We hurt ourselves too much and too often to be expected to take all the blame.
I procrastinated on Saturday morning chores so I got vented at in a blog post.
Were they really saying it was God, or did they just really mean that if you get cocky, you stop paying attention to little things, and then you get hurt?
My impression was that they were really saying it was God. That they were being taught a lesson.
When the mineshaft is dissecting The Rest, I often feel that a major source of misunderstanding is an unchecked assumption about how much mental airtime The Rest dedicates to thinking about a given topic.
Molly and I had a conversation on a similar topic. Molly's Family Member X has a large collection of hideous porcelain figurines in a display case in her living room. I suggested that perhaps X wasn't really tacky; she just spent less time fretting over decorations than say My Family Member Y, whose house is much more tasteful, but also the product of a lot of fret and finance, which is really just a product of the fact that Y places way too much importance on having a Nice House. Molly replied that, no X and Y spend equal amounts of mental energy worrying about having a Nice House. They just have different income levels accordingly different aesthetics.
I know, aesthetics is not critical thinking, but the cultural dynamic is similar.
In fact, what spawned the conversation was a sprained ankle injury from last week. The guy attributed it God teaching him a lesson, and a one point his wife said, "I don't know, I saw him step like this [demonstrating], so I think he did it to himself." Which I take to mean that she was disagreeing with her husband and offerring something like Rob's 3 to contrast.
The error is in presupposing that a single almighty being is making these decisions. Soccer gods impose injury, travel gods screw up plane flights, litigation gods re-arrange depositions, and so on. The Relationship Gods have taken Emerson from us, for what purpose we can only speculate.
If being arrogant correlates with taking greater risks, then it ought to also correlate with getting injured.
Also, once you believe that an omnipotent being is concerned about the details of your life invoking him to explain a turned ankle makes perfect sense. This is one of the reasons I have difficulty talking to really religious people. There's a fundamental disconnect in our understanding of the way the world works that makes communication about anything but trivialities difficult.
I once got in a fight with a guy while playing Ultimate Frisbee, so God upgraded me to business class on my flight here.
a one point his wife said, "I don't know, I saw him step like this [demonstrating], so I think he did it to himself."
This blows my mind. So she thinks that God is capable of inflicting injuries to teach people a lesson, and that if such an injury occurs, it won't correlate to anything that can actually be seen, like a misstep? Just one second ankle is fine, the next it's injured?
Gd s/b karma, fate, erinys moirae, norns, logic, causality
Let she who doesn't connect events into a narrative by well-blessed by the spirit of Hume. The rest of us live in our imaginations.
8:If being arrogant correlates with taking greater risks, then it ought to also correlate with getting injured.
I guess I left psychology off the above list.
7: Right. Assorted gods and godlets, imps, and demons, along with Murphy and his minion Glitch fit the observed world far better than a single OCD almighty does. Monotheism is really just a manifestation of a lack of imagination.
Eduardo must have been very cocky. (Don't click that link if you're grossed out by injuries).
If injuries correlate to divine punishment, I must be a moral monster.
The Unfogged gods are going to punish you for posting this, Heebie.
I'm not saying I *want* them too, I'm just saying they *will*.
Now I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong in order to get hit by an errant horseshoe last night.
Propositioning nosflow in bad faith, probably.
That would make perfect sense. Alright, lesson learned. No more false propositions.
False propositions are nothing in comparison to dangling propositions.
Is that a dangling participle or are you just happy to see me?
Molly replied that, no X and Y spend equal amounts of mental energy worrying about having a Nice House. They just have different income levels accordingly different aesthetics.
Yeah, it's not like porcelain figurines just happen to you by default, unless you expend extra energy and expense to keep them away.
24: Unless you inherit them, as I did. And now, out of some misguided loyalty to my aunts, I have small little porcelain horses stashed in various nooks in my house. Not exactly my design aesthetic, but I can't afford that, anyhow.
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Wrongshore's 12-months in review mix, volume 1 (two more comin' at ya!)
Vol 1: Good Lies
Sugar Baby - Sam Amidon
Two Weeks - Grizzly Bear
You Don't Know Me - Ben Folds (feat Regina Spektor)
Dominican Rum - Larkin Grimm
Jolene - Dolly Parton
Hold On - Solomon Burke
Madness - Mike Vickers
Mrs. Officer feat. Bobby Valentino - Lil Wayne
Money - Jesca Hoop
Konichiwa Bitches - Robyn
Juno [Ra Ra Riot Remix] - Tokyo Police Club
Roland The Headless Thompson Gunner - Warren Zevon
Good Lies - The Notwist
Librarian - My Morning Jacket
Thank You Mario But Our Princess Is In Another Castle - the Mountain Goats and Kaki King
Herringbone - Department Of Eagles
The Only Tune: I. The Two Sisters - Nico Muhly
Print-cut-and-paste CD sleeve downloadable here.
Assiduous Mineshaft listeners will hear a few familiar sounds.
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5: They just have different income levels accordingly different aesthetics.
There's something about Bordieu's habitus and "virtue of necessity" thing here, about we convince ourselves that we don't want fancy expensive things and/or just have different values than those rich people, but would really secretly want them if we could afford them. I'm not so convinced. I mean the habitus stuff I buy, but that's more class background than income level. My in-laws, for example, wouldn't suddenly wants modern art if they could afford it. At most they might want original portraits of deer and pheasants.
Those porcelain dolls that folks collect and display cost quite a bit of money actually. Even the "cheap" ones.
God is making me spread 4600 lbs of mulch in my front yard with a fucking pitchfork because I am a stupid hippie.
7 is so obviously more plausible than monotheism that I find out bizarre that in older histories of the world they proclaim monotheism as a gigantic leap forward. Maybe it's a gigantic leap forward in the sense that it makes no goddamn sense, and then we have no choice but to invent science to explain everything that we can't attribute to small-scale malevolent spirits.
31: "In the beginning, God was the Gods (Elohim), a plural which some call the plural of majesty and others the plural of plenitude; some have thought they noted an echo of earlier polytheisms or a premonition of the doctrine, declared at Nicaea, that God is One and is Three. Elohim takes a single verb...." (Borges)
Monotheism is pretty damn rare in practice. A very large portion of Christians revere Mary and/or various saints as having supernatural powers, plus angels, demons, and Satan him/herself. "But they're not gods!" is I guess the usual explanation, but praying to St. Christopher vs. to Mercury for safe passage seems like a distinction without much difference.
There's some similar stuff at work within Islam regarding saints and prophets and martyrs. I don't really know whether there are Jewish analogues and what they would be, although the focus on dietary/work/dress/hairstyle/etc, restrictions within Judaism strikes me as somewhat similar.
I'm going to be punished for that stray comma, I just know it.
26: Hooray! Your "Friends" mix is still in regular rotation on my iPod.
Judaism is pretty clean on monotheism in practice, if you set aside the Kabbalists.
35: Thanks, and likewise on yours. Also in re shared musical tastes I thought you should know that WWII's and my rings are inscribed "Come With Me Go Places".
I think Neko Case should know too, but all of the scenarios in which I tell her about my wedding ring end in terrible irony.
"but praying to St. Christopher vs. to Mercury for safe passage seems like a distinction without much difference."
The distinction, admittedly often difficult to discern in day to day practice, is that you are supposed to ask St. Christopher to intercede for you, not pray to St. Christopher.
I hypothesize that attributing things to God instead of 'I got cocky/tired/inattentive' is part of extraversion. Similarly, I think some extreme extroverts have apocalyptic fears/fantasies when introverts would be depressed or suicidal.
rings are inscribed "Come With Me Go Places"
That's awesome. We got married before I discovered The New Pornographers, so ours have a Crowded House lyric on them.
30: I once spread a bunch of mulch because I thought I would be civic-minded and volunteer in the park. I also started to come by and water the stuff we planted. One day this got me snarled at by old people who didn't think I was moving fast enough. "It's hot and I'm not getting paid. Go bother the waitress at IHOP".
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Hmm, the new swine flu vaccine will contain thimerosol. The cull begins!
42: If they were really starting the cull, why isn't the McRib back?
I think Neko Case should know too, but all of the scenarios in which I tell her about my wedding ring end in terrible irony.
I don't know, I think she might see what the moral of the backstory could be.
The NPs had better play some shows this fall, or 2009 could be the first year in quite some time that I haven't seen them live.
This blows my mind. So she thinks that God is capable of inflicting injuries to teach people a lesson, and that if such an injury occurs, it won't correlate to anything that can actually be seen, like a misstep? Just one second ankle is fine, the next it's injured?
Probably not. It was a conversation, not a treatise, and she was probably just voicing disagreement with her husband's interpretation of things, not setting out a full-blown theory of divine retribution.
47: Oops. "conversation" s/b preceded by "casual".
47 what a brave woman, i like fully support her voicing
49: I'm like exceedingly glad to hear that, read.
51: Oh, I doubt that very much. Very much indeed.
i'm crashed then, you should be very much assured in that
and please stay in one thread i can't chase you all over threads to disagree
Hey read, I didn't get a chance to say anything in the last thread, but I'm so glad to see you back.
I know someone who used to talk abut spilling coffee as God teaching him a lesson. He was referring to missing the first sip of coffee in the morning and spilling some on himself. He referred to it as God's little joke. He needed the coffee so badly that he didn't have the mental wherewithal to drink it properly. I think that you could have substituted hubris here if you wanted to.
He certainly doesn't think that people who get terrible injuries are being taught a lesson, just that God was laughing at the irony and "telling him" that he needed to slow down a bit to speed up, since changing his tie takes time too.
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Heebie, rfts said that you recommended a book on getting a new habit started. What was it called? I couldn't find anything by searching amazon.
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10: Heebie could settle this, but I read the wife as saying that natural explanations suffice, with a subtext of the kind of "get over yourself, god wouldn't bother" we're making text here.
38: And is one not asking Mercury to intercede on one's behalf when one prays to Mercury?
hi, BG!
starting a new habit, that sounds interesting, if there are some useful techniques, i have so very weak willpower, if there are some ways to enhance self-discipline, just keeping diaries or writing memos never work with me
not a habit, but just doing something the first attempt i usually fail then if i give it some time like brewing processing perhaps somehow the second time i kinda succeed, though sure there are things about which i realize my true limitations and that i can't go around them and just like pine or loose interest, usually loose interest
that's like 'subconscious' meditation technique i guess
conscious meditations if i try like to sit and think specifically like you are calm, everything around you is calm, your hand is heavy or you can do it etc i feel kinda ridiculous and wasting time
59: In that instance, you are asking Mercury to intercede for you with a cold and uncaring universe. If it's St. Christopher, you're asking him to intercede for you with a loving and almighty God. So in the first case, you're basically an atheist.
And is one not asking Mercury to intercede on one's behalf when one prays to Mercury?
No, you're asking Mercury, as a divine being with supernatural powers, to put his hand in his bag of magic tricks and pull out the one which grants your wishes. St Christopher doesn't have his own bag of tricks, he has to persuade YHWH to use his.
62 is what I as getting at in 38, more clearly expressed. 61 seems confused.
Also, if you're praying to Mercury you're not inhabiting a cold, uncaring universe, but one where pretty much everything is animated by spirits, genii, nymphs, lares, penates, heroes, tutelary gods and godesses, etc., all of which lead eventful existences of their own and often care far too much for their own good.
The Socratic Approach should always be used to open the conversation with the victim. That is what asking questions to start an argument is called. You approach the victim and simply ask:
"Did you know that God is a female? And that Her name is ERIS, Goddess of Discord?"
If the victim says "yes", then he's either lying or you've picked a fellow Discordian, idiot. If he doesn't, then proceed to:
THE BLIND ASSERTION. This is where you say, "Well, She is a woman and Her name is Eris." Now see if the victim appears to be convinced. If not, proceed to
THE FAITH BIT. "But you must have faith! Faith is wonderful, etc.! I feel sorry for you if you don't have faith!" And then add
THE ARGUMENT BY FEAR. "Do you know what happens to those who don't believe in Goddess?" If the victim says "no", don't tell him whatever it is you think happens to unbelievers, just shake
your head sadly and go to
THE FIRST CAUSE PLOY wherein you point to all the chaos around you and ask, "Well who do you think make all this then, wise guy?" If he says "nobody, just impersonal forces", then go on to
THE ARGUMENT BY SEMANTICAL GYMNASTICS wherein you say thathe is right and that those impersonal forces are a female and that
Her name is Eris.
65: You think Mercury cares about you? He's like your average CEO, he only cares about himself.
read, I think you mean to say "lose interest" there.
BG, heebie or rfts may correct me, but I believe what you're referring to is a book called The Now Habit. It's about overcoming procrastination though, not exactly about starting a new habit (unless that habit is specifically to not procrastinate).
Thanks M/tch. Well, I do need help with procrastination. I'm trying to work out more, and I want to start out at a reasonable amount that I'll stick to. I tend to get really excited for a while, but I let it fall by the wayside when things get stressful or busy.
I was looking for The New Habit. That the title is actually The Now Habit explains why I couldn't find it!
Never said it was a friendly universe. It's a deeply scary one, but not incapable of feeling. Mercury will give you his full attention if you sacrifice an unblemished ox on his altar. Whether it's a good idea to get his full attention is another matter.
I thought there was a thread here discussing it awhile back, probably last fall, but I can't find it at the moment.
Heebie taught it for a freshman orientation type class. She's discussed it over on her blog, but I can't access it at the moment, as my employer (out of pure spite, surely) blocks heebie's site here at work, otherwise I'd provide some links.
71: I have found a great deal of useful cooking advice in The Now Hobbit.
I'm sure heebie's students were confused that she was teaching them how to sacrifice to Mercury, but hey, that's what a liberal education is all about.
I've been reading Skrbina's book on Panpsychism.* There's something quite comforting about the idea of a universe filled with: animated by spirits, genii, nymphs, lares, penates, heroes, tutelary gods and godesses, etc.
* not that he's particularly concerned with that type of panpsychism.
76: Of course, you've got to watch out for all those rape-minded swans, bulls, golden showers, etc.
But I'll have to check out Skrbina. That sounds interesting.
so there is no such a word loose, perhaps i mix it with choose
No, there is. Loose is pronounced with an S sound at the end. Lose is pronounced with a Z sound at the end. It's perhaps the single most common error I see, even among native English speakers.
's perhaps the single most common error I see, even among native English speakers.
Ugh, yes. Drives me insane.
Loose is a word -- it means the opposite of tight. It's just distinct from lose, which is the word you wanted.
As a verb, loose means to set free.
but then maybe perhaps it's not a verb, but an adjective
i don't go to check the dictionary coz trying to build a lasting connection between the neurons
next time i'll see loose and recall you and BG
It's perhaps the single most common error I see, even among native English speakers.
That's rediculous, but I'm bias.
next time i'll see loose and recall you and BG
As in "women of loose virtue," obviously.
62
St Christopher doesn't have his own bag of tricks, he has to persuade YHWH to use his.
Doesn't he? Do people who pray to saints really picture them just making supplications of their own further up the ladder like you're saying or do they picture them invisibly guiding someone's hand, turning aside dangerous rocks, etc., like Mercury or one of those angels in "Family Circus" cartoons? (I obviously don't know what I'm talking about here, but so what?) What you're suggesting may be theologically sound but it doesn't seem logically sound.
Why not just skip the middleman and pray directly to God? If God wouldn't listen to you then why would a saint, and if a saint would listen to you then why wouldn't God? One obvious flippant answer is that God uses the saints to save his valuable time by sorting through supplicants and picking out the most pressing or deserving cases in their bailiwicks for help. This seems unnecessary if God is all-knowing and all-powerful, though.
As I've said, before I called myself an atheist I called myself a deist, and I guess it still shows.
90 what, you don't wish me well? what if i'll built some wrong connections and get laughed at?
Loosers of the world unite! You have nothing to loose but your "o"s.
Maybe God gets lonely, so he keeps the saints hanging around him at all times, and while they're there he has them help with problems they're interested in to let them be useful. But, again, if God is all-knowing and all-powerful this system can't be any quicker or more effective than having him do it all himself.
94: And then they'll be losers, and losers don't have many "o"s anyway. (I kid, I kid! No offense to all those losers out there, I'm often one of you.)
Why not just skip the middleman and pray directly to God?
Protestant!
OT: I linked this on my Facebook page a few minutes ago, but it bears repeating here.
Armed with explosives, two men are heading to Mongolia's Gobi Desert to find the fabled acid-spitting and lightning-throwing Mongolian death worm. The worm has never been documented but some Mongolians are convinced it exists. They call it Allghoi Khorkhoi, or "intestine worm" because it resembles a cow's intestine and is about 1.5m long. The worm apparently jumps out of the sand and kills people by spitting concentrated acid or shooting lightning from its rectum over long distances, NZPA reports. (Seriously.)
If I could shoot lightning from my rectum, I would rule the world. But not with an iron fist because, you know, conductivity.
re: 77
It's had quite good reviews, the Skrbina book. For what it's worth, I didn't personally really rate it. It's OK and I found bits of it interesting, but I wanted more from it, I have to admit.
God has delegated the whole miracle business to the saints because He's bored with them. Newly dead aspirants to sainthood just love their new toy though.
But the worm has been documented.
No, you're asking Mercury, as a divine being with supernatural powers, to put his hand in his bag of magic tricks and pull out the one which grants your wishes. St Christopher doesn't have his own bag of tricks, he has to persuade YHWH to use his
Often ancestor worship is theorized the same way. Your ancestors are in Heaven now, and can plead on your behalf to the divine authorities. In the Chinese folk religion, this can be a very bureaucratic process.
Interestingly, Pope Benedict XIV ruled that ancestor worship was genuine worship and couldn't be practiced by Chinese Catholics.
there are mirages in the deserts and dehydrated people are prone to hallucinations, but if they die as a result of the attack
i'm agnostic about olgoi khorkhois
The saints make sense in the context of patronage and courtier culture. You can't go and petition the king directly, see. You'll end up waiting in interminable lines along with the other riff-raff, and the king is busy and could be really cranky when you finally meet with him, and besides, why would he care about your little land dispute? Much better to ask so-and-so if he knows anybody at court who will use a favor for you.
France still works this way, as far as I can tell, as do certain sectors within the US (the art market, academia).
104: "You have never been inside a film studio? ... It is really [the same as a] palace of the 16th Century. There one sees what Shakespeare saw: the absolute power of the tyrant, the courtiers, the flatterers, the jesters, the cunningly ambitious intriguers. There are fantastically beautiful women . . . incompetent favorites . . . great men who are suddenly disgraced . . . insane extravagances . . . unexpected parsimony . . . enormous splendor, which is a sham . . . horrible squalor hidden behind the scenery . . . vast schemes abandoned because of some caprice . . . secrets which everybody knows and no one speaks of. There are even two or three honest advisers. These are the court fools, who speak the deepest wisdom in puns, lest they should be taken seriously. They grimace, and tear their hair privately, and weep." (Isherwood)
105: There's really a lot of that all over.
If I could shoot lightning from my rectum, I would rule the world.
Still wouldn't get you a pot-crapping dog though.
Also, "lightening-shooting rectum" needs a name (like vagina dentata).
Rectum zapata?
Rectum illucescens. Perhaps you meant "lightning", though.
Perhaps you meant "lightning", though.
Clearly you haven't checked the flickr group lately. Apo is totallly into anal bleaching these days.
White as the driven snow, baby. ZAP ZAP ZAP!
109: No, it's a rectum that will ZAP! you. Which is kick-ass. And what does one kick ass with? Shoes, that's what. Duh.
ZAP ZAP ZAP!
The dark enemy has been repulsed!
114: Just be sure not to ask for the "desert" by mistake. Worms, you know.
Rectum illucescens. Perhaps you meant "lightning", though.
Rectum fulgens?
i'm agnostic about olgoi khorkhois
read's trying to cover it up because she's secretly in the pay of the Bene Gesserit.
119: Well, the spice must flow, you know.
FEAR IS THE MINDKILLER
123: Apo's ass is a killer ass.
YOUR DOG IS NOW THE PROPERTY OF THE TSAR
when i read about people coming to find specifically some kind of miraculous things i'm kinda sorry for their disappointment and disillusion
coz most probably they won't see anything except the big empty space, if there are the wonders they are sure very well hidden and won't open up for the brief expeditions
but they'll get to see the desert sky at the nights without any light interference, that's worth travel perhaps
sure deserts are everywhere too
117 perhaps i won't get offered desserts for some 6 mo and it's all your fault
next time i'll see loose and recall you and BG
You know, of all the people here who might bring the word "loose" to mind, I wouldn't have gone with BG.
Weird. 131 = me. My personal info is saved and everything.
133: All living in the interstices.
next time i'll see loose
I don't see loose. Because I'm a feminist.
129: well, you know, maybe they'll come to look for the enormous acid-spitting Mongolian death worm... and find themselves.
I don't see loose. Because I'm a feminist of my enormous hand-stretched penis.
136: "All my life I've been searching....and all along the answer has been within me.....I myself am the acid-splitting Mongolian death worm!"
I believe the enormous acid-spitting Mongolian death worms are our future.
Teach them well and let them lead the way.
137: Artisanal, hand-rubbed meat is the best. (Or so I've heard on Unfogged.)
Mongolian Death Worm would be a good name for a penis band.
Band of Penises wouldn't be a bad name for a band.
perhaps i won't get offered desserts for some 6 mo and it's all your fault
Hey, if you don't get your desserts, talk to Karma about it, not me.
143: Band of Dicks -- better or worse?
read,
You probably still don't know i am, but i'm glad to see that you are back!
148: "still don't know i am" -- wow, that really sounds pathetic!
I meant to write "still don't know who I am" -- which is pathetic enough.
The unknown support me in e-mail.
I still don't know who wrote 149.
I wrote 149 to find myself.
But I still haven't found the giant albino earthworm of Oregon.
(1) Go to Oregon.
(2) Inspect your stool.
I claim 149 as my own.
And yet there is a little of peep in each of you, and little of each of you in peep.
155: Why do I still find that joke funny, after all these years?
149: IIRC, and I do, "I am" is one of the names of god.
The unknown support me in e-mail.
Oh, yeah? Well, *I* unzipped my pants, and there was a sock! I removed the sock and LOOK! A Mongolian Death Worm! And it said, 'Hey! Let's start a band!' and then it zapped me.
max
['Fucker.']
159: It is suggested that you stay away from the acid brownies.
157: I'm sure it's my stellar delivery.
Acid brownies!? Why has no one informed me that such a thing existed?
158: Somebody, please delete 149, 156, and 158!
Indiscretion error!
159: And then I found five dollars.
Teach them well and let them lead the way.
From a safe distance, that is. One shouldn't follow too closely.
160: 159: It is suggested that you stay away from the acid brownies.
!Dude! Que pasa purple brownies!
max
['Cowabunghola!']
165: The worms are watching us, the worms are watching us, the worms are watching us from a distance.
143: A Band Of Bees / Sting / A Band Of Penises?
All the laydeez say (in e-mail) that my beestung penis is very attractive.
Absolutely the weirdest compliment I ever received was when I was told "nice penis" the way phlebotomists say "nice veins".
the thread is absolutely degenerated i see
173: Clearly he was selling semen for cash.
172: Are you calling me degenerate again, read?
All my other veins were tapped out.
i meant i'm glad to see you too i think it's like obvious
Oh. peep probably just thought that was a banana in your pocket.
ha, ciphers, always have trouble with them
177 is not to 173, but 148
b/c 173 was not about 171 as i initially thought
Resolved: this blog is degenerate and should be raized and replaced with a happy happy bunny bunny blog full of beeyoutiful flutterbys!
max
['And tea parties!']
At least you weren't being told "nice penis" the way nervous mailmen say "nice doggy"
Now there's a good band name:
Nice Penis and the Nervous Mailmen Letter Carriers.
I say the thread linked in 168 should go in any hardbound Best of Unfogged collection.
187: But it was only a small prick, peep.
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Hey look, they came out with a new strain of HIV. Normally they wait until Christmas to introduce the fun new products.
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What do you think that gorilla did to get God mad at him/her?
olgoi is actually appendix, khorkhoi is bug so correct is appendix bug, not death worm
