And women who want to meet guys? Get a gun and go down to the dump to shoot rats!
(An adaptation of a Dear Abby letter: "The counselor said we should share interests, but it makes me sick to my stomach to go down to the dump and shoot rats.")
The moral of the story isn't that guys should take classes. It's that guys should move to NYC.
I fell going down an easy move mountain biking this weekend. A women's mountain biking class was using the move as a demonstration, and I was too busy checking out the participants to notice the rock in front of my tire. Whoops.
They start getting cute because there's no one else to look at
And they say romance is dead.
Honestly i don't think there is ia quicker way to turn off a girl than to have similar interests.
Honestly i don't think there is ia quicker way to turn off a girl than to have similar interests.
That sounds like a challenge.
My husband claims to have used this strategy to great effect in high school by taking honors English rather than physics.
Yeah, women who shoot rats probably like guys who do interior decorating and shit.
I've thought about taking classes, like in kitchen knife skills or something, in which I have some genuine interest, but then I don't because it seems like the subtext is always "I am pathetically desperate."
And, you know, expressing interest in women is gay.
You know, Ogged, you should want women to like you for who you really are.
Nothing's more attractive than desperation, ogged. Plus, why do you think they're there? You should do it, and then report back.
In the interest of increasing the number of rat-shooting comments in this thread, I am reminded of this movie, which has a great date scene involving shooting at rats (and at trains).
Call me, Timbot. I'll send you plane tickets and reserve us a spot.
I suggested this to my roommate, and he went through with it. Says they were all married. On the upside for me, now he makes Indian food at home.
If I took a class, of course I'd check out all the hotties, but I'd be expecting to meet some cool middle-aged and recently retired ladies.
Ogged, my Whole Foods advertises that knife skills class too. I think it's a trick to lure in guys who associate knives with "cool, manly stuff" and not with cooking.
Hmm, w/d, I don't think I saw it advertised at Whole Foods, and I was interested because it takes me for-fucking-ever to cut up a chicken breast to my satisfaction.
I wouldn't have expected Woody to be the rat-shooting movie guy. Maybe the Coen brothers.
I admit that the last time I took a class, discounting grad school once I entered it later, I wound up being hit on by two guys in the class. Well, the instructor and a fellow student.
The subject matter makes a difference: this was a German-for-reading course.
But that was many years ago.
besides, everyone hated me in first grade when i corrected the teacher, how could it work out better now?
shit, I could have sworn I closed that bold tag. Should close after "a" class.
I talked to a Korean-American guy last year who said that his entire cooking class (in NYC) was made up of single guys. He was divorced, and eager to meet someone -- he was quite bummed about it.
Does Viking have stores in CA? I know some of their locations offer (very high-end) cooking classes.
Am I right in assuming that this does not apply to classes that require physical activity? (tai chi, rock climbing)
The rock-climbing classes in Sacramento are reputedly all women.
Knife skills classes are totally useful and I recommend them to everyone. One caveat - plan to budget about $150 in addition to the cost of the course because it will make you realize that half of the problem is that your knives are shit and you need new ones.
Do they teach you how to throw knives?
Ogged, play Ultimate. Hit on all of the girls.
26: but the upside is good knives are vastly cheaper now than they were. No need for fancy german hand forged nonsense anymore.
26: but the upside is good knives are vastly cheaper now than they were. No need for fancy german hand forged nonsense anymore.
Yeah, a guy taking a rock-climbing class would be admitting that he doesn't already know how to rock-climb - tough to be dominant that way.
Although our Ultimate clinics are two-thirds men, come to think of it.
Do they teach you how to throw knives?
That's a different class. A friend of mine in high school was really into knife throwing. He was a little weird.
My gf and I are going to take a cooking class. (preferably Indian food) None of you people better hit on her!
Call me, Timbot. I'll send you plane tickets and reserve us a spot.
I'm not sure that having me around is going to increase your chances of HMS, ogged.
Embarrassing story time! When I first moved to Virginia right out of college, I took a sushi making class from the local community organization. I was partnered with this guy and we got along well and shared some laughs so I asked him if he wanted to go to a bar or something afterwards for a drink. He said he'd be up for a coffee but couldn't stay out too late because he had class in the morning. Class? Where? George Mason? No, at Chantilly High School. (We did not have coffee. Yes, the irony of this story has not been lost on me. Shut up.)
Wait, Becks is a Virginian now?
Does "Becks' style" mean "with grace and good manners?"
38: For a while I was going to pickup curling at an ice sheet beside the local university. I was chatting away with a cute teammate, it was good. She mentioned that she was on one of the US Olympic teams - either skiing or ice skating, I forget which. That's hott. We keep chatting, things are great. A friend of her walked over and mentionned that she was on the US Junior team. Ouch.
Church is like this too. There are a ton more women in church than men. Any man with any vestigial religion, that is, anyone who's not a committed atheist should go to church to meet women. You can even get laid doing that, if you pick the right denomination. Agnostics who are almost atheists shoudl consider the Unitarians.
Man, y'all are making me think about this now. I should take a class! In what?
The problem is that once you become slightly older (late 30s, 40s), it seems that more and more of the men who throw a glance your way are in their 60s. It's depressing when it's not amusing.
I figure, drumming. At the local UU church. They're all a bunch of freaks there. That's good.
will--Becks's company is Beltway-based. She used to live in Virginia for tax purposes, but now she's a resident of the flophouse in D.C. She lives in a corporate apartment in New York.
(Becks--I'm not stalking you; I just have a good memory for personal details.)
Parsimon:
The cool thing about being in your late 30's is that all sorts of new dating possibilities are opening up due to divorce.
Maybe I should start a post-divorce announcement list that I send to a paying mailing list. Hey, I like that idea.
I should take a class! In what?
Beermaking.
Just hypothetically for the sake of conversation, would the knife skills classes be useful for someone who found they had to dissect a body?
Charismatic churches and prosperity churches are also good places to pick up girls. These churches are fanatically heterosexual.
will: this is not an unambigously good thing.
Ding ding ding! BG gets the prize for paying attention.
I hear there are lots of available guys in strip clubs.
9: For a smart guy, you're a brainless dolt.
48: You want taxidermy classes, John.
48: this is not an unambiguously good thing.
"will: this is not an unambigously good thing."
More dating prospects aren't a good thing?
Of course divorce isn't always a good thing.
Ogged, you should totally sign up for this 12-class series. I took it last session and Josh is taking it this time around. (There's also a separate 3-class series in knife skills, but I don't think they're offering it until fall.)
In my series, there were plenty of guys and a mix of both attached and unattached people, so you'll blend in and won't automatically look desperate. You get a lecture, a packet of tips and recipes and then go off to food stations and cook, giving you plenty of non-skeezy opportunities to mingle ("Hey, you want to try making cornbread? Me too!). The class groups continue to get together after the series is over, so you'll have that hottie's e-mail address even if you've self-cockblocked all session. And you'll learn lots of skillz you can pass off as respectably manly, like playing with knives and grilling. (I went to two BBQ parties towards the end of my session and that grill was PWNED, baby.)
There's probably still room. Go sign up now!
The cool thing about being in your late 30's is that all sorts of new dating possibilities are opening up due to divorce.
Oh lord, is this the truth.
Of course divorce isn't always a good thing.
It's good to see that you disagree with this divorce lawyer, will.
Has anyone read Maud Hart Lovelace? I just realized that BG reminds me of the Bonnie Andrews character.
(This is a compliment, BG.)
45: Nay.
46: Divorced men, okay, true. Do they take drumming classes and date women who don't shave their legs? We'll see.
Magpie's class sounds like fun.
But $680? I guess this is a reminder that are economic constraints on the spectrum of romantic opportunities available to me, on top of those constraints placed by my various "issues."
46, 49, 55 -- My first instinctive response is, "Yeah, but if they're divorced, there must be something wrong with them."
Then I remember I'm divorced.
Yeah, that's three hours with the NSFW Casey. Choose wisely.
Yeah, but then so's your ex, so you're even.
Oh, we're not even yet... But we will be...
65: Yeah, you do get all kinds of princess attitude from those cooking class women.
Hey, thanks for the Becks-primer, BG. I've been trying to figure out why she's all NYC lately, trying to recall the Flophouse roster, etc.
Yeah, but if they're divorced, there must be something wrong with them.
Heh. I consider myself sort of twice-divorced, except that I never actually married those guys, so the divorce was less problematic, even if the division of property, esp. the music collection, wreaked havoc.
People with longish-term relationships behind them make sense; someone in his/her late 30s or 40s without one would strike me as odd.
Should I take a dance class? (General question.)
I mean, are you talking about a specific class? But I can't think of a dance class you shouldn't take.
You should not take a dance class that consists entirely of the foxtrot, as I did once.
Pdf: Yes, but scout it out before you sign up. Most places will let you take a trial class, which is a lot less expensive in time and money.
Also consider universities, which often have cheap summer dance classes with open enrollment. There's a casual one near me that allows people to drift in and out -- there are always a good 20+ people in class, though the individuals vary.
Guys shouldn't take bellydancing but I've had a couple of friends who got a lot out of bellydancing after recovering from breast cancer or dealing with infertility. They said it really helped them get back in touch with their bodies and feel like a woman again. Other people's mileage may vary, but I've heard it enough that I've started tenatively recommending it to people going through similar issues.
Hey Becks, why not drop by Twisty's with that advice?
I'm sorry. She just had a heart-breaking "surviving cancer is worse than anything except not surviving it" post, and it didn't sound to me like she was a bellydance away from happiness.
Obviously, different strokes, etc.
61, 63: It is a little spendy, but (assuming you're there for the cooking and not just the women) worth every penny if you can afford it.
71: Look for a ballroom dancing club in your area. They often offer free classes beforehand, and they're crawling with women who need dance partners.
How painful are these dance class things for people with neither rhythm nor coordination (but a good heart...) Hypothetically.
So where do all the men spend their free time? They don't take classes, they don't go to church, they don't volunteer for stuff--surely they're not all either at strip clubs or staring slack-jawed at the teevee? Because that just makes me glad that dating girls is an option for me. In fact, this article talks not at all about whether there are any lesbians taking these classes; maybe classes are a mad pick-up scene and the reporter just didn't mention it.
59: Witt, I haven't read anything by Maud Hart Lovelace. Actually, I hadn't even heard of her. Her wikipedia page doesn't go into much detail about her books' characters. Where does this Bonnie Andrews character appear?
Well, Ogged swims, as do a surprising number of other men... beyond that, beats me.
surely they're not all either at strip clubs or staring slack-jawed at the teevee?
Well I am, or at work, but I'm sure there must be guys who do other things.
Most single guys I know have regular basketball/swimming/etc. Hell, golf takes up an entire afternoon or morning. Beyond that, sports on TV and video games take up pretty much any remaining time.
Oh, and soulful poetry. Don't let him hide that from you, girls. Keep asking until he reads you some.
I saw "Shall We Dance" with Richard Gere and J Lo. I guess that was an OK movie. (My standards aren't terribly high.) I'd hope that the participants in a real-life class would be a little more coordinated than that, on average. But it did look pretty interesting.
87: I haven't seen that movie, but I saw the Japanese original. It was pretty good. Apparently ballroom dancing is considered a somewhat scandalous activity in Japan.
Yeah, the Japanese one was lovely. The Gere remake looked pretty awful.
81.---That's going to depend entirely on the class. You'd want a beginning level, maybe an "introduction to X," and you'd want to sit in for a class to make sure that people were having fun and being kind to each other. Seriously, if fewer than five people talk to you from the class, there's some kind of asshole spirit there.
So where do all the men spend their free time?
Taking this seriously. You mean the single men who are in your age group -- and you're in your early 30s?
I don't know any more about the early 30s. The late 30s/early 40s single men I know mostly hang out (when they're not just at work or collapsed in front of the tv) with friends working on, or talking about, projects of mutual interest.
For example, my roommate, in his early 40s, is a self-employed artist. He meets with friends to talk about their fixer-upper sailboats, or goes to an art opening, or to pick up some scrap steel for one of his sculptures. Or goes over to our local coop farm to try to repair their faulty farm tractor; or to a board meeting at the farm. Or over to the university he got his MFA from, to help a grad student construct pedestals for her upcoming thesis show.
If a woman wanted to meet him, she'd have to be involved in an organic farm or in the local art scene.
In other words, as far as I know, most of the people you'd want to meet, you need to meet in their own territories of interest. (Frowner, it sounds like you already do this.)
This is not rocket surgery.
. The Gere remake looked pretty awful.
Well, I liked it. But my taste runs to the plebeian. And the Gere-ish.
82: Video games and sports. If I were on the dating market, I'd spend a lot less time playing video games and a lot more time contra dancing.
The trick is how to pull this off if your (and their) territory of interest is, in fact, sitting slack jawed in front of the teevee.
So where do all the men spend their free time?
In my 20's to mid-30's cohort, single guys can spend amazing amounts of time on sports. Playing, watching, drinking beer around, we're not picky.
And work.
Huh. I was thinking of taking some classes at the Crucible this summer. It had honestly not occurred to me to look for guys to hit on, but I guess that might actually work quite well indeed.
Ogged, any chance you want to take welding with me?
How painful are these dance class things for people with neither rhythm nor coordination (but a good heart...) Hypothetically.
IME, the most informal ones are the least stressful. For example, the college ones I mentioned upthread? In any given group of 20, you'll have:
-Four members of the competitive ballroom dance team (earning brownie points by being there for beginner class)
- A half-dozen undergrads who don't know what to do with themselves now that their roommates have gone home for the summer
- Three or four grad students who are at a similar loose end (n.b. mostly international and thus with sexy accents, if you go for that sort of thing)
- A handful of "adults" (mostly university staff; I've never seen any faculty but there are some folks from the neighborhood who are totally unaffiliated with the college)
Classes are set up so that you change partners every few minutes. The good dancers help the less-good ones, and no matter how little rhythm you think you have, there will always be an adorably gawky 17-year-old to out-bumble you.
Ogged, any chance you want to take welding with me?
You're so dirty.
Where does this Bonnie Andrews character appear?
She's a minor character in Lovelace's best-known series, the Betsy-Tacy books. I was thinking of you in part because of the physical description (Bonnie is described as being petite but voluptuous, with dark hair, I think) and in part because of personality. Bonnie is a warm, thoughtful person who remembers small details about others and has a distinct air of good breeding. I think she is a minister's daughter, actually.
I can't remember whether she has loopy family issues of her own to deal with or whether she's just always loyally unflappable in the face of her friends' loopy family issues.
Anyway, you get the idea.
91: Well, actually, I have a fellow at the moment. (We're sorta-kinda non-monogamous, so I do tend to look around a bit from time to time....) (This kind of contradicts my usual "Troll-like Frowner, miserable and alone in her cave" narrative, I admit.)
But yeah, the single people you meet at age 30 are a very, very mixed bag. I meet more of them than most, I think, because of activism; the allure is sharply limited.
96, 99: Are you guys making Flashdance jokes?
There are lots and lots of young, unattached men in my Krav Maga classes, but they're not really there to meet women...and I'm not likely to pick up any gents myself if they admire athletic excellence and/or decent roundhouse kicks.
I was serious with the "beer-making" suggestion, if it's available where you are.
Are media outlets in collusion today or something? On the front of Yahoo, 10 Tips for Approaching Women
Shoulders back, chest out! Use a light and playful tone!
lots of young, unattached men in my Krav Maga classes
I'll bet there are.
104 was me.
One good way to meet boring yet friendly men in early middle age is to join a birdwatching society. On the other hand, some birdwatching societies are entirely grey-haired.
There are lots and lots of young, unattached men in my Krav Maga classes
Awesome. "Hey, wanna go back to my place and watch Enough?
Shoulders back, chest out! Use a light and playful tone!
So awesome.
106 - There was one cute dude, but then we got partnered up and I had to punch him in the groin before we'd even been properly introduced. When your contact starts with, "It's okay, I'm wearing a cup" it's hard for the relationship to really take off.
94:
The trick is how to pull this off if your (and their) territory of interest is, in fact, sitting slack jawed in front of the teevee.
Film festival.
But, no, there's probably no help for this. If you're slack-jawed, you're exhausted. So.
I recommend the church.
uh. Work past/through the exhaustion somehow.
Been taking latin dance classes for six months now, which has been a excellent reminder of my lack of coordination both physically and socially. I persist in the hope that I will eventually figure out the a) cross-body lead into an outside turn-dip!; and b) how to make a "pass", the details of which have eluded me for too long.
Also - less boring than running.
When your contact starts with, "It's okay, I'm wearing a cup"
Even more awesome.
I've taken exactly one martial arts class in my life, freshman year of college, and I got paired up with an attractive woman who I promptly punched in the gut.
The trick is how to pull this off if your (and their) territory of interest is, in fact, sitting slack jawed in front of the teevee.
Depends on how geeky you are. I know a guy who met his s.o. at a Firefly meetup. No, wait, it was a fundraiser for Equality Now at which they screened Serenity.
From the link in 105:
You could also begin in a serious tone, accusing her of something like "I hope you saved some tuna for me"
Oh that's great. I have to go to the grocery store this weekend--I should try this.
I can't wait till they run the same ten points under the title "How to Recognize a Stalker."
You're supposed to be able to meet single people at my food co-op (14,000 members!) but as far as I can tell, they're all married and newly daddies, ancient irascible urban hippies, or ultra-cool video-artist/rockstar types. The kinds of guys I like are not into organic food or socialist regimes, I guess.
From the Yahoo! thing: "8. Do not fidget. Fidgeting after you approach is distracting and shows you are uncomfortable."
Am I the only one who finds fidgeting extremely attractive?
One good way to meet boring yet friendly men in early middle age
Ned, is this supposed to be relevant in some way?
You're so dirty.
Not yet, but I will be.
Are you guys making Flashdance jokes?
I've actually never seen that.
I didn't really understand the drill, and I didn't want to be sexist, so...POW!
I didn't want to be sexist
Even as a freshman, always overthinking it.
Awesome, ogged. That might be an all-new standard for auto-cock-blockage.
Wow, 124 reads more harshly than I intended. Pretend I said "That's actually kind of endearing."
The kinds of guys I like are not into organic food or socialist regimes
Hey!! I'm your guy. I'm not into any of that. (Well, there is the married, ancient, irascible and former hippie thing, so, oh well . . . )
I met my wife at a martial arts club in college. I was one of the instructors. The guy who started the club asked me to help, and I only accepted because I figured sooner or later hot girls would join. Success!
I didn't really understand the drill, and I didn't want to be sexist, so...POW!
Guys seem to really like it when I do that. I guess it tickles or something.
No seriously, once, a friend of mine was teaching me to punch and blocking my hand and then he got distracted and dropped his hand, and POW!, right in his chest. There was this silence and then he grimaced slightly and said, "Ow. I think you've learned enough for today," and I was like, woo-hoo! I managed to cause minor discomfort! It was disturbingly pleasing.
When your contact starts with, "It's okay, I'm wearing a cup" it's hard for the relationship to really take off.
Wouldn't that have been your second contact?
uh oh. I totally know you, don't I, gswift. . .
always overthinking it
So true. But I had in mind a pickup basketball game I'd played in high school that included some members of the girls team and I either threw a pass that hit one of the girls pretty hard, or bumped into one of them...in any case, I apologized and she was offended. Never again!
And that offended high school girl grew up to be . . . Bruce Bowen.
Whenever I'm partnered with guys, which is often because none of the girls are tall enough, I always try to be tough and tell them to kick and hit harder because I know they're pulling back. And then they do, and then I cry. Not really, but my tough act, it is paper thin.
uh oh. I totally know you, don't I, gswift. . .
Do you? I went to BYU. My handle is my first initial and last name.
You are so the problem with gender relations today, Susan.
132: It's best to treat women playing sports as if they're real human people. I hate the "special treatment" that comes down the pipes, even in grad school softball. I don't need silly compliments every time I catch something or make contact.
I try to communicate this by being the second-meanest trash-talker on the team, but it doesn't seem to help.
135:
whew. I was kidding, but only sort. Your comment could apply to like, half a dozen of my friends. But not any of the BYU graduates.
47: The beer-making class sounds like a good idea. Except, among beer-lovers, can I really compete with beer?
132: It's best to treat women playing sports as if they're real human people.
I dunno, I appreciate people taking into account my size and strength. But don't treat me any differently than you'd treat a guy my size and strength--or treat them better? Something like that.
I do have an unfortunate habit of pushing myself a little too much sometimes under the influence of guys. The other day a friend put a pull-up bar across his door jam and he looked totally amazing doing these leg-lifted pull ups. (It helps that he's both buff and hot.) And he tried to help me doing assisted pull ups, but it was like, barely possible. And I rationally know that it's no shame for me not to to be able to do pull ups, but I just really wanted to after watching him, and I think I tried to hard and I'm a bit sore still.
Except, among beer-lovers, can I really compete with beer?
I think among beer lovers, beer + other beer lovers is a very non-zero sum game.
I guess I fear that the kind of people who take classes to meet someone are thinking ahead to what they'll put in their wedding announcement or something. Like, would it even be possible to casually date someone you met in such a cutesy way? Maybe it depends on what the class is.
134.--Yes, banter-weight bravado can have sad unintended consequences.
144: I feel like maybe guys underestimate strength in women, but more importantly, they underestimate pain tolerance and overestimate need for approval. Or maybe this is just something that bothers me and I'm idiosyncratically annoyed.
As to where you can find the guys - riding / working on wheeled or motorized vehicles.
I'll take a welding class at the crucible with anyone from Unfogged who wants to go.
Are you people serious about a welding class? This would be pretty funny. But I'm never going to weld anything outside this class.
I think it would be fun to take a photography class. It's been 14 years since I worked in a darkroom, and it seems like there would be all kinds of obvious ways to hit on classmates.
137: aim for number 1.
I once took a machining class. Women were few and far between.
If I take a class, in drumming (skins) it'll be because I want to learn how to do that, because it grooves me.
I realize at the same time that it's also exactly the environment in which I'd be likely to meet someone I like.
So: not taking a class *in order to* meet someone.
Which seems to be different from what the original NYT article was suggesting, these silly women taking cooking or sailing classes in order to meet someone..
Normally I'm just a lurker, but the conversation seems to have strayed into my area of expertise, at least on the question of dance classes. I actually met my wife because of ballroom dancing.
In my experience (in college), dance classes are a very good way of meeting women. Most of the women in the classes are interesting, charming, and attractive people. Most of the men are either sketchy or gay. So, if you're not a totally sketchy, you'll stand out (in a good way). I'm told that women in these classes appreciate a guy who showers regularly, for example.
On the question of skill (or lack thereof), I would just say that you shouldn't let your belief in your limitations hold you back. First, of course, is that people appreciate sincerity, so really trying to learn is a good start. Second, some people respond well to the structure and support of partner dancing. For example, engineers and scientists seem to be heavily over-represented in ballroom.
So, where to do it? Witt has it pretty much right - a college class is the best way to do it. Not one actually sponsored by the school - you want a class put on by the school's ballroom club, if it has one. (This should work for swing dancing, too.) Your second choice should be a local dance studio. Unless you have no other choice, you should not go to a chain like Arthur Murray. You will not get good value for your money. E-mail me if you'd like some suggestions for your area.
Oh, and in my experience, there was a fairly decent age mix in the college ballroom classes. Obviously, undergrads were heavily represented, but (at least at the big state school I attended) grad students and others were pretty common, too.
OK, I've clearly gone on too long, even though I could probably babble for another 10 paragraphs on this. I do hope that you'll give the classes a try, because it really could be fun.
I actually am very serious, though in all likelihood I'll probably do machining and not welding, even though welding sounds like more fun. I can find things for you to weld, ogged.
155: Our meanest trash-talker is a gay dude. I am willing to let him take the glory on that one so I can seem reasonable in comparison.
But I'm never going to weld anything outside this class.
I once saw a CL post from a guy who offered to provide plumbing/welding services in exchange for sex. It was so entertainingly written that I think I nominated it for best-of.
Oops. I knew that.
And I thought you were making a clever joke.
162: I debated whether that was the case.
I'll take a welding class at the crucible with anyone from Unfogged who wants to go.
That would be a completely badass skill to have, but I'm afraid I'm male-identified enough as it is.
Unfortunately, I also bid like I wrestle. "Four spades! No, I mean five spades! I'll totally take you all down!" Hélas.
The welders I know--both male and female--never want for attention. Of course, they run with an art crowd, but then you-all might like that. All the nice girls love a welder, and vice versa.
Of course, the real irrestistables know how to cast things in bronze--that's how to have people at your feet, but it takes a lot of time and effort.
I am, actually, completely serious.
I'm mostly serious about the welding class, and am vulnerable to peer pressure, hence mentioning it here. Getting out and about would be good for me. Machining would be cool, but you can get a MIG welder at home depot for a hell of a lot less than you can get an end mill or a lathe or what have you.
Completely serious?
Have you seen bronze-casting? It's complicated, be very careful, please, and you can't do it without an institutional (or professional foundry) structure at your disposal. Yes, it's fascinating. It's also sort of drudge-work.
I have seen the 20-something girls with low-rider jeans and bared midriffs hanging around fascinated, though. They're aspiring artists. They're not going to pour bronze themselves. And in my notice, they're ignored by the ones who do.
I took a Thai cooking class last year at the local college, with half an eye towards meeting women. (there was a practical element to it, though: as a single guy, taking a Sunday afternoon cooking class that leaves you with enough food for the week to save on making 3 meals is a big bonus).
Anyway...
It is true that there was a 4-1 ratio of women to men.
However...
The type of women who take these classes? - well, they are generally the type of women who have to take extraordinary efforts to meet men.
In other words, they are *not* attractive.
There was one woman in the class who was *mildly* attractive, but she came with her boyfriend.
So, I certainly now know from personal experience that there are a lot of single women taking classes - and with the ulterior motive of meeting men. They just happen to be women I would not date. So while I may in the future take another class, it will *only* be for the purpose of learning something...
I was recounting this (ie. about the dearth of good looking women in the cooking class) to a female friend, who is drop-dead gorgeous - and, as her comment to me shows, knows it. She said: "hot chicks like me don't need to learn how to cook! Guys cook for us!".
Part of the problem here is that you're never going to meet someone you actually like doing things that are unnatural to you. If taking a random class seems kind of weird and desperate to you, it probably also seems weird and desperate to the kind of people you're attracted to. I obviously can't expect to meet anyone at the Co-op if I am not there for the same reasons everyone else is. (I go for cheapness and product variety.) Grad school is a terrible way to meet people if you disagree with the reasons most people go to grad school. And on and on.
169: I've seen iron poured -- it's certainly not something you pick up on a whim, but most of the actual heavy lifting was done by the instructors and a couple of their trusted old artist cronies. And there were lots of attractive artists and art students participating, plus many of the gawkers you describe. If you have access to a metal-pour class it seems like you could do a lot worse than to take it and see what happened.
We seem to have drifted away from rats.
173: You should see them run when you poor bronze on them.
172: I wasn't quite clear. My roommate *is*, or now sometimes is, one of the instructors, the people doing the actual heavy lifting, i.e. actually pouring bronze, along with the week-long prep work prior to it.
If people want to watch other people make the art, go for it. There are lots of pretty people also watching other people make art. It's worth witnessing the process.
And I'm being snotty here, I realize.
It's not unlike music fans hanging around a band. Dunno how to do it themselves, not interested in doing it themselves, not for real, anyway, but they like seeing it happen. They're groupies.
There are a lot of artististic techniques I wouldn't get near without a respirator and hazmat suit. Less sexy.
I met my fiancee through blogging, albeit indirectly. Another guy in Tokyo with a blog read my blog, and we met up for sushi to talk about blogging and such. Nerdy, right? But he brought along his friend from his office, and now the friend and I are getting hitched. Thank you, blogging.
Am I the only one who finds fidgeting extremely attractive?
You and about 40 other women in New York City, all of whom are fictional characters created by Woody Allen.
171: I'm not sure. I would think that attending classes to meet people is an attempt to recreate the college/grad school experience, where you know you will see a group of people for a certain amount of time, come rain or shine, every (this time around) week. And you reasonably suspect you'll like some of them, and some of them will like you. Which is to say that if you are going to classes to meet people, rather than score, I think it might work out pretty well. And if you score, well, bonus.
I think I want to believe in things like "take a class" because I think "dating" is a very odd way to go about getting involved with someone.
Well, maybe they do it differently in parsimonville, but what I've seen involved 2 university classes which had spent the semester making molds, plus a bunch of artist cronies of the instructors. The rank and file got to smash up old radiators and perform divers other tasks during the not-actually-pouring segments of the pour. So everybody was sweaty and exultant and smelled like a smelter at the end of the day. I'm guessing that there were probably parties afterwards. If this isn't a recipe for at least a couple of hook-ups or "dates" then I dunno what is.
181 gets it right. Unless you're in a cooking class that meets five times a week or costs $680, you're not in there with people whose greatest obsession in life is cooking. You're in there with random people who share a vague interest in cooking.
There are a lot of artististic techniques I wouldn't get near without a respirator and hazmat suit.
I met this girl with a t-shirt that said Eva Hesse: Sculpture, and I asked, "who's that," and her answer was basically, "this sculptor who died b/c her techniques were so toxic." Not entirely convinced it was true but it seemed like an unfortunate post-death tagline. I guess it's better than dying in an insane asylum.
Machining is fun, and welding also sounds fun, but I haven't gotten around to a welding class. But for me machining came first as what I'd eventually like to do is customize revolvers.
But yeah, only one chick in the machining class. Cute Polish girl, but married.
182: Peace, minneapolitan. Sure. Everybody was excited, though the sweaty and exultant gets down to everyone hunkering down in the studio within the hour over their poured pieces to file down the seams, at 9 o'clock at night.
Pretty business-like, really. Probably like any day-long group endeavor, or any grad department, maybe a hookup or two eventually.
I think I was just reacting to Frowner's original thing about the "truly irresistibles" being bronze-pourers. Which seemed like such a joke, as you yourself refer to them above as "the artist cronies." They're wearing hazmat suits, their faces are smeared with soot, they're frowning in concentration, and short-tempered with those who get too close to the heat.
I'm tired.
I occasionally entertain thoughts of getting into taiko, but damn it, I have too many hobbies as it is.
contra dancing
What are the steps? "Up, up, down, down..."
That settles it. I'm signing up.
I tried taking taiko in Berkeley. After flailing around at the first and second class, I asked the instructors how to do something. They looked at me and one said "We aren't here to teach, you are here to learn." I was livid and I never went back.
That's Japanese-style teaching for you. Come on, Megan, haven't you ever seen The Karate Kid?
#188 wins the thread and, possibly, the Internet.
189. woot! http://www.metacafe.com/watch/56404/naked_japanese_stomp/
NSFW
Blacksmithing class was totally not a way to pick up chicks.
I've seen metal being poured at a foundry, and I'd definitely say it was very sexy. It seemed to glow from within, but at the distance I was at you couldn't feel the heat so it looked sort of refreshing, as if you could drink it or bathe in it. There were no women working in the foundry, but if there had been I would certainly have hit on one of them.
Regarding rats, shooting rats would help make a man out of PK -- if that were what B. really wanted. Lots of great rattists are uncircumcised and have long hair, so that would be no problem. Nothing gets the old virility and macho surging through your veins like bagging a mess of rat.
And beermaking (homebrewing) is awesome, but most of the people you're going to meet are middle-aged men who pursue their hobby in fear of, or in reaction to, having been kicked out of the kitchen by their wife.
Saw the Karate Kid. His form was mediocre.
I guess I'm not cut out for Japanese-style teaching, because I don't understand what I am paying for if they aren't there to teach.
I think that anything to do with horses is good for picking up really classy but down-to-earth chicks. I believe that they tend to have high standards, though, so forget that. And what man can compete with half a ton of highstrung gristle with big brown eyes?
186: No, no, I wasn't being pissy. I wasn't actually participating, so you might be right about the ensuing tedium, although it seemed like people were sorta packing up their stuff (many were out-of-towners) and going home as soon as the pieces were cool enough. I guess it probably depends on the specific context.
The best part was when this grad student helper had been sent to mix in more coke and busted-up-radiator parts and he shoved his heavily-gloved hand a little way into the crucible (or whatever you call it) to mix things up better and a couple of the older instructor guys were shouting at him about it -- but I asked him later and he said he had done it the year before in just the same manner and nobody had had a problem with it.
Beats submitting abstracts any day I would guess.
"Yeah, but if they're divorced, there must be something wrong with them.""
And I always thought, "wow, she's never been married. I wonder what is wrong with her?!?!"
As far as meeting people, triathalon clubs are a great way to meet people who will be single soon.
I've taken latin dancing twice. I didnt see any single people. Old, old people. Great class though. I highly recommend it.
Swimming is a good coed sport, as are running clubs.
I think the key is to just break out of your normal circle of friends. Try new things. Don't be afraid to go out with some losers.
My Chinese teacher was that way. I asked him about three questions in the course of about ten hours of one-on-one teaching, and that was three too many. He also went from teaching stuff I already knew to teaching me stuff I didn't want to learn.
He was the real end of my academic career. He was well-connected, and my way of quitting offended him greatly, though I did try to be tactful (not really a skill of mine).
I don't understand what I am paying for if they aren't there to teach.
The privilege of basking in their aura. Duh.
triathalon clubs are a great way to meet people who will be single soon
Awesome.
This should work for swing dancing, too.
Music in 4, steps in 6, brain in 8 gray puddles on the floor.
As far as meeting people, triathalon clubs are a great way to meet people who will be single soon.
The only triathlon person I know who isn't destroying his/her relationship is in a relationship with her trainer. And I thought whips and chains were scary.
Maybe triathlon meetups would be a place to schedule quickies. Those people have no time for relationships (good!) but they might be able to pencil in 15-20 minutes here and there. They probably don't get as bony as marathon runners, either.
207:
Agreed. Either they are ignoring their family or banging other triathetes.
I think you want the inclusive or, there.
"We aren't here to teach, you are here to learn."
Oh, my bad, because I was here to learn from a teacher.
I keep wanting to learn how to play drums, rock/math-rock style, but I never do anything about it. (I wanted to do drums instead of piano lessons when I was a lass, but unsurprisingly my parents did not agree.)
Girls have to be the bassists in indie rock bands, silly.
Ahem. It's "Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man" for a reason.
Back when I was in college, the people who took the welding class and the people who poured various metals had lots of admirers. It was neat-looking, it was tough (all that heavy lifting), it took specialized skills and hardly anyone could do it. What's not to be interested by? I can't say whether the metal pourers cared for the people who pursued them, but I had rather assumed that an admiring and diverse audience of fellow college students would yield at least a couple of hot prospects. I'm just not sure what's so controversial about saying that doing something cool and unusual may work to get you dates. Perhaps in New York everyone is cool and unusual, so this method doesn't work?
So where do all the men spend their free time?
Mm. My own band of late-30ish-40ish single artsy-fartsy nancy boys? We make music noise, book shows, attend shows, go to galleries, organize gallery shows, hunt for junk, make things to make noise with, eat out, drink way too much, talk shit about whoever isn't there, exercise, shop. By myself, I spend a lot of time reading and probably too much time watching bad TV (for which I share with Althouse a fondness). Of course, I'd take a welding course in a heartbeat.
Anyway, parsimon gets it right in #91.
Agnostics who are almost atheists should consider the Unitarians.
I dated a woman who was Chair of her Pagan-Christian Fellowship Committee at her UU Church. At the time, I thought that was adorable and hilarious.
RFTS: drums, rock/math-rock style -- means like with drumsticks?
No, no! drums with the hands! skins, bongoes and stuff!
There's a local day-long drumming street festival here every August, half the years I miss when it is lately, but the years I catch it and am in it, I'm entranced. The whole block vibrates. 3 or 4 large drumming circles down the length of the street.
Magic. And I just don't give a flying fuck then whether anybody is pretty or classy (did you say that, Emerson?) or has hairy toes. It's like going blind and just feeling. The rhythm, dontchaknow.
My experience with language classes suggests that more men than women take German and more women than men take Russian. I've been meaning to brush up on my Russian...
parsimon:
I got my son a set of congos. Any suggestions for what kind of lessons for him?
I've been meaning to brush up on my Russian...
Frott!
I knew I should have chosen a different set of words.
I knew I should
Oughtt!
I've heard community theater - or whatever amateur non-student acting is called - can be a good way to meet someone.
Theater [can be a good way to meet someone].
220: No idea. This is why I need to have lessons myself. Gotta look around in the alternative places for ads for sessions open to beginners.
219 -- Curiously, upon reflection, it occurs to me that a significant percent of my dating history is made up of men who took German. This is not unambiguously a good thing.
213: Hey, the Frog Eyes drummer is completely hot when she's on the drums. I say hurrah to female rhythm sections, and will only encourage my kid to learn drums or bass.
Hey parsimon, where are you commenting from? I'd love to see a festival like the one you mention in 218. The massive drum show that the Boredoms are setting up in DC or NYC this summer also sounds amazing.
230 - Sarah from Unwound was like the hottest thing evar. A hell of a drummer, too.
No, no! drums with the hands! skins, bongoes and stuff!
Enjoy! Not for me, though, thanks.
230:
I'm in Baltimore.
And yeah, when in DC? I'll check some discussion lists I'm on, maybe there's a mention.
The hottest drummer I've ever seen was playing for Hidden Cameras, but he changes bands for like every gig, so this means nothing. By God, though, that drummer-woman was unbelievably attractive.
I will give drum lessons to all of Unfogged. Not a big deal. Just send me a photo of your skins, and we'll get started.
I only have one skin, Stanley, and it doesn't all go in one photograph, as certain parts remain in shadow.
From the article:
Dustin Goodwin, 38, a member of the Manhattan Sailing Club (he does not take classes because he already knows how to sail) said that he has not found it difficult to meet women.
So why did the reporter talk to him?
237: No worries. I'm willing to adapt the lessons to all skill levels.
So why did the reporter talk to him?
By STEPHANIE ROSENBLOOM
Okay, Stanley, but they're note so much mine as the world's.
241: Too delicate; you're going to need something that can actually take a hit.
Regarding rats, shooting rats would help make a man out of PK -- if that were what B. really wanted.
No, I'm hoping that he'll have a major identity crisis when he hits young adulthood and go through years of angst and trauma before finally scheduling his sex change operation.
That doesn't sound very circumspect.
Ever since I saw a flyer for the Crucible at a concert in the Mission I've wanted to take a class there.
231, 234: Argh, sorry guys. That little "or" in my last comment was because I couldn't remember precisely where the event was. Turns out it's only in NYC, but it looks like it'll somehow be even more amazing than the typical Boredoms live show.
Also, parsimon, do you know the Wham City crew in Baltimore? I've heard good things about some of those bands and I figure Baltimore can't be that huge of a scene.
I suspect if I were single, my 'kickboxing' class (or as a friend refers to it, 'le biff-baff') would be as good a way to meet women as any. The class is about 80% women.
re: 134
Whenever I'm partnered with guys, which is often because none of the girls are tall enough, I always try to be tough and tell them to kick and hit harder because I know they're pulling back. And then they do, and then I cry.
There is almost* always a bit of that, in my experience.
'You're holding back, aren't you?'
'Er, yeah'
'You don't have to, you know'
'OK' [still holding back, but holding back a bit less]
'Owwwwwww'
* with a couple of exceptions ...
243: Chapter n+1 of PK's forthcoming book just became a little more actual.
I went to diving classes (as in off a diving board, not scuba) for a year a couple of years ago. There were two classes going on at once, my beginners/improvers class, and a more advanced one, and a maximum of three women (including me) and about a dozen men with reasonable-to-good bodies in the two classes. I enjoyed that, and if I hadn't been married, I would have totally hit on one of them.
"a dozen men with reasonable-to-good bodies"
The fact that I probably have the least good (male) body in my class might count against me, come to think of it.
82
So where do all the men spend their free time?
Well, speaking as a 24-year-old, I play World of Warcraft, Magic: the Gathering, and go to the local chapter of Drinking Liberally. And the hours at my job are not that long, but vary a lot from week to week, so my free time tends to be spread out and unpredictable.
181: So what you're saying is, if someone had a pretty anemic love life in college, they can expect roughly the same from taking classes?
Ah but ttaM, you've got a lovely personality!
Mine was probably the worst in my class, but there was a fatter woman as well as a slimmer woman in the other class. Although I have a distorted sense of my own attractiveness and find it hard to truly believe that seeing me in a swimsuit, with straggly wet hair and bouncing about on the end of a board with unshaven pits would count against me.
246:
Also, parsimon, do you know the Wham City crew in Baltimore?
Nope, but, uh, I don't get out much. Honestly, everything starts at 11 pm around here. My days for that are so over.
(Maybe I've heard of some of those bands but don't know them under the "Wham City" moniker.)
Ah but ttaM, you've got a lovely personality!
Mine was probably the worst in my class
Hee.
re: 252
Although I have a distorted sense of my own attractiveness
Me too, actually. I don't think I'd actually be considered the least attractive guy there, but I definitely look sort of hulk-like next to some of the more sylph-like specimens.
straggly wet hair and bouncing about on the end of a board with unshaven pits
Distorted? Never.
bouncing about on the end of a board with unshaven pits
