What do you need help with?
I read the story, and it seems, well, sort of obsessed with how attractive this guy is to his girlfriend, who is a total fuck machine, and how conflicted he is (wah!) about having a lusty fuck machine for a girlfriend.
1: Sorry if I was unclear. I found the quoted part hilariously odd and was looking for more of those. I'm not sure others have shared my reaction.
Alternatively, I want company in feeling self-satisfied as a mechanism for coping with my own insecurities.
Alternatively, I want company in feeling self-satisfied
You may want to warn people that clicking on any of the stories he links in that top post, especially "Sloppy Girl," is going to be a huge rape trigger for any victims.
5: Oh lord. I hadn't gotten that far yet. Caveat added to the OP.
Jesus Christ, every single one of these stories is about how he can totally prove he didn't rape a particular excruciatingly beautiful girl, because not only did she rape him, she was also [disgusting, drunk, rotten at sex, mean, a bitch, etc.]! Case solved, everyone!
By "crowdsourcing", you're suggesting that people trawl through the cesspool of douchiness in search of nuggets of mildly amusing weirdness? I don't think I can stomach it.
9: I'm regretting not reading more of his site first.
Post updated with some of it moved below the fold.
Jesus, the first thing he refers to as a "favorite" story that's not about how it totally wasn't rape you guys is "The Masturbation Gambit," which is about his totally wonderful and horny girlfriend who of course adores him is hideously unfuckable because she is slightly heavy and dresses casually. He's keeping her around, without fucking her or tricking himself into fucking her, because he hopes one day he'll convince her to show some human-level pride in her appearance.
I could be wrong, I suppose, but my guess is that he's a narcissistic misogynist and his stories are bullshit.
Let's get together and steal his girlfriend away from him. Teamwork, everyone!
Two stories in a row feature the charming phrase "squirt after squirt of ejaculate," by which he means that every time he has an orgasm, everything for miles is covered in semen. This is the climactic plot device in most of these tales. How embarrassing that you somehow came in her eye, drenched the sheets, coated her tits, smeared it all over the mirror, and still had some left to get her hair all stuck together! Is this supposed to be some kind of porn for narcissistic misogynists with a severe problem with human anatomy?
Oh wow, I did not see 13 before typing "narcissistic misogynist." It's just the only way to describe this shit.
Yup. (hey Bear, could you remind me of the recipe wiki address?)
I never really understood why so many spam emails involved "increasing your volume."
But, the emails make a little more sense if your goal is to drowned the girl or to spray it everywhere.
Thanks. Back to your narcissistic misogynist porn, folks.
This is the climactic plot device in most of these tales.
Well, it would be, wouldn't it?
He write Man Stories with Man Words on a Man Computer.
Notice: no actual women were encountered in the making of these stories.
I really like that Breeders riff around the 3:50 mark of the video.
Somewhere there's a guy writing narcissistic, misogynist, tantric porn, and the climactic plot device is not drenching everything in semen.
27: Marble-through-the-hands trick? That shit gets me every single time. Crazy ol' JC...
Stanley, I am all over your tits like a starving monkey sucking an orange.
The wine/blood shell game. Blood? Wine?
It's eerie, how he knew you'd be reading.
Well, the "Stanley, " was silent, but I see through his game.
Also, how can all these starving monkeys survive if all they have is oranges? Plainly, they need some foodstuff with more caloric content or at least less-active lifestyles.
We must look elsewhere for our promised starving-monkey-ologist. He is not the One.
I say we starve the monkeys. Monkeys are bastards! Once, monkeys in Lombok raided my car (while I was driving, no less!) and stole a bag of rambutans before making off through the sunroof.
Does the guy in the OP address this issue? Because I'll only click the link if he does.
The hand hiding her tit feels the cum on her boob. She looks down at herself and realizes what it is that's covering us both. We look like we've both been slimed by a horny ghost.
"OH... MY... GOD!" she yells. "How could you?!"
"I uh..."
"No really! Physically, how could you?! This much?! THIS MUCH?!"
What could I say?
"I'm a teenage boy," I shrug.
"OH MY GOOOOOD!" she yells again as she turns and runs upstairs.
I can hear her screaming and gasping as she runs. I'm left downstairs, alone, covered in my own juice. I look down at my still erect penis and all I can think is, "How in the hell am I still ready to go again?"
...laydeez
How many monkey oranges could an orange monkey eat?
I'm reading #37, but I'm imagining the scene like this.
On the subject of volume, I knew a girl who was enough of a traditionalist in the feminine wiles department that she regularly remarked upon and praised my output. It was a bit odd and made me a little self-conscious, but I am pretty sure she was flattering me.
"OH... MY... GOD!" she yells. "How could you?!"
"I uh..."
"No really! Physically, how could you?! This much?! THIS MUCH?!"
This is such a strange fantasy. He wants the woman to be disgusted, so that he can prove how little her disgust means to him? So it's all a performance of rejection that, because it's a fantasy, he can control? So sad.
40: I don't think it's supposed to be disgust, I think it's supposed to be awe (with an initial confusion for disgust, which makes teh funny).
The best thing I got out of this was learning about this song, which he uses at the end of the youtube video.
I am really curious about how 39 was phrased. I can't imagine it not sounding like a mommy praising a toddler's big poo. (That isn't in any way to equate poo and semen, but all I can hear in my head is "Look at what a big one you did!")
I can't imagine a mommy praising a big poo, absent me wearing a diaper and trying to explain that this isn't my fetish lady, I'm looking for Arguments.
Also: dumbass has never heard of an "away" message. e-mail or VM. Total BS.
43: I think you can just use the same awestruck tone you use in praising a man's size. "Ooo, it's SO BIG. I don't know if I can fit it inside of me."
Also, just as a man doesn't have to be actually large to be flattered by such cooing, he also doesn't have to be productive to be flattered by comments about volume. So you can start practicing your volume compliments on whomever you are with.
Don't be modest, rob. I'm sure you can fit it inside of you.
I think for a certain percentage of my benighted gender, the ready availability of large numbers of women for consensual sex has ruined the experience, so they need to recreate nonconsensuality symbolically.
48: I think I put forth a somewhat less condemnatory theory along those lines back in the archives someplace.
[Googling, googling]
43, 46: If I recall correctly, and increasingly cringingly, there was cooing about volume specifically and the vigor of its delivery and a lot of seductive nonsense about her being, or, en avance, desiring to be, filled therewith: in other words, the sort of thing women deluded men with until the advent of feminism.
50: Well, you did die in the 18th century, so you don't have to cringe too much about the lack of feminism.
50: Isn't that just Stock Porn Dialogue 7? At least she didn't ask you to jizz on her face.
52: I was young. She had a foreign accent. And firm, round breasts. The point is, I'm not the one on trial here. Society is!
a man doesn't have to be actually large to be flattered by such cooing
Really? Doesn't insincerity sort of kill the mood? If I were in bed with a guy who kept, for example, talking about how huge my breasts are, and I know and I know that he knows that they are not actually big, just average-sized, I don't think I could enjoy it. I guess I don't like being paid untrue compliments. There are some nice things that could be said about my body, so why say untrue things that make me paranoid?
It's surely reasonable to imply a certain subjectivity: 'Of all the X I've handled, your X is the biggest/best/most perfect'
Does any guy want to hear "Of all the many cocks I have handled, yours is the most... uh..."?
"For a bear, you're really not that hairy."
55: how is a man going to know if he is average-size, big, or small?
I would also like to object to this shock and horror at the thought that someone might enjoy sex that seems nonconsensual and the assumption that any man who does so is depraved. I only recently discovered that the main reason for my rather barren sex life of late was forgetting that the safe word is not "hey, stop that!"
Unrealistic flattery is facilitated by the fact that there are lots of areas where most people don't have a lot of opportunity to compare themselves to others -- I would guess that there are plenty of straight men who have, e.g., very rarely or never seen a non-porn erection other than their own, and even more rarely seen non-porn ejaculate. Assuming they're discounting porn as unrealistic, or aren't porn watchers either, they don't have any basis from which to call a compliment untrue.
Not that I hand out untrue compliments, of course.
I only recently discovered that the main reason for my rather barren sex life of late was forgetting that the safe word is not "hey, stop that!"
? Spell that out?
55: "Cooing" implies a certain degree of sincerity, or at least enthusiasm, I think, and enthusiasm is gratifying.
57 -- Definitely not the kind of thing that would interest me!
But it's all in the phrasing and tone, I suppose. 'This is the best ever' delivered with requisite sincerity ought to work on all but the most self-loathing.
Of all the carp I've handled, Charley is the most perfect.
62, 63: To add, sincerity and enthusiasm are a marked departure from our pop-culture-fed expectations of grudging, resentful, temporary acquiescence, emotional or physical.
Really? Men have no idea? That seems absurd. At any rate, seeing only porn erections seems to make a lot of guys think they're a lot smaller than they are. (I've discussed here before how frequently average or above-average men have apologized in advance for not having much to work with, which is a pretty unappealing thing to say to a girl, and no, does not make you seem bigger when the time comes, and basically communicates that you're going to be all insecure. But since this never seems to happen to anyone but me, I'll assume that someone put a permanent "SIZE QUEEN" tattoo on my back while I wasn't looking.) I tend to find that guys with perfectly respectable equipment often think of themselves as quite small, and saying, "Ooh, you're so enormous!" would not be taken kindly. Also, I am sucky at paying explicit compliments, so maybe none of this works for me.
Screams of pleasure are the only compliment a person really needs.
And "cooing" sounds insincere to me. But I don't coo normally, so doing it in bed would be weird.
Men have no idea? That seems absurd.
Really, though, if you leave porn out of it, how would straight men get a basis for comparison? Even with the locker-room aspect of life, there aren't a lot of erections in (non-porn) locker rooms. While porn would leave most ordinary men thinking they were tiny, someone who either doesn't watch porn or manages to successfully discount it doesn't have much else in the way of comparative information beyond comments from women.
I don't coo normally
I'm intrigued. Tell me more about your abnormal cooing.
- I would guess that there are plenty of straight men who have, e.g., very rarely or never seen a non-porn erection other than their own,
To deal with this conundrum, 17 year-olds rely on statistics and rulers.
73: Figures don't lie, but liars will figure.
doesn't have much else in the way of comparative information
Maybe you people will think twice before disdaining fraternities now.
"Cooing" implies a certain degree of sincerity, or at least enthusiasm, I think, and enthusiasm is gratifying.
"Cooing" actually implies that you're having sex with a pigeon, in which case, sure, everything about you is going to seem quite large. However, you certainly shouldn't be doing this.
I've discussed here before how frequently average or above-average men have apologized in advance for not having much to work with
The only guy I can recall ever commenting on his size was rather self-impressed. And I, having then little basis for comparison and having assumed that locker rooms, etc. had perhaps given him some basis for said claim, believed him. Subsequent sampling suggests his self-evaluation was inflated, but one has no way of knowing whether one's exceedingly modest sample is at all representative.
Even in my clothing optional co-op, you weren't supposed to see boners. Were we prudes compared to the frats across the street? Tell me more, please!
you weren't supposed to see boners
What's the point of having a boner if you don't get to share it with the room?
No more, uh, self-cooing to Les Paul.
? Spell that out?
Normal course of events:
1) "Hey, stop that!"
2) <stops>
Recent addition
3) "the safe word is not 'hey, stop that!', it's <something else>
4) "Oh. Right."
5) <continues>
Damn it. Look at the Halley's Comet thread.
84: Oh, wow, you were actually doing stuff with a formalized safeword and forgot that you were listening for "Avocado" rather than "Stop that!" Heh.
Come to think of it, I bet plenty of people doing playacting of non-consensual stuff have a hard time disregarding playacted distress to start with.
Jesus: I confirm your pwnage. In fact, as you pwned yourself to a degree in the course of your pwnage, it may be the most perfect pwnage to which I have ever laid witness.
From you were actually doing stuff with a formalized safeword and forgot that you were listening for "Avocado" to the main reason for my rather barren sex life of late seems a pretty steep penalty for a pretty minor foul.
89: Come to think of it, yeah -- I'm surprised the miscommunication wasn't straightened out immediately. That sounds like a once-or-twice funny story, rather than something that would actually affect how much or what type of sex you were having.
I'm surprised the miscommunication wasn't straightened out immediately.
You can't imagine the hijinks that ensued when the Polks carelessly chose "Give me more of that!" as their safe word.
89, 90: I could see it totally killing the moment. You're all riled up, squeal a delighted "Stop that," and then he does stop that. Pausing to explain that, "I didn't say avocado!" would kind of defeat the whole "oh, you dominant dominator dominating me concept. The ready opportunities for confusion (if I were really distressed, would I remember to say "avocado"?) are why I don't get involved in safe-word sex. Well, the confusion along with the fact that I steer clear of all this "sex" nonsense you kids all seem to be into these days.
91: Hey, cleaning four gallons of semen out ot the mattress isn't easy!
I'm drawing unusual amusement imagining what the actual President Polk's (or any other president's for that matter) safe word might have been.
"Santa Anna!"
President Polk is just a funny name. There's a park in NY with a statue of Seward that was actually originally a statue of Lincoln that the sculptor couldn't sell, so he cut the head off and soldered on Seward's head in its place, and near it is an abstract, completely non-anthropromorphic sculpture that I and my friends referred to as the statue of President Polk when I was in high school (I'm not sure how that one got started, but I still find it amusing).
90: It reminds me of a story from the massive 1969 Cubs pennant race collapse. One game was lost when the pitcher made a pick-off throw to an uncovered third base. Turned out the "trigger" words for the play consisted of a back and forth that a 3rd baseman and the pitcher might normally have with each other. Cleverly disguised, but when the pitcher triggered it the 3rd baseman unwittingly "confirmed" by replying as he normally might in that situation. The Cubs do manage to at least be creative in their losing.
To deal with this conundrum, 17 year-olds rely on statistics and rulers.
Limited lunch options on campus in August led to my sitting next to a table of raucous high school visitors a little while ago. They were carrying on a quite loud and rather amusing conversation about penis sizes for all to hear. (They also, after rejecting 'peni' and 'penises', concluded that "the plural of 'penis' is 'penis', just like 'deer').
95: There's a park in NY with a statue of Seward that was actually originally a statue of Lincoln that the sculptor couldn't sell, so he cut the head off and soldered on Seward's head in its place
I assume you are referring to this one. Article mentions but debunks the story of the re-used body.
Really, though, if you leave porn out of it, how would straight men get a basis for comparison? Even with the locker-room aspect of life, there aren't a lot of erections in (non-porn) locker rooms.
Yes, this seems obvious.
It's sort of like atheists and foxholes.
how would straight men get a basis for comparison?
The same way we always have: by blowing strangers at rest stops.
99: I aim to bore and take the fun out of life in general. (Sorry, it triggered my old alt.folklore.urban debunking instincts; stories that sound too pat are almost always too pat.)
Also, no one is actually buried in the Tomb of the Unknown Student at my high school.
I HAVE ALWAYS ASSUMED THAT AT LEAST 40% OF TEENAGE BOYS HAVE HAD ERECTION-MEASURING GET-TOGETHERS. I CERTAINLY WOULD IF I WERE A CURIOUS BOY.
Subsequent sampling suggests his self-evaluation was inflated, but one has no way of knowing whether one's exceedingly modest sample is at all representative.
What happened to the c0ck@unfogged.com flickr pool?
108: The images were too big and were causing Flickr's servers to crash, so they had to be taken down.
What happened to the fucking thousand comment thread we had on this subject that was, for some time, 'the funniest thread ever'?
I know what happened with c0ck@: Ben & Ogged chickened the fuck out.
I HAVE ALWAYS ASSUMED THAT AT LEAST 40% OF TEENAGE BOYS HAVE HAD ERECTION-MEASURING GET-TOGETHERS.
I believe there's a word to describe such a situation, and that word is 'gay'. So I am thinking maybe 10%.
Pausing to explain that, "I didn't say avocado!" would kind of defeat the whole "oh, you dominant dominator dominating me concept. The ready opportunities for confusion (if I were really distressed, would I remember to say "avocado"?) are why I don't get involved in safe-word sex.
The short version is, it's a pain in the ass, unless you just like slapping women around (I don't, thank you), in which instance a safe word is a fig leaf.
max
['Real, and really real are often the same thing.']
Has anybody here participated in a circle-jerk?
I recall that Allen Ginsberg described participating in one in a documentary. And since Allen Ginsberg did it, it's obviously not gay. Right?
110: It's still there, though some of FL's contributions have since been redacted.
And since Allen Ginsberg did it, it's obviously not gay. Right?
That's what I keep telling everybody.
['Real, and really real are often the same thing.']
It's like a pretend clown.
OT:
I am wearing a suit today (one I had made early in the summer but hadn't had a reason to wear before), which is unusual for me. Most of the time I dress like an unemployed librarian like a man without a woman at home badly casually, but tradition isn't wrong about the effect of a suit on one's posture and demeanor. Maybe I should do so more often.
a lot of seductive nonsense about her being, or, en avance, desiring to be, filled therewith
My partner's insistence on the desirability of such filling is consistent and loud and outstrips the flattery I take from it, so I'm inclined to trust that it's part of the experience for her.
Also that there is some imagination-work being done around "filled up with". I am not nor have ever been a vagina-american, but I feel pretty confident that no quantity of normally produced semen would make a lady feel like a water balloon.
116: Nicely chosen presidential pseud.
no quantity of normally produced semen would make a lady feel like a water balloon
I've seen two apparently unaltered video clips on the wild and crazy interwebs that, uhhh, led me to severely broaden the confidence interval around the average amount of semen a body could produce in one sitting. It wasn't no kind of sexy, but it was impressive in its own freakshow way, I guess.
This thread makes me feel dirty. In a bad way.
It's like you lot haven't heard of science.
116: There was that scarringly unappealing scene in Election that comes to mind. Are you Matthew Broderick?
119: Will you need to get your suit dry cleaned?
I'm convinced that large amounts of porn are produced solely for shock value, and not at all for erotic value. No one masturbates to these things, they just dare their friends to watch them.
I'd be interested to see empirical research on how people watch porn. For instance, how often to heterosexual men watch porn in groups? Does this vary by ethnic or age groups? How much of the porn market are hardcore users, and how do their tastes differ from casual users? I'm certain the multi-nationals which own the major porn companies have done marketing research on this issue, but I doubt it is publically available. Maybe I should just read Adult Video News or something.
solely for shock value, and not at all for erotic value. No one masturbates to these things
The first part of that is definitely true. I suspect the second is not true, but you wouldn't want to know any of the people who disprove it.
125: Are you saying they have no erotic value and yet people masturbate to them? That they have no intrinsic erotic value and yet they get some people off?
I am reminded of David Foster Wallace's essay about the AVN Awards, which isn't as good as the one about the cruise ship, but is pretty damning in its survey of pornographers.
I'm saying the people making them are doing so for shock value. But it's a big, diseased country out there.
127: I'm reminded of when Luke Ford was actually writing lukeford.com. It was an utterly fascinating look behind the scenes of the porn industry, but it sure did make the industry's First Amendment arguments (while still correct) feel gross and disingenuous.
128: For some people I'm guessing, the shock value and the erotic value are inseparable.
.
130: Oh sure. My distinction was between producers and consumers.
I think the boundary between socially acceptable and unacceptable varies greatly with age and ethnic group, and that the aura of being forbidden will disappear from porn pretty soon.
I don't think there's any way around the best kind of sex (all-consuming reciprocal passion) being too socially disruptive to ever be indulged in openly. Possibly it will be largely displaced by colder, more controlled liaisons, which may become more public-- blowjobs as flirting or whatever. Also unavoidable is a population of people incapable of close interpersonal ties, scarred by stigma or violence, who will have deeply unhealthy attitudes about sex, and who will be confined to commercial avenues. So ubiquitous porn and holding hands in real life is the new scandalous.
empirical research on how people watch porn
PDF article from the Journal of Economic Perspectives. One of the interesting tidbits is that rates of signing up for pay pornography are way higher in red states than in blue states, with Utah being the highest. Whether that means red staters watch more porn or blue staters are more savvy at getting it for free is left to conjecture.
From the link in 132:
I hate seeing him coming. It's like Russian Roulette.
Has anybody here participated in a circle-jerk?
Well...no.
I recall that Allen Ginsberg described participating in one in a documentary. And since Allen Ginsberg did it, it's obviously not gay. Right?
Putting aside my non-participation, and putting aside the whole double-secret-beatnik-not-gay-King'sX thing, I'd think that an actual circle-jerk was not terribly good for comparative purposes, depending on how it was done. (Is there actual circle-jerking, or is it just group masturbation while drunk?( Actually comparing boner sizes sure seems like it would involve getting really really really close together. I'm not sure how the whole 'latent homo1sexuality denial' thing would work out there.
max
['Iiiiiiiiffffff.... you know. What I mean.']
1Bi bi! Christ.
Not "way higher," actually. I misremembered the data. But Utah still is #1. This was interesting:
"using individual-level data from a Hitwise sample of ten million anonymized U.S. Internet users, Tancer (2008), finds that adult escort sites are more popular in "blue" states that voted for Gore in 2004, while visitors from the "red" states that voted for Bush in 2004 are more likely to visit wife-swapping sites, adult webcams, and sites about voyeurism."
55
Really? Doesn't insincerity sort of kill the mood? If I were in bed with a guy who kept, for example, talking about how huge my breasts are, and I know and I know that he knows that they are not actually big, just average-sized, I don't think I could enjoy it. I guess I don't like being paid untrue compliments. There are some nice things that could be said about my body, so why say untrue things that make me paranoid?
Two reasons.
1.) Fantasy. Imagining you or your partner is more attractive then they objectively are is a rather common, innocuous and easily accomodated fantasy.
2.) Love is blind. People are generally not completely objective about the attractiveness of their lovers.
Of course it is also reasonable to try to avoid sensitive areas if you know about them.
and that the aura of being forbidden will disappear from porn pretty soon.
If this were to happen, I think I might find it depressing. I find the whole porn industry depressing and a tad upsetting though, as everyone has probably well-noted by now.
Of course it is also reasonable to try to avoid sensitive areas if you know about them.
UR DOING IT RONG.
132: holding hands in real life is the new scandalous.
I did not know this.
125: I suspect the second is not true, but you wouldn't want to know any of the people who disprove it.
Seconded.
136: finds that adult escort sites are more popular in "blue" states that voted for Gore in 2004, while visitors from the "red" states that voted for Bush in 2004 are more likely to visit wife-swapping sites, adult webcams, and sites about voyeurism."
Yeah, for the blue states, I wonder how much of that is the whole globalization thing, plus the not married thing. I'd want to see the numbers for upstate NY to compare.
It's like a pretend clown.
A really pissed-off smelly clown.
max
['I'm sure there's a porn vid for that.']
140: It's about as true as "white men are an oppressed minority."
lw's declension narrative is hyperbolic. I don't doubt the existence of damaged souls, but mores have been less radically altered by the ubiquity of porn than people tend to think.
porn industry depressing
The commercial and degrading parts are deeply distateful, but probably the most fixed. It's not clear to me how representative these are, though.
Look at flickr self-portraits. There is a population of people who like being looked at; this couples with kids' changing ideas about privacy in pretty obvious ways. The boundary between look-at-me on the interweb and commercial exploitation is not at all obvious-- there must exist porn "producers" who siphon up footage of willing volunteers and package it to resell. I'd guess the biggest barrier to growth is low production values (bad lighting or whatever). Cheaper CCDs will change that even more.
When I said "is the new scandalous" I meant "will be in this future extrapolated from current trends" but I try not to write like a windbag. I do not think I am hyperbolic; this is what I genuinely expect to happen. People used to think kisses were special, not very long ago.
142: Oh, thank you. I was beginning to worry for a minute.
I do realize that holding hands, sort of uncontrollably and helplessly -- naturally and with pleasure -- early on in a relationship can set off a kind of "Ohmigod, Ohmigod, what are we doing!" reaction in some people, but still, I'd rather not give it up. It doesn't come along every day.*
* And that is the kind of complimentary thing you say to someone: This is good. This doesn't come along every day. Not this stuff about how big your tits or your cock is (are).
"Your tits are good. They don't come along every day."
Despite my resistance to what lw's saying, it seems to me that there's no doubt that society in general is becoming more pornified, if you will -- along with what lw calls "colder, more controlled liaisons." I don't think a case even needs to be made: it's just obvious.
Hm, here's the thing, though (and I'm testing the waters here, have never framed this before): I'm not sure I care, personally. I'll continue, myself, to engage sexually and romantically with people who get it, by my lights. I don't have kids about whose sexuality I might fret. I can't bring myself to issue some sort of moral statement about which approach to sexuality is right or proper.
And that is the kind of complimentary thing you say to someone
Prescriptivist!
143: there must exist porn "producers" who siphon up footage of willing volunteers and package it to resell.
Girls Gone Wild.
144: Not this stuff about how big your tits or your cock is (are).
Some people like to talk dirty.
max
['Others, not so much.']
I'm not sure how the whole 'latent homo1sexuality denial' thing would work out there.
re: circle jekrs, etc.
Near 150 comments and nobody has mentioned the possibility of nude beaches etc. let alone threesomes, moresomes, orgies [*]? There's are an awful lot of dicks and tits and other bits around, people. The only way you can avoid having some idea of what lots of peoples body parts look like is by actively working at it.
Which isn't to say that many/most people don't actively work at it.
146: I think I care, because TwitterSex isn't very far from TwitterLife, and life is already too cheap in our post-industrial pre-wasteland.
I don't think a case even needs to be made: it's just obvious.
Statements like this are their own refutation.
Near 150 comments and nobody has mentioned the possibility of nude beaches etc. let alone threesomes, moresomes, orgies [*]?
Let alone the Bread Game.
Statements like this are their own refutation.
Is this sarcasm?
Despite my resistance
Just say avocado.
152: I had to Google that. Ookie Cookie with bread!
Near 150 comments and nobody has mentioned the possibility of nude beaches etc. let alone threesomes, moresomes, orgies [*]? There's are an awful lot of dicks and tits and other bits around, people. The only way you can avoid having some idea of what lots of peoples body parts look like is by actively working at it.
"Actively working at it"? That is, shielding our eyes during our obligatory visits to nude beaches and orgies? Or making a special effort to never visit nude beaches and orgies even when everyone else is doing it?
"`Avocado' is not my safeword." is not my safeword.
154: And I had to google "Ookie Cookie"; that's clearly the superior name.
"Does not yield my safeword when appended to its quotation" does not yield my safeword when appended to its quotation.
Or making a special effort to never ... accidentally see more of anyone than you think they intended, yes. Or ever go to a public pool, or skinny dipping, etc. etc. etc.
Seriously, I suspect I've known more than average number of people who are not body shy, let alone those with more exhibitionist streaks[*], but I find it hard to fathom how one can maintain a serious ignorance about body variability. Granted, erections aren't in quite the same frequency as breasts, say.
[*] e.g. once asked to sit on an impromptu panel at a party to decide a "who has the dangliest labia" argument.
just saying.
I run in a pretty casual crowd (we don't leave the room to change clothing, for example), but while I've seen many of my guy friends' dicks, I haven't seen their erections.
We're saving that for marriage. Makes the wedding reception all the more special.
150: I think I care, because TwitterSex isn't very far from TwitterLife, and life is already too cheap in our post-industrial pre-wasteland.
Flippanter!
Seriously, there's a generational, or age-related, problem here, for me anyway. I'm in my 40s. Younger people tell us (leave that generalized, but it is a message) to shut the fuck up about disliking Twitterification and so on.
Since I can't bring myself to launch a full-scale sociological cant about what might be problematic about it -- and since my own cultural preferences, roughly hippie, are easily attacked -- I suspect I'm on the road to just shrugging and shutting up. Y'all aren't stupid, you know what you're doing. Carry on.
I mean, I don't like the breakdown of communication between generations (and I'm actually not a full generation ahead), but as I get older and youthful life morphs, I do get closer to letting it all be. It takes younger people now to crititique their own generation(s) if that's what they want to do.
Makes the wedding reception all the more special.
Besides, when you have a nude wedding, you've got to have somewhere to hang the Boutonnière.
By my lights that's more than "pretty casual".
Younger people tell us (leave that generalized, but it is a message) to shut the fuck up about disliking Twitterification and so on.
From what I've heard, twitterification is pretty solidly middle aged, or at least skews in that direction. Kids won't touch it.
161.last is making me laugh. I know people who wind up at (or hosting) parties like that, but I've never been to one, and would probably go back outside to the fire. 'Cause that's just silly.
Perhaps literal twitter, but say the number of facebook friends seems to anticorrelate with age, as an example of how the damn kids just seem to have less of a sense of privacy.
Hmmm. I think of 'would change in front of someone while chatting' as middle ground between 'parties must be nekkid!' and 'would be embarrassed at a wardrobe malfunction'.
I have never seen an erect penis either in a locker room or on a nude beach. Of course, I've also never heard the Dave Matthews band, so I may be an outlier.
165: Am I in trouble again? Aw, man.
I should have dropped an "I do not mean this in a Ross Douthat-ian way" footnote in 150.
In this case, for not recognizing the context-variability at play in each of your three positions, which even vary in different ways.
'Cause that's just silly.
Yeah, it was pretty silly of them. For what it's worth, it wasn't really anything to do with the party. Point was, for whatever reason some people are a lot less conservative, even enthusiastic, about others seeing their bodies.
I have never seen an erect penis either in a locker room or on a nude beach.
I worded that poorly. I meant only that one could reasonably say that even if you've seen a few hundred penises or whatever, you might not have any idea of what variation in erect penises was. In this way it is dissimilar to breasts.
Hmmm. I think of 'would change in front of someone while chatting' as middle ground between 'parties must be nekkid!' and 'would be embarrassed at a wardrobe malfunction'.
This seems about right.
Don't worry Megan, here it is nosflow who is being crazy.
Hmmm. I think of 'would change in front of someone while chatting' as middle ground between 'parties must be nekkid!' and 'would be embarrassed at a wardrobe malfunction'.
Much in the same way that the Republican Party is a middle ground between fascism and left-liberal pony fantasy funworld.
I don't even see how those three things make up a scale.
Well sure, context varies. I guess the rough context is a social situation with friendly peers.
I don't even see how those three things make up a scale.
Really? I've met pretty much that scale in a single family. I'm assuming Megan is talking about around friends, in a house or whatever. Not changing while talking to a stranger in the mall.
...a social situation with friendly peers.
Dukes, the odd baronet, you know the sort. Huntin', shootin', fishin', the odd bit of coed nudity o' evenings....
Is this sarcasm?
Not at all. IME, statements prefixed with "it's just obvious" are the ones that are most likely to contain incorrect assumptions. This goes double for historical comparisons.
Actually, I can quite easily imagine public party-related nudity and changing in front of a subset of the same people at the very same party being entirely independent, not least because I know people who occasionally get naked at parties who I am fairly sure do not change in front of their friends.
Not at all. IME, statements prefixed with "it's just obvious" are the ones that are most likely to contain incorrect assumptions. This goes double for historical comparisons.
Ideology. It's real.
175: Of course you're not in trouble. I never thought you meant any of that in a Douthat-ian way. You just said something, you know, strongly opinionated! I love it when people do that.
I know people who occasionally get naked at parties who I am fairly sure do not change in front of their friends. you, perhaps?
Context matters, but many people are fairly casual about this. Particularly around people for whom they don't expect it would be a problem.
It's just not that unusual, ime.
Because they don't bring a second set of clothing to parties? That makes sense.
184: You could always argue against it substantively, Josh. Make a case for the claim that society in general has not become more pornified.
Yes, soup, you have correctly divined that they have not changed in front of me.
You could always argue against it substantively, Josh. Make a case for the claim that society in general has not become more pornified.
Why should I do your work for you?
OT:
This makes me want to buy a Playstation. Or an XBox. Or both. And then marry them.
191. I'm insightful that way.
To each other?
Of course. What do you think we are, preverts?
To reply somewhat less tersely: I'm not interested in making a case for the claim you want me to, because I'm not sure that I believe it. What I *am* sure of is that I'm not sure, so your claim that "it's just obvious" sets off my bullshit detector.
192, 196. My work, which I don't pretend is scientific:
- millions more people partake of porn than used to (no, I don't have a cite)
- anecdotally as well as anecdatally, people enact porn-type scenes/behaviors in their own private sex lives, and often know that's exactly what they're doing
- people take, and send their young daughters to, pole-dancing classes (no cite)
- girls' clothing is increasingly slutty-seeming (no cite, but mentioned on this blog in the past as well as elsewhere)
- girls gone wild et al., see various spring break types of activities
- teens giving casual blowjobs
I contend based on these and other unmentioned things (bleaching assholes, Brazilians) that pron has increasingly influenced the behavior of everyday people. Making a list like this makes me impatient, to be honest. I see that there are questions one might raise about some of these things, chiefly to do with comparative historical trends. One might even just say that we've simply become more permissive compared to earlier eras, and hasn't that always been so ... so ... whatever.
What's weird is that a Massachusetts farmer just discovered Jonathan Edwards's library, intact, in the attic of one of his outbuildings. And Edwards had a complete run of Juggs. Data point.
Now if that's not Emerson bait, I really don't know what is. I've said it before, I'll say it again: I miss John Emerson. If someone's in touch with him, please pass along my best wishes.
One might even just say that we've simply become more permissive compared to earlier eras
Yeah, those free love types were pretty uptight.
I can't tell how provocative 197 was, but I'm off. Apparently there's a Timothy Leary special on tv that a friend wants to watch, and my roommate is making a chard/red onion/zucchini/cherry tomato omelette! Yay.
197: I'm seeing the same pornification as you do but I'm not sure if p/orn is doing the driving or if society is driving the industry.
A glimpse of that horrifying "Tots and Tiaras" or whatever it's called show leads me to the society as driver idea 'cause I doubt those moms ever watched real p/orn yet they're pushing their kids in that direction.
Or maybe they did. The problem with using sales as measure of who is watching it is confounded by the vast amounts of pirated stuff available free on usenet. Maybe the red staters have more respect for intellectual property than blue staters.
Anyway, generation gaps are real. Thing to do is relax and not worry about them. The kids will have to create and solve their own problems as well as deal with the ones they get from us just as before.
The only way you can avoid having some idea of what lots of peoples body parts look like is by actively working at it.
I have effortlessly avoided seeing any men who I wasn't fucking naked since college, and I can count the occasions in college fairly easily. (Very easily, in fact. I'm coming up with twice -- one bunch of people skinny-dipping, one co-ed sauna. I don't think I've ever seen an erection (in person) on a man I wasn't having sex with.
Seriously, it doesn't take a lot of work.
(And I'm not even particularly uptight about nudity -- a social circle where people changed clothes offhandedly in front of each other wouldn't bother me, I'm just not in one.)
LB and I are lack-of-seeing-naked-people twins!
The only real life naked men I have seen with whom I was not sleeping were a couple of Earth Firsters who were (and this is where the thread comes together!) convinced that they needed to fight each other a la Fight Club in order to get over their weakness and residual liberalism, and prior to (but not during, which would have been another situation all together--yes, another situation called Earth First fanfic!) the fighting there was some sort of cock-joke/get-over-your-hangups conversation which resulted in their nakedness.
Yeah, of course it has to do with the circles you hang out in. I've seen, I don't know, a few dozen men naked, aside from those I was sleeping with. It'd be in the context of skinny dipping, or saunas, or changing after swimming/canoeing. Or changing while camping. Even then you have to be careful: some people prefer a great deal of modesty.
I've never been much for the nude beaches thing. I burn very, very easily, and plus, the patriarchy! Nakedness only among trusted friends, yo!
203: I lied about the erection -- forgot a flasher. But not since college.
Oh, wow, you were actually doing stuff with a formalized safeword and forgot that you were listening for "Avocado" rather than "Stop that!" Heh.
I was not aware that there was a formalized safeword. I may have been told and forgotten, or I may have not been told. I just thought that she was generally not that into it, for a variety of plausible reasons.
I lied about the erection
Dammit, I knew I wasn't really that big.
I was not aware that there was a formalized safeword. I may have been told and forgotten, or I may have not been told
Well, uh, there's your problem.
This guy makes a good case that porn has not become mainstream:
http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/08/has-porn-become-mainstream-not-really.php
Surprisingly, a lot of people don't use porn.
soup: I meant only that one could reasonably say that even if you've seen a few hundred penises or whatever, you might not have any idea of what variation in erect penises was.
Which, circling around to grAndWaBs point, is what I was trying to get at. If you're a guy and you've held enough erect dicks in your hand to compare sizes, you're probably gay. Or very confused.
Pars:- millions more people partake of porn than used to (no, I don't have a cite)
This is almost certainly true, going by the number of porn titles and the volume of porn online. (The number of porny pictures published in any given month must outweigh the number made available 30 years.)
- anecdotally as well as anecdatally, people enact porn-type scenes/behaviors in their own private sex lives, and often know that's exactly what they're doing
Well, that's a fad, yes.
- people take, and send their young daughters to, pole-dancing classes (no cite)
There are apparently several women on youtube who post vids of their pole-dancing exercise routines.
- girls' clothing is increasingly slutty-seeming (no cite, but mentioned on this blog in the past as well as elsewhere)
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I suspect that's a push. People used to wear tight clothes and they still do - and they still wear clothes period, so not seeing a big enough shift to quantify.
- girls gone wild et al., see various spring break types of activities
I think that comes and goes, much like heroin addiction. It is, however, videotaped, which wasn't happening before.
- teens giving casual blowjobs
Seems like a push. I suppose, by pornofied, you meant that everything has become more visible now, I could totally go along with that.
Bio: but I'm not sure if p/orn is doing the driving or if society is driving the industry.
They had porn before they had plastic boobs and they have porn afterwards as well. That seems more like a generic phenomena. ('Plasticization') Doesn't just happen in porn.
Anyway, generation gaps are real.
To make a callback to the previous comment I made, I'm pretty sure I'm on the other side of the gap from parsimon. Which is weird, but there it is.
Ari: I've said it before, I'll say it again: I miss John Emerson.
This blog needs more communist/prairie populist agitation.
max
['Frowning farmers unite! You have nothing to lose but your Protestantism!']
211: Huh. People are just different now (yet the same), and that is what I'm perceiving.
204: The only real life naked men I have seen with whom I was not sleeping were a couple of Earth Firsters who were (and this is where the thread comes together!) convinced that they needed to fight each other a la Fight Club in order to get over their weakness and residual liberalism, and prior to (but not during, which would have been another situation all together--yes, another situation called Earth First fanfic!) the fighting there was some sort of cock-joke/get-over-your-hangups conversation which resulted in their nakedness.
I would like to add here, viz where ever that microthread occurred, that I thought Fight Club made Priscilla, Queen of the Desert look like a John Wayne movie.
max
['You know, teh gay sexxor probably hurts less than the punching in the face.']
I'm pretty sure I'm on the other side of the gap from parsimon. Which is weird, but there it is.
You mean you twitter and text and have 400 Facebook friends? I'm surprised, max.
Seriously, though, yeah, there's a very close line right around the born-in-early-60s area. On the other hand, I know 36-year-olds who seem to share my own cultural aesthetic.
Seriously, it doesn't take a lot of work.
Perhaps the culture is doing a lot of work for you? How many naked women have you seen, particularly that you don't know?
But, sure, as everyone notes it depends on social circles. I've probably seen a few dozen naked people of whatever genders in hot tubs (no sex involved or implied) just because they're the kind of houses where unplanned "lets fire up the hot tub" happens. Probably a couple of extra suits around as needed but really, why worry about it? Some people are more relaxed about this than others, is all, but I guess it speaks to localized norms.
that I thought Fight Club made Priscilla, Queen of the Desert look like a John Wayne movie.
Now compare this scale to `Hegwig and the Angry Inch'
If you're a guy and you've held enough erect dicks in your hand to compare sizes, you're probably gay. Or very confused.
In the room though? Not so much.
Also .... "hey, ow, you guys switch, X is bouncing off my cervix"
is informative, not flattering.
Further to 216.1: I don't know what the "callback to the previous comment [you] made" refers to. I'm always curious about these kinds of differences, since you and I are only, what, 3 or 4 years apart. Though I don't need to belabor it by any means. Just curious.
sorry, I'll try and be more earnest.
222: ? Maybe I need to look up the Hedwig. I'd just recalled Priscilla ..., which I've seen several times, and the original comparison was odd/interesting/funny, and, I don't know, the build-up became extremely funny.
223: self-effacing joke that fell flat, is all.
Hewig is worth looking up though.
At least I knew it was "Hedwig", silly. And it sounded like a children's book to me, so god knows where I'd heard of it. Anyway, done and I see.
How many naked women have you seen, particularly that you don't know?
More than I could count -- locker rooms and dressing rooms. But if you're talking quantifying the dangliness of labia, we're back down to none -- around where I'd expect most straight men to be in terms of direct boner experience.
Perhaps the culture is doing a lot of work for you?
Is there a politer way of saying "No shit, Sherlock"? Certainly, were I a member of a culture without a nudity taboo, I would probably have seen more naked people in my life. And different people live in different subcultures, with different levels of nudity taboo.
nudity taboo
Nooda deeta boo.
direct boner experience
It's the indirect boners that skew the numbers.
At least I knew it was "Hedwig", silly.
It really is worth watching, even if I can't spel it.
Is there a politer way of saying "No shit, Sherlock"?
No, but I appreciate the thought.
It was basically the same point I was trying (failing?) to make, afaics.
Boners are hard to detect without bonar.
232. Okay, babe, I'll see it! Maybe my brother would like it. He and I passed Priscilla, Queen back and forth a couple of times for some reason, which is really the reason this is making me smile a lot.
Meanwhile: Nooda deeta boo. GUFFAW.
and you need a bonar array to do proper triangulation
234: You're just saying that to try and make me feel better, aren't you?
Thing is, bonar equipment is notoriously sensitive. Every so often it has to pass a pair of test tickles.
You're just saying that to try and make me feel better, aren't you?
Just some information for future reference, so next time you won't go looking for boners without the proper equipment.
And it sounded like a children's book to me, so god knows where I'd heard of it.
Well, it is about Harry Potter's transsexual owl.
Looking for Boners would be a good band name for a seemingly hapless band from Eastern Europe. I bet they could totally play it off like, "What? We didn't know! Ha-ha!"
Maybe something for Sacha Baron Cohen to do next.
Maybe something for Sacha Baron Cohen to do next.
I was sort of hoping that would be "retire away from the public eye".
That one played badly for test audiences, essear.
To be clear, I wasn't advocating for it. But I could imagine it.
Isn't conventional wisdom that Sacha Baron-Cohen's next movie is the "Orly Taintz and the Birthers" project?
Standpipe's blog had a round-up of posts about it, I think.
I can't tell if Taitz is misspelled intentionally or fortuitously in 245, but I like it either way.
247: That was the clarification I was after. D'oh.
adult escort sites are more popular in "blue" states that voted for Gore in 2004
Here's a tip- don't invest in adult escort sites.
233: Sorry I was testy -- your initial comment on the topic annoyed me. I read it as "Of course most people have a broad experience of seeing naked people they're not sexually involved with, and if you don't it's because you're so hung up about it that you're running screaming in the other direction when it seems possible nudity might happen, which it does all the time in normal social interaction." As that doesn't now seem to be what you meant, I shouldn't have gotten cranky about it.
250: Hmm, and published in a peer-reviewed journal, no less.
It's odd how much it varies from different parts of the country. For people I wasn't sleeping with, I've seen everyone I went to college with naked, and everyone I know in California naked, and beyond that, nobody.
I've seen many of my male friends naked in the showers at the gym. I presume that's fairly standard. But I've seen very very few of my female friends naked, even in college [except for the ones I was sleeping with at the time]. Scotland must be less nude-friendly.
I've seen very very few of my female friends naked
Far fewer than I'd like to, certainly.
Sorry I was testy -- your initial comment on the topic annoyed me.
Missed the pitch I was actually going for, I suspect.
comity!
Solve the Obesity Crisis! Repeal the Nooda Deeta Boo!
In the last four months, way more people than I ever imagined have seen me naked, or at least in various degrees. I am ususually quite prude.
I am ususually quite prude.
...says the woman who emails pictures of her ass to strangers on the internet.
Plus every orgy I attend has a very strict blindfold rule.
I'm only up to 178, but I want to jump in. Why would increased acceptance of public sex amount to devaluing sex or widespread interpersonal alienation? Take LW's example of blowjobs as flirting. Why would this take away the frisson of flirting? It seems to me it would just change the expression.
I might even go further, and say that more public sex might genuinely lead to a more loving society. Think of the bonobo, the pygmy love ape. Bonobos use sex to mediate every interpersonal interaction, and their communities are marked by a lack of violence and hierarchy. Perhaps public sex in humans would also amount to a collective letting our guard down.
In any case, I think the argument is academic, because we aren't going to ever live like the bonobo or use blowjobs as flirting.
Speak for yourself, helpy-chalk.
Yeah, I had no idea that the MIdwest was still so backwards.
Am I in the wrong culture? Because I don't know if I've ever seen a nude woman in a casual situation, not counting girlfriends or immediate family. Porn, sure, and a stripclub or two I confess. But I guess I've never been sufficiently friendly with people sufficiently body-unselfconscious enough to change clothes in front of me or go skinny dipping or engage in droopiest-labia competitions. Maybe I need to be the change I wish to see in the world.
229
How many naked women have you seen, particularly that you don't know?
More than I could count -- locker rooms and dressing rooms.
Heh, for some reason I jumped to the conclusion that this was written by a straight man. My eyes bugged out when I read this and I thought the voyeuristic pervert would have to be commenting presidentially. It wasn't until I scrolled down and saw LB's handle that I realized my conclusion was unwarranted.
262: I would rather not live like the pygmy love ape. Call me closed-minded.
For a sample size of N, the largest (and smallest) cock in the sample should scale as N*log(N). This entertains me.
Also, Parsi is right about pornification, but IMO missing an important distinction: Pornification as a set of expectations of oneself and other people is bad because it dictates where ones' comfort zone ought to be in terms of things that are external rather than internal desires. Inasmuch as pornification has allowed people to get comfortable with their own and their partner's kinks, it's a wholesome and delicious thing, like a banana. Having unrealistic expectations is potentially very harmful to ones' self and others, and that's where I am concerned - that people will consider themselves sexually defective if they don't get into the absurd and often degrading acts seen in so much porn. OTOH, having porn around that shows people doing things you are into is an excellent way to probe the possibility that your partner might indulge your kinks, which opens the door to more fulfilling sex, which is IMO a good thing.
I have no serious response to 262, but if there isn't a band called "the Pygmy Love Apes", there damn well should be.
Hey, M. Leblanc's getting married!
268: The fictional band in the comic Love and Rockets was called "Ape Sex." A few years ago I realized that ordinary sex between human beings counts as ape sex.
269: She didn't mention it here. She's dead to me.
Extraordinary sex between human beings counts as great ape sex.
267
For a sample size of N, the largest (and smallest) cock in the sample should scale as N*log(N). ...
?.
and you need a bonar array to do proper triangulation
In the future, every aspect of society will be overseen by such arrays.
Yes, we'll once again be governed by Bonar Law.
Sex between Skip Spense and Bob Mosley would count as Grape ape sex. (We will not discuss Begley-Begley sex.)
272: Whereas extraordinary sex between queens only counts as great bee sex.
Sex between Richard Hall, Skip Spence, Bob Mosley, Peter Lewis, Jerry Miller, and Don Stevenson would be moby.
For a sample size of N, the largest (and smallest) cock in the sample should scale as N*log(N).
Um. Sanity check, dude.
Individual cocks, no matter how large they be, can only scale so much, essear.
If your cock has scales, you should see a doctor.
I don't understand what 280 is addressed to, neb. I'm telling togolosh his claim doesn't make sense.
I couldn't remember who made the original claim. I guess it was togolosh.
If your cock has scales, you should see a doctor.
If you're not colorblind, you should see the number 72.
JBS Haldane's On Being The Right Size is short and easy to digest. The distribution leading to togolosh's extreme value formulation does not apply to the tails, I think.
Since vascular structure and blood flow are relevant factors, bicyclists and swimmers should be of particular interest.
Right. Togolosh's cock-measuring isn't going well because he isn't thinking properly about the tail.
282: Of all the nonsensical things that have been said on Unfogged, this is the one that compels you to write the commenter?
My sense of the impending pornified doom is that electronic media is vastly pornified and young people's lives are not. This impression comes from a very lively New Year's Day discussion in which six of us declared impending pornified doom among the Youts and two of us who were teachers of working-to-middle class college students felt they had some pretty good evidence that the kids were screwed up about sex in more or less the same way that we had been, pre-internet porn.
285
JBS Haldane's On Being The Right Size is short and easy to digest. The distribution leading to togolosh's extreme value formulation does not apply to the tails, I think.
So we are in agreement that togolosh wasn't making sense?
287
Of all the nonsensical things that have been said on Unfogged, this is the one that compels you to write the commenter?
The math police are ever vigilant.
W/r/t Brazilians, as mentioned above in 197 by Parsimon, no, I'm going to have to disagree that it has anything to do with porn and the kinkification of sex. I worked at a spa that, although mainly advertised as a massage/beauty place, did about half of their total income in Brazilians. The waxers were the busiest people in the place, and never went without an appointment all day long, while the aestheticians and masseurs wandered around with nothing to do quite regularly. I've talked to a lot of women getting it done.
These are not porny women.
About a quarter of them were models. (It's a very upscale Manhattan place.) The rest were people who seem really afraid of feeling unclean. I talked at length to the girls I worked with about Brazilians and why they did it. They went on at length about how disgusting hair is. Not one talked about increased sexual stimulation, or their boyfriends wanting some porny thing. In fact, boyfriends never really came up, except when they went on to say how they wish they could get their men to wax their arms and chests, because "hair is disgusting." One woman shuddered, drawing her hands down her (waxed) arms and saying, "I cannot stand to be with a man with... hair. It's like being in love with a gorilla."
I brought up the sex thing, the porn thing, the looking childish thing, etc., and they had no idea what I was talking about and said I have a dirty mind, that it's about feeling "clean."
I'm sure back in the traces of something somewhere there is something about porn, but I wonder if the direction of the causal arrow points the other way. What if Brazilians in porn emerged not just for the better visibility of parts, but also because of an increased squeamishness about the animality of fucking?
Did they shave their heads too? If not, they were just totally unhygienic.
at length at length at length.
Anyhow, what for me (I did it four or five times) was a really uncomfortably freaky experience, going into a room with a woman who put me in about ten different kama sutra positions to do weird stuff to my most intimate parts, seems to be a completely unsexual thing for the women who do it regularly. I was getting a pedicure a few months ago and was astonished as a woman went into the waxing room for her Brazilian and talked on her cell to a friend the whole time.
Hey, M. Leblanc's getting married!
Congratulations M. Leblanc-at-the-linked-post!
It is a sweet post, and I'm fun to read that she is that happy.
Hopefully she will stop by here and say hello.
Not related to the actual discussion, but AWB--Have you ever had a bikini wax done? I've thought of doing it just so that I can wear a bathing suit without showing. Shaving is problematic. I've had my eyebrows waxed, but nothing else. I think that it would hurt a lot.
I think your spa was supposed to be really famous for its pedicures. Their products smell nice, but the ingredients aren't particularly high quality.
293: I asked that, too. I also suggested that it's very weird to say you're attracted to human men and be repulsed by any body hair. I was definitely the only person there who felt that way, and was accused of being way too "sexual" and dirty-minded.
296: I've done it. If I have a recommendation, it's to get a regular bikini wax, not a Brazilian. If you do get a Brazilian, ask them to leave the "landing strip." I learned the hard way that the landing strip is not primarily for cosmetic purposes. That square inch of skin is the most sensitive on the entire body, and although the rest of the pain is tolerable, that one part is truly brutally painful. The hair there is also a lot more deeply entrenched and has to be waxed several times to get it all and you will want to die. Not worth it.
increased squeamishness about the animality of fucking
I don't think that's really a driving factor in porn. The body hair thing has been discussed here before, and people were downright incredulous when I said I didn't think genital depilation had anything to do with the fetishization of childhood (for most people, anyhow). You probably can't find a single model, male or female, in any fashion magazine who has any body hair anywhere except on their heads. These things go in cycles.
I'm not interested in a Brazilian at all, just cleaning up. I really wish that someone could come up with a new depilatory cream that wasn't so nasty.
I'm not interested in a Brazilian at all, just cleaning up. I really wish that someone could come up with a new depilatory cream that wasn't so nasty.
I'm not interested in a Brazilian at all, just cleaning up. I really wish that someone could come up with a new depilatory cream that wasn't so nasty.
Sorry, I have a hard time controlling the pad on the MacBook.
apo, there are some articles that say that a little bit is coming back. That's what salon says after consulting Playboy. In the real world it's about saving money during a recession.
God, if I were 25 again I would be so fucked (or not). I make the guy in apo's link look totally smooth skinned.
282: Of all the nonsensical things that have been said on Unfogged, this is the one that compels you to write the commenter?
Shearer pwned my answer to this. And criticized togolosh first. I guess he's the real math police. Parenthetical should be pleased that there's one around. (Link to earlier post omitted because Google doesn't find it. Maybe it was the post neb deleted?)
...did about half of their total income in Brazilians.
That's one hell of a tax dodge.
286: I may be misremembering my stats, but isn't it true that for a normally distributed variable the probability of sampling a value in a given interval scales as n*log(n)? It's quite likely that I am off here, as I haven't dealt with normal distributions since the middle of grad school.
Anyway, the point is, "log" is funny in the cock context, and you people are ruining my fun with all your rigour and shit.
Pony up people! what is the scaling for expected maximum cock size with sample size?
The thing about body hair (sez I) is that it traps odors. In the case of sex with someone you're really into, that's a positive thing. It's how the pheromones get you. But then, I learned everything I know about sex from the 1970s Joy of Sex, which went on and on about armpit hair, so.
I shaved my chest once for a drag show. God, that was a mistake. Wax it or cover it up, people.
We've moved on to tails, togolosh. Specifically, the liberal MSM's coverup of the surgical removal of Barack Obama's vestigial tail.
311:
I once attended a wedding where the bride in a fit of last minute freak out decided that the groomsmen must all be clean shaven. There were five of them, and only one of them already was (most of the grooms side the guys there would colloquially be called 'bikers' I guess, though not all of them would have agreed ... lots of beards)
So she decides this 40 min before the ceremony when most everyone has already gone to the venue. After a search, a single razor was turned up, without any refill blades..... oh, and later another that was already dull.
They did it. Drew straws for order of shaving. I think only the first guys face didn't look like it had been attacked by a squirrel. But there they were, all lined up in the ceremony with smiling (only a little begrudgingly), clean shaven, only bleeding a little bit faces. Classic.
And here is the answer to your questions about penis size distribution. Surprisingly safe for work.
313: You're kinda anti-big-wedding, aren't you, soup? I think I understand now.
286
I may be misremembering my stats, but isn't it true that for a normally distributed variable the probability of sampling a value in a given interval scales as n*log(n)? It's quite likely that I am off here, as I haven't dealt with normal distributions since the middle of grad school.
This is not true.
Pony up people! what is the scaling for expected maximum cock size with sample size?
I believe that if you assume a normal distribution and you have n observations the expected observed maximum will be c*sqrt(ln(n)) standard deviations above the mean.
316: Sounds plausible, but the cock joke imperative requires you to pronounce it as "see squirt long 'un"
That would have worked better if I could typespell. Nobody is perfect (but damn, I'm close).
Parenthetical should be pleased that there's one around.
I am pleased! I am also pleased that if I sit in the backyard of my grandparents' house, I can effortlessly pirate wireless, and that the weather is lovely and the cicadas are chirping. A good soundtrack to Unfogged.
