You're worried what strangers at the airport will think? Don't be such a pussy.
I'll admit to an irrational bias against Apple consumer electronics. I've been tempted by an iPad for about a year and part of what restrains me is that I just find Apple tiresome.
To the OP, I am also sure that there are various soaps/lotions/etc. . . that I would buy if they didn't have such aggressively feminized packaging, but no specific examples leap to mind.
40oz bottles of beer.
And music with really effete-sounding male singers. I can't get over thinking that the singer is envisioning an all-female audience. For example
In a perfect world, I'd buy all my underwear from Victoria's Secret, but their marketing skews so heavily to the ladies that I don't feel comfortable there. It's bullshit.
How do you know it is intended for pubic? I couldn't tell.
I use men's deodorant because I like the way it smells. (it says unscented, but it isn't really)
How do you know it is intended for pubic?
It's not so clear from the web page, but the various circumlocutions on the package left little doubt about its intended use.
I'm finding the post weird; are there men out there actually surprised to find themselves very resistant to being seen to use anything obviously gendered feminine? Looking at the frequency with which I see men use visibly feminine-gendered stuff (never, unless they're in drag or making some kind of a point about gender), I'd think this would be kind of a given. Deplorable, maybe, indicative of problematic gender attitudes, you could argue that, but the idea that a man in today's US would be surprised to note that, despite his generally liberal attitudes, he's still reluctant to use the pink shaving cream, is odd.
My brother had a pink backpack in high school, mainly (I think) to demonstrate what an iconoclast he was.
5.2: Do you really enjoy this kind of music? Or is it that you think you might enjoy this music if it didn't cause you so much gender-anxiety?
And to the OP -- Knecht, do you not buy "feminine"
products for Fleur at the drug store or supermarket?
I got mocked recently for liking woo-woo herbal teas that on the packaging make all kinds of unrealistic promises about their health benefits. There isn't really a widely available brand of strongly-flavored ginger tea (that isn't lemon-ginger or orange-ginger) that doesn't make some sort of spurious claim about its digestive properties--and I don't really mind the yogic-wisdom quotes on the teabags, not so much.
All shaving cream is girly.
I don't wear dresses. It's not a sign that I think less of women.
It turns out that I am reluctant to dress Jane in whole outfits that I feel really read as BOY BOY BOY THIS HERE IS A BOY (which incidentally includes all kinds of little details of color and cut I wouldn't have thought would seem quite as gendered as it does), though that's partly because she looks so good in dresses.
would seem quite as gendered as it does
As they do, that is.
There are low-calorie versions of things that I won't buy because I can't stand to identify myself with the horrible portrayals of the women in the commercials.
As in, I don't want someone else to see me holding the lo-cal product because it calls to mind a certain stereotype. Not because I'm boycotting or being noble.
(which incidentally includes all kinds of little details of color and cut I wouldn't have thought would seem quite as gendered as it does)
Isn't that the truth. Nothing exposes quite how much you know about the exact parameters of what is gender-conventional as dressing a little kid. There were all sorts of clothes that I thought were genderless when Sally was wearing them, and then I tried handing them down to Newt and the tiny feminine details suddenly became terribly apparent.
Hm. I certainly don't let that stop me from having a can of Diet Coke in public, though I will have Coke Zero if that's available. I feel sure there's something like this, though.
I'll drink diet cokes, no problem. But if I'm buying some sort of breakfast bar to keep at the office, I will only buy hippie-themed, and not dieting-themed, even if they were otherwise indistinguishable.
Pretty much any food that makes a health claim on the packaging -- low cal, low fat, whatever the hell pomegranate juice is claiming about itself -- I won't buy for a combination of thinking it will taste foul and not wanting to feel like a sucker. There's an exception for breakfast cereal, which I don't really eat myself but I'll buy even if it's nattering on about being high fiber and vitamin enriched, and another exception for mostly unprocessed food like oatmeal or actual yogurt.
I certainly don't let that stop me from having a can of Diet Coke in public, though I will have Coke Zero if that's available.
Interestingly, diet sodas are marketed in a much more gender-neutral fashion in the U.S. than in the rest of the world. Overseas, Coke Zero was introduced as the low-calorie beverage that you can drink without feeling like a girly-man. In many markets, "Coke Light" is marketed exclusively to women, and waiters look askance at men who order it.
Pomegranate juice goes well with vodka.
There isn't really a widely available brand of strongly-flavored ginger tea (that isn't lemon-ginger or orange-ginger)
I've started just using dried ginger straight, and filtering with my teeth. It's less convenient than using a tea bag, but does produce a strong ginger flavor (I suppose, given the thread, this will come across as overtly masculine behavior . . .)
It's not so clear from the web page, but the various circumlocutions on the package left little doubt about its intended use.
Does it make reference to the world's smallest violin?
p.s. did you know that you all shamed me into using shaving cream and now I use shaving cream? It is true.
Second-guessing one's manliness will give you a net zero, Nick.
I haven't done it, but a microplane on fresh ginger gets you mush. If you had a microplane and some ginger root, I bet grating a teaspoon would hardly take longer than getting the teabag out, and would make some pretty powerful tea in a cup of hot water.
Both Coke Zero and Diet Coke are disgusting. Occasionally, I'll drink Diet Coke with lime (available at select CVSs and 7-11s) for the lime. I'd rather have regular Coke and lime, though.
I drink beer and (very) occasionally bourbon and scotch. And red wine. Anything else is too fussy for a macho guy like me.
All Coke is girly.
What is wrong with you people?
Huh, with two jr. high aged daughters and wife plus shopping at Costco for most things I just end up using whatever girly stuff's laying around for deodorant, body wash/soap, etc. Perhaps not the manliest thing ever to go around arresting people while smelling of pomegranate and lemon verbena.
Oh, I know. I've recently been at some everyone-else-female gatherings and was pretty vehement about having beer rather than fruity mixed drinks - which I have enjoyed on other occasions.
30: I do this a lot! Microplane some ginger, toss in a couple tiny dried Thai peppers (sometimes), steep in pot. Bracing!
I'm too cheap butch to use a microplane.
(Okay, okay, I realize that a microplane is probably the cost of two boxes of dried ginger tea. FINE. And sharp objects are totally butch. I am guaranteed to lose a finger in this, aren't I.)
I ordered a recent novel through Amazon and was turned off when it arrived with an Oprah Book club sticker, so I tore off the sticker before taking the book on a flight. I never consider the Oprah stickered books in a bookstore.
(What's that about Mean Joe Green? The guy who drank a Coke, which caused him to take off his shirt and present it to another male?)
Speaking of dried ginger this is absurdly overpriced. 3.6 oz for $25? Even if you subtract out $6-9 for the 6 glass jars that would still be more than $4/oz. The very tasty chopped ginger from the spice shop by my house is around $1.50/oz
(on preview)
Perhaps not the manliest thing ever to go around arresting people while smelling of pomegranate and lemon verbena.
For certain definitions of "manly" that would actually be the manliest thing ever.
37: I spent years looking at people saying microplane microplane microplane and thinking "Yeah, yeah, it's a fucking grater. I have a grater." But then I got one and they really are awesome for anything hard. What it does to Parmesan would make you weep, and ginger is a bitch to grate with a normal grater, and just melts when you stroke it lightly with a microplane (all right, I'm getting carried away here). And they are cheap.
37: I do routinely grate bits of myself into things with it.
I haven't had that problem, because it's so sharp I don't need to use force.
28.last: It does work better with shaving cream. I just use soap when I travel, but it is not as good.
43: I am a bigger spazz than you. For sure.
Microplanes are very nice indeed. I have never lost any skin to one, though.
arresting people while smelling of pomegranate and lemon verbena.
Think of it as bringing a note of luxury into what is otherwise a grim and unpleasant experience.
Now I'm picturing the squad car version of the disco cab from Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown.
what products would you be tempted to buy if you didn't feel distaste for the most visible consumers thereof?
Methamphetamine.
I was kind of embarrassed, about a month after I bought my last pair of glasses, to realize that they were distinctly Tina Fey-esque. Nothing against Tina Fey, but I sort of hate the idea of people thinking I was trying to emulate a particular celebrity.
I refused to buy maternity clothes. And I really ought to have bought some jeans, because at a certain point just buying larger and larger sizes didn't cut it. But I hated the stores that sold them too much and the doe-eyed models gently cradling their bellies.
To #12, I really do like the linked song, but keep having this image of Nick Heyward saying "Oi, wot's this? A bloke likes one of me songs? Bit weird, innit."
Final(?) note on dried ginger. It looks like neither Penzeys nor World Spice merchants have "tea cut" ginger but here it is, offered by a store in Seattle that I am not familiar with.
I refused to buy maternity clothes.
During my oldest sister's first pregnancy towards the end, she just wore a single pair of ratty old tie-dyed leggings every day. It was kinda gross, and yet kinda awesome.
I remain perplexed by this thing called shaving cream. I mean, I know it exists: I've seen the displays and I've seen the price labels.
But it's intended to soften your beard so you can shave it? Try, shower; wash your face with soap while in shower; get out and soap your face again, as though it were still dirty. Then shave.
Smooth as a baby's arse, as we used to say before the meedja decided it was inappropriate.
I remain perplexed by this thing called shaving cream. I mean, I know it exists: I've seen the displays and I've seen the price labels.
But it's intended to soften your beard so you can shave it? Try, shower; wash your face with soap while in shower; get out and soap your face again, as though it were still dirty. Then shave.
Smooth as a baby's arse, as we used to say before the meedja decided it was inappropriate.
49, you should have went with these.
All liquids that aren't alcoholic are girly.
And all alcohol that isn't whiskey is girly.
Am I doing this right, Charley?
57: There must be a hierarchy of girliness within whiskey/whisky. I'm sure Irish is girly, probably Scotch as well. Corn likker, made by moonshiners, that's your only manly fluid.
54, 55: The razor slides more smoothly with shaving cream than that way. Also, far easier to tell where you have already shaved.
Methamphetamine
No doubt. Dealing with tweakers and such all the time has pretty much killed any desire I might have had to try much in the way of hard drugs.(Ketamine still sounds awesome)
You should snort crystal off a knife like a ginger Tuco.
I once bought some tea bags, and when I'd opened them (struggling through all the layers of packaging) I read on it that the tea had been grown using 'best time of the moon' gardening. Fucked if I ever bought that again.
There are a LOT of children's clothes I would never buy because they look trashy.
God, even my drinking is way girly. Pretty much all I drink lately is sauvignon blancs from down under mixed with some orange or grapefruit juice. I can't help it, I'm just so gay it tastes so good.
manly fluid
That one's on page 57 of the "Dimestore Romance Author's Dictionary of Euphemisms"
Ketamine has a certain potential for being no fun at all. My then-boyfriend and I took some from a friend at a club once. It had no effect I could identify on me; he was instantly nonfunctional and frightened and I had to take him home. It's high on his list of experiences he would rather not repeat.
Lagavulin is not girly. Cold Smoke is not girly, and neither is Fresh Bongwater.
Industrial solvents aren't girly.
I've never had it, but I doubt kumys is girly.
This is not an exhaustive list of non-girly liquids. Just disproving a no-black-swans proposition.
Is Fresh Bongwater a commercial product of some sort, or do you just mean fresh bongwater?
Since women are more likely to know how to work the copies, this is a very manly crime.
Lotion/moisturizer. My skin gets dry enough to become uncomfortably itchy almost every winter, but I won't use any sort of lotion on it, because I don't have a vagina. There are lotions now that are specifically marketed towards men, I know, but that's not the sort of man I want to me.
that's not the sort of man I want to me.
dative of possession?
Also: there are certain classes of cocktails that I don't drink, mostly (I tell myself) because there are other cocktails I like better, which is true, but deep down I know at least partly it's because those drinks are considered girly.
Lotion/moisturizer. My skin gets dry enough to become uncomfortably itchy almost every winter, but I won't use any sort of lotion on it, because I don't have a vagina. There are lotions now that are specifically marketed towards men, I know, but that's not the sort of man I want to me.
Vasaline isn't manly enough for you?
the tea had been grown using 'best time of the moon' gardening
Dr. Hauschka products are made from so-called "biodynamically grown" plants. My friend whose homeopathic doctor mother used to import and distribute the line swore that the farmers sang to the plants before harvesting them.
I would laugh and scoff except that I love love love their stuff (which is really expensive and thus out of my reach).
I'm sure Irish is girly, probably Scotch as well.
Glenfiddich/Glenmorangie/Macallan are girly. Islays are not.
I found a shirt in a thrift store that fit me better than any other shirt ever, and the color was perfect for my style too, but it buttoned like a women's shirt. I seriously considered not buying it for that reason, or bringing it to a tailor to get the buttons and buttonholes switched.
75: Biodynamically grown wines are a thing, too.
Vasaline isn't manly enough for you?
No. Moisturizing one's skin is not manly. Just suffering through--that's manly.
Maybe urple needs a doctor to prescribe him something. Severely dry skin can be really uncomfortable.
I crap in the urinal just so I don't have to use something as feminine as a toilet.
I'm confident enough in my manhood that I'll use whatever moisturizer works for me, and drink whatever cocktail I enjoy drinking.
Actually, that's not true. It's more that I know I'm not manly, so what's the point?
Also there's a whole host of mom stereotypes that make me cringe, in the same vein as mom jeans or hair cuts, despite feeling like I ought to know better than to be sexist like that. I can't at the moment think of a product where that's the only thing stopping me, though.
I can think of lots of stereotypes that make me uncomfortable; I just can't think of the desirable product on the other side.
My stepdad bought a keg of Olde Bongwater for my high school graduation party. I don't know if that makes it girly or not.
I really like coffee drinks with a lot of sugar and chocolate in them. Mochas, frappachinos, etc. I don't get them very often partly because it's too expensive, but mostly because I don't want anyone to see me order one and think I'm the kind of person who orders sugary chocolatey coffee drinks.
I've noticed that Aveeno hand/skin stuff has moved into a more neutral position around the regular soaps in some stores. I still end up venturing into the skin care near-cosmetics (that is, not quite in the cosmetics section) sections looking for some anti-acne face wash that I use. It's not 100% effective, but better than regular soaps I've tried.
Polo shirts. Molly pointed out to me that I own dress shirts and t-shirts, but no casual shirts with short sleeves and a collar. She asked if this was on purpose, like some kind of statement, and I said that I suppose it was at one point, but now it is just habit.
Thing is, in my current work situation, there would be many occasions where it would be very practical for me to wear a polo shirt. On these occasions, I generally wear a short sleeve dress shirt, for which Molly mocks me, saying I look like a 60s NASA employee. I suppose I should just buy a shirt with a little icon of a man falling off a shirt or an alligator or something like that, but I just can't make myself do it.
I've not said that there's anything wrong, at all, with drinking a girly drink.
86 -- If your stepfather is involved in anything girly, I don't know about it. When they came up to the house for dinner a couple of weeks ago, he made driving a Mini Cooper seem manly.
89: Heh. You and CA are as one on this. Clearly punk rock reverse snobbery. (He feels the same about braided leather belts, too.)
I was kind of embarrassed, about a month after I bought my last pair of glasses, to realize that they were distinctly Tina Fey-esque. Nothing against Tina Fey, but I sort of hate the idea of people thinking I was trying to emulate a particular celebrity.
I had my round glasses before Harry Potter ever did, the little bastard.
I bought a shirt that was pinker than I expected it to be, and was sort of resistant to wearing it, for a while. Kinda still am resistant, I suppose.
What else? I was humiliated by the ad campaign for the brand of deodorant I use, but I suffered through it.
Food, I'll pretty much eat anything. Oh, wait! I have turned down offered Luna bars, because I don't want to turn into a girl.
I think I turned down some glases because they looked too much like something Ira Glass would wear.
78: I have a couple of coats that fasten that way. I am manly enough not to care.
I wear a polo shirt to work pretty much every day. Not the kind with, like, little pictures on 'em, though. The really, really cheap kind. They're incrementally dressier than t-shirts and don't involve all the hassle of buttons. What's not to like!
89 - I had a polo shirt with a trout (scaled to rider sized) on a bucking bronco. Might that work for you?
Today I had a sandwich at Butterfly Herbs. If there's a less manly place to eat, I don't know about it.
Question for the commentariat: what products do you avoid because you don't identify with the target market? That is, what products would you be tempted to buy if you didn't feel distaste for the most visible consumers thereof?
Well, there's a series of books or two that I enjoy reading, but the covers come across as trashy, pulpish and/or aimed at women. I'd be self-conscious about reading them while on the metro, but I still read them. I'm peripherally aware of lots of gaming stuff like RPGs and curious about some of them and the reputation of the average player doesn't help, but I have enough trouble getting my gang of friends together for a regular or semi-regular thing we all already play as it is. I don't generally use the same shampoo and body wash as my girlfriend, but considering that the stuff I do use has "twilight" in the name, I doubt insufficient manliness is what stops me. (Sure, the product description says "masculine" on it. It still comes from Bath and Body Works and shares the name of the sparkly vampires franchise.)
Anyone who says "None. None whatsoever," I don't believe you.
OK, fine. Would you believe "I can't think of anything about which distaste for the marketing is the only, or even just the biggest, cause?"
I have some internal resistance to buying trendy/expensive/"cool" clothing brands, even if I like a particular item, because I don't want anyone to think I just bought it so I would look cool. I usually (I think) notice myself doing that, though, and then buy it anyway.
Ooh, I totally relate to the shirt issue in 89. The short-sleeve dress shirt NASA look is somewhat countered by the ponytail, but only a little. My co-workers just wear a lot of T-shirts, but I can't bring myself to do that at the office (even if it is *(&)(&*) 80 degrees here in my corner).
There's a restaurant near our house I call the "girl restaurant". They have sharing-size salads and small pizzas with fresh toppings and all the walls are covered with pictures of girls and you can get a nice glass of wine and all the furniture is sort of charmingly mismatched. I mock it, yes, but it hasn't stopped me from eating there.
On these occasions, I generally wear a short sleeve dress shirt, for which Molly mocks me, saying I look like a 60s NASA employee.
What if it's plaid, and brightly colored? Or just sort of generally colorful? Not a polo shirt, because the whole front buttons down, but not an officey dress-shirt.
he made driving abright yellowMini Cooper seem manly
To me, it seems more like a circus trick. I don't really understand how he fits in there.
When I was about 15 pink shirts were the last word in cool for men. What goes around comes around, eventually.
I've never really intuitively understood the small car = feminine stereotype. Small cars are awesome for everybody!
I was humiliated by the ad campaign for the brand of deodorant I use, but I suffered through it.
Sifu smells like Teen Spirit?
Camp shirts, that's the word for the shirts I was thinking of.
107: not humiliated in that direction. I'd be kind of proud of myself if I actually used Teen Spirit.
Oooh, restaurants: I'm a pescetarian. (Started as a halfway step towards vegetarianism, for all the usual good reasons, but after more than a year of living with someone with no interest in giving up meat I doubt I'll go any further than this.) When my girlfriend and I go out she usually gets something like steak and I get either fish or something completely meatless. If the person who brings out the food isn't the person who took the order, then they almost always try to give me the meaty entree and her the more effete one. Heh.
Last night I had to ask the female bartender to take my burger back and replace the fries with the salad that I had requested in their place. That was tough.
It's not enough to make me refuse buying them, but I'm annoyed by those "bookclub" type question that started to appear at the back of (some) trade paperbacks.
I couldn't say whether this is because they are unduly girly or not.
I was humiliated by the ad campaign for the brand of deodorant I use, but I suffered through it.
I wouldn't have figured you for an Axe wearer.
113: still nope. I had a roommate who would combine Axe and Febreeze as a handy all-spray replacement for laundry and showering. I can't imagine intentionally putting that stuff on my body.
Glenmorangie is awesome. I am wearing a pink shirt right now.
When I was a teenager, I consciously did not buy editions of novels that marketed a film adaptation on either or both covers. Then I figured a cheap paperback is a cheap paperback and stopped caring.
My list (the ones I can think of):
Jet Ski -- not that I would ever buy one, but I think it would be fun to ride one, except that I don't want to be the kind of person who rides a jet ski. See also "Four Wheeler".
"Super premium" vodkas (all brands)
Poptarts -- Sometimes I buy two-packs from the vending machine and eat them in secret.
The "Great Lectures" series that's advertised in the Atlantic Monthly and elsewhere
American cars -- What might have once been a rational prejudice is becoming harder and harder to defend.
Short-sleeve dress shirts
Mercedes Benz -- I love the new E-Class, but... no. (N.B. this is not subject to heebie's exclusion in the OP, as we have an equally pricey car that carries less of a "rich asshole" image.)
117: I know, right? Those fucking ads. The stuff works like gangbusters, though.
Chrome Messenger Bags
Coconut Juice
Mike's Hard Lemonade
Miranda July movies
Piña Coladas
Seersucker
Hand-sewn sweaters for pets
A replica Messi jersey
Staying at El Cosmico in Marfa
With feminized products, the issue is that I can't even imagine what it would be like to have a desire to want most of them (sugary drinks excepted).
Though!--the hipster male embrace of shorter, 70s- style shorts has been liberating. So much more comfortable for summer cycling in these parts.
I know that I need to open up more and pay attention to other people, so all of the Oprah advice is basically a nudge in the right direction for me. I read the magazine.
From the time she was about three until the time she was five or six, I used to tell my daughter that we never bought stuff that was advertised on the TV, because aggressive marketing was a indication of a product you wouldn't otherwise buy. I can't say I tried very hard to apply this rule; it's true, though, that we didn't buy very many of the items/brands that spent the most on TV ads.
Oh, and I actually am the kind of person who buys sweetened coffee drinks, but they're so damned expensive. Especially since I get the soy milk version because I don't want to be taking lactose supplements all the time.
119: Me too! My copy of Middlemarch has Rufus Sewell on it.
Seersucker
Wait, what is the stereotype of the typical seersucker user?
Wait, what is the stereotype of the typical seersucker user?
Under-assistant West Coat promotion man?
Wait, KR, you're prejudiced against American cars? (Because you don't to be seen as the sort of person who would own one?) I'm not sure I've ever heard that one, and I definitely don't understand it.
Chrome Messenger Bags
I'm so pleased to have gotten my messenger bag before they were cool. (N.B. I didn't, actually, but it was before Chrome was a thing.)
121: Me too (look, it's an unscented gel. I don't like anything scented, and I hate the powdery stuff), and Buck mocks me for it.
Under-assistant West Coat promotion man?
What? There are few things that read less "west coast" to me than seersucker. Are you talking about some strange non-American west coast?
I'm resistant to any outerwear that reads as too "outdoorsy": North Face? Patagonia? Not for me. I'd rather be soggy, apparently.
Can you even buy a seersucker suit on the west coast? You'd have to special order it, right?
I have two pink shirts and I look good in them, dammit.
I'm finding the post weird; are there men out there actually surprised to find themselves very resistant to being seen to use anything obviously gendered feminine?
Maybe "surprise" isn't the right word, but surely you can conceive of someone who thinks he's enlightened and above all that—“I wouldn't scruple to buy such a product if it were superior or the only one available!”, he thinks—who nevertheless, when:
(a) the rubber hits the road,
(b) push comes to shove,
(c) he gets down to brass tacks, and
(d) starts to talk turkey
discovers that he's oddly resistant to carrying the damn thing to the register and going through with the purchase.
What do you know, Patagonia makes a seersucker shirt.
From 114:
How -- When -- Where
You Can Fight for Fortune Under Foreign Flags
Go on . . .
120 -- That list really brings to me how out of touch I am with the subject matter of this post. I don't approve of jet skis either, but I've ridden them and it was fun. I'm going to buy a bottle of Flathead vodka when the Grey Goose in the freezer is out. If my wife let me eat poptarts,I'd do so. She buys me short sleeve dress shirts and I wear them all summer. I very well might buy an American car when my VW gives out: it'll have to have a stick, though, so we'll see. If someone gave me a Great Lectures, I'd probably listen to it -- issue here is that I'm cheap, not status conscious. Which is the same reason I'll never own a Merc.
There's nothing special about me, I think that's been well established through the years. But I'm really having trouble with the concept of this one. I'm really not thinking of a product that I would like/buy but for the meta connotation. Maybe the connotations are so internalized, that I can't imagine them, eg I don't want to wear a dress. I don't know.
"I got a cravat and a seersucker suit ."
Urple: Cornhusker's lotion. Or Bag Balm, more confusingly. Or, most confusingly, Skin-so-Soft.
I avoid... Tommy Bahamas shirts for the Dwarf Lord, because you people say so; Olay anything because surely I'm not that old yet; Gothwear generally because I'm afraid it might take.
Some teenage clothing. There is a bunch I think is cute, but I'm just too embarrassed to be in my 30s wearing some of the kind of clothes I wish I was wearing.
There's a restaurant near our house I call the "girl restaurant".
It's not just the things Tweety listed, it's also that they use mismatched plates. A somewhat Anthropologie aesthetic.
I just complained last night about feeling uncomfortable at a yoga class because it was so filled with thin, fit, young, white people. Participating makes me feel like I'm endorsing a nominally open but in actual fact not-very-welcoming space.
I also did not buy a pair of glasses because my sister pointed out that they were like Sarah Palin's. I still feel guilty. I want to be able to hate her policies without contributing to the absolute tidal wave of sexist judgments that she and every other female politician have to deal with.
138.--That's rather nice, actually.
My overwhelming association with seesucker suites is my late gradfather, who would pack five of them for a one week trip. He was also deeply troubled by the fact that there were very few social occasions for him to wear the kind of racoon fur coat he strutted around in at Dartmouth in the 20s.
I assumed they stopped making seersucker when Grandfather died. He was, like, the last of the breed.
I would believe that CCarp is one of the least likely people to fall prey to the thing in the OP. I think there's just an air of "Let's roll with life and see where it goes!" to him that is antithetical to this anxiety.
Also, Sifu wears MANDOM.
I am struggling right now with the desire for a pair of lululemon yoga pants. It's not just that they're insanely expensive, it's the whole "I am a serious yogi with serious yoga gear" aesthetic. (In the young hot urban way, not the crunchy only wearing organic cotton way.) But they really do make everyone's ass look good.
I was at a party this summer that featured three men in seersucker suits. Sadly, I was not one of them, but I was wearing saddle shoes.
A somewhat Anthropologie aesthetic.
Better than an anthropophagy aesthetic.
There are things I'd wear but for the logo placement, but I see that more as a design thing than as an audience thing. I'd gladly wear North Face, Patagonia, Columbia, etc. but for the logo placement on some of their stuff. In fact, I have some Columbia stuff that I wear a lot and the only thing way it differs from Columbia stuff I'd never buy is that the logo is more subtly placed.
The color schemes are different from stuff I don't buy, but I see that as a different issue. I don't actually want the stuff with the color patterns I don't like, but I"ve seen quite a lot of "if not for the logo" designs, especially on coats.
Anything Burberry, anything Coach, except vintage de-logo'd Coach.
A replica Messi jersey
Which is more pretentious: a replica Messi jersey, or a replica Cruyff jersey? (For added bonus pretentiousness points, presume it's a replica Diplomats Cruyff jersey.)
71 Lotion/moisturizer. My skin gets dry enough to become uncomfortably itchy almost every winter, but I won't use any sort of lotion on it, because I don't have a vagina.
This is one of those times when I can't quite tell if urple is trolling us. I get really dry skin, and just not dealing with it would be terrible. Though I did once put some lotion on my hands in front of a guy I knew who started laughing uproariously and said "what? you're moisturizing!?" and then kept laughing for several minutes.
Devices that keep your reading glasses attached to your person.
I think when I was younger pink shirts seemed too feminine to me. Now they seem too frat-boy-ish.
There was a girl I liked in HS who had some unique smell product that I suspect was teen spirit but I've never verified. The question I've always had is how can I find out what actual teen spirit smells like without going and buying some, similar to the dilemma in the OP? This is a failure of the internet.
144: What restaurant is this? It sounds nice.
Devices that keep your reading glasses attached to your person.
There, that's the spirit! Search your souls, people!
Though I did once put some lotion on my hands in front of a guy I knew who started laughing uproariously and said "what? you're moisturizing!?" and then kept laughing for several minutes.
Dude.
My oldest son wore all kinds of pink frilly girly stuff when he was ~3, but now he's been in public school for 2 years and he's very anti- anything that might be perceived as girly.
160: if you google "girl restaurant" and the name of our neighborhood, it's like the second hit. You'll know which it is immediately.
I like cats, cats like me, my life might accommodate a cat, but I'll be damned if I'll ever become a frizzy-haired spinster with cats. Frizzy-haired spinster, fine.
164: that was so awesome when he did that.
heebie, is trying not to dress too young the same thing? I have 'mutton dressed as lamb' in my head embarassingly often when shopping, but I think I'm trying not to visibly fail to be in the marketing demo, it's not that I'm actually avoiding being in it.
seersucker is WONDERFUL. I still regret not getting silk seersucker yardage a few years ago, I didn't realize it was rare. Oh, so cool.
I think we had almost this exact conversation already, about seersucker.
167: I thought the stereotype only kicked in for multiple cats.
I would wear Ed Hardy designs if they were not the exclusive province of douchebags. Don Ed Hardy, a legendary West Coast tattooist and exponent of japonaiserie had an exhibit of his paintings at the gallery my ex worked at right before he struck the Audigier deal, and I was taken with his stuff.
171: nono. It literally has "girl" in the name.
155: the latter, and not by a small amount.
I'm stuck at work all night tonight writing a paper, so one solution to 159 would be for Sifu to go buy me some teen spirit and drop it off at my office.
The stereotype appears to be applied in cases of 1 cat when the person in question talks a lot about that cat, has pictures of the cat everywhere, becomes a cat, etc..
I didn't know you could still buy Teen Spirit.
176: aha--that looks nice, and actually less girly than the place I was thinking of.
Who wouldn't want a pair of shoes with a big fish on 'em?
Of course the ones I want are the women's shoes, too. I had a pink RAZR phone for a while, and I insist that people call my manbag/satchel a "purse", so I'm pretty mellow on the gender spectrum thing.
I would wear my seersucker suit more if it was better tailored. It's very roomy. I have a very nice Robert Graham seersucker jacket that I got off the sale rack in Sarasota, and I try to get that out a bunch. But really the nice thing about seersucker is the lightweight pants, and mine are just too baggy.
I won't wear snowboarder clothing. Or mountain biker clothing. This is wholly irrational: it's functional and looks nice. But I'm a skier and a road biker, dammit!
I dont drink beer. Now I drink wine regularly, but fruity alcoholic drinks used to be the only alcoholic drinks that I would drink.
This caused BR some discomforted since I was the first man she dated after divorcing her hubby when he came out.
I refused to eat at chain restaurants. Ive probably made my son into a jerk bc if he wants to mock you, he will suggest that you probably enjoy The Olive Garden.
Huh, with two jr. high aged daughters and wife plus shopping at Costco for most things I just end up using whatever girly stuff's laying around for deodorant, body wash/soap, etc. Perhaps not the manliest thing ever to go around arresting people while smelling of pomegranate and lemon verbena.
If you have a truly butch job you don't need to worry so much about the whole 'signifying masculinity' bit. It's the office workers who have to be all obsessive. The less gender differentiation is required or even acceptable in professional life the more people have to express themselves through consumer products.
I insist that people call my manbag/satchel a "purse"
Awesome.
I'm having trouble searching my soul on this one, per instructions, as well. My first thought was: junk food. Like corn curls, aka cheese puffs, the kind that turn your fingers and tongue orange. I just can't be buying that stuff, despite my secret desire for it, but it feels to me as though I disdain them due to my sure knowledge that they're bad for me. Foodstuffs are problematic sorts of examples for this reason, I think. I, uh, do go for cheese nips (or their generic counterpart) occasionally, and have been known to eat them somewhat secretly, so there's that.
If you have a truly butch job you don't need to worry so much about the whole 'signifying masculinity' bit.
HAHAHA. Oh, that was good. Saying that to a cop just makes is sweeter.
OK, fine, after much soul-searching, you got me: spandex. Only a partial example because I do own some, I just don't use it any more and as far as I remember it was all gifts. I've discussed this before. Apparently I'm more bothered by looking serious about something (looking serious about something I feel I'm not good enough at?) than I'm bothered by looking insufficiently masculine. Bizarre.
God, I am so with 175. When I was on OK Cupid, literally every second woman's profile said "No Ed Hardy" which totally made me want to buy a short sleeve shirt with flames and dragons and shit all over it. I still want that. Actually, kinda want to put up an OK Cupid profile with me wearing an Ed Hardy shirt open to the waist, and pointing at my abs, and see where that takes me.
Slightly more seriously, seersucker and (especially) a capella groups make me near-homicidal.
Spice mixes. Bread. I'm know how to make them, so I don't buy them, out of pride. But then I don't make them.
It took me a while to bring myself to wear regular bike shorts. Sure are comfy, though.
190: how does one open a t-shirt to the waist?
and (especially) a capella groups make me near-homicidal
That's just weird. Lots of classic motown, for example, would sound great a capella.
I was thinking like a Hawaiian shirt Ed Hardy thing. Which I suppose adds "Tommy Bahama" to the list of unacceptable items.
I'd also find bike shorts a bridge too far, but maybe I'd get used to them.
I have a Tommy Bahama shirt. It is as comfortable as they say they are. It's also solid black, so maybe not the canonical example of the genre. Also, I have no idea where it is. Also, I'm not sure Blume would let me wear it.
I'm sure I've mentioned the wedding I attended a few years ago, for which the groom (one of my best friends, actually) asked his bros in waiting friends to wear seersucker suits. We must have looked like the revenge of Matlock.
One of the other grad students in my lab was in the acapella group at [ not one of the colleges you probably think, but close enough ]. I can't claim to really understand the college acapella thing, but damn, this kid can beatbox something fresh.
197: I've been to a wedding where they requested people wear seersucker. Being a classy sort (also not really liking the cut of seersucker suits; so lumpy!) I wore linen. Like I did to my own wedding, for that matter.
I wasn't in a college acapella group, but I imagine they're a lot of fun to be in. Singing with other people feels wonderful.
Having sex with a sheep may feel wonderful, but that doesnt mean it's a good thing to do.
Season tickets (or even multi-game ticket packages) to any professional sport. I'm a fan, just not that much of a fan.
A Bentley Continental GT, in British racing green. I'd pack it full of thin, well-bred girls and point it at Cap Ferrat like a Dornford Yates character, leaving Jeeves to follow with the luggage by train.
Don't you judge me.
200, 201: Compromise and sing with sheep.
Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind a suit of armor. Is jousting disreputable?
206: I think you are fine with chain mail, but plate armor is just too much.
Singing with other people feels wonderful.
But you could get this by starting a small madrigal choir, and then you wouldn't have to do that absurd dancing that seems to be required by a capella groups.
I once saw an a capella group of law students. They weren't bad, but they should have been working on how to borrow less money.
then you wouldn't have to do that absurd dancing that seems to be required by a capella groups
Why do you hate Boyz II Men, Blume?
Some of the counselors at my summer camp put on white tie a couple of times a year and sang madrigals.
208: but now wait a minute, what if the madrigal choir incorporated some moves?
211: what the... that's the bluest blooded thing I've ever heard of. Did you go to summer camp at Bohemian Grove or something?
213: Blood! Blood and souls for Arioch!
I mean, good times, good times.
Some whoppers have been told on unfogged before, but 211 must surely take the cake.
A good friend of mine was a Wellesley Widow. I think they just stood on the steps.
Flippanter is too cute.
216: They pushed their husband down the steps?
215, 216.2: but it simply has to be true.
Ketamine still sounds awesome
My experiences with it certainly were.
Having sex with a sheep may feel wonderful, but that doesnt mean it's a good thing to do.
Some might even say it's ba-a-a-ad. I've never had the slightest desire to try golf, and I think that's mostly a reaction to its status as a class signifier. I've never had any problem with gender- or orientation-identified this or that, but I'm contrarian like that.
My sister was a Wellesly Widow.
I have seen a lot of Tommy Hillfucker shirts that I would like, but would never own because they have the Tommy Hillfucker logo on them.
219.last: No. Golf truly sucks. Somebody hands me a giant club, has me do a frustrating and pointless task, then gets upset about the grass when I swing the putter into the green. That isn't even fair.
like a Dornford Yates character, leaving Jeeves to follow with the luggage by train.
I just read some Dornford Yates stories. It's like Roderick Spode got his own series. Jill is Madeline Bassett.
I always felt kind of stupid playing golf, but 1. sometimes you actually hit the ball, which, that is fun, 2. I'm pretty comfortable with the ratio of drunk shirtless dudes to earth-killing lawn-care products at the course where I've played and 2. my mom likes it when I play golf with her. So I make do.
Except that one time I killed a songbird with an errant drive. That was too bad.
223: Berry Pleydell stories or Richard Chandos/Jonah Mansell ones? (Trivia: Jonah Mansell's country house is called "Whiteladies." Additional trivia: Malcom McDowell played Richard Chandos in a movie adaptation of, I think, Blind Corner.)
Oh, also! While I realize that shaved heads were long ago mainstreamed for white guys, somewhere deep in my brain they still signal far-right white supremacist ideology and I have trouble imagining how far back my hairline would have to go before I'd feel comfortable adopting that look for myself.
I think I've said before that I shaved my head for the first time in 1987, in Wisconsin, and that many people looked at me askance because of it. But then again, my other signifiers, especially my clothes, screamed suburban Jew. I was weird, yes.
I shaved my head one night when tore up on expensive beer, mad dog 20/20 and ephedrine during my first, abortive time in college. I looked kind of scary, I suspect, but given that I wore a kung fu jacket all day every day, I'm not sure it read as "white supremacist" so much as "crazy, angry nerd". Not that there's not some overlap.
226: Both are full of horrible Tories who are the heroes. Richard Chandos gets sent down from university for beating up communists. Good-hearted peasants are constantly explaining to the Pleydells that they miss the Old Order and labor organizers have ruined their lives. Also greasy lisping villains. Sort of fascinating. What does the lisp signify?
[Runs fingers through thick, gleaming, recently conditioned hair.]
On the pink shirt thing: Jammies' youngest brother is extremely frat boy, and we went to the bar with his crew at graduation, and they were all wearing chinos and pastel button down shirts. Many were pink, but all were pastel. One or two wore Wranglers instead of chinos.
It was bizarre how homogenous they looked, like a parody of a regular frat. The frats that I remember from Michigan were not that uniform.
CA always shaved his head until the last 5-7 years or so. And for some of that time he was wearing a white tshirt and a black leather jacket and combat boots. It was altogether too sloppy to read "skin head" rather than "punk rock," I think. Once, however, he nearly made the bad, inattentive driver who tried to run me over piss himself from fear, and it was pretty clear to me after hearing the guy's many apologies in his Eastern European accent, that he was that scared because he thought CA was a skinhead.* I felt bad about that.
*All CA did was bang on his hood a couple times and call him an asshole.
231: thanks, Moby! I'm drinking the blood of Christian children right now. (Oh wait, that's the other holiday, isn't it? Still, this blood is delicious. And now that I've gone to all the trouble of securing it, it would be a shame to let it go to waste.)
230: ¡i think lisping is "Jewish", but I don't know why.
Somewhere in an underground room at MIT is a shirt of chain mail I made 15 years ago. I've thought about trying to find it some time.
233.1: yeah, I mean, I think my thing about pink shirts is more about the ever-present danger that my default clothing choices could tip catastrophically into preppie.
Ah, golf: no, despite the fact that I caddied for my dad as a youngster and even took golf lessons at some point. No.
I was not aware that a cappella groups tended to dance.
Shaved heads: unless advisable for obvious reasons, too trendy.
Things I once partook of (in high school) and wouldn't be caught dead with now: knee-high nylons. Turtleneck dickies.
233: From Geoffrey Wolff's The Final Club:
Here was Nathaniel's first sight of a gathered tribe of boys and girls sent east to become gentlemen and ladies, bond salesmen and post-debutantes. They were being seen off by clots of tanned moms and bluff, red-faced men wearing (like their sons) pink-soled white bucks or saddle shoes, and Brooks Brothers blue button-downs, white button-downs, yellow button-downs, pink button-downs. No pockets, a roll to the front of the ample collar. Nathaniel didn't note (then) the specifics of these shirts, but he should have: this had been his father's button-down of choice.
Still, this blood is delicious.
You know which Christian babies have the absolute best blood? These guys. Expensive as shit, but so so worth it.
Turtleneck dickies.
Let's please not have the circumcision discussion again.
Mellitus (as in diabetes mellitus) means "honey-sweet" since they used to diagnose it by tasting the urine for excess sugar.
They were probably tasting the urine anyway.
231 should be applied wheresoever applicable, with or without "baldy" appended.
Which is more worrisome: tipping catastrophically into preppie, or into goth? Into hipster or into grunge? Punk, or hippie? Brooks Brothers, or sweats?
I can't think of any off hand, but I'm sure there are plenty. Ok that's wrong, the shaving cream in the OP would probably qualify, assuming they make it in a gel form. If they don't, then I wouldn't buy it in any form. Ok, reading up some, 183 resonates.
234 I would cross the street to get away from someone like that in Poland. Instinctively, no thinking at all. Fuckers don't mug you, they just beat the shit out of random people for the fun of it.
You know, this is probably the only thread in the history of unfogged where I am moderately curious to hear what mcmanus has to say*, and he doesn't show.
* to the extent it is responsive to the OP; I don't need to hear about why Peter Orszag is worse than Heinrich Himmler or anything.
Peter Orszag dresses less goth than Himmler.
Goth, Hipster, Hippie, Brooks Brothers. Is this like the Meyers-Briggs?
I don't need to hear about why Peter Orszag is worse than Heinrich Himmler or anything.
Put up the board, Jimmy! Ladies and gentlemen, we're givin' odds and takin' all wagers. I got 2 to 1 on "Obama shot my dog," 3 to 1 on "They all must die" (all pronouns are wild, ladies and gentlemen) and -- you're killin' me here, Jimmy; you think I'm a charity? Ladies and gentlemen, he's killin' me -- 7 to 1 on "I haven't bought clothing since Nixon resigned." You, sir, you look like a betting man who knows the turf and likes a flutter: care to place a wager on "Yglesias and Klein [verb] [noun]"?
On reflection, I want to change grunge to hipster.
All of the categories in 246 but one have described how I dressed from time to time (or at least one some occasions), and that's okay by me.
Is this like the Meyers-Briggs?
I think it is.
I'm having real trouble with preppie vs. goth. As always, I don't know what you people have against hippies. You'd rather have a mohawk than wear tie-dye or (if female) gauzy skirts? It is confusing.
I'd totally rather a women go hippie than punk, but punk is manlier.
Why not combine all the looks? White facepaint, black eyeliner, combat boots, a mohawk, tie-dye shirt, john lennon glasses, white belt, girl jeans, knit cap, blue blazer and club tie.
Apparently, grammer ain't manly neither.
I have a fondness for pink shirts, despite disliking seersucker. Jesus Christ am I so fucking fascinating.
As always, I don't know what you people have against hippies.
A partial list:
Free to Be You and Me
the alienation of the working class, sinking the Democratic coalition pretty much forever and dooming the nascent welfare state
complaining about the alienation of the working class
that Blind Melon video
Zabriskie Point
that "turn to your neighbor and shake hands" nonsense in church
everything fringed, all the time
Ben and Jerry's
conservatives' imbecilic reverence for Ronald Reagan
Peter Fonda
Richard Brautigan
Nehru jackets
257: That was intentional, hipster.
Lee and I are on opposite sides of the great clothing logo debate. Mara owns some toddler Ralph Lauren, horsie and all. But they're from the boys' side since they were bought during her pre-prechool boyish phase.
I started drinking later than normal and was afraid I'd be obviously inept at it, so decided my drink of choice would be a gin and tonic so that no one my age would have grounds to criticize. It later turned out to be a great conversation-starter for cranky old gay men, who are probably morw my demographic in non-romantic ways than my peers are anyhow.
Hmm, there must be more.
that "turn to your neighbor and shake hands" nonsense in church
Maybe the hippies brought it back after it faded, but that goes back to St. Augustine's day.
265: Hippie Patient Zero. [Warms up time machine.]
263: 257? Hey, you can rock the look, go for it.
Free to Be You and Me
Okay, you've gone too far. Who doesn't think that's awesome?
White facepaint? To represent the mimes? The preppie? Awesome overall, but it could really do without the white belt, which is just totally off, man.
I say switch out the combat boots for some boat shoes, sockless, for the preppie, and add some heavy facial piercings.
262: Buh.
Free to Be You And Me is completely awesome, and I will cut anyone who says otherwise. I'm not dressing my snake in a muumuu as we speak.
IYKWIMAITYD.
If it teaches how to cut people, then I don't see how anyone could object.
271.1: avoiding direct sunlight only gets you so far. And you need to hold your pants up, hipster.
Sorry, that should be avoiding direct sunlight only gets you so far.
Pretty much everything about Flippanter's list is nonsensical and fails to do any explanatory work, so.
Free to Be You And Me is completely awesome, and I will cut anyone who says otherwise.
Similarly,I will shoot anyone who doesn't like the teachings of Mahatma Ghandi in the fucking face.
276: The Blind Melon video is very annoying.
I sometimes confuse FtBYaM with The Point, which, I've just discovered, is on YouTube.
I think we watched The Point at socialist summer camp. Where, by the way, nobody sang madrigals.
I watched The Breakfast Club on a retreat in high school. I learned that Judd Nelson's career peaked before I was out of high school.
Also, Ally Sheedy's, but I wasn't mature enough to learn that yet.
||
No way NY sticks around for extra innings, they're booting this one now. Sorry Sifu.
|>
that "turn to your neighbor and shake hands" nonsense in church
Shaking hands? I wish. At my last church they made us all get up, stand in a circle, joins hands and sing two courses of "From You I Receive..."
12: Yes, he does buy "feminine" products for me sometimes, but buying tampons and buying pink shaving cream is different... I think. The latter leaves some room for interpretation. Buying products for me just positively reinforces his sense of being a modern, feminist man. My stepfather is a family hero for buying an enema for my mother while they were traveling in SF- he walked out of the late night pharmacy to cheers of "YOU GO, BOY!!!" Irritable bowel syndrome be damned!!
That will teach me to stop paying attention. How the hell did the Devil Rays come back from a 0 - 7 deficit?
287: the fix cost Halford a bunch, sure, but I bet it was worth it.
Does the pink shaving cream really fit the question in the original post? (other than by already being in the original post) It seems like it only fits for someone who wants to buy it, but is holding off because of who it will be perceived, while the post is about buying it under a specific and unusual condition. Not wanting to use it says still says something about identity and consumption, but something different than if Knecht were to want to use it all the time but didn't.
Also, re: chris's comments about soap way upthread, I've used soap as a replacement for shaving cream and it's always worked fine an on occasional basis, but too many times in succession and my skin gets noticeably irritated.
288: I wonder if Halford paid more or less than Sifu paid to have the umpire call that bogus balk to score the second Red Sox run tonight.
To the OP, I still get a little squirmy purchasing products for intimacy (lube, condoms, your basics) because then the cashier will know I'm _that_ kind of a girl.*
*Not at present mind you. Nor often. But still.
I'm stuck at work, and can't watch anything. Also, it appears that I've been giving a false impression of my riches, probably not the best move since my ultimate plan is to scam you all for money.
Canadian tv is going with the Phillies game for now.
To 292, is there anything more gross than the "Intimacy Kit" you find available for sale in hotel minibars? The name alone, ewww. I mean, I'm very much pro having sex in hotels, but still.
A prayer, by Fleur:
Dear God,
Please give me strength. Help me shun gossip. Please continue to help me become a better person. And God, please help me to develop discretion. Amen.
than if Knecht were to want to use it all the time but didn't
295: Do people use it and return it to try and avoid paying minibar prices?
296: Discretion is the better part of valor, so if you don't tell us, you'll become unvalorous having exhausted your supply.
I have never seen this "intimacy kit." It doesn't sound gross, exactly, just more like pandering to every conceivable need, with a great markup, no doubt, and ... wait, is it gross because it suggests that people have had sex in this very bed in which you will be sleeping?
300: Well, see, for me it's awful because OMG the front desk will know I'm _that_ kind of girl!
A couple of Taiwanese hotels I stayed in a few years ago included condoms in the same basket as soaps and shampoo. Oddly, the one hotel that was almost certainly a "love hotel" - there was an always on, non-scrambled porn channel and apparently less-than-daily-rates - that we stayed in did not include that. Probably didn't want to seem too classy.
301: Heh. I stayed in one Hotel Cupido in Puerto Rico one time, and our high school level Spanish combined with just not having thought this through, despite the sign and name, led to some comical exchanges with the proprietor: How many hours? What? All night, overnight! Okay, then, like, 9 hours?
Fully equipped, it was, with intimacy kits and a vibrating bed thingy -- fun and funny! -- but otherwise a little depressing.
You can hardly express
The breastfeeding discussion is in the other thread, Di.
Parsimon, I'm glad you had the courage to admit that you worked as a prostitute in Puerto Rico. This is a safe space.
Oh, did you say "jefe"? I thought you said GFE.
The Hotel Cupido was awesome in its way, Halford. Very respectful and fairly clean. What was weird was that it was out in the middle of nowhere, and one did not expect that, of all things.
130
Wait, KR, you're prejudiced against American cars? (Because you don't to be seen as the sort of person who would own one?) I'm not sure I've ever heard that one, and I definitely don't understand it.
You've never heard of this? It isn't exactly uncommon .
And Canadian tv went to pre-season hockey.
Orioles played one hell of a game.
Wow. Do I ever wish I had been home watching tonight. I actually feel bad for Tweety and . . . . oh, fuck it, "The Red Sox Lose The Penant, The Red Sox Lose The Penant!"
Ah, now I actually do feel bad. Incredible run and incredible game by Tampa Bay, great fight by Baltimore.
More or less OT this point, but what's the deal/problem about Peter Orszag, by the way? Mentioned upthread at 249 and following, and I see references elsewhere as well, but I haven't glommed on to the specific complaint as yet.
Jesus and I hadn't even seen that the Phillies and Cardinals won, too. Biggest regular season day I can remember.
317: you mean, beyond his leaving the administration for a job with Citi (which, by the way, should have led to him being shunned for the rest of his life)? He's also shown himself to be a Broderesque moderate, a sort of split-the-difference, pox-on-both-their houses asswipe. And, if his latest comments are to be believed, he hates democracy. Other than that, he's an absolutely swell guy. I hope his shana is tova.
Looking around the net (I didn't watch the game) it appears that Carl Crawford will now become the new Buckner.
Orzag had a recent piece in the New Republic that started with a warning that we can't let democracy commit suicide and recommended as a solution taking a knife and cutting its heart out.
Although Crawford had a play on the ball, it was a difficult play. Certainly Scutaro's base-running mistake on Crawford's double in the top of the 8th was worse.
Nearly the whole team fell apart for a whole month. They dropped two of three to a third rate team playing for nothing but their own honor. Blaming this that or the other player is a real chickenshit move.
Yes, of course, although the blaming Buckner thing is also super unfair. Really an epic collapse. Worse than the 1951 Dodgers, who at least played .500 ball down the stretch, though faced with a really remarkable Giants team that year.
Not to mention the Rays deserving a lot of credit. What a fantastic comeback, both on the season and tonight. Longoria was a monster.
237: don't do it, SP. You'll be eaten by a grue.
though faced with a really remarkable Giants team that year.
Remarkable, and also, you know, cheating.
Reminder to Red Sox fans: it's all right to cry!
And, before my conscience kicks in and the regular season ends, let's revisit this favorite just one more glorious time.
I sometimes confuse FtBYaM with The Point, which, I've just discovered, is on YouTube.
The Point is completely awesome.
I'm with whoever commented way up-thread about not wanting to look too trendy, even if I like the clothes. I especially don't want to come to class wearing the same outfit as one of my students (though shopping in "misses" rather than "juniors" helps). These days I also feel self-conscious bringin bottled water anywhere.
Halford, come on. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no summer of decency?
So far, only spam email harvesters.
Look, you'll probably have desperate, pain alleviating drunken sex with some New England transplant, while I'm still at work. Who is the decent one now?
338: The playoffs aren't in San Francisco either, so I don't think they'll be writing in.
Guns, knives, waxed cotton jackets, IKEA furniture, jazz music, garotte wire.
The waxed cotton is a good one. I won't buy anything that signals a certain kind of posh twat, or the emulation of said posh twat. So no boat shoes, for example. More generally, I don't like clothes that are 'spivvy' [if that makes much sense?], which annoys my wife as she sometimes pushes that sort of thing at me.
The gender stuff wouldn't generally occur to me, though. I happily carry fairly feminine (according to some of my twatty mates) bags, for example. Although, that said, I'd avoid things that were strongly scented.
I only skimmed Orszag's infamous article, and the actual policy suggests struck me as banal. Automatic stabilizers for the economy doesn't really strike me as cutting out the heart of democracy.
Walt is right; if ttaM's confusion was due to me, see Halford's comment; still no legit CL reply, but something on OKCupid; .... Can't remember what I else gonna say.
346: Next thing you know, someone's going to come out against overexaggeration in blog comments.
If we're having to resort to seriousness, I thought Orzag's piece was about as complete a technocratic dullfest as you can find, with bits of "institutions tied to voting are teh suxxor" mixed in to keep people awake. But introducing it with the "suicide" quote is an invitation to mockery.
I won't buy anything that signals a certain kind of posh twat, or the emulation of said posh twat.
Ah, but would you buy it if it didn't? I've occasionally thought that a waxed cotton jacket would be quite a useful thing to own; it's just the sort of person who wears them that puts me off. Do you think the same about boat shoes? (I actually own some boat shoes, but only ever wear them on boats, which I think is OK.)
Possibly. I own various traditional things -- tweed jacket, brogues, etc -- that have some class connotations but they don't feel intrinsically posh twatty in the way that a wax jacket or those brightly coloured cord trousers worn by braying fuckwits do. If I could picture David Cameron in it ...
Oh yeah, the deck shoes. When I actually wanted a pair to wear sailing I went to a lot of trouble to get brown ones with same-colour soles so they didn't look like "dubes", which are associated with certain types.
Yeah, deck shoes, no socks, shorts + pastel coloured shirt. Maybe a jumper draped over the shoulders. Semiotically that reads 'scum'.
Now I feel bad. I have only to turn my head to see a waxed cotton Barbour jacket hanging on my door.
353: You should see a neurologist if nobody else can see it.
I had a waxed jacket in a Land-Rover shade when I was a kid, but I really did live in the country so it's permissible.
I keep noticing that more men than you think (especially round here) actually look good in red trousers, especially as you can flip the usual colourful shirt/sobersides trousers combination. But the association with reactionary fuckwits is just too powerful. (See also deck shoes, but then I don't have any desire to wear them.)
I think of that whole trend as Tory drag. But what was performance yesterday is fact today, and the face grows to fit the mask...
I frequently dress preppie. I often emulate my grandmother nannie in choice of outfits, and I even have some of her clothes, like vintage lilly pulitzer pants, which are awesome. vintage green izod polos? great. tennis socks with pink bobbles on them? tretorns? those jack rodgers sandals from palm beach? coral nail polish? all this is great and I won't hear otherwise.
I also actually approve of flippanter's 203. my grandfather and his brother and sister were raised in cap ferrat for quite a while, and it enabled my grandfather to be a good OSS spy in occupied france. my great-uncle made international news by stowing away on a cruise chip at age 8, hiding in a lifeboat till they were well out to sea, and then emerging. he wanted to go home to new york to live with his grandparents instead of his alcoholic, fucked up parents. they telegraphed ahead to discover whether the grandparents would cover the costs, and put him in a first class berth.
even more awesomely, he lied about his age when he was 16 and joined the marines to serve in WWII.
352: hey, everyone in my mother's family resents that remark. the mystery is when does anyone have nantucket pants that are bright red, I never see them except when they're perfectly faded. do they hire someone to wear them for them?
I can't really think of any products I'd be tempted to buy but for distate of the intended audience, but I can certainly think of a behavioural analogue. I'm notorious among my friends and co-workers as a mumbler and for generally speaking very quietly. This was something I very consciously developed as a pushback against the braying public-schoolboy/Oxbridge graduate stereotype I didn't want to be. Unfortunately I seem to have overdone it.
I'm avoiding the question, though. methamphetamine, yeah. and ditto PCP. but wait, I don't even do drugs so it's not relevant. ed hardy, sure. "it" bags, except I seem to have made one exception for a vintage kelly bag, but it was a gift (inheritance, more like) from a great-aunt. tacky jade jewelry. (one bangle is OK provided it's a certain shade but there's lots of horrible things). havaianas flip-flops, though maybe the brazil ones could be acceptable. T-shirts with giant logos or just lots of words at all. anything from guess, because it makes you feel slutty in a bad way. uggs. diet yogurt with gross flavors. perfume by some random celebrity like jennifer lopez, even if someone swore to me it was the most wonderful smell of all time. those twilight novels. granite countertops.
re: 65, I had a similar experience when Mr Fingers played XOYO a couple of weeks back. My partner became nonfunctional, disapproving, and deeply pissed off...no drugs involved though, just a serious impedance-mismatch.
diamonds other than engagement rings or plain studs during the day. my brother's first wife was HORRIBLE this way. giant hideous 50s diamond brooches and stuff at home, at like 2pm. this is more a behavioral issue than a buy issue.
also, urple: CETAPHIL. it's clinical, rather than girly. and I love the idea of gswift arresting people with a faint air of lemongrass swirling around him.
I used to be opposed to girly drinks and only have straight bourbon to be more macho. lame. some girly drinks are delicious.
154: I have a beautiful Burberry coat that I bought at a charity shop in England. It fits me amazingly well. That one is okay, though, because it was made in England rather than China and has another pointing out that it's Austen something. (Can't look at the label, because it's at the cleaners.)
Yes, he does buy "feminine" products for me sometimes, but buying tampons and buying pink shaving cream is different...
I recently reached into my pocket to pay for something at a store, and pulled a feminine pad out of my pocket . My son just rolled his eyes and walked away.
I do get some odd looks when I walking in the store with the adult sized GoodNight pull ups.
Ive tried to teach my son not to giggle or be embarassed about tampons or other girl stuff. He is mostly very good about it.
I think the burberry coat=awfulness equation is peculiar to the UK, so you're safe there. I mean, it's a great coat!
CETAPHIL. it's clinical, rather than girly.
It's not the marketing that's the problem, it's the alleviation of suffering. Slathering something on oneself to improve one's skin condition. Bah.
In Europe, I got to really like slowly sipping digestifs, especially Becherovka. What's the most available digestif in the States? Jager. There are times I've thought about getting a shot at a bar, but I don't want to be seen as one of *those* people. Living in Southie makes this feeling more acute.
367: By similar logic, brushing your teeth is out.
368: Averna's relatively common.
355.2: red cord trousers are even more problematic, because they are the semi-compulsory off-duty dress of the Household Cavalry. If you see someone wearing them around the West End, then there's a good chance that he's in the Household Cavalry, used to be in it, or wants to be in it.
370: Is it? I'd never heard of it until now.
that's too bad, red cords can look great on the right guy.
372: like I said, relatively. Any bar frequented by elderly Italians is likely to have it, certainly. In some parts of the country (well, in SF, anyhow) Fernet Branca is probably more common.
Well, the right guy in this case is a cavalryman. I guess it's a Cherrypicker hangover or something.
are the cavalrymen all assholes? because it sounds as if it could in principle be a sexy occupation.
374: "Elderly Italians" is a fair description of much of my family and I still never heard of it. They drink regular wine.
that digestif made of artichokes is just unspeakably vile. cynar.
377: do they go out to bars much?
sure, they drink regular wine, but then after dinner...what? IME elderly italians regard digestifs as quasi-medicinal and more or less mandatory. god knows I've been poured plenty of unwelcome little glasses.
379: Not really. That's the Irish side.
380: More wine, Bailey's, coffee.
I suppose all but two of them were raised in Nebraska and that might involve some kind of cultural difference.
Hey, look, a sidebar telling you where to get some.
There are times I've thought about getting a shot at a bar, but I don't want to be seen as one of *those* people.
Man, only if they've got it in one of those cooled shot dispensing machines. Warm Jaeger is grody. As the commercials say: Jaeger im Gefrierfach.
383: It costs more than bourbon but has less alcohol. No wonder I never heard of it.
There's a rhubarb one, Rabarbaro Zucca Amaro, that I am particualrly fond of. I don't like any of the ones with a menthol flavor though, like fernet.
378: I love Cynar (with a little soda and a twist).
There's this Thuringian digestiv called Aromatique that is Jägermeister-like but more subtle. Unfortunately it is not distributed in the U.S.
in its favor, I will say that if four people each have a dime bag of heroin and then polish off 2 bottles of jagermeister, they will get fucked up in an interestingly different way. not pleasant, exactly, but different. prone to fistfights, sure, and extravagant declarations of love. I would say it's worth trying for the set of people who are using dope already but this is really not dear abby type advice. this is some niche market shit.
385: some of them are pretty inexpensive. I like Meletti Amaro, which usually runs like $16 a bottle.
Becherovka is nice. Good as a 'Beton', too, with tonic and a twist. Lots of ice.
387: gah, no, ack. I don't even like cinzano. I guess I am a giant pussy when it comes to bitter digestifs. bring on the cointreau! I put sugar in my brandy.
You can get bottled Becherovka in Chicago. Fernet is popular in CZ also. For a near-digestif elderly european drinking experience, pastis (sweet!!) or grappa (delightful brandy) are possibilities, though ordering either when out seems pretty obnoxious unless the bar is really well stocked and also quiet, and somehow places like that never seem all that inviting.
Branded exercise clothes are an irrational no-go for me. After helpful recommendations here, I got wicking jerseys for bike rides. And I exercise. But the idea of putting on a spiffy shirt with this year's logo in order to sweat (used to be the swoosh, then puma was everywhere, now I guess the UA logo) just rubs me the wrong way.
Is any of this digestif stuff better than port or brandy? Because I don't want to try new things and have them not be an improvement on the old stuff.
389: The world clearly needs a drug Dear Abby.
394: just different. Some of them (Fernet Branca especially) are very bitter. They definitely do a better job of settling your stomach after a big meal. Anyhow, do it for your ancestors.
376: you should probably ask someone else for an objective answer to that question.
396: Tip back and think of Sicily.
Fernet is popular in CZ also.
YEAH HE HAD A GREAT LAST THEOREM.
ooh, ooh, pick me! do you want to know what happens if you take mescaline with heroin and then watch "throne of blood" all by yourself because your friends all tripped last night and are tired? it got wicked evil in there for a while, just auschwitz mountains of bodies everywhere I looked, but later progressed into a lovely dream of islands floating like clouds beneath the peeling pressed-tin ceiling, simultaneously small and large enough to visit. bob mcmanus probably already knows this one, though.
400: Kurosawa had tons of archers just out of shot firing arrow after arrow in Mifune's armor. They don't make 'em like him anymore.
Cynar is indelibly associated with Telly Savalas for me, because when I was living in Rome fully half of the buses had big ads with him saying "mi piace Cynar" or whatever, and I don't want that in a drink.
I do love amaro, though. Especially Nardini.
Is Chartreuse a digestif? That's at liquor stores in Pennsylvania.
There essentially is a drug dear abby, yes.
404: Oh. But they don't get into etiquette questions like, "How much small talk and let's-pretend-we're-friends must go on after the dealer shows up?" do they? Actually, I seem to remember a drug etiquette column somewhere. High Times? Things like, "What to do when someone makes the end of the joint all spitty?" etc.
Wait, it's Rosh Hashanah?
There are Jewish people in New York City?
Mel Brooks is Jewish?
I don't think those really count as drug questions, Flippanter.
And a hush settles over the blog. Goddam WASPs ruining everything for the rest of us.
I would look at that and suspect anyone wearing it of being a Euroterrorist henchman from an 80s movie. It doesn't look bad, precisely, but it looks costumey.
I just made SAS do what I wanted it to do. Hooray.
I'm like 225 comments in now. Are we at this point just admitting embarrassing shit? I enjoyed The Da Vinci Code. TAKE THAT!!!
Wait no what is the original..."That is, what products would you be tempted to buy if you didn't feel distaste for the most visible consumers thereof?"
I'm sure there must be plenty but I can't quite think what. I guess I'd be curious to read a Harry Potter book since people whose tastes I esteem say they are a rollicking good time, but the whole culture of it was so irritating to me that I have never read anything (except for the first page in Czech because my Czech teacher gave it to us and I think I wasn't as committed about the whole thing yet.)
411: British shirts are sold by a "pit to pit" measure? That seems very much more useful than measuring only the neck and sleeve.
I could have gone without learning that Bjorn Borg sells underwear.
Naučíme se v pate knize že Ron a Snape byly po celou dobu tajne milence.
people whose tastes I esteem say they are a rollicking good time
There ought to be a word for "things that all the people whose taste significantly overlaps with mine are crazy about, but which leave me cold".
The new Battlestar Galactica was like this for me. All the people that I happily wasted time with discussing the finer points of Buffy the Vampire Slayer or over-analyzing The Wire were totally into it, and I just wasn't. Even though I normally like SF and even remember watching the original as a kid.
416: I like "Take It Off" by Kesha.
420: I feel the that way about Buffy. I liked the movie (in part for Paul Rueben's death scene), but the series left me cold. Lost drove me up the wall by blowing a really promising setup with voodoo bullshit. There is a rich vein of actual castaway experiences to be mined for story material and they went with stupid pseudo-scientific crap.
423: It would take some very strong magnets to mangle a brain to the point where Battlestar Galactica is good.
419: I remember enough to know that this idea is the root of all HP fanfic, right?
I had some kind of acronym in another thread for Things People I Respect Like That I Can't Get Into (or whatever.) Buffy's on my list, too.
Basically 99% of fantasy and 97% of science fiction (books, not teevee -- I'll watch any damn thing). CA thinks it's snooty Mean Girl prejudice, but dragons or dystopic worlds where people upload their consciousnesses or whatever make my eyes roll into the back of my head.
I've spent the last two hours waiting for my 3.15pm meeting to brief a ton of slides and data modelling to my boss (who intends to present them to the Narnians next week). But it looks like the call before the meeting before mine overran very badly indeed.
Boss pleasantly surprised that the ton of slides actually exists, so that's something.
For a near-digestif elderly european drinking experience, pastis (sweet!!) or grappa (delightful brandy) are possibilities
Pastis is an aperitif, fool!
I'm surprised that more people haven't mentioned firearms in this thread. Target shooting is lots of fun, but I have no desire to shoot any person or animal, to be "prepared" to shoot somebody "in the gravest extreme" or to associate with the rabid minority (?) of firearms owners who think that Jesus built their hot rods.
Hey, I'm enjoying the heck out of BSG at the moment. Only 7 years late, even!
Yes, I feel the same way about firearms. Not so much having fun target-shooting, as having the skill in super-emergency reserve in case things go down the tubes even faster than expected (don't want the Purified Patriotic States of America to have all those with the relevant skills on their side, after all). But where to learn without getting NRA cooties?
But where to learn without getting NRA cooties?
The New Black Panther Party?
I'm surprised that more people haven't mentioned firearms in this thread.
It's not really an option for some of us. Although that's not entirely true. I did target shooting in CCF, which was presumably before the handgun ban. Can't say it was all that fun. Certainly not as fun as hanging a target from a remote control dirigible and shooting it with a soft air gun.
I've remembered one for me though - Magic: The Gathering. I avoided playing it at school because I perceived the players as nerdy, which was a bit rich coming from me. Now I've played the Duels of the Planeswalker computer games and it turns out it's actually really fun. That said, I've still got no desire to play the real thing given the costs involved.
435: The firearms safety and training stuff is very good and they are very serious about it. I'd risk the cooties from the second amendment worship element in order to take advantage of the high quality training. It's not like the training is a profit center that funds their lobbying. Plus you get to mingle with people who have very different politics, and that's a good thing to do from time to time.
429 Basically 99% of fantasy and 97% of science fiction
This.
I kind of enjoyed Lost at the very beginning and then felt compelled to keep watching it even though I quickly got bored, because my dad wanted to call and talk to me about it every week.
We've been watching Lost with my son; he likes it, and it's a fun thing to do together. I complain every night about the slow pace: we're just at the beginning of season 3 so it's not in the full on stupid fantasy phase just yet.
Then there's a class of things that lots of people I know seem to view as formative things from their youth -- Gödel, Escher, Bach, or The Princess Bride, or... I know I have more examples but they aren't coming to mind right now -- that I never read or watched at the time and don't really have any interest in catching up on.
89: tell people it's not the LaCoste alligator, but the insatiable crocodile of militant Islam
437: Given NYC firearms laws, I am in a similar position. I've thought about taking archery lessons, because archery is fun for similar reasons, but the only range in the city is out in Nowheresville, Queens.
Alternatively, I think I have a sling around here somewhere. Maybe I could just amble over to Central Park and go all David and Goliath on some tree stumps, until the cops come beat me to a cringing pulp.
It's my son's way of making sure dinner conversation is not about his homework, grades, college plans, girls he might like, or any of the other topics he doesn't want to talk about.
I spent the morning installing an interactive flippy book kiosk thing in the muilohcsorP, which was all akfaK postcards. Not as grumpy as you'd think, old Franz.
Hey, this one is something that I sort of hate, but I'm doing anyway -- organized youth sports. I firmly believe that it would be much better for children to develop physical skills and competence through being chased outside to play in a self-organized fashion with peers. On the other hand, that's not going to happen -- there aren't any other peers out in the nearby park waiting to play with them. So I spend a whole lot of time and money chasing around to organized activities, and feel like a complete tool for it, but the alternative is having motionless children who have watched everything on Youtube.
444: In unrelated news, my father and I often spend hours watching those Barrett-Jackson vintage car auctions on the Speed channel, guessing what the sale prices will be and wondering why guys rich enough to buy any of the seventeen extant Plymouth Barracuda convertibles cannot seem to afford long pants or shirts with collars.
everything on Youtube An excellent trick, since it's gaining something like 48 hours of video every minute.
448: It's amazing what you can accomplish with a Youtube-download plugin, VLC's speedup function, and enough speedballs to choke a goat.
You just need to open 2,880 windows, Ozymandias.
447 -- I used to tell young associates that they had a captive audience for developing their client acquisition and development skills -- the partners: if you can't talk a partner into letting you argue an interesting motion, how do you think you'll do trying to get some businessman to trust you to try his case?
Similarly, I view parent management as decent training for future boss management. Misdirection always beats dishonesty, on practical as well as moral grounds.
You're probably past the point of diminishing marginal return on that, Flip.
A vote here for archery. The two times I've done it very casually with a friend in possession of a bow, it was tremendously fun; I'm not clear on what would be more fun about using a firearm instead.
'round here, shooting ranges frequently have both a gun and a bow 'n' arrow section.
153: My comment didn't post. I have a Burberry jacket that I bought in a charity shop in England. It fits me amazingly well. The print on that is lighter than the current stuff. I feel like it's okay, because it was actually made in England instead of China, and it has some other sort of label which says "Austen Riggs" or something like that.
I wasn't allowed to own Magic: The Gathering cards, because my parents thought it was satanic (cause some of the cards said "sorcery" on them).
Then there's a class of things that lots of people I know seem to view as formative things from their youth -- Gödel, Escher, Bach, or The Princess Bride, or... I know I have more examples but they aren't coming to mind right now -- that I never read or watched at the time and don't really have any interest in catching up on.
Heh. That'll be my favourite book and my favourite film. Though I never saw The Princess Bride untill university. I have since seen it at least 30 times.
I would like to get firearms training. The perception aspect is part of what puts me off,* but it's also the cost issue (it might not be expensive, but it's not an expense I'm going to shell out now) and the fact that I don't want to own a gun and have to deal with all the rules about carrying it around (plus, there's real gun control here).
*But I don't think it's a big deal, in the way that wearing something visible would be. I'm not going to walk around brandishing a weapon.
I'm not clear on what would be more fun about using a firearm instead.
Shooting arrows up into the air to celebrate the outcome of a football game is both more dangerous and less satisfying than shooting a shotgun into the air for the same purpose.
I would like to get firearms training.
Why?
I am with 423 and 429. I can't really explain the book/film distinction; generally, I'll happily watch something about outer space or dragons on TV, if it's done well, but the idea of reading fantasy or scifi has always left me cold. Dunno why.
As for guns, I don't really know where to go, but I will say that the professional gun range people I've met are very serious and noncrazy. When I bought my house in a "bad" (not really) neighborhood, my realtor (!) advised getting a gun, just in case. I went and talked to guys at a gun shop/range, who were very emphatic that (a) you shouldn't get a gun for protection if you're not ready to use it (b) you probably shouldn't use it, and (c) if you really want to think about a gun for protection, you need a lot of training on both use and safety.
The first act of the Princess Bride is just perfect. The remaining two acts are a little spottier, though still good.
Hmm, my limited experience with professional gun range people has been that they are paranoid right-wingers. This may be a due to a low n, or geography.
Shooting arrows up into the air to celebrate the outcome of a football game is both more dangerous and less satisfying than shooting a shotgun into the air for the same purpose.
"Boris Dimitrovich, I have learned a great lesson today."
"Yeah, never shoot up in the air when you're standing under it."
(for Stormcrow)
89: tell people it's not the LaCoste alligator, but the insatiable crocodile of militant Islam
Now I need a polo shirt.
the insatiable crocodile of militant Islam
Mouseover text?
I've just always had guns, but aside from the hunter's safety class that was required for hunters under 16 or so, I've never had formal training. Safety training seems like a good idea, but I really don't see the point of training in how to use a gun for protection at home. A shotgun is about as simple as a machine gets. Plus, if someone breaks into your home and doesn't run away when you point the gun at them, you're going to lose regardless of how much training you've had.
Plus, if someone breaks into your home and doesn't run away when you point the gun at them, you're going to lose regardless of how much training you've had.
?
What if you shoot them with your shotgun? Who loses then?
Hmm, my limited experience with professional gun range people has been that they are paranoid right-wingers. This may be a due to a low n, or geography.
I used to go shooting occasionally with a friend who'd inherited a gun from his grandfather. At one point I asked the range master for tips on improving my accuracy. His response: "Just relax. It's like transcendental meditation."
My point is that most people breaking into your house will run away at the sight of a gun and that anybody who doesn't is probably especially likely to kill you.
Apparently, shotguns are terrible for home protection. Or that's what the gun range guys said, I'm trying to remember why.
What if you shoot them with your shotgun? Who loses then?
"Good, bad. I'm the guy with the gun."
Why?
Because? I'll admit to a little bit of concern about the whole lopsidedness in the arming of Americans, but actually I like the skill involved in target stuff. I'd do archery too; I had a very simple bow when I was a kid and used to shoot arrows at a makeshift hay-backed target a friend had in his backyard.
462: What am I, chopped liver?
Also, I forgot, I agree with comment 3. I'd probably have switched to Mac at some point except I couldn't stand the teary congratulations I'd get.
459.2: There was a Harper's magazine piece on this some time in the last few months; I'll see if I can find it.
It gave food for thought: the general premise was that the journalist had endeavored to become a trained firearms bearer, and his thought process and orientation to his environment changed enough consequently that he came out the other end with deep personal reservations.
Re: TV, there's lots of stuff that sounds interesting to me but I don't get into it because of time. I'd rather spend my time watching certain other TV shows or playing games. I've been playing less World of Warcraft over the past month than I did a year or two ago, but it's still an infinite timesuck.
437
I've remembered one for me though - Magic: The Gathering. I avoided playing it at school because I perceived the players as nerdy, which was a bit rich coming from me. Now I've played the Duels of the Planeswalker computer games and it turns out it's actually really fun. That said, I've still got no desire to play the real thing given the costs involved.
Heh. I mentioned way back in 98 that I'm curious about lots of gaming stuff, but the problem is that "I have enough trouble getting my gang of friends together for a regular or semi-regular thing we all already play as it is"? That's Magic. Good times. But, fair enough, I wouldn't recommend it for people with mortgages or children.
I think it's because they're particularly unwieldily indoors and likely to be grabbed; you're just about as likely to have the shotgun used on you. And apparently a lot of criminals react to "oh shit this guy is going to kill me" not by running away but by trying to kill you first. Hence the "don't keep a gun for home protection unless you're willing to use it."
444, 447: My son and I have watched Sons of Guns, about custom gunsmiths in East Baton Rouge, with positive conversational results.
I shoot a recurve bow and thoroughly enjoy it. I'd like to know how to handle guns, but having one in the house would make me nervous.
"The general consensus in the firearms community is that the pump action shotgun is the top choice for home defense."
I'd like to know how to handle guns, but having one in the house would make me nervous.
You shouldn't leave them on the porch. That's just asking for trouble.
I'd understood the advantage of shotguns in home defense is that you don't need to aim well and you're unlikely to kill a family member by shooting through a wall.
Obviously, the best protection is an automatic pistol strapped to your back with Christmas tape.
473.1: Of course not. However.
Is chopped liver really less desirable than whole liver? It's still liver.
I dunno, maybe I went to the weird liberal or anti-shotgun gun range. But these guys were very much in the business of coaching paranoid new gun users with a fear of criminals. Maybe it's that unless you really are unintimidated committed to doing the killing, the crook is likely to grab the gun from you?
Btw, the idea that I needed a gun for my house was just laughably stupid.
292: Order them online. There was a store near us that was sex positive for women with better products than the stuff in the drugstore. Found a couple of stores online. Mostly just use them for the convenience, but it does allow me to avoid any ick factor. Actually, GV was a super comfortable place to shop.
A friend of mine had a pump-action shotgun in his bedroom, for home defense. Another -- well, not friend. Another fellow hacker, one of the more insanely paranoid people I've ever met (he kept an emergency kit in his trunk which included a long rifle and plenty of ammo, and had wired his parents' yard with claymores, and that's not even get into his theories on how the US government was messing with his life) was visiting one time, and we were looking at something or other on a computer in the beshotgunned bedroom when we heard k-chunk k-chunk behind us. Turns out he was field-stripping the shotgun. Anyhow, his comment was relevant: "alternating buckshot and solid slugs! That's an excellent home defense load."
482: Oh, fair enough. Carry on!
474 cont'd: Right, I believe it's this, which is paywalled, unfortunately. Harper's is stubborn in this way.
Google turns up many hits on the article's title, and it appears that the author may have it available as a PDF at his own site here. The PDF loading is freezing up my browser.
"alternating buckshot and solid slugs! That's an excellent home defense load."
Also, it works for bucks even if used on the offense.
Skeet shooting is a lot of fun. Also, I think shotguns work fine for home protection, as well as for forcing the kid who knocked up your daughter to marry her.
As for a manly skin conditioner, I can recommend used motor oil.
Oh, I forgot: this was a pistol-stocked shotgun. So even handier in small apartments!
Btw, the idea that I needed a gun for my house was just laughably stupid.
Because you can easily take out any gang of criminals with your bare fists, right?
HOW MANY PEOPLE REALLY NEED GUNS FOR HOME DEFENSE?
wired his parents' yard with claymores
As his camp counselors sang madrigals in the background.
wired his parents' yard with claymores
This seems dangerous and unwise.
489: The PDF is working for me. Thanks. Interesting article, so far.
494: Well, it kind of depends. You don't want to be the only one on the block without a firearm. You'll get picked on.
496: When placing high explosives on residential property is outlawed, only outlaws and the parents of outlaws will have high explosives on their residential property.
496: paranoia and wisdom do not necessarily go together.
They may even be negatively correlated.
292: Order them online.
Alternatively, you could just remind yourself that the Walgreens employee doesn't give a shit.
You can get good deals if you buy in bulk online, though.
I probably shouldn't dump this, but it's such excellent proof of how nuts this guy was (I saw him recently; he seems to have calmed down). This is from an interview he gave to some random t-filers years ago. Some details have been changed or googleproofed:
I've also heard from a very reliable source down in DC that [ other guy ] was not kicked out of the military for hacking, but assigned to something called "Proj/ect: Mar/gold". Supposedly having to do with anti-hacker Cointelpro activity, However at this time I have no concrete proof of this.
Also, paranoid guy I think turned out to be trying to play ball with the feds in some half-assed way, so we might assume that all of this was weird projection.
They may even be negatively correlated.
That's just what they want you to think.
I'd understood the advantage of shotguns in home defense is that you don't need to aim well and you're unlikely to kill a family member by shooting through a wall.
Also, the distinctive sound of a 12-gauge pump chambering a shell is scary as hell to the person on the wrong end of it.
Alternatively, you could just remind yourself that the Walgreens employee doesn't give a shit.
I don't know about that. Back when I worked at People's Drug Store we all cared. We even wore buttons that read, "We Love Our Customers!"
I'm guessing he didn't really load up his parents yard with claymores, though.
Alternatively, you could just remind yourself that the Walgreens employee doesn't give a shit.
The drug stores keep running commercials about how they care so much they will save me if my doctor writes a script for Drano. I assume they note everything I buy as well as how well dressed I am when I buy gum.
503: You seem insufficiently paranoid, Sifu. He sounds to me like an agent provocateur.
OMG. This is even better! Google "The L/bertar/an Res/pons/b/lity of The Cyber/punk Mov/ment" (you know, once you ungoogleproof it).
507: eh, I never saw it in person, but I believe it. He was genuinely pretty insane, and bought heavily into militia-type hysteria (this would have been '93 or '94). The go-bag in his trunk was definitely real.
487: and someday, less moose but more evenly distributed. Jeez.
509: well, maybe. If so he was a singularly poor one.
I wasn't really pwned since 506 doesn't have a name.
The presence of a gun in the house sharply increases the chances of suicide, at least for males. Maybe it makes sense for women to have a gun in the house, I can see that, or if there's a crazy ex- or other peripheral and hostile agent.
Safe storage and quick access seem pretty well mutually exclusive.
Locally, burglars are either opportunistic teens or strung out dudes, unarmed. Local vicious stranger-perpetrated crimes have been via handymen identifying solitary elderly people. I guess in case of sustained disturbance of public order it would be reassuring to have one. But really, NYC has had blackouts and NO had a disastrous flood some years back-- how helpful were armed citizens in either of those instances?
Guns just seem like an out-in-the-country thing, possibly suitable for remote exurbs. A freon air horn and mace seems like a better combination, won't kill anyone if there's a family member trying to sneak back in after a bender or whatever. I can see learning how to use them and maybe having one locked away with ammunition separate. But the protection and revenge thing just seems like a power fantasy.
Swords. Everybody needs swords.
498: You don't want to be the only one on the block without a firearm. You'll get picked on.
Call me privileged, but in that scenario, you do your goddamned best to move out of the neighborhood.
Ixnay on the guns in general. Sorry. Take up archery if you enjoy aiming at and hitting stuff. Or darts or slingshots. Those are fun too. I'm not getting the "guns are more fun than bows and arrows" perspective. It's not really a macho power thing, is it? I mean, it's not, right?
I keep anvils suspended over the doorways at my house, in case my home is ever attacked by wily coyotes.
But the protection and revenge thing just seems like a power fantasy.
Pretty sure that this is right. I'm told that during the 1992 riots the men on my street with guns sat on their front porches brandishing them, thus protecting the street. But then it turns out that almost no residential streets suffered any serious damage anywhere anyway, so I'm skeptical that the guns were particularly important.
Ixnay on the guns in general. Sorry.
I... don't think it's up to you?
Wouldn't the coyotes bring the anvils, and then brain themselves with them?
I keep a powerfully repellent personality for home defense.
I'd also like to become skilled at throwing knives.
For home defense, I would think a big dog or two would be much better. Cats, however, are worthless, the little cowards.
The presence of a gun in the house sharply increases the chances of suicide, at least for males. Maybe it makes sense for women to have a gun in the house, I can see that
My sister committed suicide with a gun. Of course the gun was only in the house because she bought it for that purpose. A long waiting period, followed by protracted required pre-purchase training, followed by maybe another long waiting period sounds about right to me.
I'm not getting the "guns are more fun than bows and arrows" perspective
I've never even fired a real gun, but I'd think it works along the same line as driving a Corvette is more fun than driving a riding lawnmower.
Cats, however, are worthless, the little cowards.
Cats loading into a shotgun, on the other hand...
519: Parsimon is in on the Obama conspiracy!
It's all part--it's all part of a massive Obama conspiracy to deceive voters and hide his true intentions to destroy the Second Amendment in our country! Before the president was even sworn into office, they met and they hatched a conspiracy of public deception to try to guarantee his reelection in 2012.
I was actually meh about firing guns. Now, explosives, those are great. But guns per se? Meh. I suppose a machine gun could give it some extra kick, as it were.
I firmly believe that it would be much better for children to develop physical skills and competence through being chased outside to play in a self-organized fashion with peers.
I read a very good book several years back about the problems with organized youth sports, and why it's important to make them more fun and less focused on competition. It's a book that I would want to recommend to people but I've unfortunately forgotten the title and author.
I just remember that the author was briefly a professional basketball player in the early 80s so I'll occasionally glance through rosters at basketball-reference.com to see if any of the names ring a bell.
It's kind of annoying, actually. I thought that the internet was supposed to make it so that one would never forget information like this.
I'm not getting the "guns are more fun than bows and arrows" perspective. It's not really a macho power thing, is it? I mean, it's not, right?
I've only fired a gun once (hunter safety course in 8th grade gym class), but it is certainly different from bow and arrow. In a way that I could definitely imagine as "more fun".
Shooting junked cars and dumped appliances is really fun.
Cats, however, are worthless, the little cowards.
With a shotgun loaded for birds, it's kind of like pointillism, but with holes.
It takes real skill to make sure the cats hit their target claws-first.
I found bows and arrows to be more fun, in a physical, connected way. Rifles just sort of make a hole where you point them, and handguns stubbornly refuse to do so.
532: Stupid cat let the bear just walk away with the trash.
Also, if you watch just one animal-themed video today, I recommend the video in 532.
I'm not getting the "guns are more fun than bows and arrows" perspective.
Guns have smoke and fire and go "BOOM!"
That's totally more fun.
Bows and arrows do have the advantage of re-usable ammunition. Bullets are expensive, especially since the post-Obama election run on ammunition.
That cat must be some kind of crazy anti-taxer to object to the weekly trash pick-up. I wonder what bear taxes are like in that area. It sounded like the woman was speaking French, so probably pretty high.
For home defense, I would think a big dog or two would be much better.
Our neighborhood cop says that dogs are by far the best home protection, and, indeed, the majority of people (myself included) seem to have a dog or two. More of a pain in the ass than a shotgun, but less deadly.
529. Bob Bigelow is the author. Making the least frequent term in a multi-term search required helps choose good terms fast (+NBA organized kids sports)
Following various animal video links led me to an episode in the ongoing battle between ducks and wind.
in case my home is ever attacked by wily coyotes
I saw a real roadrunner the other day! It ran out from some bushes right in front of me and hung around for a while. I've never seen one up close IRL. It was pretty cool.
543: Cool! Did it look like this?
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-NM-Misc/LasCrucesRoadRunner.jpg
On preview, the discussion has moved on to cats, but I'd written this.
525: I've never even fired a real gun, but I'd think it works along the same line as driving a Corvette is more fun than driving a riding lawnmower.
That's what I'm not getting. I agree with eggplant's 535, that bows and arrows are more fun, in a physical, connected way. If it's about mindfulness and focus, stance and being grounded, seriously, archery has that already. It is not like driving a rider mower, silly. Guns are more like point and shoot (hopefully in the proper direction, with focus and all that, but unless you intend to become a marksman, mostly brandish and point and shoot, which seems like a dumbhead maneuver to me).
529. Bob Bigelow is the author.
Thank you, I was hoping that somebody would be able to do just that.
For the record, then, I recommend Let The Kids Play by Bob Bigelow.
My own experience of youth soccer was fine, so I don't have a personal stake in the argument but I think it's a well written, believable, and persuasive book.
I would love to see an armadillo in the wild, as well as this car-sized ancestor
546: You're over thinking this so much that you may as well join an a capella group.
It is not like driving a rider mower, silly.
My riding mower is equipped with forward and rear-facing .50 caliber machine guns.
(I don't actually own a lawn mower of any sort, but instead pay somebody else to mow my tiny lawn. I'm a job creator, you lazy hippies.)
I'd also like to become skilled at throwing knives.
Frustratingly, infuriatingly, maddeningly impossible.
Shotguns do have the disadvantage Halford mentioned. Harder to wield in tight spaces and can't easily be wielded one handed. Realistically most people want to be able to have the gun in hand and still go around the house checking things. Power factor is top notch though. The "don't need to aim well" aspect is only partially true due to the longer barrel but most rounds don't start to pattern until 20+ feet so don't count on that. Use 00 or 000 buck. Alternating types of ammo is for mall ninja idiots. Slugs are for hunting, longer distance shots (25-100 yards), and shooting dudes who are wearing body armor.
Keeping a gun in your house for home defense Alternating types of ammo is for mall ninja idiots.
Those pleistocene megafauna don't get enough attention, compared to dinosaurs. Giant Orangutans!
552: You mean the clear, detailed explanation of combat knife throwing in the Travis McGee books doesn't work in practice? I feel betrayed.
553 was me
unless you intend to become a marksman, mostly brandish and point and shoot, which seems like a dumbhead maneuver to me
Unless you intend to be a marksman, shooting arrows is mostly just glorified throwing pointy sticks at things which seems like a dumbhead maneuver to me.
Parsimon everybody agreed with you in the first place. We were making jokes.
You mean the clear, detailed explanation of combat knife throwing in the Travis McGee books doesn't work in practice? I feel betrayed.
Tell me about it, sister.
[S]hooting arrows is mostly just glorified throwing pointy sticks at things which seems like a dumbhead maneuver to me.
No way, man! Atlatls rule!
Back on the subject of the OP, this is funny.
shooting arrows is mostly just glorified throwing pointy sticks at things which seems like a dumbhead maneuver to me
Basically that's why I like it.
Parsimon speaks for me on the subject of guns. The disappearance in the U.S. of any possibility of meaningful gun control saddens me.
559: I'm actually relieved to hear that, so thanks.
There is no political football but politicalfootball and parsimon is his/her/their prophet.
Many of my son's friends are pretty well armed. His mother was pretty alarmed to hear that he and another HS senior were heading out to goof around with a couple of AK-47s.
Thirty years ago, my dad gave me a shotgun. Not long after, in view of an impending visit from my out-of-town girlfriend, I traded the gun for a waterbed. I'd make that deal again.
Took a German visitor this summer to the hunting supply megastore out on the strip (I needed to get a tribal permit). He had some fun handling various firearms, but did have to be told, repeatedly, 'don't point that thing like that, even if you're sure it's unloaded.' He's an eye doctor, so his Bunderwehrdienst didn't include handling guns.
I'm sure he knows not to run with scissors.
Well, I think he did Zivildienst anyway.
I needed to get a tribal permit....
Racist?
Speaking of guns, the NRA recently gave a speech that basically said "Obama isnt fooling us by doing every single thing we want. We know that his actions in doing [insert list of 10 things very pro-gun rights] are really evidence of his conspiracy to take away our guns."
Speaking of guns, the NRA recently gave a speech that basically said "Obama isnt fooling us by doing every single thing we want. We know that his actions in doing [insert list of 10 things very pro-gun rights] are really evidence of his conspiracy to take away our guns."
Speaking of guns, the NRA recently gave a speech that basically said "Obama isnt fooling us by doing every single thing we want. We know that his actions in doing [insert list of 10 things very pro-gun rights] are really evidence of his conspiracy to take away our guns."
This is what happens when you don't let go of the trigger.
There's surprisingly little that I will, out of shame, decline to buy. I like buying stuff. I could probably come up with a lot more if the question were about things that I am squeamish to publicly admit I find repugnant.
This is what happens when you don't let go of the trigger leave your piece on the three round burst setting.
Come one, someone go buy a shotgun just for fun. This is a good package.
During my year of depression and boredom in Germany, I went a few times to an archery club where the instructor taught me (very seriously, as this is how Germans take their hobbies) how to center myself, hold myself, and do all that other zen-of-target-practice stuff. I was pretty decent for my lack of experience or seriousness.
This in no way translated to guns. Last summer up in the Yukon, we all took turns firing off a .22 and I sucked. (Granted, a tin can is smaller than an archery target, but still: my nine year-old nephew was better.) It was neat to go *bang* the first couple of times, but I got bored quickly.
neat to go *bang* the first couple of times, but I got bored quickly
Shoot any low hanging fruit, too?
578: Something Lee Marvin something Charles Bronson something Death Hunt something.
Flippanter, you might enjoy this, if you haven't seen it already.
I passed on the opportunity to inherit a gun or two from my stepfather when he passed recently. Even aside from the hassles of getting the permits required, I couldn't see much use for the hunting rifles here in the city, and (in the spirit of the OP!) I didn't really want to be the kind of person who owned a TEC-22. I'm not sure my stepfather wanted to be that kind of person, either - until he died, nobody knew he had that one.
Depending on where you are, you may not need a permit for the hunting rifles. A TEC-22 is six kinds of stupid and should be avoided.
The TEC-22 looks ugly and useless, which is why I protect my home and person with eighteenth century French dueling pistols.
My other half was practicing with his first air rifle, up north at the home place, and realized after an afternoon that he certainly couldn't tell if it wasn't trued in or if he was a terrible shot. Fortunately my mother had a moment, and she up and nailed the target six times to clarify the question.
I haven't wanted to push on whether she practiced with her guns -- she's less well armed than most of her neighbors, but that means no claymores -- but now am not worried.
things that I am squeamish to publicly admit I find repugnant. Yep, that's a worse conversation than the Hamlet Game.
I like shooting guns at targets, because I think doing skillful things well is fun. And practicing to become more skillful is also fun.
I also like eating meat that other people kill, although I don't really have the patience/stamina to do the hunting myself. I feel guilty about this, though, and irritated by people who get all "ewww blood and guts! I could NEVER!" but still eat meat as long as somebody else does the dirty work.
I think it would be terrible for everyone if guns were outlawed. Who knows when we'll need a citizen uprising? Better armed than sorry! (being from Montana makes it hard to be friends with normal liberals).
WTF people? guns are a million times more fun than arrows! and there is a zen meditation aspect involved. shotguns are preferred for home defense because the sound of you chambering a round or snapping it back together is supposed to make people run away, which, probably. I'd rather have a powerful handgun, honestly. dude is going to be prettyclose to you, right? and maybe have friends? I wouldn't buy a gun in the states because I'm still worried I'd impulsively off myself. my first line of home protection would be a--what are we calling pit bulls now? american something terriers? that. we've had them forever, they're lovely, gentle dogs. gentle with your family and whomever you deem OK. but isn't that what you want in a dog?
flippanter, far be it from me to suggest anything illegal, but you do know you can drive down I-95 to lovely south carolina and purchase a firearm and tons of ammo and make a modest effort to hide them (in the seats or some shit, not the door panels) and drive back to new york? not speeding, and looking all white and stuff (you're awesome at that, no false modesty here). but now that I think about it, how'd everyone in my family in ny get all those shotguns? I've been skeet shooting in ny plenty of times.
FWIW I'm prepared to believe both in the claymores and the madrigals. sure, why the fuck not. I assume he toldhis parents some shit, right?
His parents were EMTs and worked the night shift. I assume they were oblivious? I always figured it was less of a full perimeter than that he'd gotten his hands on a couple claymores somehow and stuck 'em in the yard until somebody prevailed on him to be less stupid.
He lived in his parents' basement, is either worth mentioning or totally redundant information.
I protect my home and person with eighteenth century French dueling pistols
I find the white gloves used to slap people while challenging them to a duel are a sufficient deterrent. If necessary, the duel can always be scheduled for just after the waiting period.
but now that I think about it, how'd everyone in my family in ny get all those shotguns?
It's only in NYC proper that there's licensing and registration nonsense on long guns. At the state level you can buy a rifle or shotgun without permits so long as you aren't a felon.
My recollection from when a shopkeeper nearby shot some kids who were robbing the store, is that for shotguns in the city you only need to register them, not get a license. (The guy had the gun for 40 years and never registered it and so there was some discussion in the media about whether he'd get charged with a crime. The upshot was it wasn't a crime, just a violation like a parking ticket.)
At the state level you can buy a rifle or shotgun without permits so long as you aren't a felon.
Kind of a problem when it comes to future/not-quite-yet/would-be felons, surely?
I'm all about nanny-state licensing, for both cars and guns. You should have to demonstrate that you are fit to operate a vehicle, or a firearm, in the interests of safety and sanity, and for the general welfare of the other members of your society.
Now here's a gun story!
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/article_0e90f552-eb0f-11e0-a2fa-001cc4c03286.html
I'm confused by the discussion of Claymores. Do you mean these (not cool) or these (every home should have one, ideally over the fireplace in the great hall, under the Irish Elk horns)?
Looking all white and stuff (you're awesome at that, no false modesty here)....
I had a tan line for, like, a week and a half!
594: A campaign for the right to simultaneously smoke dope and carry firearms. Hunter Thompson, you should be living at this hour!
Thanks for the well wishes, will. I had a nice day. And happy belated to Teo.
re: 595
A mate of mine used to have a basket-hilt sword in the house. I think it had been his grandad's [he was in the Black Watch]. Swords are excellent fun when you are ten.
600: Swords are excellent fun when you are ten.
Let's be honest.
Swords are excellent fun when you are ten.
Yeah they are. I fucked up my great-grandfather's katana something fierce slicing airborne apples in twain and so on.
601 is true, yeah.
No katanas in our house, but we did have my granddad's Britsh Army machete.
A bunch of my mom's grandfather's stuff is in a museum in Georgia. We were passing through maybe 15 years ago, so I called ahead. They closed the place, and took us to the full collection in storage: including a Toledo saber he'd 'liberated' from a Moro cavalryman (I guess they did have them) in 1898. Man did that swing well.
A friend did a course on war [one of his modules for his history degree] at Glasgow and they got to go down to the store-room at the Kelvingrove and mess about with swords, put on armour and stuff. I was jealous.
My granddad's sword (WWI) sat in the umbrella stand in his flat until he died. I've know idea what happened to it after that. Is/was it legal to flog that sort of thing through the small ads? (This was 1960, no eBay)
I keep my other grandfather's swagger stick (same war) around for reaching electrical switches that are behind furniture and stuff now that I'm not too mobile. It works a treat.
My grandfather missed with wars so his only sword was from the Knights of Columbus. They don't sharpen those.
Guns are fun. I also think they're one of those tools that everyone should have at least a passing familiarity with how to handle/use safely, like most woodshop tools (or, for that matter, cars). Sure they have the potential for hurting someone, but part of being an adult is learning how to be responsible enough to follow safety procedures with dangerous things.
Claymores make me think of the Old 97s.
That link starts improving asymptotically with:
I've found an entire e-book devoted to selecting the optimal weapon. It's called rexGun by Stephen W. Templar, who explains he's spent countless hours since childhood dreaming about shooting a T. rex.
Also, I wish more modern weapons had names of archaic weapons, besides claymore and mace. How about "guisarme" for anti-tank guns?
I know I've told this already, but my parents had a big-time drug-dealer friend who used to let us look at the catalog for cigarette boats and choose for him (he ditched them, so he was always needing new ones). He kept a loaded...not AK-47, I think it was the US equivalent after they stopped sucking, M16 or something, by his bed. we did play with it as children, but were unharmed because our parents taught us:
always assume a gun is loaded
don't point the gun at anyone you don't want to shoot, and
keep your finger off the trigger until you decide to fire.
if I hadn't already shot plenty of guns I might have gotten hurt, but since I had, we were fine. I also decreed that my brother and his friend Jefferson Lee were, at 4, too young to play with it.
adds to emerson's book demand, I suppose. sad that at 7 I had better gun safety than a lot of fucking cops appear to right now. your finger's supposed to be resting outside the trigger area, all straight and shit! how do they keep fucking this up? reading radley balko willmake you depressed about our police state. quote from my narnian business partner, who lives in CA for 10 years: "your country is just fucked up."
my brother and his friend confederate Jefferson Lee
FTFY.
614.last, 616: Prudently avoiding giving new meaning to "Rebel rebel, your face is a mess."
yeah, chicks with their heads blown off are a big turn-off. stanley: I walked into that one.
