestle, foolishmortal, and recalling your description of feeling like an alchemist made it more fun. (Not that crushing cardamom is a particularly arduous task, and mm, chana masala will soon be mine).
182: Travelers Joy dot com is good for giving people specific-sounding pretexts for giving you money -- in this case for a honeymoon, though you can write any damn thing. They take a cut of 7 percent or so; if you were enterprising, you could probably rig something similar with paypal.
Some of this thread sure isn't making me regret our decision to just call our folks the evening before and tell them we were going to a j.o.p the next day.
if you don't have a M&P those cheap blade coffee grinders really do a pretty good job. Better job than they do on coffee. And everyone seems to have one already.
212: Dood, foolishmortal doesn't even have a measuring cup, and is apparently annoyed that he has to cut his pizza with a regular knife. Who knows what the coffee-grinding situation is.
They prefer guests to wear black.
An obnoxious request and to be ignored.
(Though I'd say that if medical bills, daycare and college tuition are breaking people's budgets, they're probably not flush with the material goods either.)
I don't know from daycare, but 4 weddings a year x $100 present per wedding is nothing compared to an unexpected medical bill or a semester of college, innit?
208: Man, I just read the first graf and immediately closed the tab. Too moist for me.
Tuition is quite reasonable at Hard Knocks University.
Wow Walt, that might be the wrongest thing you've ever commented here.
Whatever the pros and cons of spending some time in the school of hard knocks, some of those knocks are bloody expensive. Just often (not always) not cash in hand.
215: I read Heebie's 182.last the other way around: people want to give tangible goods because they suppose that's what the couple is in material need of. Heebie suggests that no, if the couple is in need, it's for something a great deal more substantial than a set of dishes, so the $100 wedding gift is not helpful or needed.
I just figured that if you're breaking the bank to pay medical bills, you might be scrimping on mortar & pestle, coffee-grinder, and pizza slicer.
217: Yes, but what sort of job might my child get when she graduates? What's the average 4 year graduation rate? Do professors teach the classes or is it all TAs? What % of students live on campus? Is the social life all about drinking there? Would you call it a party school?
208: There's this Clinton/Obama classic:
As I sit across from Barack Obama in his Senate office, I feel like Ingrid Bergman in ''The Bells of St. Mary's,'' when she plays a nun who teaches a schoolboy who's being bullied how to box.
... she seized the chance to play Godzilla stomping on Obambi.
... If Hillary is in touch with her masculine side, Barry is in touch with his feminine side.
Who knows what the coffee-grinding situation is.
I eschew blade-ground coffee; the friction burns the beans. I use the same device to make my coffee that I would to dispose of the evidence of avenging Hamilton's death.
219: Oooooh, got it. My misread.
222: Wait, I'm going to die in a way that calls for vengeance?
And is the neighborhood around campus safe?
224: That's conditional, not future tense. You may die in a way that calls for vengeance.
I think Walt was being facetious, soup.
218: I'm not comfortable with the idea that my comments here would be evaluated along the lines of "right" or "wrong". I can't perform under these circumstances.
227/218
yeah, i shoudn't comment when I'm not really paying attention. Last minute rewriting of a job talk, and I shouldn't really be here at all. But of course it's a good way to avoid editing.
I'm glad to find out the wrongest thing I've ever posted here, though.
I'm totally waiting to hear that foolishmortal wants a pizza slicer because a regular knife bruises the cheese.
Surely he could find a rock for that too, and get started making a deep groove in the rock over time with the pestle.
Indeed he could. He'd have to be careful, though; eventually the groove would wear right through.
Wow, Do the Right Thing is 20 years old.
When my mom and sister were visiting me once, they brought a frozen pizza from Trader Joe's and needed a pizza slicer to cut it. My mom noticed that I had a refrigerator magnet in the form of a pizza slicer with a magnet glued to it (left by a previous tenant, apparently), which seemed perfect, so she took it off the refrigerator and began slicing the pizza with it. She got about one slice in before the wheel broke off. Turns out it was just intended to be a magnet. Luckily, I also had knives.
233: Exactly what I was thinking of.
234: In honor, we should all go and throw a chair through the window of a pizza place.
210: They take a cut of 7 percent or so
!!!
233.--Another option. We used to visit the Miwok village on the way to Strawberry Lake every summer, and I used to have nightmares about eating acorn flour that hadn't been properly prepared and was thus poisonous.
240: That's Indian Grinding Rock State Park in CA, yes? I loved going there when I was little.
Seeing Do the Right Thing in a packed movie theater when it first came out was a memorable experience. The entire audience remained seated, didn't move or say a word, through the entirety of the final credits -- none of the usual getting up and shuffling your stuff around and walking out. People kind of wandered in very orderly fashion out of the theater into the night without saying much of anything.
Heebie,
What you want to do is register someplace that has an incredibly generous return policy. BB&B will (or would five years ago) turn anything that people buy you back into cash which can then be applied to whatever worthy charity or investment scam you'd like. I'm sure there are other retail places that practice soothing similarly foolish and useful.
At first registering was incredibly stressful for us, but then we relaxed into it and ... you may think that your house is full of stuff, but is that stuff nice enough? There are many categories of stuff that are all kinds of pleasant and handy. To pick just one example: in a fit of "let's find three more random things to put on this damned registry so that people feel they have some choices in shit to give us" we zapped a Sangria set (pitcher and six tulip shaped glasses) and someone bought the thing for us. We've used is for sangria I think a total of four times, but the pitcher is a very nice water pitcher and the glasses are frequently used for Belgian-type beer.
In sum, having other people buy nice things for you is not all-together unpleasant.
I saw Natural Born Killers at a midnight show right after it came out. It was me, and a bunch of high-fiving guys excited for a night of senseless violence. When we came out, they all looked like they'd been hit over the head by a 2-by-4.
'tis true, if I had to make a wedding registry, I'd look to upgrade, and I'd be pretty pragmatic about it. I'd like some sisal rugs! I'd like, uh, a gift certificate for reupholstering some furniture, and getting some refinished! (Can you do that via gift registry?) So no, there'd be no soup tureen or cake platter, but I think there are some more creative ways to think about what you actually might like, if you think in terms of replacing or upgrading what you already have.
246: It'd be for the porch or other passing-zone types of places. Not for in front of the fireplace.
246 is right. 247 doesn't take into account how right 246 is.
When a friend got married, I learned that the place she registered gave then something like 15% off any gifts remaining on the registry unpurchased after the Big Day. Thereafter, I vowed to never buy off a registry again and instead give a cash equivalent -- they can get the soup tureen if they really wanted it AND had a few bucks leftover to buy soup. It's unfortunate that etiquette rules allow you to specifically ask for the Crate 'N' Barrel cheese slicer but prohibit you from requesting cash. Every newlywed I've ever know would have been better off with cash.
ari apparently spends a lot of time lying naked on his porch.
Not as much as I'd like, really, because of the damn sisal rug out there.
I think I prefer much more forthright commentary.
I once overheard a conversation among three people that went something like this:
A: How was your summer?
B: It was great. [various activities described]. And I got married.
A: You got married?
C [interrupting, somewhat enthusiastically]: Yeah, you can tell she's tired from all the sex.
I guess everyone already knows whether she wants fancy silverware and china, but are you suuure? you'll never buy it for yourself because it seems silly, but it can actually be nice to have. like this tasteful craftsman pattern? or they can buy mismatched sets for you on ebay? monogrammed towels? antique linens? I was actually pretty psyched to register for my wedding.
243: Add Crate and Barrel to the list. Man it was nice to walk in there with box after box of things we felt stupid for putting on the registry and walk out with $700 cash.
That said: I love my wedding china from my first wedding (it's got jagulars!) and have held onto my half of it despite the fraught thing. I think if my wife ever has a sit-down with my ex-wife, the main thing they will have in common is a conspiracy to offload it from our house to hers.
I didn't have a wedding list, which is probably why I still cut my pizza with scissors. But I was happy to give suggestions and we got plenty of stuff that I was really pleased to get, plus a load of habitat vouchers.
I am really not a fan of the whole This Is How A Wedding Is To Be Done thing.
255: I like how you went for the mexican design.
We didn't get any wedding presents, I don't think. Actually, I lie, one friend bought us a very nice small tea set, and my wife's parents bought us some pans. But I think that was it. We didn't ask for any.
No, they're just holding their thumb between their second and third finger. They don't really have my nose.
Sex is indeed tiring.
Now imagine being 40 with small children.
I kinda like the wedding registry so far. All of our best gifts and worst gifts have not been on it, but all of those gifts in the middle there have been from the registry. It's like lithium for gift givers.
"What do Jagulars do?" asked Piglet, hoping that they wouldn't.
"They hide in the patterns of your wedding registry and then drop on you as you are dividing your possessions. Later, they leap upon you from the ground as a source of simmering aesthetic resentment in your second merged-possessions marriage." said Pooh. "Christopher Robin told me."
The idea of an adult only having been to one or two weddings ever, or fewer, sounds bizarre to me. (Re: 159, I'm not judging or anything, I'm just saying it sounds weird.) I've been to... let's see here... at least 10. Three aunts/uncles, five cousins all of which were second cousins or more distant, one teacher and one cousin-in-spirit - that is, child of good friends of my parents.
I've got another wedding coming up in two weeks, though. Should be fun. It's also a viable Modern Love topic: the couple met through World of Warcraft.
re: 265
I think I've only been to three or four. Very few of my friends are married, and of those who have, a couple of have had very small family-only weddings and then just had a big party for all their friends another time.
I too have a friend who is married to a woman he met through World of Warcraft.
I posted an update!
I posted a comment!
Sex is indeed tiring.
Now imagine being 40 with small children.
On first glance I read apo's response as "being with 40 small children". Which would be tiring, I'm sure, but it's not fun to imagine.
205 cracks me up. Also, it confirms something I thought yesterday: that no one in NYC would blink at wearing black to a wedding.
I've been to a lot of weddings and I've seen a number of invitations that explicitly request that there be no gifts or that there be donations to a specific charity in lieu of gifts. I think it would be entirely reasonable to request donations to a college fund or to request hand-written cards instead of gifts: cheap, much more meaningful, much easier to store and likely to contain cash.
I had friends who did that "donate money to our honeymoon" or whatever, since they had no material goods. It worked well, I think. We, on the other hand, need all (well, some) of that traditional crap. We're only just moving in together!
Also, in re: the "people will give you crap you don't want": we had an engagement party, and because we didn't want people to give us gifts at the engagement party, we didn't register for any. The result? Well, heebie, I think you should ask yourself exactly how many ugly, useless wooden cheese boards and tacky cut glass vases you need, really.
Wedding presents make a lot more sense when the couple is young and has never set up a household as an adult.
Many years ago I ran into my church's elderly organist. She was buying a hammer, and explained that she always gave hammers as wedding presents because it was something useful that most young couples hadn't quite gotten around to buying yet. She attended maybe 15-20 weddings a year, and a hammer was probably what she could afford. I always thought it was weird, and kind of neat, that she had found a small useful gift to mark her goodwill to the newlyweds of her community.
At this stage in my life I own two hammers.
My cousin and his fiancƩe made a series of hilarious videos imitating various famous commercials pleading with their guests to donate money toward a refrigerator rather than giving gifts. They put a lot of effort into it. I donated some money. But I can see why they did it; you have to make it really clear that no, you don't want other gifts please. And making it clear what the money was for was good, too.
she always gave hammers as wedding presents because it was something useful that most young couples hadn't quite gotten around to buying yet.saved on divorce bills later.
A friend of mine always gave sex manuals. She said they were always very well received.
At this stage in my life I own two hammers.
But you need two hammers: one for the morning and one for the evening. All over this land.
Obviously the black hammer is for evenings.
265: Before civil partnership became law, I'd been to five weddings, one when I was a kid (friends of my parents) and two of which were non-legal committment ceremonies: since civil partnership became law (December 2005), I've been to three weddings, all of which were couples who'd been together for at least ten years. So, not counting the one I went to as a kid, as an adult I was invited to four weddings in 20 years, half of which weren't legal: in the past four years I've been invited to three, all civil partnerships. My friends used to have a much lower wedding rate before they had the legal option...
A friend of mine always gave sex manuals.
A friend gave us one -- we thought it was terribly funny, consisting mostly of positions that were anatomically impossible for anyone not a competitive gymnast. OTOH, it had at least one idea that neither James or I would ever have thought of, and which has proved useful and amusing on many occasions.
"people will give you crap you don't want"
Peopleplatters. Ours says "Mazltov!" up top, and commemorates the date of our engagement party.
A combination of 278 and 279 would be an enviable addition to any newlywed's household inventory.
people will give you crap you don't want
The worst is crap you don't want that was clearly expensive. Yes, I'm looking at you, swirly iridescent purple and yellow Wedgwood vase with polka dots.
279: oh, wow. Okay, nothing that bad.
I've been to many a wedding as both a child and an adult, and let's not count the ones I've been in. I love my friends dearly and am grateful that they want to include me, but I really hate being a bridesmaid. I am not good at this job!
I'd be all for the "practical gift" approach. First aid kit! Pipe wrench! Space blanket! Insect repellent! Soldering iron! Crash helmet!
The newlyweds of this world will never be free until the last umbrella stand has been choked with the last porcelain ramekin.
First aid kit! Pipe wrench! Space blanket! Insect repellent! Soldering iron! Crash helmet!
Video projector!
(Sigh.)
281: I once gave a couple a platter that, on reflection, they probably didn't want (I've never seen it again). And on more mature reflection, I'm embarrassed by it: it wasn't quite as ugly as 279, but it was tacky. The last wedding I went to I gave t hem an afternoon at a Taste festival.
I was a bridesmaid for both my sisters. At one of their weddings, I utterly disgraced myself by bawling all the way through the ceremony.
284: we were very excited to receive our (stackable!) porcelain ramekins, I'll have you know.
We didn't register for a fondue set, because Blume already has one, even though I really, really wanted to.
Antibiotics! Ammunition! Composting toilet!
Not because I want one (or, for that matter, two), mind you. I just find them hilarious, especially as gifts.
I used to give newlyweds the collected Sherlock Holmes stories, in the theory that every household needed them. I was talked out of continuing that trend.
I'd never even heard the word ramekin until Roberta and I moved in together, but ours get more use than I ever could have imagined.
Whenever I move, I hold a "pounding," which is a Southern-style housewarming where everyone brings you a pound of something they think you might need--sugar, flour, rice, etc.
I've gotten a pound of straws (OMGsomanyfuckingstraws), a pound of lube and condoms, a mix CD with 16 songs on it, a book of poetry by Ezra Pound, etc.
I like 291.
Ramekins are remarkably useful. I spent the first five years of my marriage being annoyed about once a week that we didn't have any, and then finally going and buying myself a bunch, and we do use them all the time. (For people going ???, a ramekin is a little round straight-sided ceramic dish, of about a half-cup capacity or a little more. Trust me, if you had them and you cook at all, you'd use them all the time.)
a mix CD with 16 songs on it
Techno, so it would be 16 OONTZses?
So, I don't know that I'd buy myself a whole silver set, but I have parts of one that my mother mangled. The only problem with having people buy me bits of it off of ebay is that I need to get my grandmother's monogram put on it to match.
I agree that those craftsman knives are lovely, alameida.
I want someone to come up with software that allows you to pick out a few of the things that you like toward a registry. You could then specify that your budget is $50 or whatever, and if enough other people put money toward that gift, it would be bought. So, you'd put $50 toward the $800 table or whatever, but if nobody else wanted to pony up for that, the money would go to towels or something.
I don't quite know the business model yet. I suppose that the wedding sites could charge the stores as well as the purchasers.
I fucking love ramekins. Mine are super-tiny though, so when I make creme brulƩe, I end up with like eight teensy dishes of it instead of two regular servings.
I have parts of one that my mother mangled.
MOMMY SMASH!!!
a ramekin is a little round straight-sided ceramic dish, of about a half-cup capacity
Oh, no, you need them in a range of sizes, 2" salt dish by the stove, 3" ones to hold the fresh sage you just plucked from the garden, a whole set of 5" ones to bake individual-sized casseroles in, and...
Oh, god. I think I'm swipple.
295: funk, so there's more bounce to the ounce.
a "pounding," which is a Southern-style housewarming
hospitality's really something down there, isn't it?
she always gave hammers as wedding presents because it was something useful that most young couples hadn't quite gotten around to buying yet
My step-grandmother gave me a mini-stepladder as a housewarming present and it has been the most useful gift I've ever gotten, bar none. Every time I use it I think of her thoughtfulness.
I remain surprised at how many adults I know don't own proper flashlights, but maybe that's because I grew up in a place where the power was always going out.
284: You have to be a little careful about that: I'm semi-regularly given variations on the utility toolkit with some sort of handle dealy that a bunch of different tips fit on (sometimes more than one handle dealy with a vast selection of tips). These things are inevitably crap. Never give tools to someone who likes to work with tools, whether it's carpentry, metalwork, automobiles, or cooking. Unless you are as skilled and knowledgeable as the person you are buying for, and you know the particulars of their interests and situation, you're better off with giving them a slanket.
The sole exception to this rule is if the person in question is building a wooden boat, in which case you case buy them as many 3 inch C-clamps as you can afford. There has never in the history of civilization been a wooden boat builder with too many 3 inch C-clamps.
Ramekins are awesome. Rah and I were discussing them just the other day, actually. When I was a teenage waiter at a country club and someone asked for dressing on the side, something I'd never before encountered, I asked what she meant and she said, "You know, in a ramekin." That was the first time I'd heard that word and I confess that I marveled at its obvious usefulness once I saw one.
Very first wedding I went to of a high-school peer was for a guy who had a spot waiting in a very successful family business. None of us knew the bride from Eve, and our job descriptions ranged from bum to impoverished student, so we pooled our dough and got a pretty nice tool set. We were very pleased with ourselves. Never got a thank you and later heard secondhand that it was considered "insulting". I for one, never heard from/spoke to the guy again.
303.last: you should also give that person your deepest sympathy, and maybe coupons for psychiatric care.
you can register at the replacements sites! I'm kind of obsessed with the wedgwood georgia historical plates that my grandmother had.* they have all kinds of funny state and university plates.
*because I'm a procedural liberal type unmoved by the horrors of slavery. y'know, like ari.
302: My default gift for people I don't know but feel obligated to give stuff to is a Mag-Lite. With batteries, because people who give presents that require batteries but don't give batteries as well should be beaten. Battered, perhaps.
The difference between a Mag-Lite and those cheapo plastic flashlights is incredible. Plus if you get one of the larger sizes it doubles as a handy thing for bashing people over the head, which doesn't come up all that often, but when it does you really want something that's not going to break.
304: It's funny, they're wildly useful and cheap, and still something that plenty of people who would use them don't own because they don't really know they exist. I kind of wonder what else is in that category that I don't know about yet.
a "pounding," which is a Southern-style housewarming
Some fruit hangs so low, it requires excavation equipment and rope ladders.
I meant to say, cute dress, heebie!
and look, they have texas...
Mom doesn't understand how garbage disposals operate and that it's not a good idea to let silver sppons go down them.
OT Mini ASK THE MINESHAFT
I fell flat on my face while playing softball on Saturday. The good news is that I reached my hand out and got 3rd base before anyone got me out. The bad news is that the skin under my right eye is sort of puffy and there is a big scab on my right cheek.
Yesterday, I went out to church and people who had not been at the game (but do know what I look like) studiously avoided saying anything. My BF told me that one guy kept barely looking at me and then him--in a sort of incriminating way. Since nobody even says anything, I don't even get to tell my story.
I have a seminar on legislative advocacy cum networking to go to this week, and I'm wondering whether I should make an effort to cover it up with makeup.
Since nobody even says anything, I don't even get to tell my story.
If anybody asks what happened, you should reply, "I'm in love! Isn't it wonderful?"
296.1
As pretty as silver is, we decided that neither of us really enjoys polishing silver, and so went with something stainless steel but stylish instead. It was one of the items that no one got for us, so we traded in for it. Back you go, random assortment of fancy towels!
wooden boat builder
How do you make a keel? Lots of little pieces of lead? Poured keel? Backyard lead melting seems problematic...
In that case, I'd just volunteer the info.
"How are you doing?"
"Totally ate it during softball this weekend, but otherwise good. You?"
That one time I bashed my head open at a meetup was two days before I started my spring semester teaching. I had a giant wound up in the hairline and a big swollen bruise. So I started each class by telling the story of how I got the hiccups and got dizzy and didn't have health insurance, etc., but would really rather they tell people I got in a barfight so as to preserve my cred. It's all you can do. If you don't say something, an obvious wound can put a chill in the air.
I'm wondering whether I should make an effort to cover it up with makeup.
No. You will fail and it will look like you are ashamed and trying to hide something horrible. Wear it with pride, make the occasional self-deprecating remark about how you got it, and don't worry too much. If anyone asks about it just say "you should see the other guy." There's no shortage of humorous mileage you can get out of it, and joking makes friends faster than just about anything else.
Also, I bruise like a peach (as Bave's ex once put it), so I am constantly explaining shockingly obvious wounds. Right now there is a series of ugly bruises along my left forearm that are real conversation-starters.
312
I have a seminar on legislative advocacy cum networking to go to this week, and I'm wondering whether I should make an effort to cover it up with makeup.
If you can really cover it up to the point of complete undetectability, go for it. This depends on the severity of the injury, the makeup at your disposal and your skill with makeup.
If you can't hide it completely, I'd say you should just pretty yourself up as you normally would and be prepared to frequently give a lot of explanations for it. Just say "I slid wrong playing softball, but at least I was safe" or something like that whenever peoples' eyes linger on your face, or carefully avoid your face.
315: You make a deal with someone who works at a tire place to collect the little weights. When the time comes to cast the keel you build a mold (wood works, but most people prefer iron), melt the weights in a large steel container, scooping the steel pieces off as they float to the top (the little steel bits that hold the wheel weights on), and pour into the mold. Melting and casting lead is really easy, because the melting point is so low. I haven't done anything larger than a fishing weight myself, but home casting of lead keels is a pretty well established technique.
Here's someone doing a pretty sophisticated backyard keel casting.
A customized name tag along the lines of Bostinian "Softball Victim" Girl, might also act as conversation starters/avoiders.
re: 318
One of the women I do martial arts with said that she had to constantly explain the bruises to people. She was pretty skinny/frail looking too so I think the combination of bruising easily with that frame made it look dramatic.
I don't, quite the opposite, I've been kicked full in the face and not had a mark on me, but I've almost constantly got a few little bruises on my forearms and elbows. Right now I have quite a few fairly noticeable ones. On a man those go unremarked, on women, people talk.
At least you didn't really fall down the stairs, BG....
Just wear your softball uniform nonstop. If your team doesn't have uniforms, go get one somewhere. And smear your face with dust.
OK, OK, maybe ramekins are all right after all. But Mag Lites are definitely a good gift to give. Except for AWB, who, it sounds like, could really do with some sort of head protection.
I had a weird accident with a commercial-size plastic wrap dispenser in college that left me with shallow, but ragged and very visible, cuts right across both wrists. It was really embarrassing -- I spent a week telling the story at every opportunity, just to make sure people knew I hadn't tried to off myself.
The sole exception to this rule is if the person in question is building a wooden boat
Okay, I added a picture to the Flickr pool.
309: something that plenty of people who would use them don't own because they don't really know they exist. I kind of wonder what else is in that category that I don't know about yet.
Immersion blender. Though I imagine you know about that. Still, it seems like a lot of people don't realize just how happy they'd be if they had one of those things. At least, if they like to make soup.
I had a weird accident with a commercial-size plastic wrap dispenser
Man, those things can be surprisingly dangerous. Part of the standard training I gave newbies at the restaurant I worked for and later at the bakery was to take a box of that, push it off the counter, and say, "See, it didn't break. So there's no use trying to catch it if you accidentally pull it off the counter while you're trying to extract some wrap. Seriously. Don't do it. It'll fuck you up."
Nowadays they have ones with a sort of slide cutter thing that are much safer than the old school jagged metal cutting edge ones.
Never give tools to someone who likes to work with tools, whether it's carpentry, metalwork, automobiles, or cooking. Unless you are as skilled and knowledgeable as the person you are buying for, and you know the particulars of their interests and situation, you're better off with giving them a slanket.
Yep.
329: that doesn't look like somebody hit you, unless it was somebody wielding a bunch of dirt with small rocks in it.
Yes, I'm looking at you, swirly iridescent purple and yellow Wedgwood vase with polka dots.
Wedgwood? How can this even be?
334: Her boyfriend is sneaky like that.
333: Well, actually, a slanket it a terrible gift unless you know for sure that they're horribly tacky. A gift certificate is better.
That's with the dirt still on. Now there's a scab. There's a little swelling below my eye, but not much.
legislative advocacy cum networking
Some fruit hangs so low, it requires excavation equipment and rope ladders.
Indeed.
339: Too embarrassed to sign your name?
To merge the questions, I recommend you wear black, BG, and find some opportunity to stare off into space then say, "I've got a lot on my mind since the... accident this weekend."
I am resolutely ignoring the innuendo, because I have to say that the party AWB described, called a pounding, sounds like an ideal housewarming.
343: Call it a kilogramming instead.
I am resolutely ignoring the innuendo
You do what you have to do, Megan. Just remember that if you need a good pounding, you should get a native southerner.
342: I'm unclear on which question is being merged with the "what to wear" question.
294: OMG, people actuallyuse ramekins? *looks at you funny* Unless I were in the habit of making creme brulee, which I'm not, I can't think what I'd use them for.
(Don't get me wrong: I love creme brulee. But I love it best with the proper burnt-sugar top, and I can't be bothered getting a mini-flamethrower JUST for creme brulee. So I order it in restaurants whenever I see it.)
I have the torch. I think it was a Christmas gift from my parents. I actually use it quite a lot, not just for sugar, but also to finish burning the skins off roasted peppers where they've cooked unevenly.
I use my ramekins to set out little dishes. Olives, pickles, tapenades. Love 'em.
but also to finish burning the skins off roasted peppers where they've cooked unevenly.
That is sheer genius. Why has it never occurred to me? (We don't have a salamander at the moment, but they come and go.)
My mom gives wedding baskets as wedding presents. Mostly for children of friends, etc., many of whom she knows from when we lived on the Reservation, so there isn't much explanation needed. Sometimes for others, in which case she'll explain a bit. For close relatives such as nieces she'll do something more elaborate, often in collaboration with her sisters.
349: I bet if you bought some they'd be indispensable in a month. Small amounts of leftovers -- like, you chopped too much of something and will use it tomorrow. Organizing ingredients while you're cooking. Serving nuts or similar little finger food. Anything baked or casserole-ish that you want to make in serving sizes.
This all sounds kind of precious as I say it, but they really do come in handy all the time.
Our ramekins get a lot of use as dishes for treats, usually milk or yogurt, for spoiled cats.
349: My thought exactly, only I'd never encountered the name until this thread. "Little bowl" has always worked for me when I need to describe those, um, little bowls. No doubt there is some specialized swipple name for "medium sized bowl," "normal sized bowl," and "big bowl" but I'm going to stick with my working class roots and just go with "bowl" and the appropriate size descriptor.
Also anything ending in -kins that isn't either a pet name for someone or an AD&D monster class is automatically suspect.
352: I generally just do them whole on top of the gas range so I can turn them and they don't leak everywhere, but yeah, those little bits that don't burn are frustrating unless you've got a torch. You can't really do the whole pepper that way very well, though, as it takes forever and never gets quite hot enough to cook the flesh.
Mannikins?
usually milk or yogurt, for spoiled cats.
FEEDING YOUR ADULT CAT LACTOSE SURE WILL SPOIL IT!!!
Cereal bowl, soup bowl, noodle bowl, mixing bowl.
356: But they're not bowl-shaped -- they have straight sides.
353: I think there's some explanation needed. What are wedding baskets?
Dammit, pwned by one minute, but at least I have a link.
And 356: See if I buy you a pipkin when you get married.
Ramekins are then ... containers. Don't y'all have little bowls for this anyway? I'm a mismatching type of person: little handmade bowl to put herbs in, little handmade bowl to put garlic in, and so on.
But I thought ramekins were chiefly for making mini-casseroles, which, you know, if you're not really into casseroles, you can do without 'em. Still, having a couple of ramekin-like things around expands the possibilities. It just may not have occurred to you before to make a couple of miniature layered casseroles of sliced tomatoes, sliced zucchini, red onion slices, few chopped black olives, couple of fresh basil leaves, intersprinkled with fresh parmesan ... and bake. So they are good for that.
356.2: This might explain certain religious traditions.
Is somebody in here talking shit about Mandy Patinkin?
358: It's never very much, and they seem to have no problems digesting it. Particularly Maçka, she's a real milk products fan
Cereal bowl, soup bowl, noodle bowl, mixing bowl.
I just wanted to repeat this.
Anyone speakin' unkindly of our kin can say it agin' to Pappy's squirrel gun.
Ramekins are then ... containers.
Yes parsimon, ramekins are indeed containers. But of a particular sort.
367: Or Michelle Malkin. Oh wait, she probably is her own D&D monster class.
Also, anybody who doesn't like my merkin can just stay the hell away from my crotch.
365: Sure. The point is that small ovensafe ceramic containers are very useful, not that there's anything magic about calling them ramekins. If you've got bowls that fill that niche for you, more power to you.
I can't believe I was first to merkin.
This seems on topic: I need a spice rack. Perusal of available options reveals that they are mostly unsatisfactory. I want the spice containers to be glass or some other nonreactive substance, but with plastic or metal tops so that they will screw on tightly. The jar mouths should be wide enough to permit the easy insertion of a teaspoon.
Also, and for heaven's sakes, the lids should not be clear! I want a top with a label I can write on so that I can identify my spices by name; I don't want to try to determine from visual clues what variety of brown powder I am looking at.
Finally, the rack should not be a bulky wooden turny-thing, should not occupy an entire drawer, should not be hideous, and should cost under $60 maximum.
Mineshaft, please advise.
371: Well, Blume, my point was that if you're using ramekins as containers for olives, tapenades, pickles, herbs, yogurt for the cats, and things you've chopped up preparatory to cooking, then they don't need to be the particular sorts of containers (with straight sides) that they are, and you don't need ramekins for these purposes. You follow?
You follow?
Sometimes. Sometimes I just wonder.
378: I can't help on the rack thing, but Ikea sells short, fat, wide mouthed spice jars with metal lids for very little money. We bought a couple cartons of them and have a spice-devoted cupboard.
379: And yet the size and shape does have its virtues, even if you're not putting them in the oven. The size is smaller than most bowls -- you have bowls that small, but I don't see them for sale often. Having straight sides means both that they take up less space in the refrigerator than a rounded bowl for a given amount of volume, and that they stack with stuff in them. So, you know, you can get by without ramekins, but finding them useful isn't purely irrational.
Ramekins are the best! I bought them ages and ages ago to make individual soufflƩs, but now use them all the time for dipping sauces, olives, etc.
The ramekins are not being used according to their entelechy.
jms, you can get jars & lids of the sort you're after separately from their support, relatively cheaply, so at a last resort if you find a rack design you like with jars you don't you can probably just swap them out.
I also find them less precious than little bowls. Like, oh hey here's some olives and a thing to put the pits in, whatever, rather than, ooh look I bought tiny little devoted olive bowls. Ramekins are both cute and multiply utilitarian.
379: No, parsi, it's absolutely the case that ramekins and only ramekins can be used for all the purposes you list. That much should be obvious, even to you.
jms, do you build stuff? This is totally the way to go if you do, especially because most spice racks I've seen for sale assume that you have about 16 spice jars, max. These look like the sort of jars you're describing, for a fairly reasonable price.
Also, yay ramekins.
Are ramekins the new stand mixers?
I had never heard of ramekins before this thread.
Are ramekins the new stand mixers?
Well, they cost about 1/200th what stand mixers cost. Otherwise, sure.
383: Oh, heck, I never said it was irrational; just that thinking they're the best thing for the job -- assuming the job doesn't involve cooking in them -- is wrong. I have some ramekins, and use them, sure. This is surely not a jihad against ramekins.
you have bowls that small, but I don't see them for sale often
This is probably the difference: I know a lot of people in the craft/ceramics business, so little bowls aren't hard to come by.
I make souffles in clay ashtrays molded by disadvantaged youths.
just that thinking they're the best thing for the job -- assuming the job doesn't involve cooking in them -- is wrong.
Good to know that's been authoritatively determined. I'll stop wanting to stack them now that I know it's not useful.
just that thinking they're the best thing for the job -- assuming the job doesn't involve cooking in them -- is wrong
They might actually be the best thing for the job even though having straight sides isn't necessary to perform the job.
359 is perfectly balanced on that razor's edge where I can't tell if it's self-mockery or mockery of my bowl-barbarianism. I see two types of bowls on that list, but I suspect others see more.
['crying bowl, crying bowl, masturbating bowl, crying bowl']
And now I'm off to get my ass stuffed with gauze. ciao!
I always assumed a ramekin was some sort of archaic word, like "firkin" or "flagon". Next people will be explaining how useful firkins are.
Now that we know what they are, the next step is to figure out how to pronounce them. Two syllables or three? Short a or long a?
391: Sir Kraab has a fairly amusing story about Crate & Barrell and, if I remember correctly, the wife of John Kenneth Galbraith. It may also involve ramekins, but then I may be conflating that story plus the fact that SK has some ramekins from C&B (although not the ones pictured in Sifu's link). Anyway, I'll let her tell it (I'm sure I'd mess it up) if she's around and feels like it (one of her hands is not working properly at the moment so typing is a bit of a chore for her).
400: click the little speaker dude!
(one of her hands is not working properly at the moment so typing is a bit of a chore for her).
Drunk and incapable, huh?
Sorry about the signifier/signified error in 4000/.
I grew up using what we called "custard cups," made by Pyrex out of clear glass, for all of the aforementioned ramekin uses.
Now I own both, and I use the ramekins more. Probably because Pyrex has re-shaped the glass cups, made them smaller, and tinted them green. Talk about CHANGEBAD.
ooh look I bought tiny little devoted olive bowls.
Are you kidding? These are great.
385, 388: The little glass jars from Spice Barn would indeed be perfect, but I'm not a handy person and building something functional and attractive to hold the jars is beyond my abilities.
The rack is crucial, since the problem right now is that I have a dozen or so tiny containers knocking around in my cupboard, hiding behind the flour and rolling onto the counter. Basically I'm trying to remedy my natural disorganizedness with the purchase of manufactured goods.
You know what I miss most about having roommates? Making tiny pots de creme chocolat for them and letting them discover them in the fridge. I used to be so pixie-ish about my cooking back then. It's much harder to delight and surprise myself, and I don't really like sweets anyway.
Next people will be explaining how useful firkins are.
Nor need you mind the serial ordeal
Of being watched from forty cellar holes
As if by eye pairs out of forty firkins.
-- Robert Frost, "Directive"
Wow, it sounds like I should start trying to room with more pixie-ish people.
Our deal was that they did all the cleaning and dishes in the apartment, and I'd make them anything they wanted to eat at any time of day or night, including packed lunches, treats, and catering of parties. It was worth it.
The thing linked in 406 looks like the setup for a Mediterranean version of mancala.
Pixies? Huh. I always thought it was elves who did all that stuff.
Next people will be explaining how useful firkins are.
Firkins are useful only if you drink beer. I wouldn't insult you by supposing such a thing.
414: From Wikipedia:
The pixies of Dartmoor are fond of music and dancing. These Pixies are said to be helpful to normal humans, sometimes helping needy widows and others with housework. They are often ill clothed or naked.
That's me!
416: I think you're going to need to do some housework for AWB up front before you can start demanding baked goods from her like that. She's not a troll, LB.
395: Yeah, sorry, LB. If stackability is important, sure, ramekins. As I said, I haven't found it hard to find little bowls at all, and pace AWB about the preciousness of acquiring little bowls, nah, you can pick these things up at yard sales and whatnot for 35 cents, or 10 cents, and you'd do that because they're useful, that's all.
Concerning the update to the post: Heebie's eyes are freaking me out.
419: Got it. Small bowls: cheap, practical, and readily available -- not precious at all. Ramekins: I suppose if you wanted to stack them or cook in them, but otherwise, why?
I believe we have to duel now. Ramekins at thirty paces?
On the spice rack question - I recently decided to go with the metal tins that have a magnet attached to the back. I then affixed them to the fridge (total heresy where spices are concerned - one should not keep them on a heat source), but you could very easily install a piece of metal on the inside of a cupboard door or the like and keep them there. The tins were about $2-3 apiece, but given that you can then fill them with bulk spices (if you trust your local bulk supplier) you can save a lot.
421: Ramekin versus small unique bowl at ten paces within a pit. Rules: you may not cook something in your 4-inch-wide ramekin, I may not put my small unique bowl on display for aesthetic purposes (or put it in the dishwasher).
422: Under what circumstances should one or should one not trust one's local bulk supplier? (This question is purely academic, as I am still carting around the same box of spices my mother bought me when I went away to college. Optimistic that I was going to do a lot of cooking, she was. I still haven't used that Cuisinart, but don't tell her that.)
426: What AWB said.
I think I'm becoming a bulk foods evangelist - good quality if you're at the right store (a rough indicator of if you are or not is - does the bulk aisle actually get used? If there are lots of people in it, swipple and DFH alike, it's probably a good sign) and so, so much cheaper! I filled up about 20 different tins of spices for less than $15. Plus, if you buy in small quantities and the supplier goes through them quickly as well they stay fresher (which I negate by then keeping them on the fridge and prematurely aging them with heat and light exposure, but I'm a philistine). Of course, it's also fun to order from Penzeys or the like and get the exotic stuff!
Every time I hear the word, I'm overtaken by the desire to blurt out "Ramekin Skywalker!"
Basically, when it comes to spices and good times, you can't go wrong!!!
368: Particularly MaƧka
MaƧka being the Greek cousin of my cat, MaÄka.
♪ They're cousins, identical cousins ♪
Basically, when it comes to spices and good times, you can't go wrong!!!
Yeah, I'm hugely nerdy. I realize this now. I'm going to go eat heavily spiced food now. And maybe think about working. Or at the very least commit to using fewer exclamation points.
431: It was a pseudonym to protect her privacy, Kraab!
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Okay, fess up. Which one of you designed this shirt?
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Or at the very least commit to using fewer exclamation points.
They're pretty strict around here about that.
What 428 said about bulk spices, and about bulk foods in general: if the bulk section is obviously heavily patronised, the supply will be fresher. There's nothing nerdy about seeking that out.
Spices, though: yeah, exposing them to heat and light is not the best idea, which is why most spice racks which occupy space on the countertop or whatever aren't ideal. It's a bummer to relegate your spices to a closed cabinet, but it's technically the best.
Cabinets are then . . . containers.
I've got, like, thirty goddamn foreskins.
I think mixing Greek and Latin roots is hottt.
I CAN GIVE YOU MY GROUP RATE DISCOUNT, GEORGE!
one of her hands is not working properly
I have a pinched ulnar nerve, which I'm trying not to aggravate.
Sir Kraab has a fairly amusing story about Crate & Barrell [sic] and, if I remember correctly, the wife of John Kenneth Galbraith.
Mrs. Arthur S/c/h/l/e/s/i/n/g/e/r, Jr., actually. My friend, [Elizabeth], happened to become friends with one of the Ss' kids, [John]. When John and Elizabeth were with his parents once, Elizabeth was talking about not having any money for furniture, being pretty broke at that point. Mrs. S turned to her and said, in her finest lockjaw, "Elizabeth, please do consider Crate and Barrel." (Now read that again, slowly, carefully enunciating every consonant.) "Please do consider" rapidly became a standard turn of phrase between us.
(While the story obviously suggests a little cluelessness on Mrs. S's part, I don't tell this story to mock her. She meant well and was very kind to Elizabeth.)
444, Those slope-sided things are inefficient especially in terms of fridge space. Don't they sell navajoweddikins?
I think mixing Greek and Latin roots is hottt.
How do you feel about mixing the two dirts?
443: See, I knew I'd mess it up.
444: Does your mom gift them filled with cornmeal mush? That'd be pretty cool.
445 made me laugh, I admit. Teo, the wedding baskets are beautiful.
Lambkin, ramekin, grimalkin cat
bodkin, baldachin, Kropotkin's hat
-- children's anarchist nursery rhyme
Don't they sell navajoweddikins?
No, for that you need pitch pots.
Does your mom gift them filled with cornmeal mush?
No, they have to supply their own mush.
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Facebook is suggesting that I add my mom as a friend. I'm thinking not.
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Straight-sided wide-mouthed half-pint canning jars have most of the ramekin virtues (bakeable, freezable, stackable) and some new ones (esp. with the plastic reusable lids, lunch goes to work in them). Also, wide-mouthed pints. Regular-mouth are OK if you aren't freezing, and some salsas and yogurts and so forth come in them. Different class markings than yer ramekins. I have never made gingham squares to tie over the tops.
There's a recipe on the internet for assembling pie in such a jar and freezing it raw and baking them on short notice. I've done this with full-sized pies on Insanity Rose's suggestion, it works.
I gave up on keeping spices out of a drawer and made over an entire drawer to them, with square jars with the names written on the lids.
454: See if you get a wedding basket when you get married.
456: I have one of those where the lid isn't gingham but a cross-stitched Norwegian flag that one of my cousins made for all gazillion of us at a family reunion. If I could find my USB cable, I'd upload a picture right now.
457: If she asked me I'd accept, of course, but she's shown little to no interest in Facebook generally. I think my chances of ending up with more wedding baskets than I could possibly want, whether or not I get married, remain good.
I used to dislike Crate & Barrel, because my parents would get in fights when my Mom spent too much money there--especially when it was on glass tumblers that were likely to break. It seems to me that their lower-end stuff is cheaper than their cheapest stuff used to be.
455 seems more precarious for keeping Spice in.
458: Aw. Much better than a cross-stitch duck. Perhaps not as stunning as custom-woven little napkinlets (was told recently that just about all ?female Swedihoovian? students still learn enough linen-weaving to make a simple practical trousseau).
458: Aw. Much better than a cross-stitch duck. Perhaps not as stunning as custom-woven little napkinlets (was told recently that just about all ?female Swedihoovian? students still learn enough linen-weaving to make a simple practical trousseau).
455: Those don't stack worth a damn, though.
465: Stack this, punctuation boy!
421: Ramekin versus small unique bowl at ten paces within a pit. Rules: you may not cook something in your 4-inch-wide ramekin, I may not put my small unique bowl on display for aesthetic purposes (or put it in the dishwasher).
I have to side (albeit barely) with clew here. Not on the canning jars (which are useful), per se, but on the niceness of being able to see through your tiny little bowl. Which is why I like Pyrex bowls. The straight-sided thing is an issue when you're trying to scrape out the last bits of chopped garlic. Ramekins are better for the oven, so I usually wind up having the Pyrex in use, and when I hit that 8-10-12 bowl limit, I press the straight-sided ramekins into service.
jms: The rack is crucial, since the problem right now is that I have a dozen or so tiny containers knocking around in my cupboard, hiding behind the flour and rolling onto the counter. Basically I'm trying to remedy my natural disorganizedness with the purchase of manufactured goods.
I made wooden spice racks a long time ago - so I could screw them in above the stove. Bad for spices, so I kept rotating. But I tended to stick with plain old Spice Islands or whatever, so a standard size was easy. Later, I found some el cheapo magnatized spice racks at WalMart. If you're rebottling bulk spices, I think the acrylic rack up there looks best. (Because almost all other spice racks you can buy suck.)
Spice rack
You're a bad bad man, Stanley. Organic all-natural spicy Italian racks are infinitively preferable to that pre-processed stuff.
max
['Don't get left behind, d00d!']
Sir Kraab is Teo's mom?
If she were I'm pretty sure M/tch would have known what a wedding basket was.
The straight-sided thing is an issue when you're trying to scrape out the last bits of chopped garlic.
Hell, Max, we were specifically not saying anything about that.
Hell, Max, we were specifically not saying anything about that.
So this is solely a contest amoungst the straight-sided glassware?
max
['Oh, well, I'm doomed then.']
472: Bonus points: the text on them can be instructive, too.
471: Not as far as I know. I too grew up with the Pyrex cups, what Witt called upthread custard cups. We used them for everything, including my mom's individual pudding-dessert things which could be found in the fridge. Good times!
365: It just may not have occurred to you before to make a couple of miniature layered casseroles of sliced tomatoes, sliced zucchini, red onion slices, few chopped black olives, couple of fresh basil leaves, intersprinkled with fresh parmesan ... and bake. So they are good for that.
It certainly wouldn't occur to me to make that in minature. Or, come to that, to use black olives at all.
Really, if you need small containers to store little amounts of food in, what's wrong with washing the containers in which you buy hummus?
(Or does no one else buy hummus? I don't have a food processor, and I do have multiple local hummus-makers to buy from.)
what's wrong with washing the containers in which you buy hummus?
These are oven proof?
Really, if you need small containers to store little amounts of food in, what's wrong with washing the containers in which you buy hummus?
Nothing, but no-one's arguing that you should go out and buy ramekins so that you'll finally have some small containers to store little amounts of food in. The point is that ramekins can be used for a lot of different purposes and so are handy to have around.
For instance, if you had a little leftover spinach from the night before, and wanted to cook an egg on top of it for breakfast in a neat little serving-size dish, putting the spinach in a ramekin, breaking an egg on top, and setting it in a half-inch of simmering water for a couple of minutes would be a tidy and effective way of doing that. Mmmm.
A hummus container, on the other hand, would have melted.
I have:
Tiny ramekins for lemon and butter for artichokes, or small amounts of ketchup.
Medium sized which hold one round scoop of ice cream or 1/2 cup of pudding, making it look like a full serving so we don't accidentally eat 1000 calories. They came free from Freshdirect (filled with frozen chocolate souffle batter).
Large, maybe 4" across, for creme brulee (calories don't count) and individual souffles. Also twice-baked potatoes when I let the kids carve out the potatoes and they mush the skins.
Get the torch. Creme brulee is a great equalizer when you've made a souffle or angel food cake and have a lot of yolks to get rid of. Although I admit that I felt rather foolish when I was checking out at Williams-Sonoma, saw the butane refills next to the register, figured I was probably almost out, bought one, then realized that I'm in the demographic for which butane for the creme brulee torch is a checkout line impulse buy. I suspect lighter refill from the hardware store, which I assume is exactly the same thing, would have been a wee bit cheaper.
477: These are oven proof?
No, but I hardly ever use my oven any more, except when I bake bread/scones/cakes or when I treat myself to (a) oven chips (b) a proper baked potato with crunchy salty buttery skin. Practically everything else gets cooked in the slow cooker or the microwave.
For instance, if you had a little leftover spinach from the night before, and wanted to cook an egg on top of it for breakfast in a neat little serving-size dish
I wouldn't do that to an egg!
If I want to eat a couple of delicious, free-range organic eggs for breakfast, I scramble them in my favorite non-stick pan with some chopped herbs from my garden that I went out and picked that morning. I do not mess them up with sticky leftover spinach.
(If I had leftover spinach, I suppose I might take this as a sign from the God of Leftovers to make spinach rice burgers.)
Get the torch. Creme brulee is a great equalizer when you've made a souffle or angel food cake and have a lot of yolks to get rid of.
Get thee behind me, Satan.
Anyway, getting rid of leftover yolks is never the problem - they're delicious instead of butter in mashed potatoes.
De gustibus non est disputandum. If an egg poached on a bed of cooked spinach doesn't sound good to you, I can't argue about that. (And will remain above snooty comments about non-stick pans, rather than long-lasting and superior cast iron.)(Hrm. Actually, I suppose I won't. Sorry about that.)
I would never eat leftovers. It's just crass. I only eat vegetables that I grow in the cruelty-free rainwater garden that I lovingly tend and sing to daily. I keep it in my dreadlocks.
It's not really my fault that you're so tacky, LB.
I never have leftover spinach. I always calibrate my spinach needs perfectly, and I pity those who aren't as advanced in their spinach-planning skills.
I torture rainwater just for giggles. I airboard it.
I'm simply going to build myself a little fort out of ramekins, and remain safe and sheltered in it. You can do that with ramekins, because they're stackable.
Delicious suggestion for leftover egg yolks: The Good Humor.
1 egg yolk
1 jigger of aperol
1 jigger of heavy cream
Shake vigorously to combine. Add ice to shaker and shake again to chill. Strain into a coupe glass and top with freshly grated nutmeg.
Everyone I've described this drink to wrinkles their nose in distaste, only to marvel later at the complex layers of flavor in the finished product.
Then there's the peanut malt flip, which Blume didn't like as much (she's not a scotch girl), but is handy if you also have leftover peanut butter:
Peanut Malt Flip
2 oz Single Malt
.75 oz Cream
1 egg yolk
.5 oz Simple Syrup
1 tsp peanut butter
Prepare in about the same way as the Good Humor, including the nutmeg topping.
I'm wrinkling my nose right now. Sounds extremely rich.
489 sounds like a hell of a thing to do to scotch.
And googling aperol suggests that it's pretty close to Campari. Would it be worth trying a Campari Good Humor, or would that be self-evidently gross?
490: it's awesome! Like the filling of a creamy, scottish Reese's peanut butter cup.
491: it's awesome! Like being born aloft by angels.
The troops are mustering as I speak. In the distance I can hear the skirl of the war-pipes.
Aperol is like Campari's friendlier, more orangey and less grapefruity cousin. Or so I'm told.
493: not self-evidently, but cocktails with egg in them tend to be very sensitive to the amount of booze (and the mixing technique), and if the alchemy's off they end up being kind of blah. I also think Aperol's a lot less sharp than Campari.
Yeah, I agree with Sifu's last statement. Aperol asserts itself less strongly than Campari, so it blends better, and gives a somewhat subtle bitter undertone, in contrast to Campari's bite.
Maybe substitute ½ jigger Campari and ½ jigger Cointreau? I hate buying a bottle of something new just to try a drink.
I had another yummy scotch-based cocktail the other day, a "blood and sand". It had scotch, sweet vermouth and cherry brandy, although I don't want to guess at the proportions, and apparently the traditional proportions are a bit sweet for modern tastes.
I hate buying a bottle of something new just to try a drink.
We are very different people.
You could come visit us in Boston, and we'll take you to the bar where we had it.
491: It's definitely rich. You couldn't get drunk on them.
In Germany people will put a shot of aperol in a glass of prosecco. Yum.
the bar where we had it.
Lemme guess: deep ellum.
Lemme guess:
Not to be pedantic, but it's actually "Let me".
I knew something like 481 was coming. Jesurgislac's mortification at admitting she doesn't always make her own hummus was palpable.
496: How would they feel about scotch and milk, which is a surprisingly tasty highball?
Does your answer change if the milk is from a hairy coo?
I hate buying a bottle of something new just to try a drink.
What Sifu said. But I think you should buy some aperol anyway. If you don't like it, you can always just send it on to me, ramekin sister.
re: 510
No idea. Right now I am engaging in hasty negotiations to prevent the launch of the armoured war coracles.
I am rather skeptical that you can taste the difference between a single malt and just a decent blended scotch beneath all that other stuff.
I am rather skeptical that you can taste the difference between a single malt and just a decent blended scotch beneath all that other stuff.
Yeah, there's probably no point in breaking out the good stuff. Any cheapo blend would work.
If it is a really strongly flavored single malt, it could come through.
Prohibition was, in my mind, a price worth paying if it stopped people doing stuff like that to a decent single malt.
Just for your reference, people, there are three things it is OK to mix with scotch, and these are a) water b) soda water and c) ginger wine (for a whisky mac); and only a) and b) are OK to mix with single malt. Note, too, that this list does not include ice.
You do what you want with bourbon, but scotch is sacred.
Now, if you'll excuse me, high tide is in half an hour, and I have an armoured war coracle to careen.
Um, ajay, you do know that Prohibition preceded by decades the advent of scotch being promoted and sold as single malts?
516: indeed, this is central to my point.
517: Then I don't see the connection between the two. Explain?
I'm reasonably sure they didn't use a single malt for either of those. It was probably something more along the lines of Dewar's. Or, who knows, maybe it was Lagavulin and peanut butter.
515: Also, you've obviously never had a well-made Rob Roy.
518: come on, M/tch, I'm launched on a wave of righteous fury and whisky-snobbery here, you can't seriously expect historical accuracy as well.
519: the recipe for that peanut thing says single malt... I think you'd be better off not, to be honest. Especially if you used one of the Islay malts. That'd taste very odd indeed.
What, indeed, would it mean for peanut butter to be 'leftover' rather than sitting happily in its jar? I suppose if the jar broke somehow, and you rescued the contents by scraping them into a small straight-sided ceramic container, that might seem as if you had leftover peanut butter.
Maybe you bought it for a particular purpose, but the amount you bought was greater than the amount required, so that some was left over. As it were.
Suppose you put peanut butter and jelly in separate ramekins as part of a "build-your-own sandwich" spread. Your guests seemed to prefer the cold cuts . . . .
I was well known in law school for my prowess at hypotheticals.
526: I don't know of any cocktails that you make with jelly.
529: Me either. You know what else is a really good highball? Rum and coconut water. Bourbon works very well too.
I made this and I liked it.
Your Pimm's suggestions are welcome. Got my first bottle ever, it's the song of summer.
Stoli greyhound here-- two ingredients, every bar has them, can be made drunk, no headache. minimally doctored good gin is OK too.
How are things, shamhat? Better, I hope.
507: Hmm, not Deep Ellum. Was it...DRINK?
533: nope! Haven't been there yet.
520: My dear father (of blessed memory) who was his whole life a bartender mostly drank scotch neat. On occasion if we were out at a fancy restaurant he'd order a perfect Rob Roy. More often than not he'd either have to send it back and tell the bartender how to make it or just grimace and drink it anyway. I think most bartenders then -- except for old skool ones like Pops -- thought "perfect" meant "really good!"
Isn't a scotch and milk a "Presbyterian"? Or is that some other awful drink?
I'll be damned, it was single malt. I bet it was a highland malt. Anyhow, disrespecting the Scottish is my ethnic heritage. Also, it was delicious.
>How are things, shamhat? Better, I hope.
I can't exactly recall how much I complained about here.
Recently the forensic psychologist sent an "interim report" asking for me to be given more visitation and I'm now getting alternate weekends, starting on Thursday nights. I used my first weekend to take them to the dentist, and the next one will be to get the Gardasil vaccine for the 15-year-old. We also went to a family therapist, who probably thought I was exaggerating about the disfunctionality of my ex's household (personality disorders) until a routine question brought up a barrage of complaints from the kids indicating that the stepmother's eating disorder seriously impacts my kids' lives.
I am now referred to as "non-respondent" as the charges were dismissed (9 months ago), but the ACS still considers their agency involved and the case worker still generates reports. However the judge remarked that the case worker's report and the forensic psychologist's report "don't even seem to be describing the same family."
My oldest daughter just turned 18 and still refuses to speak to me. I was legally allowed to give her birthday presents by handing them to the younger kids--at least, I think I was and I haven't been hauled into court yet. She declined an invitation to join us in family therapy. My ex says she doesn't want me to know where she's going to college because she is afraid I will call the college and "tell them bad things about her," which makes me think she's terrified that when her lies are discovered her whole life will fall apart (as it has for the rest of us already). If I had the opportunity, I would tell her that her lies don't matter anymore, as what's been done can't be undone.
Legal expenses are still around $250,000, trickling in at a couple thousand a month because nothing seems to be happening. We get assigned a court date about once every 3 months and the forensic report, which was supposed to be done in March, isn't done yet.
Shit. Doesn't seem like sound bites of humor or superficial life experience, about all that fits into the little boxes here, are really appropriate. Lesser beings in your place would have collapsed, something all of your kids may appreciate someday.
Ramekins are great for chocolate pudding/fondant. I really love glass, and am always happy when I find something from Corning, but the ramekins here are glazed ceramic.
Oh man, Shamhat. I am not brave enough to contemplate what you are living through. I can only send hopes that things get better for you.
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