how the situation might have been diffused if different choices had been made over the past few days
You're imagining the garb-wearers wanted to diffuse the situation?
This reminds me of a story a guy told me of walking in on his four-year-old son in the living room with a wild look in his eyes, spilling paint everywhere. He yells, "What are you doing?" The kid looks up and grins and says, "I'm making bad choices, daddy."
There seems to be an inevitability to each generation punishing the next for being a bunch of snot-nosed little punks, when such punishments had little to no ameliorative effect on the punishing generation in their turn.
1, and the OP: I am Wolfson, but surely you mean defused?
Seriously, school administration. Don't feed these people's already outsized sense of martyrdom.
3: I learned it from watching you, Heebie!
You're imagining the garb-wearers wanted to diffuse the situation?
What? No, of course not. You subject them to a long boring discussion where the only right answer is that the flag garb was intentionally provacative and thus a bad decision, and wait it out until they get sick of the conversation and cooperate by agreeing.
Uh, 5 should be in quotation marks or something.
You know, for years I read "defuse" as though it had the meaning of "diffuse", and thus I always think "You want the word that means spread the tension thinner and thinner until it dissipates entirely. Diffuse!" But yes, defuse.
The kid looks up and grins and says, "I'm making bad choices, daddy."
Recently my friend took his four year old to Home Depot. As they entered, the kid sternly told his dad, "I want you to know I plan on touching everything".
one of those little stories that people forward all over the place, with the indignant conservative headline of "Punished! For being patriotic!" Which is how it showed up in my Facebook stream
This is also how I heard about it, and from normally sane people, too. (That is, sure the one wingnut acquaintance posted it, but so did several usually pretty laid-back non-political types, with messages like, "This is what our country has come to!" Ack.)
Yeah, that's how nightmares like "hone in on" get entrenched. I keep many peeves as pets.
I wonder whether the school was (a) genuinely or (b) reasonably afraid of fights breaking out -- was this an attempt to curtail violence, or simply stupid micromanagement?
11: It really doesn't matter from the perspective of those with the "Punished for loving the USA" view. If the school was reasonably afraid, the problem is poorly assimilated immigrants. If the school was stupidly micromanaging, the problem is that they stupidly micromanaged against U.S. flags, not all flags.
Yeah, I'm not seeing it as a good decision regardless of the circumstances, I suppose.
Also: heebie, you linked to Breitbart? Presumably, that was just the link you saw from FB, but I wouldn't encourage any more traffic to his website(s). Not to get all boringly lecture-y and stuff.
Which is how it showed up in my Facebook stream
Oh good, another reason not to join facebook.
Anyway, I remember the mindset well from my high school days. I once got a picture of a whole bus full of us giving the finger to the camera. I put it on the front page of the school paper. It got past the journalism teacher and the administrator, but the printer caught it.
4 is so right. School administration was so wrong.
Whatever happened to the right to wear douchey american flag jams and/or bandannas shall not be abridged?
Presumably, that was just the link you saw from FB, but I wouldn't encourage any more traffic to his website(s)
It was. Probably I should have hunted for a different link. Never actually heard of that site before, though. It looks crappy, now that I poke around.
I seem to remember a time when it was considered disrespectful to wear a US flag as clothing, along with burning it, letting it touch the ground, or not folding it into a triangle. Was that everywhere, or did I just happen to grow up in a particularly flag-worshiping town?
Don't feed these people's already outsized sense of martyrdom.
Wolverines!
("Let's run this kid up the flagpole and see who salutes.")
I changed the link to just go straight to the local TV station clip.
Breitbart is the one who bankrolled the ACORN pimp guy.
When I was in school, the kerfuffle was over Big Johnson T-shirts, and whether it would only encourage them if they were forced to turn them inside out. But what if you really need to express "LIQUOR IN FRONT poker in the rear"? Can we ever be free if we cannot?
Sadly, I have gone back to my hometown and seen those same guys at the malls with their wives and babies, still wearing the same Big Johnson T-shirts. It's a look that says, "Fine, I will go to the mall with you, on one condition."
It's a look that says, "Fine, I will go to the mall with you, on one condition."
I'll go if you let me strike a blow against our consumption-based, mass market society by wearing something so stupid that people cannot help but question the link between material progress and improvement of the human condition.
I got driven home from high school by the assistant principal once because of the giant holes in the ass of my favorite jeans that (gasp) allowed people to see the plaid boxer shorts underneath. He assured me it had nothing to do with the big SANDINISTA running in block letters down the one leg. Now the kids just wear their jeans belted below their asses altogether, and they don't know how good they have it. No appreciation for us trailblazers that broke that denim ceiling.
that broke that denim ceiling.
that denim trapdoor.
19. In the 1960s I can remember American pontificators giving British designers a hard time for putting the Union flag on shopping bags, let alone clothing. I don't know when the change happened, probably whenever it became easier to annoy liberals by wearing flags than by refusing to.
19: Wow! You must be as old as I am!
Anyway, the school admin is in an impossible situation. Do something about provocation and they get blasted for abridging this, that, and the other freedom.
Do nothing and they get blamed when the kid with the brilliant future even though s/he was brought up in poverty in a home where no one spoke anything but some dialect no expert can recognize is stabbed while innocently walking from school to a stint helping at the old folks home.
I very clearly remember being shocked in the summer of 2002 when I saw someone I knew driving with a flag sticking out of her car window. I thought it was really obviously disrespectful.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2010/may/06/greece-protest?picture=362290874
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19: The Flag Code prohibits wearing the flag as clothing. I'm not sure if that only applies to an actual flag suitable for flying from a flag pole or to all representations of the flag.
These guys were just being assholes in the same way as teabaggers who start bellowing the pledge of allegiance at Town Hall meetings as a way of being disruptive by asserting superior patriotism.
Whatever the other considerations, I don't think that trying not to outrage the reactionaries should feature much. They would be precisely as happy to spread outrage based on total lies and invention - facts don't count for them.
Was that everywhere, or did I just happen to grow up in a particularly flag-worshiping town?
I think it changed when County Seat started selling country flag clothing a la Garth Brooks. It's not disrespectful if you're country, see.
31: This seems different to me. These kids aren't actually interrupting anybody and, though there was deliberate intent to piss-off somebody, restrictions on that kind of stuff generally have to be content neutral. They were being assholes and they have a legitimate complain. This is hardly a rare combination free speechish cases.
Did the post title make you guys think of the "Red White and Blue, This One's For You. If you were here I would hump on you" song? That's what I was hoping for.
Actually, I'd blame Ralph Lauren. I remember American flag motifs on RL stuff in the eighties, with no real political import other than sort of implied wholesomeness, and some discussion at the time about "Didn't everyone get mad when Abbie Hoffman did that?" And then once the taboo was off, people wore politically weighted flag clothes to be patriotic.
I might be wrong about it being RL specificially, but I think I'm right about the eighties, and fashion rather than politics, as what broke the taboo.
Was that everywhere, or did I just happen to grow up in a particularly flag-worshiping town?
I learned those protocols, in addition to the bit about displaying the flag with the blue part always in the top-left corner (from the viewer's perspective).
I also learned that you had to burn a flag if it touched the ground, and when I was like 6, I recall, one Fourth of July, secretly wanting to see a flag burn and thus letting my parade flag "accidentally" hit the ground. I was super disappointed when my mom said we didn't really have to burn it.
"No. It's cool, Mom. We should. It's the rules. You told me!"
Reminds me of the classic discussion in "Generation Kill":
"Angry American. Get Some? Don't Tread On Me? Let's Roll? Fuck, man, I hate that fucking cheesy moto bullshit... It's like that song, 'When stars and stripes and eagles fly'? Fuck, man, eagles fly in Canada too. When we got back from Afghanistan my mom tried to play me that song and I was all, 'Fuck no, Mom, I'm a Marine. I don't need to fly a little fucking patriotic flag on my car to show that I'm patriotic."
Massive environmental disaster in the Gulf, hung parliamentary election in the UK, Greece on fire, Euro about to collapse, stock market in chaos, Fin-Reg being debated in the Senate, Nashville under water... I just walked past a TV turned to Fox News, and this stupid T-shirt thing was the focus of their outraged coverage.
19 - Yes! I still object to wearing the flag for adornment. Of course, I object to wearing most everything that carries a message, and find myself limited to flowery prints (I support flowers!) and bike-themed cuteness. Yes, I do remember that, and I vaguely think LB has it with the Ralph Lauren connection.
Also used to be that you weren't supposed to fly the flag in the rain. These days it happens all the friggin' time.
If you leave your cake out in the rain, I hear bad things happen.
Timeline of using the flag in clothing. Looks like LB is right, with Ralph Lauren in 1990. Consequence of the 1989 flag-burning ruling.
Of course, I object to wearing most everything that carries a message,
All my t-shirts, which is what I always wear, carry a message.
The one I have on is American Red Cross. I have a lot of bloodbank and dogpark shirts, and a couple radio stations. A few with my company logo. I have a lot, but I go thru 4-5 a day.
Free clothes! And why not promote a cause?
Flag-related anecdote:
Shortly after the September 11th attacks, my school's College Republicans elected a new governing board, and their photo, with the newly elected officers standing in front of the flag, was published on the school paper's front page. However, the flag was displayed incorrectly, with the blue part in the top-right corner.
The next day the paper published a lettter to the editor from me, where I expressed faux outrage and, citing the US Code regarding flag display, questioned the patriotism of all College Republicans. Which prompted a response letter from the CR's president affirming that they were indeed quite patriotic and shame on me for questioning, and anyhow, it was a photoshop error that flipped the photo around, and did he mention shame on me?
Which is when I realized that the the post-9/11 era was going to be even less fun that I had thought.
Right now my shirt says: "Omnia mihi lingua Graeca sunt." (If you study classics, your mom tends to get nutty with the Wireless catalog.)
40 I don't know when I signed on as evangelist of Fran Lebowitz but I have quoted her twice lately. On clothing with writing on it: "If people don't want to listen to you what makes you think they want to hear from your sweater?"
Yeah, I'm an anarchist, and it really frosts my goat when I see some dipshit so-called "patriot" flying the flag in the rain, or unilluminated at night, or flying a flag that's been reduced to tattered shreds from weathering. My grandfather didn't lie about his age to get into the National Guard, then serve in WW2 and Korea so that some peckerhead could puff himself up while disrespecting the flag, goddammit.
Also, as Abbie Hoffman pointed out at the time, he was wearing an American flag-motif shirt as were on sale blocks from the studio.
Really? Funny, I remember pictures that looked like someone had cut up an actual flag and tailored a shirt out if it. I wonder if I'm confabulating.
That's the picture I remember, but on looking at it now it does look professionally made.
"If people don't want to listen to you what makes you think they want to hear from your sweater?"
OTOH, if no one's listening to me, then they probably aren't listening to my sweater, either.
Sweaters should be judged by what is underneath them, not what is written on them.
If you want to destroy someone's sweater, you hold this thread while that person walks away. I thought everyone knew this information.
Yeah, I saw something on Fox News about this as I was in the cafeteria an hour ago getting lunch. My first thought was "Was it because of the Flag Code?". If the school administration didn't cite the code in their decision, they deserve whatever they get.
To the extent that I care about this at all, it's mostly the same old "but what about the hypocricy!!!" thing. But I also have some genuine resentment or indignation or whatever at people who seem to actually believe that the flag is still a meaningful symbol even if displayed any random way. Forgive the analogy, but it's sort of like if a Christian wore the WWJD initialism without knowing what words it stands for.
Liberals shouldn't get all pissy about the display of the american flag. Even on May 5. No need to give up the most important symbol of the country to conservatives.
The kids were assholes, but free speech is for assholes. It isn't really free speech if it doesn't piss people off.
It isn't really free speech if it doesn't piss people off.
I love this. Pretty much an absolute, always and everywhere.
55, 56: I'd suggest that if assholes don't have the right to speak freely, then we don't have free speech, but that any individual or group is not required to be an asshole before they can be said to be speaking freely.
You can have my free speech when you pry it from my cold, puckered asshole.
Or something.
Just to clarify, I think people should wear whatever they want to school, even if they have to shoplift it. Also, I had a little 3" x 5" US flag with a hole burnt in it on the back of my jean jacket for awhile in high school. But I wasn't being patriotic, you see.
So yeah, beer T-shirts, American flags, burnt American flags, T-shirts celebrating the male reproductive organs, T-shirts celebrating the female reproductive organs, bin-liner outfits, hats -- anything goes as far as I'm concerned. Fighting with the administration about their stupid restrictions on free speech and free apparel is half the fun of going to high school, after all.
59: When CA's parents were moving out of their house and we had to paw through all the stuff in his bedroom to see what he wanted to keep, we found an American flag -- partially burnt -- with "NO WAR NO KKK NO FASCIST USA" written on it in sharpie. We kept it.
You're free to speak and the others are free to conclude that your speech demonstrates that you're an asshole (and tell you so). Simple.
90%+ of human interaction is ritualistic and constrained by social convention or fear of confrontation. Manipulative or controlling in intent can be neither liberating or self-liberating in substance. A lot of socialization is designed to disguise chains as freedom or love. "I'm telling you this for your own good."
Will you love me forever?
Baby, let me sleep on it.
I gotta know right now.
I'll give you my answer in the morning.
Liberation is always and everywhere alienating.
Groups can neither speak or be liberated.
"Freeing" speech will always feel confrontational.
Liberation is always and everywhere alienating.
So is being a dick because you enjoy being a dick. Being a huge ass doesn't make you right any more than it makes you wrong.
All this hard ass/pain in the ass stuff is fine as long as y'all remember you only control your half of the confrontation and the other guy might well be crazier than you are.
It is of course by definition self-liberating to simply STFU and walk away but while perhaps an act of courage and discipline, viewing withdrawal as an expression of kindness or compassion can be an almost ineradicable delusion when you are alone in the desert. A comfort not to be borne by the honest ascetic.
I had to turn off HBO's documentary/docudrama Sergio last night about a third of the way in. I did get thru ten minutes of Power talking, and ten minutes on the re-enactment of the failed rescue, but when the man-himself-n-Iraq came on screen, I fell apart.
... Indisputably, the kids were being assholes.
Of course it is disputable. It seems possible that the kids were making a point, that the school administration is anti-American. And from the reaction it appears they were correct.
that the school administration is anti-American. And from the reaction it appears they were correct.
James, bringing the Neandertal-enhanced logic to the issue.
Another apparent school adminstration overreaction (via Patterico).
A third-grader at Brazos Elementary was given a week's detention for possessing a Jolly Rancher. ...
Why does that school district hate Rancher-Americans?
Jolly Ranchers are old people candy that don't belong in elementary schools.
Candy seems to deprive school authorities of all reason. I may have mentioned that a colleague was actually caned for eating a chocolate bar in school.
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If anyone else downloaded The Mourning After Fame and was disappointed to find that the first track required authorization, here's an unprotected copy of Que Bueno Baila Usted.
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73: a colleague was actually caned for eating a chocolate bar in school.
Having all the parents there at Open House often makes the administrators tense.
Ob punishment trivia that probably everyone but me already knew.
TASERs are named for "Tom Swift Electric Rifle" from a 1911 title in the series.
Then why aren't they TOSERs? "It sounds silly" is probably not a sufficient answer.
The invention was named after the central device in Tom Swift and His Electric Rifle (1911); according to inventor Jack Cover, "an 'A' was added because we got tired of answering the phone 'TSER.'
Wait. I see now. I was confused by the "a colleague" and thought you were talking about a teacher, not somebody who was caned years ago as a student.
Yeah, she's about 40 now,and eats chocolate whenever she damn well feels like it.
What the heck does an American flag have to do with Cinco de Mayo? Now if they had been *French* flags...
Indisputably, the kids were being assholes.
This note seems most appropriately to go in this thread:
Current legend on the revolving-message placard in front of the corner church a couple of blocks away:
"If you can read this, thank your pro-life mom. Happy Mother's Day!"
Grr.
But my mom is pro-choice! What to do?
To be honest parsi, there are a bunch of "christian" organisations in the US whose outlook is at best Franquista. Yes, it's annoying, but you have free speech, so what can you do? I simply don't understand the ideological timidity of the left these days, though. Anywhere.
85: That is a problem, isn't it?
I swear, I stewed over that message, somewhat in the background, for two days, and found myself last night coming back to it again: You church people are stupid, here. For "pro-life" substitute "anti-choice." Eh? Willing to do that on your sign?
It is rather unfunny.
Apparently we're losing the battle to rewrite the abortion debate in terms of *choice*. Pro-choice, anti-choice.
In a similar vein, check out this FB status posted by someone I went to high school with:
I have been thinking about the baby that was supposed to be born into our family this month. Unfortunately it's life was stolen way by it's own parents. Abortion affects the WHOLE family. I miss the baby even though I never had a chance to meet face to face. I just cannot let go of the thought that what if my parent...
I just hope those life-stealing parents aren't also her FB friends.
Oh, and the status has several comments offering condolences. WTF, people?
The anecdata confirming my decision to to join facebook keep on stacking up.
I've been thinking about the baby I could be creating right now. I mean, sure, I had a vasectomy, but there something like is a 1 in 100,000 chance that it was done wrong. Right now, there is a baby that could come into existence, if only I were having sex, rather than sitting alone in the house. Maybe, twenty years from now, when that child is all grown up, he or she would look at a Church sign on Father's day, and thank me for my relentless sexual activity.
Maybe, twenty years from now, when that child is all grown up, he or she would look at a Church sign on Father's day, and thank me for my relentless sexual activity.
As the product of a vasectomy, I'll try to remember to do this on Father's Day.
I'm actually surprised that I didn't end up being aborted, but I suspect it was because I was discovered late and thus there wasn't enough time to figure out what to do. Or maybe not; whenever I tell my mom how awesome she is on Mother's Day she always thanks me for making her a mom. Even if I did foil her plans to go to graduate school and become a world-famous geneticist.
if only I were having sex, rather than sitting alone in the house.
If only!
You people with fb friends with absurd political views make me sad.
(Um, just in case anyone thinks that my mom actually says 93 last to me, that is not the case in the least. I've just put two and two together in retrospect.)
You people with fb friends with absurd political views make me sad.
We can't all have gone to high school in liberal coastal enclaves.
I simply don't understand the ideological timidity of the left these days, though. Anywhere.
Nor do I. It's worth trying to understand.
They have free speech, yes, of course, and one doesn't in any way want to take it away from them. One also -- I also -- would like to point out to them that people can hear them, and their freely exercised right to free speech has an effect on the community.
In the case of that church, in my dreams I'd ask to speak to the proprietors of the church and communicate to them that they're alienating some not insignificant segment of the surrounding community. I'd then ask them whether that is their intent.
For Blume's FB high school acquaintance, she might drop a comment to the effect that she wonders whether the family members in question are also FB friends who might be reading their comment about the abortion, for then lo, said family members might be quite hurt and alienated.
Neither I nor Blume is likely to do this -- maybe because maintaining a pretense to politeness is paramount in American society? I'm not sure -- but something like that kind of talking back, to the church or to the FB acquaintance, seems one obvious way in which we're declining to challenge this sort of thing.
96: That's one of the things that always gets me about this liberal coastal elite thing; I grew up as close to the beach as you can get and yet! Most of my high school friends are fairly conservative (if not insane). My home county also routinely goes red. Maybe we're the exception that proves the rule.
The enclave by the coast where I went to high school is not notably liberal.
Neither I nor Blume is likely to do this -- maybe because maintaining a pretense to politeness is paramount in American society?
I'm FB friends with someone I don't know who added me because she saw that I was friends with someone we do know in common (I asked her about this and she gave some ridiculous response) who once posted a link to some story about Obama doing something fairly trivial and said that something connected with it was why he deserved the Nobel Peace Prize. I left a comment asking about dropping bombs on peeps and discovered somewhat later that the whole post was deleted.
We can't all have gone to high school in liberal coastal enclaves.
Maybe I should be surprised that I have only two known Republicans among my fb friends, but anyway, one never posts updates, and the other (a relative) I eliminated with the Hide button. Some say that's living in an echo chamber, but I honestly don't see why I should want people like that getting all up in my grill with their bullshit.
Blume, that is unbelievable. I don't think I could resist commenting. Maybe I shouldn't check my own FB feed and see if I've got an opportunity.
If facebook comments allowed the strike function, I'd be tempted to reply to the comment in 88 with an edit for cases of miscarriage.
I have been thinking about the baby that was supposed to be born into our family this month. Unfortunately it's life was stolen way byGod is a baby-killer.it's own parentsGod.AbortionMiscarriage affects the WHOLE family. I miss the baby even though I never had a chance to meet face to face. I just cannot let go of the thought that what ifmy parentGod...
99: Famously not liberal, indeed.
but I honestly don't see why I should want people like that getting all up in my grill with their bullshit
On Facebook? Hell, no. When they're on the placard at the busy intersection two blocks away, though, it's hard to hit "ignore."
This is the second time that church has pissed me off in the last year. I may need to speak to them.
Use "^W" to indicate backwards deletion of a word, "^H" to indicate deletion of a chac^Hracter. Thus:
I have been thinking about the baby that was supposed to be born into our family this month. Unfortunately it'^Hs life was stolen [a]way by it's own parents^W^W^WGod. Abortion^WMiscarriage affects the WHOLE family. [etc.]
106: Do non-geeks understand that?
Well, no, but it's not that hard to figure out. I myself figured it out without instruction in my first heady days on alt.religion.kibology! Arguably I was already a geek at that point.
97: I mostly try to avoid engaging in those kind of FB conversations because the kind of statuses that would start them are almost always from people I haven't seen in years and in whose lives I am not involved. Person who left (and there are a lot fewer of them than you'd imagine) swoops in and makes judgment? Not a dynamic I need to set up.
I spent more than a decade seeing these people every day, so it's fun to see pictures of their kids or find out what kind of work they're doing now or whatever. But they do eventually end up hidden from my news feed.
Though I did recently have a successful engagement: I countered an 'OMG Obama's canceling the National Day of Prayer' status with links to snopes and a few other articles. My FB friend actually posted a retraction and an avowal not to believe everything she gets in email forwards.
Facebook participants mostly don't understand snark or irony in the form of strike-outs, anyway. You pretty much have to write calm, reasonably-toned and plainly spelled out protests or interrogatives.
110: Cool. I understand the avoidance of foolery from long-distant friends on Facebook.
I have one FB friend, a wonderful woman, who twice a year or so decides to question some quackery with dogged determination. I admire her. It takes a lot out of her, though. Still, it's fantastic that she's there doing it. Stubborn, great woman; she obviously has a hard time not curling her lip, and remaining civil.
in my first heady days on alt.religion.kibology! Arguably I was already a geek at that point.
Oh no no. Most of the people on the in-joke heavy parts of usenet were normal, well adjusted, middle-of-the-road, beer and football types.
OFE! Nobody is suggesting you join Facebook!
115: But we are all very interested in watching him make the decision. When he changes his mind later, we will taunt him.
We will not. Look, I wouldn't be on there but for the fact that one very dear friend of mine has chosen to move all his online communications there, and frankly told me so: find me on Facebook, 'cause that's where I ever say anything.
Boo. Since then a number of college friends have become FB friends, and no, not many of them/us say anything there, but I suppose it's a way to have access to them should something of notable import occur. It's a resource in the background. Not in the foreground.
The church in our neighborhood had a placard up that said "Wives, Obey Your Husbands". Fortunately that didn't last too long. More recently I was cruising around on a back road around here and saw one about how women should cover their hair, with a reference to Corinthians 11.
A friend told me he was resisting the urge to go to an upcoming Sarah Palin speaking event in Richmond with a sign referring to some verse from Matthew (a la this dude) that instructs men not to listen to women or something. It was an odd conversation.
The suspicion that I will eventually go postal on a f@ebook connection is part of the reason I don't use my surname there (I use my e-mail handle instead). So far, however, my circle hasn't been too far removed from my own opinion--which I sometimes see as a mixed blessing, though it's no doubt a boon to my blood pressure.
Rah!
I apologize for the lack of actual content in this message. It is not unlike a thumbs-up on FB. Sometimes a person just has to say, you know: Rah!
Rah is a delightful person to meet at a bar, I can tell you that much.
I have way too much fun signing things that way. Also I tend to get caught up in Stuff and ignore unfogged for weeks on end, but tonight I got stuck at work in front of an open Internet without much to do. So: Mixes FTMFW! Also: I should have known to come here for some high-end bitching about f@ebook*!
*(It's only a little in jest that I always google-proof the name--I suspect the TOS will eventually allow them to send hit squads after anyone who disses them anywhere on the Internet.)
*(It's only a little in jest that I always google-proof the name--I suspect the TOS will eventually allow them to send hit squads after anyone who disses them anywhere on the Internet.)
I certainly hope your prediction for the Troll of Sorrow's future powers is overly exuberant.
I wondered about the google-proofing of f@cebook. I can't imagine remarks here about it could be singled out. Either way, nice to see you.
