Re: Bush wedding open thread

1

Most disgusting post ever.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:01 PM
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Yet...hottest. Admit that you've wondered about this.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:02 PM
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I'm relieved to learn that others have considered this. And the answer is yes, absolutely ardor-extinguishing.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:04 PM
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Jesus has already suggested that the Afghans should take revenge for all the wedding parties we have bombed.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:05 PM
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Jesus, I think you're ignoring the empirical evidence: people often *think* that X could never be hot, but then once in a state of arousal they find X strangely appealing. That's what scares me.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:09 PM
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2: I have not, and indeed, this is the kind of thing that simultaneously makes me thank god that I'm a straight woman and think that straight men are the vilest creatures on the planet.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:10 PM
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B, I'm totally not getting your revulsion, but send me some n00dz and I'll find the revulsion really sexy.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:12 PM
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Jesus, I think you're ignoring the empirical evidence: people often *think* that X could never be hot, but then once in a state of arousal they find X strangely appealing.

Nehamas has written about this, or at least about analogous phenomena.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:12 PM
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once in a state of arousal they find X strangely appealing


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:13 PM
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10

all British men have already explored this issue with respect to the starlet Kate Beckinsale, who from certain angles looks frighteningly like her father Richard, "the boy Godber" from popular prison sitcom "Porridge" (since it was a British prison sitcom rather than an American one, there were surprisingl few rape jokes).


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:14 PM
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11

I am a straight man and the idea of intimacy with Clan Bush makes my gorge rise.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:16 PM
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Labs, I'll send you as many n00dz as you like if you'll just start posting regularly again.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:17 PM
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13

Second, if one were hitting that

It's this, Labs.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:18 PM
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What I find odd, albeit completely unsurprising, is the wedding memorabilia. It's almost as though America has its own Royal Family!


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:18 PM
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11: I've never heard it called a "gorge" before


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:18 PM
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Parsimon understands.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:21 PM
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I am somewhat ashamed that she is marrying a Richmond boy.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:25 PM
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10: I suppose it is a little offputting that Americans can't separate the thought of prison from the thought of rape.


Posted by: Zippy the Comment Frog | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:26 PM
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5: My ardor is second to no man's, and I remain convinced that the resemblance to daddy would be an arousal-killer. I can't imagine, say, pounding on the spot (or any face-to-face arrangement) without expecting her to bark some inane bullshit about preëmptive war or the upward distribution of wealth. Maybe that's just me.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:27 PM
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Back when men were men it was traditional to marry the daughters and widows of as many of your enemies as you could kill. But PC makes that impossible today, with all those notions about "consent" and "murer" and so on.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:27 PM
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I find the idea that parsimon is correcting FL on elements of slang strangely arousing.

I find it impossible to separate thoughts of prison from thoughts of Hogan's Heroes. Because I am Enlightened.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:28 PM
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Last I heard Jesus' ardor only ranked #217, which isn't that bad but nowhere near as good as he claims it is.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:28 PM
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I am rereading the Mabinogion at present and am rather startled at how much of the great Welsh myths are basically about the kind of thing Emerson notes in #20 and how I completely missed all of these things when first reading them as a child.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:29 PM
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19: it's the smirk that would kill me, and I don't mean in the renaissance orgasm/death sense. Other bad joke fodder: last throes, bring 'em on, etc.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:31 PM
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I find the idea that parsimon is correcting FL on elements of slang strangely arousing.

She isn't.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:31 PM
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24: But you could yell MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! at the moment of climax. Surely that would make up for a lot.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:32 PM
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27

Oh my dears -- you never saw the story of the young fellow who sought to meet Miss Jenna in Prague and his, ahem, Osama bin Laden mask, did you?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:32 PM
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23: One of the practice reading sections in my Greek textbook was about how Darius learned that Alexander hadn't raped his wife and was so impressed he decided Alexander deserved to rule the world.


Posted by: Zippy the Comment Frog | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:33 PM
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The other twin looks much less like him, but the resemblance might emerge at unexpected moments.

I don't really have a problem with the twins, though, provided that they never, ever, ever, ever run for office.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:35 PM
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it's the smirk that would kill me

Exactly. She's inherited not only his basic features, but also his most self-satisfied, contemptuous expression. Clearly, her fiancée is a sick fuck.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:35 PM
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But you could yell MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! at the moment of climax.

What a great idea.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:36 PM
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20: What part of "Crush your enemies; see them driven before you; hear the lamentation of the women" did you miss the first time?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:38 PM
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33

Fiancé, I meant, of course.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:38 PM
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She's inherited not only his basic features, but also his most self-satisfied, contemptuous expression. Clearly, her fiancée is a sick fuck Republican.

The only ones W has left are the sick fucks, I hope.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:39 PM
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preëmptive

Go Jesus! Team Diæresis keeps on growing!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:40 PM
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The link in 27 makes me want to vote Republican.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:41 PM
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The hate-on that everyone seems to have for George Bush's daughters seems rather like the Paris Hilton hate-on that everyone seems to have, and like that, it gives me rather the contrarian inclination.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:43 PM
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I keep wondering-- if I had sex with d2, would he kind of morph into Hitchens?


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:45 PM
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#38: half of me wants to say "let's try it and find out", the other half wants to beat the living crap out of you. I suppose this must be what most straight women fell like most of the time.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:47 PM
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38: Yes.

39: Yes.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:49 PM
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41

39: dsquared reveals himself to be ... a feminist?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:51 PM
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I have never been able to appreciate Angelina Jolie to the degree that others seem to because to my eyes she looks just like Jon Voight, with puffier lips.


Posted by: xyzzy | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:51 PM
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43

one has to be a feminist these days, it's the only way to pull the birds.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:52 PM
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44

See also: Liv Tyler.


Posted by: Brodysattva | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:52 PM
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45

Ahem. To be fair. Speaking as a straight woman for the most part, I try not to have sex with people I'd like to beat the leaving crap out of.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:53 PM
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46

45: well, speaking as a married man[1], thank god for the other type of bird then.

[1] apparently so!


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:54 PM
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47

There is a world of difference between each of the following:

1. Speaking for the most part as a straight woman [I'm also speaking to a lesser extent qua bookseller]
2. Speaking as a for the most part straight woman [I distinguish myself from lesbians and the completely straight]
3. Speaking as a straight woman for the most part [I'm also a bit of a man]


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 6:56 PM
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48

so if you dont want to beat the crap out of w-lfs-n and me, then we have a chance?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:00 PM
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49

Angelina Jolie has the oddest coloration. All her colors are very flat. She must do it on purpose, to contrast herself with all the made-up stars. Sort of elite privilege: "Even without makeup [or with carefully-chosen boring makeup] I'm hotter than you."


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:00 PM
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32: I can actually quote that in the original Mongol.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:02 PM
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Some of us have never "explored this issue" at all because our lust raises a mental barrier that prevents us from contemplating a woman's resemblance to any man, and especially her father.

I hereby proclaim myself the straightest commenter in the thread.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:02 PM
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I try not to have sex with people I'd like to beat the leaving crap out of.

But you manage to (1) have sex; (2) with men?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:04 PM
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53

"beat the leaving crap out of" is a winning phrase.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:06 PM
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54

It seems inevitable that one of the twins will run for office. The one with the children's book and the humanitarian work. And everyone who fell for "compassionate conservative" will fall for that one too. What, you think Empire don't love its daughters? Meadow Soprano wants to talk to you.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:07 PM
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55

So far, "The Naked Prey" is a surprisingly good movie.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:10 PM
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56

47: That's an odd assortment of options. I don't see how (1) is a possible reading, and (3) is not correct.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:10 PM
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50 that's interesting, JE, would you quote it please phonetically, coz i think you are going to write it in uigurjin, no?
just to see whether i'd understand
i wanted to ignore this thread as the mean thread
but there you mentioned your quote


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:13 PM
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Further to 56: Oh, I see. Yes, I know, Ben, I know. As a for the most part straight woman. I maintain that my original formulation was clear enough.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:14 PM
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59

not the whole thread, the post i meant perhaps


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:17 PM
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60

When I saw Jenna's smiley photograph earlier today it really did flip back and forth like a Necker cube: pretty, W, pretty, W, pretty, aaagh!


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:18 PM
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57: I have to dig it out of my books, but I promise to do it.

What I have is de Rachewiltz's romanized reconstruction from the oldest Secret History text, which is written down in Chinese characters with diacritical marks where Chinese couldn't transcribe the Mongolian properly.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:19 PM
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As a for the most part straight for the most part man, for the most part I find Jenna attractive enough. Like most for the most part straight men, I am for the most part somewhat misogynist, so being attracted to someone I'd for the most part dislike is for the most part a familiar experience for me.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:22 PM
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But you manage to (1) have sex; (2) with men?

This fascinates me at the moment. Sorry. I keep coming back to it, though I realize it's a joke. But yes! Turns out it's not that hard to have sex with men you don't want to beat the living crap out of.

I try to explain this to my mother from time to time. She's of the "men suck" school of thought. I tire of it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:32 PM
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64

ok, so it's in kanji, sure, take your time, no hurry :)


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:34 PM
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65

Turns out it's not that hard to have sex with men you don't want to beat the living crap out of.

I did this! Last night! Not tempted at all to commit violence!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:36 PM
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If B didn't permit herself to have sex with people she occasionally wanted to beat the crap out of, she'd have to be celibate.

Second, if one were hitting that, would this still happen?

what a horrible sentence. Things were much better when the rules of witty conversation didn't require PhDs to make awkward stabs at slang.

GW Bush was quite a handsome man in his younger days, so it's not surprising his daughter is attractive. His father was even better looking in his youth. Our ability to judge these things has been pretty much wiped out by negative Pavlovian conditioning. I can't even bear to watch Bush speak for longer than about 30 seconds. Sex with Jenna would have to be from behind.

His daughters seem like nice people who have their heads on reasonably straight, considering. Was Jenna the one who said she might not be voting for McCain? It showed good taste for her not to go for the ridiculous White House wedding, either.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:38 PM
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And if you do lose your 'gorge', the etiquette's a complete minefield -- 'Are you saying I look like a man?' => 'Are you saying my dad's an unattractive man?' => 'Are you saying you hate freedom?'

In the long run I wager it's better just to 'ride on through', try and take what you can get from the W-fucking experience, and deal with the private psychological trauma rather than the collective sexual embarrassment. But that's a choice we all have to make for ourselves.


Posted by: RobDP | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:39 PM
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68

I am disappointed in the twins for not having a lesbian affair & going to protests with Dana Olmert, mind you.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:40 PM
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65: All right! Go AWB!


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:41 PM
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There's be a certain gratification in knowing that one was the very last person in the world Dubya would want to have getting it on with his daughter. There are all kids of hate fuck options. Also, we're behaving like powerless, resentful swine.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. We take comfort where we can get it.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:42 PM
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what a horrible sentence. Things were much better when the rules of witty conversation didn't require PhDs to make awkward stabs at slang.

On the contrary. "If one were hitting that" is brill.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:43 PM
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PGD is a prissy motherfucker.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:45 PM
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awkward stabs at slang

brill.

Choke.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:45 PM
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74

AWB can't handle the layeredness of the dialogue at unfogged.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:47 PM
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63: It was jokeish, but actually I think that if you're having sex with men you don't occasionally want to beat the crap out of, you're either not very attuned (which I rather doubt) or else you've got some kind of pass onto a completely separate universe.

And this isn't because "men suck." It's because people, even me, are human beings.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:47 PM
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76

Unfogged as a whole is monophonic, but each individual comment is polyphonic.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:48 PM
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Further to 76: this means that unfogged, and not Wilhelm Meister or Shakespeare, is romantic poetry.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:49 PM
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There are all kids of hate fuck options.

I think I'm going to start referring to myself as a "Child of a Hate Fuck."


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:52 PM
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77: Bullshit.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:53 PM
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I don't know how to refute an incredulous stare, parsley.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:53 PM
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I think I'm going to start referring to myself as a "Child of a Hate Fuck."

In general, or just at open mic nights?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:54 PM
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PGD is a prissy motherfucker.

Not by most definitions, but I'll admit I've never understood the appeal of the "hate fuck". All kinds of not-love fucking, sure, rough sex, of course, but hate is a turn off.

This probably reflects some kind of lack of experience with the darker corners of life.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:56 PM
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It's because people, even me, are human beings.

Yeah. But I don't want to beat the living crap out of them when they show that. If it gets to the point at which I do, I won't be sleeping with them any more.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:56 PM
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84

I'll admit I've never understood the appeal of the "hate fuck".

You poor soul.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:58 PM
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85

If When it gets to the point at which I do, I won't be sleeping with them any more.

There, fixed that for you.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:59 PM
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In general, or just at open mic nights?

Working in jokes about divorce is taught in Advanced Clowning, Ben; you know I'm young yet.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 7:59 PM
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Clowning?

"Child of a Hate Fuck" would be a great stage name for an aggressive singer-songwriter, or for his first album.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:01 PM
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I think that we're approaching an understanding of PGD's problems.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:02 PM
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89

It just occurred to me that Trent Reznor is basically a 70s-style singer-songwriter.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:05 PM
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85: Don't be silly. Sometimes you just realize the guy's too dumb, and you sort of can't stand it. Or he's too conservative, or too depressed, or too superficial, or whatever. This has nothing to do with hate. I very rarely want to beat the crap out of someone, and it takes a special someone.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:07 PM
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Clowning?

I feel a little sheepish, pwning you with my memory for Unfogged only because it involved a joke at my expense.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:10 PM
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B obviously has a lot more free-floating aggression than you do, Parsimon. She's just explaining how she integrates it into loving relationships.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:11 PM
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93

Also, this discussion would be incomplete without noting how surprisingly often people want you to beat the living crap out of them during sex.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:15 PM
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I am disappointed in the twins for not having a lesbian affair

Are you saying you're better than my daughter?! I should shoot you in the face!


Posted by: Dick Cheney | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:23 PM
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So, open thread, eh?

I'm going to San Jose to give a job-talk on Monday. I'm feeling liberated about it because I don't want the job very much, and there's still a very good chance the thing I went to D.C. in March will pan out--which I want very much.

Still, I don't want to come off as stupid or dull. Advice?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:28 PM
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96

Say intelligent and interesting things.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:29 PM
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97

I hadn't thought of that.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:32 PM
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98

Having not yet read the thread, I would like to say that I know one of the groomsmen at this wedding, and boy is that weirding me out.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:32 PM
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Your reputation was already shot, Sifu. Nothing to worry about.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:34 PM
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100

Kobe finds Jenna Bush attractive.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:39 PM
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90: Well, e.g., this post. Labs's smackworthiness (as you point out in 13) doesn't mean he isn't still a lovely man with an enormous cock.

I know one of the groomsmen at this wedding

It becomes clearer and clearer that you're some kind of "society" person, Tweety.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:42 PM
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Sifu, you have two choices: you can accept your heritage, or your upbringing or background or whatever it is, and gently distance yourself; or you can violently inextricably and irrevocably distance yourself from them, disappear, in other words.

Possibly the latter is overkill, but only you can say.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:43 PM
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101: I'm so, so not. His dad lived on a commune with my mom in the sixties.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:44 PM
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104

I think that we should prescribe a string of high society hate fucks with people he wants to beat the shit out of as the Lacano-Fanonian path to liberation.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:46 PM
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105

My mom was working at Sears in the 60s, you child of self-indulgent privilege.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:46 PM
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106

a commune

Charming the self-deprecation of the yacht clubs these days.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:46 PM
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107

This is a really scary and awesome video. Awesome because of how the guy stuck to his rights, and scary because of what the government is trying to do.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:47 PM
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105: She was probably the rude bitch who tried to short-change me. I remember her well.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:49 PM
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Labs is an extremely good-looking guy. Tall too. I think we've found the hidden bridge that spans the chasm between smackworthiness and fuckability.

Emerson would be a good dark side therapist, counseling gentle liberals on how to connect with the the beast within.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:51 PM
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110

My grandmother worked for Sears in the 30s. Or maybe I'm thinking of Montgomery Burns Wards. She changed jobs a few times that decade.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:52 PM
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105: well mine was working as a Kelly Girl, so nyah. It was not, okay, to be honest, one of your rural ultra-hippie communes. Still, I feel a little bad for the guy's dad: what a "how did I raise you that this happened?" moment.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:53 PM
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108: You were shopping in the fabric department?

110: My dad worked at M. Wards.

111: Ooh! I was a Kelly Girl for a while after college! They promoted me to work in their office, even.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:55 PM
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Emerson is right on tonight. 70.1.c and 72 are exactly right, and 104 has me scratching my head. (In a good way.)


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:55 PM
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114

My mom worked for General Electric. She modeled a washing machine in Life magazine once.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:57 PM
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101.1: This is difficult. Okay. Look, if it gets to the point at which I'm curling my lip at a guy (showing my fangs, as it were) for more than 10%, maybe 20%, I'm not sure, of the things he says, I don't think I'm going to sleep with him unless I'm drunk (in one way or another, whether with dancing or drink or a bonfire at midnight). Okay? I need to be able to smile with someone. If he's an asshole, I can't do that.

If it matters, Labs isn't proven an asshole with this post; it's mostly an unfogged approved way of talking about women, which is considered to be funny in certain contexts. I don't know Labs.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:57 PM
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107: You do realize that if the guy had had an accent, or been dark-skinned, or young, he'd have been out of that car and flat on his belly, right?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:59 PM
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Yes, in those days I sewed my own clothes.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 8:59 PM
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My grandmother started out doing copyrighting for catalogs and other advertising. Eventually she moved up to coordinating things. Apparently Lauren Bacall was one of the models for some of the products at one of the places she worked so she ended up calling her in every now and then.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:00 PM
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115: Yes, of course, and I agree. In the initial comment I was just pointing out that ime, men tend to act like entitled twerps sometimes (which I would too, if I were a guy--and I do it anyway, because I'm an umc suburban-type mommie). So if one refused to sleep with people who act like entitled twerps sometimes, one would be celibate.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:01 PM
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119: even masturbation would be off limits!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:04 PM
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Exactly! And we can't have that.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:06 PM
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Don't knock masturbation; it's sex with someone you hate.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:06 PM
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118: Sigh. Did grandma say if LB was as awesome in person as she is on the screen?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:08 PM
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I think it's possible to meet men who don't act like entitled twerps, but I'll grant you that they are rare enough as to be basically non-existent.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:09 PM
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Don't knock masturbation; it's sex with someone you hate.

But I fantasize about you, Ben.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:09 PM
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is there a list of the groomsmen somewhere>


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:11 PM
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124: In all soul-baring honesty, I suspect I would usually not find such men sexually attractive.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:12 PM
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Except for Ben, of course.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:13 PM
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123: Unfortunately that's not one of her stories that I remember well, especially since I don't think I really knew who Bacall was when I heard it, so I didn't ask a lot of questions.

(Also, not all of her stories have turned out to be accurate, but there's good reason to believe this one. At least, she really did have a job where working with advertising models was one of her duties, but sometimes she mixed up names, so it could have been someone else.)


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:14 PM
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127: it's well known that women secretly love assholes. Feminist propaganda conceals this. But the pickup community has bravely brought it to light.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:15 PM
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122: thanks for making that explicit, Ben.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:15 PM
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So if one refused to sleep with people who act like entitled twerps sometimes, one would be celibate.

Wrong.

Acting like a twerp sometimes is normal. An entitled twerp is different. I don't know why you accept that as normal, but there it is.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:15 PM
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Is there some reason all the wordpress.com blogs are dead?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:16 PM
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127: I didn't think I would, either, but I'm learning!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:17 PM
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122: thanks for making that explicit, Ben.

I've been reading/talking about a bit o' Brandom recently.

I think the Woody Allen factor should extenuate?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:17 PM
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The Woody Allen factor always extenuates, as the man in question has learned to his great benefit.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:19 PM
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I think the Woody Allen factor should extenuate?

That little saying (and variants thereof) comes up so often around here, I forget it's him.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:19 PM
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I knew that PGD would jump on 127, and I am determined to ignore his doing so.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:20 PM
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138: so much for that plan.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:21 PM
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I don't know why you accept that as normal

I am a forgiving realist.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:22 PM
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139: Shut up, you.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:22 PM
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it's well known a cliché that women secretly love assholes, and it arises from the fact that when all your sexual experiences are in the context of men being unbelievably mean, you figure you might as well learn to get off on the feeling of resentment.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:23 PM
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might as well learn to get off on the feeling of resentment

Can you/one learn to get off on things?


Posted by: Dr. Zeuss | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:28 PM
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Yes.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:30 PM
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I am a forgiving realist.

Please cut that shit out. I hope it's hyperbole. Or some sort of weird drama queen thing.*

Didn't we already say that people always fall down and are twerps and are only human sometimes, and obviously we forgive. But this assumption of deep-seated, perpetual, repeated twerpitude, unassailable and neverending, because they just can't help it? or what? which we must just accept and live with, sighing all the while, is just absurd.

*Men can be drama queens too.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:33 PM
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What's wrong with being forgiving and realistic?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:36 PM
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133: Perhaps it's because Wordpress sucks.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:36 PM
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Parsimon, you're completely misreading me.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:37 PM
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ha ha. heh. I didn't realize the next paragraph explained the first line. I'm very tired.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:37 PM
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A lot.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:37 PM
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147: Perhaps. But it started off so well. (sniff)


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:37 PM
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That was very weird.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:39 PM
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WP now says, "Sorry for the lack of notice, but we are performing some maintenance. Your dashboard is going to be unavailable for 52 mins."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:40 PM
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At least I can read some of the blogs.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:41 PM
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153: I'm glad your second date went well.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:43 PM
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155: Me too. He's a pretty extraordinary guy.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:46 PM
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148: Okay. Sorry.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:48 PM
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142 does not accord with my experience of women, but I doubt my experience is representative. (Maybe no ones is).

I don't really think women love assholes qua assholes, although I'm enjoying hearing B admit that she secretly wants that hot misogynist lovin'. (I suspect it's more complex even with her, since her husband seems like a mellow, supportive, open type of guy. Maybe he was an asshole when they met, though).

I'm more disposed to think women like men who are lively, confident, outgoing, and at least somewhat assertive. Those qualities are more universal among assholes than other guys, but they don't mean you're an asshole. Also, there's reverse causation -- you're more likely to become an asshole if you're very successful with women and can afford to be cocky. The same goes for beautiful women being high-maintenance, rich people being jerks with the help, etc.

But it's Unfogged, and just to stir the pot I'll say this. Many, many women that I've discussed relationships with have said something about one priority being whether the guy is a "pushover", whether he's strong enough to handle her, etc. You almost never hear men conceptualizing relationships in this weirdly combative way. It's like there's a "taming of the shrew" streak or something. Most women I've been close to are very strong, accomplished, well educated, pretty asservtive, that's sort of my type. Some of them would be well advised IMO to seek out a gentle and accomodating type of guy, maybe a follower type. But it does seem to be rarer than it should be for women to actively seek or fantasize about that sort of person, much rarer than it is for men.

That's still not saying that these women actually wanted assholes, though. In fact, they definitely didn't. But that set of priorities might get them more assholes than another would.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:52 PM
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PGD got a taste of trolling and really liked it.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:55 PM
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Apparently so.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:55 PM
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Might as well get the Taken In Hand link in the mix.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:58 PM
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It's like human flesh: once you try it, you can't ever go back. Not that I'm, uh, speaking from experience.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:58 PM
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162 to 160.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:00 PM
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Actually, wasn't this the topic that PGD originally started commenting on unfogged about?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:00 PM
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I think women grow to be very suspicious of nice men because it's so hard to know whether they're being earnest or not. IME, nice men can often be guys who just want a relationship with someone, anyone, and they try to create rapport where there isn't one. At least with a guy who's mean, you can assume they like you more than they show it, or that at least they're being earnest in their meanness.

And it's sort of sad to feel like it's easier to be with someone who's openly disrespectful than it is to be with someone who's flattering and pandering.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:02 PM
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The "nice guy vs. asshole" distinction is a completely false dichotomy, you know.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:05 PM
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Remember, "nice guy" and "asshole" aren't platonic ideals.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:05 PM
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162 to 164.

||

I hate dealing with plagiarism.

|>


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:05 PM
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See? That's why I fantasize about Ben.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:06 PM
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No, rather the opposite in fact. But one step across the tripwire of Unfogged orthodoxies apparently negates fifty qualifiers. So I'll qualify the point into near non-existence and add that like so many sex differences it narrows with age, as people come to know themselves better and become more pragmatic about their needs, and it might be due to sex socialization. I tend to hang with a lot of women who don't accept the stereotypical socialization in most areas, but this would be a deep one.

When you get right down to it, all I'm basically saying is that at least some women should be looking for good accomodating househusband types to be married to, and I see this less than I expect based on pragmatism alone. It's all complicated, no doubt.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:10 PM
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165: Well, except that brash, outgoing confidence and phony mannered cockiness also look an awful lot alike. I'm not sure women are any better at telling those apart than they are at discriminating "nice guys" from decent, self-assured introverts.


Posted by: xyzzy | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:10 PM
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Many, many women that I've discussed relationships with have said something about one priority being whether the guy is a "pushover", whether he's strong enough to handle her, etc. You almost never hear men conceptualizing relationships in this weirdly combative way

I'll take this straight, okay.

I don't necessarily see "strong enough to handle her" as being a weirdly combative way to view things. Rather (to continue the troll), many men would like their women to be sweet, charming, strong when it's called for but otherwise reticent. For a woman who declines to recline, as it were, who continues to speak (out) and may therefore be viewed as aggressive, the desire for a man who can 'handle' that is pretty important.

Oh, but I see that PGD used the term "pushover" -- which I don't get at all. One generally rules those people out immediately, right? So it's not really a problem.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:12 PM
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Getting back to the Bush wedding? Do Jenna or her husband have any interest in running for elective office? Are the Bush years going to come back in another form?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:17 PM
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Remember, "nice guy" and "asshole" aren't platonic ideals.

Indeed, in some of us they are yin and yang.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:18 PM
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One thing I'm learning right now is how nice it is to spend time with someone who has opinions about things, has thought about them, and isn't shy about stating them. I'm like this, and I find that in most relationships, I'm the one who's already got ideas about stuff, and that the men have not really thought about it much. What I've been able to do in my interactions with the guy I'm seeing now is to hear from him what his ideas are without them being tainted by my own strong opinion first. So when he says something like, "I don't think I want to have kids because I didn't really have a happy childhood," and that's pretty much exactly how I've stated it myself in the past, he seems to actually mean it. I can't help but be forthcoming on my own, of course, but there's an actual exchange of thought-out ideas happening, rather than me saying some strongly-worded thing and the guy going, "Yeah, me too" or "Huh, I never thought about it but that's convincing."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:25 PM
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165: I think women grow to be very suspicious of nice men because it's so hard to know ...

some women. Some. Mean people are possibly just as mean equally to everyone.

Stop me before I become too enamo(u)red of these generalizations.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:27 PM
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168: Why? I hate grading. It's tedious. And I'm usually confronted with how little of an impact I've had on my students. But plagiarism, in the three instances in which I've confronted it, hasn't really troubled me very much at all.

173: I don't know about Jenna, but if her husband doesn't run for office within the next decade, I'll eat my hat.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:27 PM
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Yeah, Parsimon's point in 172 is a good one. "Strength" in itself can certainly mean something like "a partner who stays calm and doesn't get all pissy when I assert myself, even if I happen to overstep a little doing it". The ability to stay relaxed and not be overly reactive. I definitely find that a very attractive quality. I think of this as a form of gentleness, but it takes a strong person to be truly gentle.

The language used feels more combative to me -- not just strong, but "strong enough to handle me", etc. -- but it's possible that's my reading as a male and I interpret the words differently than meant.

Interesting what you said about men stereotypically looking for a woman who is "sweet, charming, strong when it's called for but otherwise reticent." Those aren't such bad qualities to have, for either sex, although American culture is very negative about reticence as a personality trait. Perhaps one interpretation of what I'm saying is that women could stand to put a little of the male sexist ideal into their romantic fantasies when they're young, and the reverse is the case as well.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:30 PM
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how little impact

Something about Unfogged absolutely kills my ability to write and reason. Maybe it's that I usually comment here after my kids have gone to sleep. Which means that I'm tired and should be asleep myself.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:30 PM
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Maybe it's the ridiculous dichotomies.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:36 PM
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173: Is she taking the husband's name? Total rebranding opportunity.


Posted by: xyzzy | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:39 PM
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There are four types of people in this world: those who like ridiculous dichotomies, those who don't like ridiculous dichotomies, those who think dividing the world into those two types are making a ridiculous dichotomy, those who think it's an accurate way of describing people, and those who can't count.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:42 PM
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177: It's the five pleading emails (in less than three hours) from the student and his/her parental unit detailing mitigating circumstances and pleading for lenience while at the same time not admitting any wrongdoing.

Thankfully, FERPA makes me unable to respond to Parental Unit.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:44 PM
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I'm definitely the type who likes ridiculous dichotomies. You're correct to distinguish that from the type who thinks they are necessarily accurate ways of describing people.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:46 PM
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pleading pleading pleading


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:49 PM
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I like trichotomies, but only with two women, 'cause I'm a feminist.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:50 PM
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183: Oh, that sucks. I've always used, "My hands are tied. There's really nothing I can do about the University's policies on these matters. And by the way, I put the relevant section of the Honor Code on the syllabus." Which reminds me: it really makes sense to include that boilerplate language on the syllabus.

As for meddling parents, I used to have to deal with them all the time at my previous job (at a small, very expensive private school). But I haven't hear from a parent since moving to a big, public school.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:50 PM
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184 to 182.

175 sounds nice. It feels good to find a partner who is a separate independent voice that counterbalances you.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:50 PM
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183.1: Jesus, I'm so sorry. Ugh. Please tell me your university will back you up on failing this kid.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:53 PM
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has opinions about things, has thought about them, and isn't shy about stating them.

Personally, I'm never more than two out of three here, in any combination.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:56 PM
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How can you think about not-opinions and be not shy about stating not-them?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 10:58 PM
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Ari, I tried to leave a bitchy comment at your blog, which is now readable, but I couldn't.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:02 PM
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Had a change of heart?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:04 PM
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I was just about click post... and I froze up.

I could hardly believe what I had become.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:05 PM
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180: As long as you don't say things like "men tend to act like entitled twerps sometimes" (119), I'll be happy. We are trans-dichotomy! We are post-gender! Anyone can act like a privileged twat sometimes or all the time, and it's just a question of relative strengthly assholishness!

I'm getting a little punchy.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:06 PM
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191: Hmm. I'll have to give the matter further consideration.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:06 PM
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Only women can act like twats and really inhabit the role.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:07 PM
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Bitchy comment made!

Woohoo!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:12 PM
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Why won't wordpress stop lying to me? Why give a number of minutes until the dashboard will be available if said number has, clearly, nothing to do with actual availability?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:12 PM
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195: Well, I *will* say things like that, because I happen to think it's true. Is your problem that I used the word "men" instead of "people"? B/c one, in context, we were talking about men, and two, *that's* imposing a false dichotomy as well (especially if you're going to get mad about it and start yelling at me for being essentialist, the more so when I clarify that yeah, women *also* act like entitled twerps sometimes, duh).


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:13 PM
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My comment at EotAW was not bitchy, but cute.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:15 PM
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Ben, you could send it to me in an e-mail. Or just say it here.

Also, we're staying on the coast right now (a Mother's Day getaway). While walking the puppy just now, I could hear the surf. And there's a working lighthouse about 200 yards from our cottage. So every few seconds the light illuminates the drapes in our room. On top of all of that, the puppy seems to have learned to go to the door and whine when she has to pee.

I have very strong opinions about how lucky I am to be living almost exactly the life that I used to dream of living -- before tamping down my dreams as unrealistic and unseemly. I have thought about these opinions in great depth. But I almost always keep said opinions to myself. So I'm probably not the man for AWB.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:16 PM
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202: It sounds like you are having an absolutely lovely weekend.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:17 PM
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#116: You do realize that if the guy had had an accent, or been dark-skinned, or young, he'd have been out of that car and flat on his belly, right?

Yeah, but then again, if such a guy also had the sweet recording setup this guy had, he'd have gotten an awesome video of official misbehavior and/or brutality.

We need more people doing this kind of stuff. But that's unlikely to happen, since how many of us (1) have video cameras in our cars, and (2) will stand on principle instead of just telling the nice officer what she wants to know and going on our way? Not many, I think, and so these kinds of encounters are likely to spread, and that scares me. Believe it or not, conservatives don't want America to become a police state.

The guy's website is also awesome and scary, with lots of information on similar outrages.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:18 PM
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187: I'm now in my first year at Large State University after finishing a degree at Small Elite Private University With Buckets Of Money. Weirdly, I never had parents intervene at SEPUWBOM, so this is my first time dealing with this issue. I do put a strongly-worded warning about plagiarism on my syllabus, but I hesitated to lecture them about it at the beginning of the term, thinking that they would feel accused before the fact. Now I realize that I need to give the lecture prefaced by something like "I realize that most of you don't need to hear what I'm about to say, but..." Live and learn, since 4 of 24 students in that class plagiarized on their final papers.

189: This is the good news-my university's policy is that the final decision about the penalty rests with the instructor. To hear them tell it at orientation last fall, the Chancellor himself could tell you that failing the class is too much, but you can hold the line. (Of course, that may not be advisable for junior faculty.)

[By the way, B, I started my blog reading lo these many years ago with you, Dr. Crazy, and Profgrrrrl.]


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:21 PM
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202: No, it sucks. I just meant that I always dreamed of living a shitty life, punctuated by crappy vacations near lighthouses that would keep my up all night, leaving me sitting in bed listening to the roar of the dying ocean, only to have my misery interrupted by a puppy who has to pee.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:22 PM
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197: Jesus, Ben.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:22 PM
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On the original topic, I'm just surprised that I haven't seen any jokes based on versions of this classic.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:25 PM
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he'd have gotten an awesome video of official misbehavior and/or brutality.

I'm sure that's great consolation to Rodney King. Come on.

I mean, I know that conservatives don't want America to become a police state. But I also know that a lot of conservatives (and liberals, for that matter) excuse police brutality against black people or poor people by saying that well, the victims *were* mouthing off, or that we didn't see all the circumstances, etc.

The video's a nice little protest against border patrol type traffic stops, which I think are obnoxious, racist, and unconstitutional. Good for the guy who made it. OTOH, what actual good is done by it, other than his being able to flex his constitutional rights in a situation where the people who are most affected by that kind of thing wouldn't be able to get away with it?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:26 PM
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205.2: Hurrah!
205.3: Awww, thanks!
206: Well, I realized that you were griping about the lighthouse and the puppy. But, you know, big picture and everything. Lighthouses are pretty. Puppies that can ask to be let out are a net good. I probably should have said, though, that it sounds like Mrs. Ari is having a lovely mother's day weekend, and that you are to be congratulated.
209: On second thought, I'm sounding kind of unnecessarily Strasian; please excuse. My husband is upsetting me slightly.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:29 PM
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200: Is your problem that I used the word "men" instead of "people"?

Yes. That said, I'm not yelling at you. I'm ridiculously exaggerating, in keeping with the tenor of the thread.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:31 PM
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207: you rang?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:32 PM
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Believe it or not, conservatives don't want America to become a police state.

I'd believe it if their party of choice would stop gutting the 4th Amendment.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:32 PM
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211: Ah, okay. Sorry. See previous comment about irritating husbandly behavior.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:32 PM
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I'm sure that's great consolation to Rodney King.

It did get him a seven figure settlement.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:33 PM
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Berthelé, the former keeper at Kéréon, still works for the Department of Lighthouses and Signals on Île d'Ouessant, a treeless, sheep-filled island visited by as many as 1,000 tourists a day in the summer. Like the other former keepers, he sits in an office watching computers and weather reports.
Asked if after his time in the lighthouse, he was frustrated by everyday life in a more typical house, he thought for a moment and then said simply, but with a great and sudden passion, "I hate curtains."

Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:36 PM
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215: Meh, I'd rather be able-bodied than rich, myself.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:39 PM
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Good night, all. And thanks for 216, eb.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:42 PM
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212: Only to ask whether your remark regarding women as inhabiting the twat ... habitus ...

Oh.

It's pretty late here, you see, and. And really I did notice the resemblance earlier between twerp, twit, and twat. And. And if I tried I could make a case for 'twerpitude' as a form of emasculation. Something like that. But. That handwavy shit isn't really my forte.

How's that for a rescue?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:47 PM
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I'd rather be able-bodied than rich

He's still pretty resilient. Took a"Cheney" just last year, came through fine.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:49 PM
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Your knowledge of King's post-beating life is a little weird, GS.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:57 PM
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I hadn't kept up with Ari's vacation tale. Hearing the surf is fantastically worthwhile.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 11:58 PM
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Puppies that can ask to be let out are a net good.
Everything else is bonus.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 12:04 AM
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208: Greatest Onion headline EVER.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 12:13 AM
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eb, 182 is awesome. I don't always respond to your comments, but I chuckle at them often. I love Fowler.

White Bear in 165:

I don't want to agree with any general statements about nice guys, but I'm terribly afraid that that's what's going on with the guy that I'm seeing.

He's felt abandoned by a lot pf people: the Canadian group he hung out with in Boston, his old friends from grad school and a guy who left his rowing team with little warning which means that the 4 he's rowed in with the good boats won't be able to race.

I feel awful about the thought of dumping him right now, because I appreciate the fact that he's been willing to make himself vulnerable. I know that that's not a good reason to stay with someone, but I'm just mentioning that I feel that way.

Also (and on a different subject) last night he wanted to titty fuck me. I think that he's quite inexperienced and has probably watched a fair amount of porn for that reason, but I just wanted to cry later. In fact, I kind of want to cry now.

I told him that I wasn't okay with that, and later I explained how upset I'd been. He clearly felt terrible and realized that he had crossed a line and done something wrong. He reiterated how much he wants me to feel comfortable, but, God, I really wanted to leave right then.

To be fair to him, we haven't had intercourse yet, and he had a very bad case of blue balls. (I don't trust condoms as BC on their own, and I'm waiting for an appointment to get a prescription for the pill. I'm really hoping that I can tolerate it.)


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 3:35 AM
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I forgot to post AWB's comment from 165:

nice men can often be guys who just want a relationship with someone, anyone, and they try to create rapport where there isn't one.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 3:37 AM
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I will just go ahead and apologize in advance for laughing at this story. For a moment I was thinking "different strokes and all, doesn't seem like that big a deal", until I got to this

we haven't had intercourse yet

Oh hell, going for the titty fuck with a chick you haven't slept with yet? How old is this guy? What a trainwreck.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 4:01 AM
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Hey, Williams and Sonoma? Where the fuck is my Ebelskiver Pan. I ordered it 10 days ago. We're supposed to be making awesome Danish pancakes this morning you incompetent twits.

Happy Mother's Day everybody.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 4:32 AM
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227:

I salute men like this. They are always the least clued-in, but I have a vague affection for guys who, lacking the skill to pull off a single lutz, go for the triple axel in the hopes that difficulty points will make up the difference.


Posted by: tw | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 5:46 AM
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BG. Dude.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 6:50 AM
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My favorite part of these discussions is that they make me extremely suspicious of the "I just don't think we're right for each other" dumpification that I received a few weeks ago.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 7:26 AM
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BG:

That sounds like a very uncomfortable moment.

He sounds horribly inexperienced, but it sounds like he reacted well when you said no.

The titty fuck request doesnt sound as horrible as does his statement that he had blue balls.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 7:29 AM
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I wish more people felt comfortable about saying "I just dont think we are right for each other."

Why should more be required?

It doesnt mean anything bad about either person. It doesnt mean that you fail at life.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 7:33 AM
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It doesn't mean anything bad about either person. It doesn't mean that you fail at life.

Yes it does. The quest for relationships has to have consequences.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 7:48 AM
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I was depressed for days after Emerson didnt spend more time with me in DC.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 7:52 AM
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233-235 represent a fascinating look into the sociology of the fragile anti-relationship coalition.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 8:11 AM
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We're bitter enemies, Sifu. I see people being tempted into the relationship-divorce web, and I try to warn them.

Will doesn't care, though, because they always get caught anyway, and then he sucks out their juices. I'm like Hamilton Burger or the Washington Generals.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 8:21 AM
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228: I think you mean "æbleskiver pan". Also, I can't tell from the WS ad, but the kind you want is the new model with the flat (as opposed to hollowed-out) underside. The heating is more even and the pan stays hotter, which is totally the key to good æbleskiver. The new style of pan is not yet widespread, but it is worth the trouble of searching for one.

Also, in re: BostonianGirl's clueless friend. That is definitely a drag. I'm not sure whom to feel worse for. Sad. Everybody should get a hug.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 8:23 AM
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i'm disappointed that AWB and BG fail to prove my predictions, though it's of course not their fault
i'm glad that AWB's date is a pretty extraordinary guy, though i'm not sure how one can exceed in extraordinarity BW
i feel sorry for the BG's date hope he'll make this great opportunity help him a bit to regain his confidence, but i saw BG and PDG's picture on flickr and maintain that they would do a very nice looking couple
238 Minneapolitan, i did not understand yesterday how Mandela can be named together with sawimbi and bin laden, when he was fighting apartheid
he ranks for me together with Che and Ghandi


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 8:32 AM
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239: Yes, Mandela was fighting apartheid. The African National Congress was a "terrorist organization" according to the government of the United States. My point was that using words like "terrorism" is redolent of political and intellectual laziness. If you are opposed to political violence, that's great, bully for you. But that means you're opposing Nelson Mandela, Che Guevara, John Brown, Emma Goldman and a whole host of other people who have used political violence effectively over the course of history in order to bring about results which I, at least, feel were positive. If you want to actively participate in political discourse, then it seems to me that you must make distinctions between the types and causes of political violence, rather than just throwing up your hands and wondering why those "terrorists" are so gosh-darn mean.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 8:40 AM
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Maybe I haven't been read this thread as carefully as I should, but we're discussing whether BG can resort to political violence in her dating life? I'm going to have to come down on the "no" side on that one.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 8:51 AM
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Read, I see, is my bitterest of enemies, an actual matchmaker.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 8:55 AM
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Atrios has just made my point about how people calculate the cost of driving (calculating the cost of gas and not the "fixed costs"):

A big issue with how people perceive their costs of operating their cars is that most of the costs are fixed, and they therefore see the marginal cost of driving as much lower than the average cost. Nobody really thinks they spend 54.1 cents every time they drive a mile, because car payments, insurance, and even maintenance are perceived as fixed costs.

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 9:01 AM
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242: Sweep the leg, read!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 9:10 AM
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Over at Kotskoland there's a thread about relationships, Sex in the City, Houellebecq, and other dumb stuff of that type.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 9:17 AM
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The titty fuck request doesnt sound as horrible as does his statement that he had blue balls.

I agree with Will, I think, unless BG's fellow actually used the phrase "titty fuck."


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 9:26 AM
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Hey, Williams and Sonoma? Where the fuck is my Ebelskiver Pan. I ordered it 10 days ago. We're supposed to be making awesome Danish pancakes this morning you incompetent twits.

A pan that only makes seven pancakes, and then (presumably, it doesn't say) breaks down, is not a bargain.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 9:40 AM
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i thought Flippanter is a young attractive woman who knows about Alcibiades, right?
now when AWB is happily dating, my priority should be BW's happiness, so what do you think, Flippanter?
Mandela and Che Guevara's methods were may be violent but they meant good for mankind and given other opportunities they would have participated in building a better life for everyone, not destruction
their lives helped to move overall things to the more progressive better brighter happier side, so sometimes violent methods are justifiable like in Resistance especially if the other side is fascism dictatorship and apartheid
while the other names you mentioned were all petty people opressors, so i objected only to their being named together not your argument


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 9:41 AM
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so i objected only to their being named together not your argument

I think grouping admirable people with horrible people was central to Minneapolitan's point.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 9:44 AM
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just to make a witty point for the sake of it is not a point of any discussion imo
but what one enjoys that matters maybe too
about pancakes, 7 is unlucky number better to make it 6 or 9


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 9:49 AM
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just to make a witty point for the sake of it is not a point of any discussion imo

He wasn't being witty for the sake of it -- his point was that the category of "terrorist" is problematic because it groups all of these people together.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 9:51 AM
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i did not say that he made a witty point for its sake
i think i got his argument about naming all terrorist and grouping them all together
and think it is not appropriate
may be should make distinctions between justifiable liberating movements and condemnable terrorism, that's all i'm saying


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:01 AM
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while the other names you mentioned were all petty people opressors

Emma Goldman?


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:03 AM
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may be should make distinctions between justifiable liberating movements and condemnable terrorism, that's all i'm saying

That's ALSO what he's saying. You see.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:04 AM
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Who is dissing Emma? I will cut them.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:05 AM
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I refer you to this, and then I'm going to stop: If you want to actively participate in political discourse, then it seems to me that you must make distinctions between the types and causes of political violence


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:05 AM
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24 Hour Petty People


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:06 AM
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i don't know if you read his original comment talking about 'luminaries of sorts' i think you would find it objectionable too


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:07 AM
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257: How picky are you? Are you picky enough?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:08 AM
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248: i thought Flippanter is a young attractive woman who knows about Alcibiades, right?

I'm pretty sure Flippanter is male, read.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:09 AM
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You can make puffy pancakes in a regular cast-iron pan, you damn yuppies.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:11 AM
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Let's get back to talking about Will sucking out people's juices.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:11 AM
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But let's all just think about attractive women who know about Alcibiades anyway. Isn't that lovely?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:11 AM
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Isn't Minneapolitan female, while we're scrambling things?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:11 AM
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Alameida, oudemia, and BG are all attractive women who know about Alcibiades, and I salute them.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:13 AM
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You can make puffy pancakes in a regular cast-iron pan, you damn yuppies.

Harder to make tiny filled ones, though. If gswift wants to make his pancake pan more versatile, he could also use it to make takoyaki.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:13 AM
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Let's get back to talking about Will sucking out people's juices.

That's grounds for divorce in some places.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:13 AM
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Or Okonomiyaki!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:14 AM
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"may be should make distinctions between justifiable liberating movements and condemnable terrorism, that's all i'm saying

That's ALSO what he's saying. You see."

Really? I thought minneapolitan was saying the opposite--like the right, it's useful to the extreme left to put all those names under the same banner.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:14 AM
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Or Okonomiyaki!

Nooo, those are not tiny and poofy.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:15 AM
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pity that again i'm wrong
i mean it's ok, male or female doesn't matter if people find each other pretty
so may be i'd recommend F to FL :) coz i like symmetry


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:15 AM
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Now I want pancakes.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:16 AM
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270: right, I was thinking (for some reason) of a conventional pancake pan.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:18 AM
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Francois Villon thought Alcibiades was a woman, because of all the sexual innuendo about him.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:18 AM
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Now I want pancakes.

Do you have The Joy of Cooking? 'Cause held within is a truly great recipe for lemon pancakes.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:18 AM
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But Minneapolitan is a big hairy guy.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:19 AM
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So what's the consensus? Has this prediction come true?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:20 AM
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I do not have The Joy of Cooking. But lemon pancakes sound tasty.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:20 AM
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Cala, make crepes. Then squeeze lemon juice over them. Maybe a little sugar. Voila.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:21 AM
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Really? I thought minneapolitan was saying the opposite--like the right, it's useful to the extreme left to put all those names under the same banner.

You're quite right that I wasn't accurate in saying that the main point was to discriminate between 'good' and 'bad' political violence.

Rather, the point, I thought, was something like: Let's be honest, this 'terrorism' label is silly and dishonest: there's just political violence, and some of it we might approve of and some we don't, but the difference isn't in the methods. It's dishonest to pretend that the violent acts themselves are categorically different from one another. The differences are in the goals and motivations.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:21 AM
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Five Points makes the most perfect tiny lemon pancakes at their brunch. And cherry bellinis.

Instead, I am gnawing on a bagel and finishing graaaaaading. But with far fewer As.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:23 AM
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And part two: You should remember, when you condemn terrorism, that you may well be condemning things that you actually approve of.

Does that seem fair?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:24 AM
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"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, so send not to ask for whom the abyss tolls; it also looks into you," or something like that?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:27 AM
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I'm grading too! I'm graddddddddddddddding, with about that ratio of A's:D's.

(Not actually true. But each D is a tiny stab to my heart, and each A is a cursory glance, so the wounds accumulate.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:28 AM
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send not to ask for whom the abyss tolls; it also looks into you

Words to live by, verily!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:31 AM
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274: Emerson drops again into Markson mode. Never underestimate the power of the declarative sentence.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:31 AM
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Words to live by, verily!

Indeed.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:45 AM
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A good teaching flunks with joy, Heeb. And with love. Have you not read The Zen of Teaching? The one with the samurai on the cover cutting off heads?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:46 AM
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I have never read Markson. But then, why should I? I produce my own Marksonisms. Authentic, non-commercial, pristine Marksonisms.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:47 AM
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Don't forget 'artisanal'.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:49 AM
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This is one of your greatest posts, Labs.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:53 AM
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280 is how I took it & I think it's a bunch of crap, but I'd kind of rather go make lemon crepes now.


Posted by: katherine | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:54 AM
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In fact, I think *I* am going to make some lemon crepes for breakfast. They do sound good.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:55 AM
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284: But each D is a tiny stab to my heart, ..., so the wounds accumulate

So they wound your heart with monotonous languor?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:57 AM
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If everybody leaves to go make lemon crepes, I'll be forced to hang out with the dumb thread again. Let's not let it come to that.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:57 AM
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Incidentally, RFTS, if you're still here, while I haven't settled the question of who has the highest per-comment use of the word "indeed", I have determined that, if we confine ourselves to the archived comments, you and I are tied for number of comments in which the word "indeed" appears (a scant 98!).


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:00 AM
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Thank you, merganser. That's the very word I was digging for.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:00 AM
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245: Have I ever mentioned that based on the all of two posts written by Dominic over at Kotskoland that I've read, I like him? Face it: you are powerless over the word! Or against it. In the face of it. Whichever.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:02 AM
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290: Don't forget 'artisanal'.

Artisanal litotes.
White people like them. Not to overlook.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:03 AM
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So they wound your heart with monotonous languor?

This phrase, monotonous languor, is causing me to think of, under the description "somewhat evocative and somewhat nonsensical phrase I can't remember", a somewhat evocative etc., and I don't think I'll ever remember it, and it's DRIVING ME MAD.

This, on top of my being unable to remember a phrase that only A White Bear can help me recover, and she keeps IGNORING ME.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:04 AM
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read, I generally adore your stance of sweet innocence, but I can't really believe the stuff you've written above. Contemporary "bad" terrorists think that they are working towards making the world a better place, you know. "Distinctions between justifiable liberating movements and condemnable terrorism" are subjective, not objective.

Blah. RFTS said it better anyway.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:07 AM
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I think what read wrote is 10x more defensible than what minneapolitan wrote.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:09 AM
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There's some level at which revolutionaries become simple bandits, though. I doubt that Savimbi really thought he was making the world a better place by the time he started cutting deals with white South Africa and the Portuguese colonialists.

And you can always say that Mandela was right and Bin Laden was wrong. (Though Mandela spent most of the revolution sitting in jail anyway, not blowing anything up or anything.)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:12 AM
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Les sanglots longs
des violons
de l'automne
blessent mon coeur
d'une langueur
monotone.

Tout suffocant
et blême, quand
sonne l'heure.
je me souviens
des jours anciens,
et je pleure...

Et je m'en vais
au vent mauvais
qui m'emporte
de çà, de là,
pareil à la
feuille morte...


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:15 AM
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By the way, is there a word or phrase that would describe the emotion of having won a reasonable amount of money on a bet, when betting on something that you didn't want to happen?


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:16 AM
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Winning a hedge bet. A lot of people do it.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:18 AM
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so then the Resistance was not justifiable and the nazis should have celebrated their triumph with their 1000 yrs reich something coz the Resistance fighters were terrorists and were breaking the order something?
i think AQ and Resistance are two entirely different things and can't be bunched together
Mandela'd been to the jail for how long, his one and only life and he really did not deserve to be mentioned together with mass-murderers


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:21 AM
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Je connais des gens de toutes sortes
Ils n'égalent pas leurs destins
Indécis comme feuilles mortes
Leurs yeux sont des feux mal éteints
Leurs cœurs bougent comme leurs portes


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:26 AM
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What's this about the hearts and eyes of lurs?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:28 AM
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Je connais des gens de toutes sortes
Ils n'égalent pas leurs destins
Indécis comme feuilles mortes
Leurs yeux sont des feux mal éteints
Leurs cœurs bougent comme leurs portes

I know all sorts of races.
It's not elegant, the Lur destiny.
Indecisive like dead [something].
Lur eyes are badly tainted feces.
Lur hearts bend like Lur doors.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:32 AM
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I can tell that you read Foucault in the original, coming up with wildly original interpretations.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 11:35 AM
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307 - Well, if you happened to be a Nazi, trying to keep power in occupied France, you'd probably regard the Resistance as terrorists. It depends what side you're on. Sometimes there'll be a near-unanimous agreement on whether something is justifiable or not, sometimes history will have to decide.

306 - yeah, I know what it is. The mixture of emotions is quite entertaining to watch (£350 won on Reading being relegated) - I'd like to be able to say, "oh, you're so X".


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 1:30 PM
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310: "Leaves"?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 1:52 PM
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i thought Flippanter is a young attractive woman who knows about Alcibiades, right?

Sure, if by "young attractive woman" you mean "thirtysomething hairy, sarcastic man."

now when AWB is happily dating, my priority should be BW's happiness, so what do you think, Flippanter?

I think my personal favorite participant in the Nazi resistance movements would tell us that our priority should be compliance with the will of God, as expressed in the Sermon on the Mount, in the hope of grace rather than the expectation of justification, but I'm sure BW's happiness would be nice, too.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 2:02 PM
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re: 312

Gah. My pre-Match_of_the_Day 'Likely Lads' style avoidance of all news media, violated!

Still, sorry about your team.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 2:05 PM
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Shit, sorry ttaM - I guess you thought you'd be safe here! Not my team though, I couldn't give a toss about football. Still worth watching MOTD though.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 2:29 PM
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re: 316

's OK. I'm not that fussed about Reading, myself, either. No harm done!


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 3:38 PM
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outside was windy and cold for May
yeah, Flippanter, i know my mistake and kinda suggested a new match F&FL but i may be wrong about your orientations, of both of you i mean
so i will refrain from further suggestions
for JE, nice yellow not dead autumn leaves
hope you can listen to it b/c the lyrics are great
i can't translate it still yet


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 3:39 PM
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300: It turns out it was not me who can unlock these mysteries, for those keeping score.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 3:44 PM
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Who was it, then?


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 4:15 PM
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NO ONE KNOWS.

I am he that burns with unquenched curiosity!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 4:16 PM
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It might actually be me, but I have been killing a lot of brain cells this spring.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 4:19 PM
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315: I initially read "Derby" for "Reading" and was wondering what rock you'd been living under for the last two months.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 5:06 PM
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Is anyone really that fussed about Reading?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 5:33 PM
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re: 324

The sad benighted souls who live in or near Reading?


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 6:24 PM
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325: I got an email from a friend earlier reading "The rails . . . there was never much into them, anyway."

That was shortly after an email that said, "Gunners need to get their wallet out."


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 6:29 PM
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"The rails . . . there was never much into them, anyway."

This would be much more intriguing without any referents. I love getting emails like that.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 6:33 PM
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Fun fact: I've been playing the Premiership '07-'08 season in FIFA08 for the past few weeks. The computer has had Derby at the top of the table for at least half the season. (I'm playing Liverpool and have managed to take first place 27 games in, but Derby's still lurking 2 points down.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 6:50 PM
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we haven't had intercourse yet

Wow. And then he just up and asked you for a titty-fuck? How embarrassing. If you do see this guy in public again--and that isn't something I recommend--at some point when you're within earshot of lots of people you should say very loudly "Honey, can I massage your prostate again tonight?"

Would I fuck Jenna? That depends on how angry George would be when he found out.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:02 PM
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Whoops! I somehow totally missed BG's tittyfucking story above. Seems to me there are a lot of things two people could do other than PIV intercourse that might be a lot more fun for both and fully relieving of sexual frustration.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:12 PM
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And don't sound like you got your ideas about sex from porn & the locker room. BG, you do not sound enthused.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:16 PM
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Seems to me there are a lot of things two people could do other than PIV intercourse that might be a lot more fun for both and fully relieving of sexual frustration.

No kidding (and BG's guy sounds like a tool for not suggesting one of them). But I can say from personal experience that some women do enjoy that sort of thing. (No, it wasn't my idea.)


Posted by: Spiro T. Agnew | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:29 PM
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It's not the act itself that grates; it's the naming of it like that. You want to spontaneously maneuver a few silly porny moves in bed? Fine. But asking for it is tacky. Like, for example, the facial issue. Someone comes on my face in bed? Probably funny and fine. Someone asks to come on my face, and calls it a "facial," while we're not in bed? Go fuck yourself.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:35 PM
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Ah, I see. I agree completely. Comity!


Posted by: Spiro T. Agnew | Link to this comment | 05-11-08 10:44 PM
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"The rails . . . there was never much into them, anyway."

All that talk about "going to infinity", and they peter out after five minutes.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:16 AM
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Is this the football thread? Would've missed it if it weren't for dear Ben. Go Fulham! (US National team writ small). I'd also applaud titty-fucking, but 225 makes me want to cry as well.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:34 AM
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Titty-fucking in general is worthy of approbation, but the approach really is everything.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:44 AM
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the approach really is everything

You have to sneak up from behind, real quiet-like.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:51 AM
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Is anyone really that fussed about Reading?

Well, C for a start! Apparently 350 quid is not going any near assuaging his disappointment. He thinks it would take at least 5 grand.

Personally, I think it's a good thing - means ticket prices will come down again! Plus they have the possibility of being promoted again - they were never going to win the Premiership, and I don't see how people can get excited about coming 10th rather than 15th.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:41 AM
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338 - from behind? That's never going to work.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:43 AM
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I move like a cat, asilon.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:45 AM
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A cat with a scarily long dick?

(Yeah, don't answer that question. Don't even think of Googling.)


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:42 AM
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Those English girls are always encouraging naughty talk!


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:44 AM
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When I saw Jenna's smiley photograph earlier today it really did flip back and forth like a Necker cube: pretty, W, pretty, W, pretty, aaagh!

A phenomenon otherwise known as the 'chimp-flibbertigibbet'.


Posted by: Amit | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:36 AM
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BG's guy should have proposed assturbation.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:55 AM
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And then he really could have snuck up from behind!

BG - sorry if it seems we're making light of your predicament. It sounded very icky, and I hope you can either get him to understand what might or might not sound pleasant to you, or dump him gracefully.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:04 AM
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342: looks like a cat, quacks like a cat, moves like a cat: it's an argentine lake duck.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:04 AM
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346: asilon, it's unfogged. I knew there would be some jokes in there somewhere. gswift's comment was a little bit harsher than what I was expecting.

Now I feel somewhat bad about mentioning it, because the guy is quite sweet and felt really terrible when I explained it to him. I think Will's right; it's just that he's very inexperienced and a bit clueless.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:13 AM
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At the same time, BG, he made you want to cry. I mean, not that he's a bad person or anything like that, but I'm all for the philosophy that you should be with someone who makes you feel good and it doesn't sound like this is happening. To the extent that you've hinted that you are sticking with him (in part) because you feel sort of sorry for him and don't want to hurt his feelings, consider that you might end up hurting his feelings more if you wait until he's really attached to let him know it's just not working for you.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:56 AM
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BG, not to simply this too much, but it strikes me as somehow really wrong if someone you're with proposes a sex act, stupid or not, and it makes you want to cry---more than once. My point is, there is no such thing as a "dealbreaker," not if you're really nuts about someone. If you really wanted to be with this guy, and he said something like that, you would have responded with "No, gah! Hee!" or "Mayyyyybe.... hee." And the fact that your response is not even to be mad, but to feel sorry for him; well, this guy has come up before.

I'm not saying he's a bad guy at all, but in the context of how you find yourself responding to him, it really does not sound like he turns your crank. It sounds like you feel an obligation to be with him. That may feel good to him right now, but when this is all over, you might feel (as I often have) like you wasted a lot of time.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:00 AM
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Er, what Di said.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:01 AM
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I should add, I've put up with a lot of crazy shit from guys I was totally entranced by, and I've never regretted it. (You know that feeling that there are some faces you can't say no to, or be hurt by? I know this is a phase, but it's one I don't go through with everyone I date.) But I've also put up with shit from guys because I sort of pitied them, and that only feels horrible afterwards. I didn't do them any favors by sticking around, and I didn't do myself any, either.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:12 AM
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You know that feeling that there are some faces you can't say no to, or be hurt by?

The former, yes. The latter? Alas, no.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:25 AM
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gswift's comment was a little bit harsher than what I was expecting.

Sorry!


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:28 AM
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354: for penance you get titty-fucked. Them's the rules!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:29 AM
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I agree with AWB and Di. Your reaction to it tells you a lot about your feelings regarding this guy. (See Tom Brady sexual harassment video from SNL)

As AWB said, it doesn't sound like he is turning your crank.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:41 AM
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You know who is seriously turning my crank right now? OMG. I just got a text (because we're like that) and I'm all a-twitter. I wish I weren't gloating, but I think I am. Sigh, sigh, sigh.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:16 AM
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w00t, AWB!


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:28 AM
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Sigh. I am full of envy, AWB. But yay!!!! for you.

I, in contrast, am all a-bitter. Had dinner this weekend with a friend of mine, who shared some rather suggestive e-mails she has been receiving from the guy I recently broke up with (twice...). She doesn't know I dated him. I feel a bit consoled by the fact that her reaction was to ask me if I thought it was bordering on sexual harassment.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:32 AM
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305 s there a word or phrase that would describe the emotion of having won a reasonable amount of money on a bet, when betting on something that you didn't want to happen?

Mostly happy.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:34 AM
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357: You needn't feel guilty, God will punish you and then everything will be cool again.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:41 AM
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361: I would be fine with that. It's worth it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:45 AM
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359: Would it not be kind and helpful to inform her that you dated, even if you remain supportive and semi-neutral? It would feel odd to find that out later, I think.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:46 AM
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363: Yeah, I've been kind of chewing that over. Part of the reason she didn't know in the first place is that she has a very hard time keeping her mouth shut, especially when she's out drinking with folks from the office (we work together, all three of us), and I don't really care to have my business publicized throughout my place of business. She means well, but can't help running her mouth off. At the same time, if she's giving it even half a thought, she should probably know.

I broke up with him the second time (in part) because she had mentioned in passing that he was getting a little flirty with her. He insisted she was imagining things and then made this big point about how even if he did find her attractive, it would be colossally poor judgment to pursue her because (a) she's a gossip, and (b) she has issues. He's such a dirtbag. Which is great, in that it has cured me of my pining. But still.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:00 AM
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362: Wow, you sound really happy. Excellent!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:01 AM
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364: Ugh, that sucks, Di. He does sound like a dirtbag.

365: Baffled, really, but deciding to just go with it and see what happens.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:12 AM
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He is a lawyer. Buyer beware.

My vote is not to share your information with the firm gossip.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:22 AM
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363, 367: This is exactly what I was thinking...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:32 AM
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But, that still stinks.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:35 AM
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Baffled, really, but deciding to just go with it and see what happens.

Not to pry too much, but... is the girlfriend out of the picture now, AWB?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:22 PM
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so i recalled getting a text message saying i love you, don't forget to turn your clock 1hr earlier
coz it was in october
it felt nice, though i was thinking like all no you don't, my people say ILU once in a lifetime, it's not that i'm going to sleep with you right away, all i need for now is a friendly companion to go to the movies, museums maybe etc
then the day we were to meet i got nervous and sent him a sms that i can't coz have a meeting, to try his reaction maybe too
and got a reply saying you are another freak or flake or something i forgot, and even fuck off
i was startled, the change from ILU to fuck off was really like shocking
well, it was almost two yrs ago, after that i had some other equally strange encounters, it's funny that people first take me for a japanese and when i inform them that i'm not, get all like antropological
and i'm all like it's funny, it's not about you, it's i who have to overcome my own barriers first to even just meet you
so it's like an instant back off,


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:47 PM
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s


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:50 PM
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371:
That's a bummer, read. People are jerks sometimes.

What do you mean, that people get "ant[h]ropological" when you tell them that you are not Japanese?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:55 PM
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i don't know may be people are just genuinely interested what people we are, what we look like what we think what we eat etc
and i'm kinda always get too sensitive to continue to try to converse


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:09 PM
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read that's when start punching. Stand up for yourself!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:11 PM
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I find it odd that in the US it would be assumed that an Asian person is Japanese. Especially in the health/biomedical science field. I've met about two people from Japan here, but several dozen from China. Japanese people stay in Japan.


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:18 PM
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I find it odd that you would assume that read's in the US.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:19 PM
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I find it odd that you find it odd that people on the internet assume that you are from the US.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:25 PM
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Well, all her flickr pictures are taken in the US. I think.


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:26 PM
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Most, not all.


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:27 PM
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i was startled, the change from ILU to fuck off was really like shocking

Mongols are naive people who do not understand our advanced civilization.

/joke


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:29 PM
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As I understand read has some connection to Japan.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:31 PM
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-'m
i speak japanese not chinese that's why perhaps


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:06 PM
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370: Yes.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:17 PM
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Well, if you happened to be a Nazi, trying to keep power in occupied France, you'd probably regard the Resistance as terrorists

Note that an awfully high proportion of the French Resistance were actually Stalinists.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:46 AM
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re: 385


An awfully high proportion of the Red Army were too!


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:52 AM
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Actually, double checking, Ho Chi Minh was a member of that same French communist party. So, that particular party has a pretty good track record on dealing with occupying powers.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:57 AM
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Stalin/COMINTERN tried to fuck with Ho Chi Minh, failed miserably, and yadda etc, now they sell us shrimp. Go capitalism!

And, yes, AWB, you do sound all lovey-dizzy. I hope you're happy for yourself.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:50 AM
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388.2.2 came out wrong, in that I meant to be curmudgeonly with an implicit woo! etc. As I read it now, it just appears mean-spirited. Some day I will learn to use Preview, but it will not be soon.

So, enjoy (?) your lovey-dizziness (though I feel sympathy for Ms. Ex in the same way I do Maginot), and may it collapse into a less-fraught happiness soon. And by all means woo.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:05 AM
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Implicit woo taken as such! Thanks! I will do my best to uphold the no-relationship policy as long as possible, of course.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:10 AM
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Woo! likewise. And another vote for "It's not that the tittyfuck request makes him a bad person necessarily, but if it made you want to cry you probably aren't actually enjoying dating him, and should go off and find someone more fun." for BG. Sorry life's being annoying for you.

(And oy! to the internal law firm drama for Di -- that is rough. Lawyers gossip like teenagers, and I'd agree that maintaining security is an excellent idea.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:40 AM
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From 344:

Or the 'schmuck-coquette'.


Posted by: Amit | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 6:38 AM
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370: Yes.

Yay! Full speed ahead... (!!!!!)


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:29 AM
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Well, if you happened to be a Nazi, trying to keep power in occupied France, you'd probably regard the Resistance as terrorists
i think it's a stupid argument
i don't understand what people are defending here, the nazis? nowadays 'bad' terrorists? or non-violence?
all i said sawimbi and Mandela are two completely different people and agendas and don't mix them
i don't think people here would have been nazis back then
or if to follow the logic quoted above would have been and very orderly ones


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:56 AM
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the


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:00 AM
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What I'm saying, read, is that easy recourse to words like "terrorist" tends to obscure actual political discussion and distinctions in favor of know-nothing, knee-jerk condemnation. Take a look at history's greatest monsters. Did Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Vlad the Impaler, Torquemada etc. etc. ever wake up in the morning and think to themselves "haha, I'm going to go out and do horrible, evil things today"? Of course not. They all had political justifications for what they did. And more to the point, other people could justify their actions as well. When "Uncle Joe" was tying up Hitler's divisions on the Eastern Front, there sure weren't too many articles about purges and show trials in the New York Times.

We're all on the internet here. Name a hero and you can probably find someone who would count them among the worst of the worst, and use "terrorism" as their justification for doing so. Even those political leaders who have explicitly renounced violence have invariably been blamed for any "terrorism" that occurred within their sphere of influence.

You say that its wrong to lump Jonas Savimbi and Nelson Mandela in with each other. And I agree. Other than the fact that they were contemporary African leaders who used violence to further their political ends, they don't have much in common. And that's exactly the kind of precision in argumentation that I'm demanding that people aspire to at a minimum. If you think OBL's a bad guy (and I'm not arguing that he's a saint by any means), then tell my WHY. It can't just be because he uses violence to further his cause though, because we've certainly established that other people of whom you think highly did the same. So tell me, particularly and in detail, why you have a problem with a given practitioner of political violence, and then we will have the beginnings of a discussion. Anything less than that and we're down at the level of Rush Limbaugh's listeners or the LGF commentariat.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:10 AM
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Minneapolitan you're not willing to give "explicitly targeted civilian populations" as a condition, are you?

No, didn't think so.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:19 AM
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You say that its wrong to lump Jonas Savimbi and Nelson Mandela in with each other. And I agree
the end of argument
about bin laden, i would have nothing against him if he actually came out and tried to explode himself in order to promote his agenda whatever is dear to him, that would be even like saintly perhaps
but staying in the safety of his wherever he is and sending to sure suicide death the poor brainwashed youngsters to do so is cowardly and unjustified imo


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:23 AM
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the


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:25 AM
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400


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:40 AM
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397: Sifu, you're not willing to give "strategic bombing of civilian population centers by the air forces of countries you agree with in wars you agree with," are you?

No, didn't think so.

Sooner or later you've got to face facts: the criteria that are useful in distinguishing acts of political violence are almost always political, not violent. Realizing that does make it very hard to live in a society that metes out horrific acts of violence against its political opponents on a virtually constant basis. But we weren't discussing the best way to live in the belly of the beast without feeling upset, were we?


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:59 AM
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