Re: The privilege of plaid pants with paisley vests.

1

Sweet umbrella.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 11:27 AM
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W-lfs-n just let the "privilige" pass right by? Truly, it's a new era.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 11:27 AM
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I didn't notice at first, and was just about to comment on it.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 11:30 AM
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You all must be crazy. I coudn't possibly know what you're talking about.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 11:32 AM
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And I do have super taste. Oh yes.

Oh, yes.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 11:34 AM
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No, evidently you couldn't.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 11:34 AM
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I used to wear a suit and tie to teach. The students liked the old-world elegance I brought to campus. Or they said they did in my evaluations. But then I got tenure and decided to get a jump on being old by not caring what I look like any more. So I put on a few pounds, stopped lifting weights, and began wearing whatever I wanted in the classroom. Tenure rocks. They should have something like it for fat black people.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 11:42 AM
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holy norman-podhoretz-on-crack, batman


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 11:48 AM
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You'll never make full professor like that, ari.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 11:56 AM
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I think that that woman used to post to alt.fashion, and she went to Harvard.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:00 PM
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Then she is utterly discredited!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:01 PM
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7: But the coolest tenured professors (outside of a field like economics or government) didn't wear suits they wore jackets and ties with trousers. One of my favorite professors wore a lot fo tweed jackets, and he always carried a Mont Blanc pen.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:02 PM
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He sounds like a tool.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:04 PM
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Tweed's nice, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:04 PM
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both 9 and 12 are incorrect, or at least highly discipline dependent.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:05 PM
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14 is right.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:06 PM
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Tweety likes tweedy.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:07 PM
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I had a story about this kind of defensive dressing in the comments a while back (a black lawyer I worked with mentioned having been hassled by the cops as a 'crack ho', and was all blase about it in a "Yeah, I should have known better than to run out to the laundromat in flipflops with my hair all ratty" kind of way.)

The story made a big impression on me -- it would never occur to me that dressing sloppily would have any effect at all on how the police would treat me. The fact that not everyone, in the sense of "not every professional," can feel that way shocked me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:08 PM
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I like tweed too. It's the Mont Blanc pen I don't like.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:09 PM
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Do they not write well?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:10 PM
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Another stereotype around black women who aren't well dressed -- not so much in the sense described in the article -- but really dressed down/sloppily dressed, is that they must be lazy welfare cheats. If she's fat, she's eating (and feeding her kids) junk food instead of healthy food and if she's skinny, she's probably on drugs.

"Sloppy" = the way I dress half the time.

Pwned by LB while my computer was crashing.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:10 PM
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I think within the realm of white people, your posture has a bigger effect on how you get treated by the cops than your clothes do.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:10 PM
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13: He also used to say, "Okay gang," but it didn't sound false chummy. oudemia likes him plenty. Not a tool.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:11 PM
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Slumping is not a crime.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:11 PM
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re: 198

True. All the best people use a Parker 45 Flighter they found on a market stall, for 5 quid. Objective fact.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:13 PM
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I'm sure they write fine, but they're mostly pretty ugly, and what drives a man to get a Mont Blanc fountain pen in particular? I hypothesize: toolishness. I hate those thick, stubby, cock fountain pens.

Toooooooooool.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:15 PM
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20: Not particularly


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:16 PM
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You know what I love? Mechanical pencils.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:17 PM
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The cheap bic kind, not the pretentious kind.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:18 PM
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I think within the realm of white people, your posture has a bigger effect on how you get treated by the cops than your clothes do.

Is false in general.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:18 PM
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28 is the truth. People look at me a bit oddly now that I'm in a professional environment, since I'm still using mechanical pencils. But just wait until they make a mistake in their note-taking or equation-writing! Then they'll be sorry! Plus, I can totally write way tinier and still have it be intelligable. 0.5 mm mechanical pencils are the way of the true warrior.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:20 PM
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re: 20

Well, they're conspicuously expensive. And conspicuous consumption can (sometimes) be toolish.*

* says the hypocrite who uses a 1940s Leica.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:22 PM
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I think within the realm of white people, your posture has a bigger effect on how you get treated by the cops than your clothes do.

Whereas this woman from outside the realm (nsfw) is definitely getting more attention from the police for her clothing than her defiant posture.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:23 PM
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29: But they should be just fancy enough to have that fat softer rubber fingergrip near the tip.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:23 PM
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32: 1940s Leica is quite different than buying an M8 and going on about how great it is in the face of all evidence.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:23 PM
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If she's fat, she's eating (and feeding her kids) junk food instead of healthy food and if she's skinny, she's probably on drugs.

C'est La Raison!!!!!!!! bravo


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:23 PM
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I can't imagine buying a pen. Do people not know about stealing?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:24 PM
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34: something to be said for retractable tips too, if you keep them in a pocket.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:25 PM
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They might lock you up for stealing that mont-blanc, Sifu.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:25 PM
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Is soup just trying to destroy the joy of making generalizations, or all forms of joy? I can't tell.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:26 PM
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Apparently it isn't the pen to steal. Anyhow, nobody'll catch me; I'll keep it next to my toothbrush.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:27 PM
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re: 35

True. And, mine was, er, about 120 quid [without a lens]. Which isn't really in the realm of conspicuous consumption.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:28 PM
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40 stay tuned, Walt!


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:29 PM
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it is pretty much acknowledged by all economists that nothing worth reading has been written using anything other than a Uniball 0.5mm with blue ink. At the Bank of England when I worked there, we used to actually call them "economist pens", as in "the stationary cupboard is out of economist pens".


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:30 PM
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He also used to say, "Okay gang," but it didn't sound false chummy.

If he's a classics professor he ought to address his class as "Quirites".


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:31 PM
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The Uniball 0.5mm micro is god's own pen.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:34 PM
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re: 46

I refer you to the certain facts presented in 25.

Uniball 0.5s are good, though.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:35 PM
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just noting 25 & 44 don't have an inherent contradiction


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:36 PM
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Black woman's sartorial difficulties to SWPL writing implements in less than hour. Yay us!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:37 PM
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I refer you to the certain facts presented in 25.

Until this, I hadn't realized 25 was talking about pens. I actually thought it was mis-posted, perhaps from the Skymall thread.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:37 PM
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I've never used a Parker 45 Flighter, nor purchased one for five quid, so I don't see how it could be god's own pen.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:38 PM
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What's the large black woman's best sartorial choices in pens these days, JP?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:39 PM
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My pen of choice.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:40 PM
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Maybe he could have found a Sanskrit word, or something from his parents non-IndoEuropean (but European) language.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:40 PM
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If you look closely, JP, you'll see that we never actually discussed black women's sartorial difficulties at all.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:40 PM
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Before the main post disappears into the mists of time, can I just put on record that the linked article is fantastic.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:40 PM
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re: 51

Is this where I explain the joke? The impossibly specific nature of the preference being the point ...


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:43 PM
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56 is exactly correct.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:43 PM
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Just kidding, though. My pen(s) of choice.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:44 PM
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The Uniball 0.5mm micro is god's own pen

and He's really, really pissed that you didn't give it back after you borrowed it.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:44 PM
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57: no, that's standpipes other blog

otoh, 44 could be seen as strong evidence against 46.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:44 PM
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God's pen seems like it would be tough to write with.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:45 PM
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Is this where I explain the counter-joke?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:45 PM
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What's the large black woman's best sartorial choices in pens these days, JP?

Well, this choice is highly slimming.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:45 PM
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Is this where I complain that Ben is a poopyhead?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:46 PM
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Plus, I can totally write way tinier and still have it be intelligable. 0.5 mm mechanical pencils are the way of the true warrior.

So true. So true. You know what also rocks? Rapidographs.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:46 PM
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65: take a number.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:47 PM
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Meanwhile, napkin folding!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:48 PM
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I have a slender "ladies" Mont Blanc that I got for my birthday. It looks nice, W-lfs-n. Although I do recall you disliking my Acme Eames pen for being too fat. But I do have slim, lovely pens too.

I used to dress more whimsically and garishly (pink! brooches! applique flowers!), but then I went to law school in Los Angeles and my soul was crushed by the fashionistas.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:48 PM
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Don't come down to hard on the LA fashionistas, Belle, that's a feature of law school anywhere, it seems.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 12:50 PM
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71

Knowing how to swim makes you more fashionable.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:00 PM
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Esterbrook fountain pens. Pre-ballpoint cheapies, interchangeable nibs. Fabulous pearlescent colors, easy to coordinate with a pocket square or necktie for the put-together look so others do not think less of you. Cheap, so not such a big deal if you lose one. Fountain pens and airplanes don't mix, though.

"Dress young so people won't notice that you're old" might get more mileage here.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:00 PM
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71 is a lie.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:01 PM
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Not at Berkeley! I sometimes complain that "this is where fashion goes to die," but in truth I'm grateful that I can wear sneakers and polar fleece (year 'round!) and that the predominant look is not expensive jeans (which I don't have), stilettos, big earrings, and low cut drapey tops that look like you're going clubbing. Ah, UCLA. And on top of that, 20 lbs of laptop + law books, which in combination with the stilettos, was probably unhealthy.

I do dress up a bit when I go into the city, though. And I wear colored tights--purple, bright pink. W-lfs-n will vouch for this remnant of whimsy.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:04 PM
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"Dress young so people won't notice that you're old" might get more mileage here.

Ha, this is the variety of advice my mother gives me, though it's the reverse: I should dress older, in keeping with my age. Also, long hair on women past a certain age (not sure what age this is) is inappropriate. That last was somewhat revelatory to me.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:05 PM
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Personally, I'm a big fan of the Pilot Precise V5.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:06 PM
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77

Also, long hair on women past a certain age (not sure what age this is) is inappropriate.

I had an elderly aunt who used to bully her granddaughter about this. After a while the granddaughter ran off to join a Satanist cult. Far be it from me to make a connection.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:10 PM
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something from his parents non-IndoEuropean (but European) language.

Hungarian? Finnish? Basque?


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:12 PM
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For personal use I favor the Pilot G-2 0.5mm, but at work I use a quill pen dipped in blood.


Posted by: Lucifer | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:12 PM
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Not at Berkeley!

Oh, I meant the soul crushing. Fashion is optional.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:12 PM
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55: You never did, ben. The less racist and sexist among us did.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:14 PM
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Also, long hair on women past a certain age (not sure what age this is) is inappropriate. That last was somewhat revelatory to me.

Fuck that. Ima see how long I can grow mine. Also, how the hell are you supposed to put it up in a bun? I have to think of my future.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:14 PM
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77-78 ToS alert. Tos is a fundamentalist Humean-Quinean.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:18 PM
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Is it true that mcmc rides her electric bike Lady Godiva style?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:18 PM
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85: I was thinking there needs to be some kind of button, or hotline.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:20 PM
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Oh, and don't you worry about messing up my comment numbering up above, whoever deletes those.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:20 PM
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Also, how the hell are you supposed to put it up in a bun?

Exactly. How can one be the grandmother/great aunt/beloved family friend dispensing wry wisdom, card tricks, and chocolate chip cookies without a bun?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:23 PM
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Extensions, Kraab, geez.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:24 PM
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Or a dinner roll, in a pinch.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:25 PM
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Back on your meds, troll. You're OK at tie, though not here.

For most of us the excitement of Quine and Hume has worn off, especially since we've read other books since.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:29 PM
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70 is not entirely true.


Posted by: boup siscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:33 PM
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mcmc--the obvious one.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:37 PM
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Also, how the hell are you supposed to put it up in a bun? I have to think of my future.

Glad to see that we have mcmc and Sir Kraab on board with this consideration. I'll tell my mom. She's practiced now on how to just give me the hairy eyeball and move on to other matters, like the state of my shoes.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:38 PM
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Personally, I'm a big fan of the Pilot Precise V5.

aka the "bank regulator pen". There were always fucking millions of those in the stationary cupboard.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:41 PM
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Is it true that mcmc rides her electric bike Lady Godiva style?

It's going to be a while before my hair is that long. Also, I would like Boston to have one single day without thunderstorm warnings so that I can commute as planned. I only got in 2 days last week, and none so far this week. At this rate I'm going to have to get one of these.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:42 PM
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My memory of the Miss Manners take on long hair on grown women is that it can be as long as you like, so long as it's up -- long hair down is for women not yet fully adult, while grownups have either hair above the shoulders or an updo. I think this one's a rule that died several decades ago, at least (although I did just hack off a foot of hair myself, and am feeling all sleek and maturely professional without it.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:47 PM
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For some reason I decided to search for and read Ogged's ex threads for some insight and commiseration, and 1) they don't provide much solace, and 2) they make me miss Ogged. WTF was I thinking.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:52 PM
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Personally, I'm a big fan of the Pilot Precise V5.

Architecture students' pen of choice, ca. 1993. I was in a seminar once and looked up to realize that every single person (~10) was writing with one. Some debate between V5 and V7 partisans (precision vs. boldness).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:53 PM
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I know people who like the Pilot Varsity disposable fountain pen. I would rather write with a roller ball (which I do) than a disposable fountain pen.

I actually don't mind ballpoints, if they're from Faber Castell. I like the wood barrels.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:55 PM
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Ah-ha, so that's the troll of sorrow? I see. Y'all had been deleting the comments quickly enough that I hadn't seen any.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 1:57 PM
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100: We pity you.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:00 PM
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more a troll of persistent lameness, really.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:01 PM
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:)


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:02 PM
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Part of me suspects that ToS is actually just on a mission to eliminate numbered cross-referencing, requiring italicised quotations.

Just a theory....


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:02 PM
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105

No fans of felt tips? I went through a long phase of using felt tips for note taking.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:04 PM
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Rather than deleting troll posts, I always erase them and write happy faces in their place. :-)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:10 PM
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I wish my kids could have a crazy aunt Sir Kraab and uncle m/tch!


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:12 PM
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107: is that your characteristically unsubtle way of hitting on M/tch's sister?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:13 PM
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108: Or his brother.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:19 PM
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I once found a stash of letters that my father wrote to my mother when he was in the military overseas. One of the more daring flirtations was the statement that "My sister M. [who had met my mother] would really like to have you as a sister-in-law."

It's reassuring sometimes to know that my gooberish infacility with women might have some genetic component.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:27 PM
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My memory of the Miss Manners take on long hair on grown women is that it can be as long as you like, so long as it's up -- long hair down is for women not yet fully adult, while grownups have either hair above the shoulders or an updo. I think this one's a rule that died several decades ago

Died among which generations? That's why I've been puzzled (not that I need to go on about it); but look around you, and yes, most women past, say, 40, or even 35, have shorter hair. It's interesting, odd, that's all.

The Miss Manners* rationale, that long hair is for women not yet fully adult, is not much more than a description cloaked as a rationale. I'd vaguely suggest that it's associated with the concurrent expectation that women of that age are likely mothers who are off the sexual market, and female sexuality is associated with long hair which is associated with youth, and both a carefree manner and a carefree life (no children or family, yet).

Well, this seems rather obvious. I'm momentarily distracted by questions about the extent to which long hair on men, esp. older men, is deprecated. Long hair is considered uncontrolled; shorter hair is controlled.

* M.M., J/udith Mar/tin, spoke at my grad school one year, a university-wide affair sponsored by the Philosophy dept., and while she comported herself well, there were a lot of narrowed eyes and general wonderment.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:32 PM
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deleted


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:34 PM
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My friend, my friend, back on the meds!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:35 PM
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114

What a cute troll!! Dad, can we keep him? Please? I promise I'll walk him every day!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:40 PM
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111: Also short hair is easier to deal, leaving more time for grown-up stuff.

I'm in the process of growing out my hair after a long period of buzz cuts, followed by a period of shaving it completely when I started to go noticeably bald. I've since decided I don't give a fuck what people think, I like playing with my hair, and the longer it is the more I like playing with it. Down the line I might try for some sort of compromise involving shaving the balding part and keeping the still lush part long, since one of the things I discovered during the shaved phase is that shaved scalp is feels good from the inside as well as the outside. I'll look strange, but I'll have lots of sensory gratification from touching my head.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:42 PM
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116

Nah, we'd just like a better class of troll. You're strictly bush league.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:42 PM
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71 is a lie.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:43 PM
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118

et tu, Megan?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:45 PM
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105: I like felt tips when I want to write in a bigger script. Pentel made some nice ones.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:50 PM
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So, is Guelph kind of a wasteland?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:52 PM
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Oop, wrong thread. I, troll.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:53 PM
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Is deleting the best option or does disemvoweling work better?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:53 PM
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123

44, 94: "the stationary cupboard is out of economist pens".

For God's sake people, the word is stationery, the 'e' is for envelope! Once was bad enough but twice?!

Really. I simply cannot wait until this 'down into the abyss' loosening of standards finally bottoms out and we start back up on the long road to propriety.

At some point dignity and pride will start to kick in, won't they? Or are we destined to be mired in the muck of sloth and apathy forever, taking everything down to its blandest basest bottom?

Sit up straight class!


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:53 PM
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In Welsh it's "stationary". One of the ways you can tell.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:57 PM
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stashunry


Posted by: abyss lookin back at ya | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:58 PM
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91 is odd


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:58 PM
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what drives a man to get a Mont Blanc fountain pen in particular?

Becoming a man in the first place. I.e. having a bar mitzvah.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:59 PM
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I'm not sure whether the following is agreeing with parsimon's hair-talk or not, but:

Seems to me that, socialization aside, shorter hair on older/married women is a matter of convenience as much as anything - I've been party to countless discussions that went along the lines of "I'd just like to cut it short and not deal with it." Arguably, the longer you live with long hair, the more attractive short hair seems.

IOW, what I suspect is that the socialization aspect is that women should ever wear long hair, not that matrons should cut it short. I can't help but note that, after the long hair rebellion of the 60s, we're pretty much back to men wearing short hair, with more leeway on the longer side than there used to be (and, certainly, some men going flat-out long). I never had long hair as such, but once I started cutting it quite short (not "buzzed," but close), I felt that I'd been foolish to have it longer so many years.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 2:59 PM
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126: When I first saw "boup siscuit" in the sidebar, I thought that you were making some super secret personal revelation that you didn't want to be easily google-able---even pseudonymously, soup.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:00 PM
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123: actually we had two stationery cupboards and one of them was on wheels.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:00 PM
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I like playing with my hair, and the longer it is the more I like playing with it.

I'll have lots of sensory gratification from touching my head.

Geez, we aren't supposed to talk about that part, togolosh. But of course.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:01 PM
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I felt that I'd been foolish to have it longer so many years.

You mean from a maintenance point of view? Short and long are both easy, it's the middle that involves work.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:01 PM
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128: My Dad's always dressed fairly conservatively, but his 70's short haircut was awfully long.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:02 PM
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But Will, I am a proficient swimmer and unfashionable. If learning to swim made me more fashionable, it happened at a very early age and the increment wasn't large.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:03 PM
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129: But who'd want to call me out on that but avoid their pseud?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:03 PM
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Megan, you are fashionable because you swim. Your clothes do not matter.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:07 PM
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Will is projecting, desperately, Megan. Don't let him down hard.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:08 PM
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In Welsh it's "stationary". One of the ways you can tell.

Even if that is true the frigging Welsh use the frigging "w" as a frigging vowel (see cwm, a very cool word to use in Scrabble) so WTF do they know?

And now I suppose the Welsh are gonna join the Scottish and Irish coming down on my butt because of my red-hair comment last week.

Well bring it on.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:08 PM
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Even if that is true the frigging Welsh use the frigging "w" as a frigging vowel (see cwm, a very cool word to use in Scrabble) so WTF do they know?

In English the word is "Ootf".

By posting as "boup siscuit" I was light-heartedly invoking soup biscuit's compulsion to dispute all generalizations, as cited in 40.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:10 PM
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IOW, what I suspect is that the socialization aspect is that women should ever wear long hair, not that matrons should cut it short.

I think that's right. Hair is long to be feminine and attractive. If you're already hitched, says the conventional wisdom, what're you doing trying to look hot?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:11 PM
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Oh sure, from a maintenance point of view, shorter hair is probably easier. But I think you have to wash it pretty often. Which, okay.

A trade-off, really. Longer hair takes longer to wash and dry, but can also go longer without it. Our society is pretty cleanliness oriented, so the idea of not washing your hair for 2 or 3 days is offensive to many. In the event I felt I had to wash my hair every day (I used to), I'd probably chop off a foot.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:12 PM
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I like having shorter hair because day to day maintenance is easier, but having long hair made it easier to skip getting it trimmed.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:13 PM
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Huh. I think longer hair is so much easier to maintain. I only cut it every couple of months, wash it every few days, and in the mornings, comb it and clip it back and go. It needs no product and no blow-drying. I actually prefer having short hair, but balk at all the work it would require -- frequenter haircuts, styling product, fighting against cowlicks, etc.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:17 PM
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||

New Pirates acquisition is, um, pitching very well* against the D-Backs right now. And the Bucs have driven Randy Johnson from the game. Top of the 8th.

|>

* Jinx-proofing


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:20 PM
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You mean from a maintenance point of view? Short and long are both easy, it's the middle that involves work.

No, from a comfort (and, frankly, looks) POV.

Can someone explain to me why long hair doesn't need cleaning as often as short? Surely he nesting birds make a mess?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:22 PM
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In the event I felt I had to wash my hair every day (I used to), I'd probably chop off a foot.

That's kind of drastic, parsimon. Perhaps it would be more prudent to cut off 12 inches of hair.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:22 PM
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Short enough hair and you never really need to wash it with `products' or do anything else. Socially this is typically much more workable for men than women.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:23 PM
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---


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:24 PM
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what drives a man to get a Mont Blanc fountain pen in particular? Becoming a man in the first place. i.e. having a bar mitzvah FTM gender reassignment surgery. The fountain pen is a convenient attrappe to insert in the front of the trousers to simulate an erection.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:25 PM
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No, from a comfort (and, frankly, looks) POV.

well, the latter is subjective and and the former varies person to person.. But I also don't know what you mean by `long', I guess.

I guess I'm using short to mean short enough that you do nothing with it and long to mean long enough to easily tie back. I suppose my definition of `medium length' starts at what most women would call `short'


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:26 PM
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zadfrack doesn't understand how much parsimon hates shampooing.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:26 PM
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DAMMIT.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:29 PM
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146: Low-hanging fruit, zadfrack.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:29 PM
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B never mentioned the having sex with bears part. I don't think that she's as polyamorous as she lets on.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:37 PM
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Wrong thread.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:38 PM
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My hair stays naturally short. Except the ear hair, of course.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:40 PM
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2 hit complete game shutout, from a guy who was 4-5 for his career before coming to the Pirates. Not bad.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:50 PM
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Can someone explain to me why long hair doesn't need cleaning as often as short? Surely he nesting birds make a mess?

Well. Ahem. Maybe a little. At least, long hair usually looks better freshly washed than not; but it takes me nearly an hour to wash and dry my hair, and I'm not going to do that every day. Here togolosh's reference to the aesthetic pleasures of long hair kicks in. It's a sensual thing, OKAY?

Long hair (we're talking a foot below my shoulder blades) doesn't have to be washed as often because the oils are distributed. The few times my hair has been shoulder-length, I can't get away without washing it every day, and it's probably going to look stupid without either an expensive haircut or product or various kinds of styling attention. So it's a trade-off, as I say.

I've wound up preferring the utterly low-maintenance longer hair, since I have haircut phobia, and since a near-buzzcut is not only not much of an option in our society, but I have pretty cool curly hair, and it would be weird to me indeed to deprive myself of it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 3:50 PM
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Shoulder length = you have to wash it every day? For real? Gosh, what a pain. My hair would have to be about half an inch long to even put up with being washed so frequently.

I have been having a serious attack this week of wishing for curly hair. It seems like a ripoff to have hair that grows ever outward without the panache of wild curls to make it all worthwhile.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:09 PM
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I'm getting a haircut next week, not because of encroaching age, but because it's too damn hot to have long hair right now. I can't wait.

Why doesn't she put it up, you ask? Because she managed an act of self-mutilation* this weekend and has only one hand that's of any use until the splint comes off/stitches come out. The Biophysicist, despite having a daughter, has never put anyone's hair into a braid or a ponytail and does not do a very good job of it.

IME, no one buys a Mont Blanc for themselves. It's definitely one of those gift pens. They don't work well for left-handers, as I discovered when my sister gave me one. I gave it to the Biophysicist.

Any idea what kind of glue is on your dress, H-G? Or what the fabric is? I may have some hints.

*The doctor at the ER, who was 12, actually asked me if I had done this on purpose. Yeah, sure, I spend my Sunday afternoons playing chicken with a chef's knife. Will it hit the potato? Or will it take off half my thumb? Text your vote to 788743.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:13 PM
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I have pretty cool curly hair, and it would be weird to me indeed to deprive myself of it.

AB and another very good friend both have curly hair, and it looks cute short(ish). But I understand the aesthetics of the matter.

Also, I suspected that oil distribution had something to do with long hair and shampooing. Thanks.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:25 PM
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hmm, I find it is actively bad for my shoulder-length, or slightly longer than shoulder-length, hair to be washed every day. Dries it out. Your scalp also adjusts its oil production depending on your washing habits. I just made the transition from washing it every other day to every 2, and lots of happy savings on the time, $$ of product, healthiness of hair.

DominEditrix, such a funny comment. hope your hand heals soon. it is also great when you come in to the ER with a head wound and they ask you for protocol reasons if you were trying to kill yourself. yes, my preferred method is banging a great big hole into my head. efficiency is number one with me.


Posted by: mmf! | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:26 PM
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159: Shoulder length = you have to wash it every day? For real? Gosh, what a pain.

Heh, sometimes during periods of extreme crunch, it's really more like twice a day, because after working for twelve hours (especially since my hair is usually constrained under a kerchief or headband), it gets so greasy it's really unpleasant to sleep or relax with.

Luckily, I've always been highly baffled at people who find washing their hair onerous, because I personally think immersion in water + hair-washing are the best things ever, and I would pretty much live in the shower if I could. So for me, it's more like an awesome bonus.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:28 PM
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159: rfts, for some reason I pictured you as a curly-haired person. Probably your pseud. Consolation: curly hair cut short (shoulder-length or less) can easily go nuts and be ... not desired. Corkscrews around your forehead, you want that? I didn't think so.

DominEditrix speaks truth, man: long hair is hot. This is the one reason I'd do it. Cut it off. Good luck with recovery from the self-mutilation.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:29 PM
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The doctor at the ER, who was 12....

One year at my job they brought a group of entering med students through on tour, and I actually thought they were 16 year olds on a Career Day field trip.

Curly hair: My sister has curly-kinky hair and has hated it all her life. I like mine fine. It doesn't need to be cut carefully.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:30 PM
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164: rfts, for some reason I pictured you as a curly-haired person.

Yeah, me too. Huh.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:30 PM
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mmf!

I don't wash my hair every day or every other day, more like every third, if I'm being good. Sometimes, not even that much. I usually do it at night and then air dry it. In the morning I straighten it with an iron. Lately it's been dryish, but I think that that's frizz from the humidity. I suppose that I should get a round brush and try to blow it dry to save some time, but I've never managed to use a blow dryer with a paddle brush without making my hair turn to straw.

Lately, I haven't had as much success getting it to stay straight, but that's the weather. Even after I got my hair cut and professionally dried, I got a bit of unwanted volume later in the day.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:33 PM
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My hair stopped growing about six inches past my t-shirt collar. I can't remember my last haircut, a decade?

This year I decided to let my sand-grey-white beard grow free, and it currently reaches the top of my collar.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:34 PM
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168: My hair stopped growing about six inches past my t-shirt collar

What actually happens is that your individual hairs stop growing and fall out after a certain length of time and that coupled with the rate of growth determines the maximum length if you do not cut it. About 90% of your hair is growing at any given time (anagen phase), the rest is at "terminal" length, basically waiting to fall/be pushed out by the next one coming out of the follicle. Most folks average 4-5 years growth time, so your hair will not get any longer after that amount of time.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:54 PM
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Bob, you're not masturbating enough. You need to work to get good hair.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:56 PM
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If I don't wash my hair every day my face breaks out.

My hair used to be waist-length and perfectly straight, but I haven't had it that long in some time. (It was always getting rolled up in car windows, and it didn't look "professional.") I'm growing it out again now, but it's getting to the nasty shoulder-length stage where it still doesn't weigh enough to pull itself straight but is too long to style with any bounce. At a certain point I'll have to shower at night and let my hair dry when I'm sleeping, but that's still a year off.


Posted by: Amber | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 4:59 PM
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But Amber, waist-length on you is not really long.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:00 PM
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Mmf! is totally right; if you stop washing your hair for a week or so, it ends up surprisingly non-greasy.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:01 PM
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Corkscrews around your forehead, you want that? I didn't think so.

Whyever no? Corkscrews are darling. Instead I have heavy masses of bushy wave-lumps. I'm happy to learn that my internet persona is curly, though.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:04 PM
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True. I pity tall women who want long hair.


Posted by: Amber | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:04 PM
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Any idea what kind of glue is on your dress, H-G? Or what the fabric is? I may have some hints.

The fabric is polyester, and I think the glue is probably Elmers, since it's got a lot of blue glitter in it. I suspect it's old and has been washed and dried because the fabric is starting to tear around it.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:04 PM
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"Whyever not," I mean. I wasn't trying to be quite as twee as all that--"whyever not" is perfectly twee enough.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:05 PM
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but it's getting to the nasty shoulder-length stage where it still doesn't weigh enough to pull itself straight but is too long to style with any bounce.

Vicious over-conditioning, combined with combing it aggressively straight out of the shower, is how I've always dealt with this. Kind of a brute force solution, and part of why I'm now much better about keeping mine trimmed to chin-length, but it really, really works.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:05 PM
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I do the aggressive combing thing, but it's the ends that flip out in weird directions, and they rebel. More conditioner, perhaps.

The ridiculous part of the whole growing out thing is that I am completely inept at styling hair, so once it's long enough to braid or pull into intricate knots, I'll just end up shoving it into an alligator clip or a half-assed bun with a scrunchy.


Posted by: Amber | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:08 PM
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There's a lot to be said for letting hair grow natural for awhile and then start washing it less and conditioning it minimally. Once you start the intensive agriculture with heavy use of pesticides, fertilizer, and herbicides, it's hard to go back.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:16 PM
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By the way, I do connect male hair/beard styles and other fashions directly to politics. The 16th, 17th and late (18th to early 20th) centuries were, if not liberal, at least experimental political eras. As, of course, was 1965-75. It matters a lot if you willingly wear the uniform. Along those lines, most of the 20th century was placidly authoritarian.

I feel surrounded by Romans. Solid citizens who think progressivism means a more efficent Empire.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:18 PM
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Oh God, bob's comment made me laugh.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:20 PM
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I actually prefer having short hair, but balk at all the work it would require -- frequenter haircuts, styling product, fighting against cowlicks, etc.

See, for me, the hair requires styling products no matter what, but requires much less of them at shorter lengths. I get the whole corkscrews-around-the-forehead bit, but with a good cut, it's really cute. (The real danger with short hair and curly hair is that it turns into a triangle shape.)

I rinse out my hair with conditioner everyday and use a really mild no-suds shampoo that's basically a glorified conditioner. Regular shampoo brings the frizz.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:21 PM
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Corkscrews are darling.

I beg to differ. Corkscrews do not comport well with an aquiline nose. [Uh. Don't even say it.]

169: Most folks average 4-5 years growth time, so your hair will not get any longer after that amount of time.

So what you're saying is that I should get my damn hair cut.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:22 PM
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179: I am completely inept at styling hair

This is why I'm overjoyed to be somewhere that wearing a bandana isn't seen as "unprofessional" - it's impossible to fuck up! Plus, it's been a great excuse to acquire a ridiculous collection of vintage scarves.

It would be great if slightly fancier versions became more acceptable in conventional workplaces. Some of the places I get my scarves from are primarily retailers of abayas/hijabs, and most of their stock is this very high-quality, attractive, serious stuff that's designed to go well with business casual-and-up. The way in which scarves are so very, very coded for non-Muslim women is incredibly lame.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:32 PM
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183: What do you use Cala? I've been using any shampoo with Kiehls Intensive Conditioner, sometimes Head and Shoulder's Intensive (the blue selenium one). I bought some Lush enzyme stuff for the occasional degunking and managed to lose it. I like Aveda Sap Moss Shampoo and Conditioner.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:35 PM
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181: beards are in, Bob.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:38 PM
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I'm gathering that frizz is considered very bad, and I don't have much of that (I don't think) as I've gotten older: older means your hair gets straighter. So, whew! Less frizz worries. I wash my hair less often. The natural straightening sometimes saddens me.

The pictures I've seen of BostonianGirl don't show someone who would need to iron her hair, but who can tell. I will say that I fought my hair fretfully for a long time, curling irons and so on, attempts to straighten it, until I finally laughed at the concerns and worked with it rather than against it. YMMV.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:42 PM
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2 hit complete game shutout, from a guy who was 4-5 for his career before coming to the Pirates. Not bad.

Why oh why do you insist on using W-L records to evaluate pitchers, JRoth?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:43 PM
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There's a lot to be said for letting hair grow natural for awhile and then start washing it less and conditioning it minimally. Once you start the intensive agriculture with heavy use of pesticides, fertilizer, and herbicides, it's hard to go back.

My sister didn't believe me either when I said that, but when someone else told her the same thing and she followed my advice, it worked.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:45 PM
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189: he's trying to keep firejoemorgan funny, is all.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:48 PM
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(precision vs. boldness)

An eternal conflict, and not just regarding pens.

I used a pretty sweet disposable fountain pen in Germany, but I lost it before I even left. I wonder if the conversation's moved on now.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:48 PM
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When I had long hair, let me tell you, I did not do a good job taking care of it.

Lo and behold: it looked stupid!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:49 PM
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187:Right. How many Senators, Congressmen, Supreme Court members have beards? How many CEO's? How does this compare to say, 1880?

Perhaps bg was amused by the "placidly authoritarian" 20th century. Sorry, the difference between Lenin & Kerensky, SPDs and Nazis, Hoover & FDR was about which dictator would better put the two chickens in every pot. Huge difference between Haywood/Debs & Reuther.

I am not even sure decolonization wasn't simply about changing Leaders.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:53 PM
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Looks as if it has.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:55 PM
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I think bob's right about hair. Ideologically, I believe in letting your freak flag fly, but me and people both like me better with short hair.

Clean for Gene!


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 5:59 PM
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194: Sorry, the difference between Lenin & Kerensky, SPDs and Nazis, Hoover & FDR was about which dictator would better put the two chickens in every pot.

Well, that and how the chickens would relate to each other.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:03 PM
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I know that ironing one's hair is actually carried out by a different method from ironing one's shirt (say), but I still always picture, for a moment, someone leaning over an ironing board, hair laid out thereon, moving a hot iron over her hair, trying to prevent it from nearing her scalp too much (naturally, owing the the posture the maneuver requires, one cannot actually see the iron).


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:03 PM
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There was a threshold around 1910-1920 when short hair became fashionable. Before that time famous men cultivated bushy hair and various sorts of beards. Max Weber and Ludwig Wittgenstein are striking examples.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:03 PM
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My sister actually did iron her hair with a laundry iron. Quicker and easier than curlers, I think.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:04 PM
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I had shoulder-length hair for much of HS. I almost always kept it in a pony tail. I chopped it and went back to a less transgressive look after my first quarter of college. Shortly after I returned to college, there was a dining hall conversation in which several of my floormates revealed that they had found the long-haired me "intimidating."


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:06 PM
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One irons one's hair, I assume, in order to avoid appearing too exotic.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:08 PM
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Interestingly, I was most intimidating when I shaved my head. Go figure!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:09 PM
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Sorry. Just reading about early Manet and 1860s France, and Napoleon Bonaparte with his wax- tipped moustache of course plays an important role.

It wasn't that foreign a time. They had railroads and printing presses. Yet that dwarf grabbed a nation in between revolutions & mistresses.

Now I remember! I watched Nathalie last night with Ardant & Beart. Almost entirely a conversation between two women, unfortunately mostly about a man.

I kinda love France.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:10 PM
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One irons one's hair, I assume, in order to avoid appearing too exotic.

Sometimes, but sometimes one does it simply to avoid appearing too mushroom-dorky and cowlicky.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:10 PM
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Herbert Hoover translated De Re Metallica with his wife. FACT.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:10 PM
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There was a threshold around 1910-1920 when short hair became fashionable. Before that time famous men cultivated bushy hair and various sorts of beards. Max Weber and Ludwig Wittgenstein are striking examples.

Max Weber actually had close-cropped hair and a neatly trimmed beard. You might be thinking of Karl Marx. Or McManus.

Sorry, the difference between Lenin & Kerensky, SPDs and Nazis, Hoover & FDR was about which dictator would better put the two chickens in every pot.

I keep going back and forth on whether Bob is crazed or ignorant. When I read that sentence I suddenly realized, "I don't have to choose!"


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:11 PM
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I keep going back and forth on whether Bob is crazed or ignorant. When I read that sentence I suddenly realized, "I don't have to choose!"

Somehow, the two combine to make awesomely hilarious!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:13 PM
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199:IIRC, the American Founders were all clean-shaven, even Franklin. Checked out The Nightwatch, and while the goatee is strongly in fashion, it is not completely dominant.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:14 PM
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Lars Ulrich's Grandfather on his mother's side was Herbert Hoover. LIE.


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:15 PM
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I don't iron my hair, as is I suppose obvious.

Instead, I steel my hair. When I'm old, I'll have it blued.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:15 PM
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Max Weber was one of the short-haired ones. My time frame isn't quit right.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:16 PM
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I wish Bob would quit the performance art.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:16 PM
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Speaking of shampoo, I have recently started using the Uncle Harry's and would recommend it.

It doesn't feel quite as soothing to my scalp as some Tea Tree shampoos but my overall impression is quite positive.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:17 PM
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I wish Bob would quit the performance art.

I bet he isn't even nekkid. (That's "en d├ęshabille" for you smartypants.)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:18 PM
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186: BG, I use Devacurl No-Poo. You only need a small amount since you use it mostly at your roots, and it smells very nice.

I know that ironing one's hair is actually carried out by a different method from ironing one's shirt

It didn't used to be. My mom knew girls in the seventies who would iron their hair. My sister uses one of those flatirons now, and then complains that her hair is damaged. But will she set it loose in all its wavy glory? No.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:18 PM
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205: Oh. Okay. Prevailing customs regarding hair sort of suck, I've noticed.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:19 PM
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No-Poo

Seriously? That's so fucking great.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:21 PM
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215: look, not every performance artist can stick a yam up their ass, and even if they could, it'll never be as exciting as the first time.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:21 PM
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203: Is the shaved head the ballsiest hair styling move a man (or even a human, perhaps?) can make? If not, I think it has to come close.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:25 PM
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220: Where do you live? In Los Angeles it is the default mode for men past a certain point of baldness. I am probably four years away, judging by my rate of thinning. (I have gone bic'ed in my youth as well.)


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:27 PM
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220: I dunno. I was pretty drunk when I decided it was a good idea.

Thinking about it, no. It's a pretty ballsy move for a woman. For a man? Eh.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:27 PM
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It's been a stereotype thug look for years.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:28 PM
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222: The yam thing was ballsy, though, Sifu. Probably what won her heart.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:29 PM
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As to women of a certain age and long hair- Miss Manners may have been describing a convention, but my grandmother, born 1900, never had her hair cut, and always wore it up. When staying with her in the summer, it was always a shock to see her at breakfast with her hair down, quite long and lovely. I suppose that is where the expression "letting your hair down" for being in a relaxed mode came in.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:29 PM
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My third year in college one of my dormmates shaved her head (and then won a halloweed costume contest—as Gandhi—in part because people thought the shaving was for the contest, when actually it wasn't).

Anyway, it was hot.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:30 PM
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224: past a certain size of yam, the balls become involved almost by default.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:30 PM
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huhuh, Halloweed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:31 PM
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220: SF. I suppose age is an important factor to consider. Sifu's comment reminded me of a kid in college who completely shaved his head for fraternity pledging purposes and looked scary as shit. Even those of us who were friendship- or acquaintanceship-bound to be nice to him had trouble not visibly recoiling upon our first few post-shaving encounters with him.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:31 PM
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"Halloweed" is intentional—only widows were allowed to participate.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:32 PM
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I don't see a cooked yam thing as being much of anything, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:34 PM
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229: when I opted to shave my head (this was during college, take 1) I was also given to wearing army pants, combat boots, a kung fu jacket, and a black trenchcoat (I know I've told this story before). I imagine the overall look was quite terrifying, in a columbine-before-columbine kind of way.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:34 PM
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And I suppose my characterization of the move as "ballsy" stems from the commitment inherent in the decision. It takes a long time to grow back if it goes awry. But I suppose that's a trivial observation.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:36 PM
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It does take a long time to grow back, but it doesn't take very long to look "normal", relatively.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:38 PM
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Yams, though.

KF: A lot of people think I was doing something that I didn't do. But maybe that's just as important. In fact, it's actually become some kind of a myth. The myth is that I actually took an uncooked yam and stuck it up my anus, which I never did.

In reality, I was talking about a series of stories about abuse. This was during the '80s. I was dealing with the idea of being fucked over, being fucked. Using the metaphors of abuse of power.
It was a drug-oriented time so this was about a grandmother who was abused by her grandson at Thanksgiving during a drug frenzy. He takes the yams and smears it on her buttocks. I saw "Boogie Nights" last night and it could have been a scene in the movie. Like when they go over to try to do that crack deal and bring over the cocaine and there's a man who is smoking crack, except his grandmother's in the back room and it's Thanksgiving and he just flips out. I was dealing with the fact that a man could abuse his grandmother, the matriarch, but this energy could never be discussed. I immediately became sexualized. They had to make me out to be a pervert, deviant, a wild animal, which is how women's sexuality is seen. In reality I embodied this psychological fear of women's sexuality that's projected onto all women. That's what the myth is about.

Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:40 PM
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The Uniball 0.5mm micro is god's own pen.

For many a year, I believed the same, W-lfs-n. Oh, how I protected those pens. And then I was introduced to the common Pilot BP-S Fine. It goes to eleven.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:40 PM
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In most Google responses (except for the ones where he's a young soldier), Max Weber looks exact like Adolf Hitler would look with a large beard.

That is to say, his hair was not long.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:43 PM
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I am currently somewhat besotted by the Pilot Hi-Tec-C pens. They come in fine (0.5), finer (0.4), and finest (0.3), write very smoothly even at 0.3, and even have build-your-own three-color pen arrangements with a vast array of color options.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:45 PM
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225: I'm apparently subscribing to this model of female behavior with regard to hair. It's up most of the time during the day, and people are surprised at how I look when it's down.

I think I've been fussing about it in this thread because I feel I should take a shot at the short hair one time, before I let it grow out again as I wish it to be. I knew a man a year or so ago who explained with a shrug that he'd never let his hair grow longer than an inch and a half or so. Ever, since he was a child. I was a little stunned.

I thought, Hey, you should live a little, maybe. Is that rude, or ... something?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:46 PM
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And I suppose my characterization of the move as "ballsy" stems from the commitment inherent in the decision. It takes a long time to grow back if it goes awry.

Depends on how much hair you have to begin with. Since I started going bald, I've gone back and forth between close-cropped hair (usually less than a quarter of an inch) and shaved head. It doesn't take more than a couple of weeks after I've clippered or shaved to start looking shaggy.

But even when I first shaved my head, I don't think anyone would have described me as "intimidating".


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:50 PM
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IIRC, the American Founders were all clean-shaven, even Franklin.

They also all had rosy cheeks.

Further from that site, I do see a couple with sideburns. John Adams (other portraits reinforce this), and a young guy (second from the left among standing people) who I believe is Samuel Chase.

Most (?) of them are wearing wigs so it's hard to tell. But no beards or moustaches.

Stephen Hopkins of Rhode Island is the only one in a hat. Fashion-forward, or retrograde?


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:55 PM
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226 - A shaved head is about the sexiest possible look on a woman, IMHO. I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something about it I find disturbingly erotic.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:56 PM
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239: people are surprised at how I look when [my hair is] down.

PGD, for one.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 6:59 PM
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226: Anyway, it was hot.

That probably explains it, you do stay cooler without any hair on your head.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:01 PM
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Comma splices help too.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:04 PM
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Pennnnns: http://www.jetpens.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=coleto&x=0&y=0


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:04 PM
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Comma splices help, too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:07 PM
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You grammar nazis disgust me. Don't you have anything better to do with yourselves?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:10 PM
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I would update my secret blog, but it's secret.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:11 PM
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Are you saying that too isn't helped by comma splices, Tweety?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:13 PM
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Comma splices help, America.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:16 PM
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245: Comma splices help too.

So I hear, I wouldn't know for sure.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:18 PM
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Japanese gel rollerball pens still rule.


Posted by: Phil Agre | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:25 PM
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BTW, all of my grammar mistakes, typos, homophone and other misspellings, poor word choices and unclear ideas are part of a subtle but totally immersive lifetime performance art project.

</mcmanus>


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:26 PM
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A common misapprehension, Phil. In fact, gel pens suck.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:29 PM
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In fact, gel pens suck.

Most, but not all.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:31 PM
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Enough.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:41 PM
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Will no one follow up my comment about Founding Fathers' facial hair?

This page shows a surprising level of uncertainty over whether various of them had sideburns, or if their sideburns were part of their wigs.

It's hard to imagine John Adams's being anything other than sideburns in the Trumbull painting, though.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:46 PM
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For a while, I thought of 257 as being Ben's encomium for a ceasing of all comments, forever. Enough, he said, and waving his hand, there was no more.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:50 PM
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Whiskers seem to have come into fashion sometimes after 1850, and to have gone out sometime after 1890 (note correction of my earlier "1910"). There's a book out there explaining all this.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:53 PM
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Gel pens. I'm not sure what they are. They sound awful, though, and the pics turned up appear to have those disgusting fat barrels meant for ham-fisted Junkers.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 7:58 PM
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Shall I get off your lawn?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:03 PM
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All it means is pens where the ink is a gel instead of a liquid or that gloopy ballpoint stuff. Surely you have encountered them. I believe the Uniball micro that is my usual everyday pen is, in fact, a gel pen.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:07 PM
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The trouble with non-gel rollerball ink is that it is more likely to seep through your paper and also more likely to splot. The trouble with gel ink is that it is less silky smooth, and more likely to skip. The trouble with ballpoint ink is that it is horrid.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:08 PM
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259: encomium

Encyclical? Surely Ben came to decree "a ceasing of all comments", not to praise it.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:10 PM
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265: I imagine it rather joyous. "At long last, we have enough!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:11 PM
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I imagine it rather joyous. "At long last, we have enough no sense of decency!"


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:23 PM
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I imagine it rather joyous. "At long last, we have enough no sense of decencybananas!"


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:27 PM
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Actually, I rather joyous.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:28 PM
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Today!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:28 PM
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264: Life ... is suffering.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:31 PM
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You're a miserable excuse for an aesthete, soup.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:33 PM
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What, you don't suffer from poor inks?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:34 PM
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Of course not—I take steps to ensure that I only write with good inks.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:36 PM
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You're a miserable excuse for an aesthete, soup.

Itself a remarkable and laudable experience.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:37 PM
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I would like to take this opportunity to note that I enjoy caper berries. I am also willing to tolerate capers in the sense of high jinks.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:38 PM
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274: Ben is a joyous excuse for an aesthete.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:39 PM
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It didn't used to be. My mom knew girls in the seventies who would iron their hair.

And speaking of hair care and what used to be ...

Used to be, olive oil was more likely to be found at the drugstore than at the grocery store, because its primary use was as a "hair tonic." Notable exceptions: various ethnic neighbourhoods where people knew that olive oil was also, if not mostly, meant for cooking. Then the foodies came long, urging and exhorting the use of olive oil in cookery to all and sundry, and the rest, of course, is history ...


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:50 PM
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Yeah to be completely honest I'm tired of slicking my hair back with Crisco, but hey, these are the times we live in.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:52 PM
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Of course not--I take steps to ensure that I only write with good inks.

But according to 264 that's un-possible. One of you is wrong. Probably both.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:53 PM
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278: True, but at least you can get decent cooking oil all over now. Those bloody foodies and their improving peoples lives. Who asked them.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:54 PM
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Not that I wouldn't love to talk about cool pens or gorgeous shaved/buzzed haircuts, but back to the original article Heebie linked:

While the black students didn't look like they fell out of a J. Crew catalog, even at breakfast the black students tended to be more pulled together than their white compatriots so it was clear they weren't the hired help. We disassociated ourselves from anything that would make white students forget we were there to labor with our minds not our bodies.

Nothing insightful to say, just wanted to lift it up for you all.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:57 PM
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High quality ink of either the gel or the liquid variety, in combination with the appropriate pen case and paper, can be satisfactory. All types, however, have their pitfalls.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 8:57 PM
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As David Markson writes:

Unlike most Italians, Joe DiMaggio never reeks of garlic.
Life magazine matter-of-factly took note of in 1939.

Note to add that he keeps his hair slick with water instead of olive oil or smelly bear grease—unquote, additionally.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:03 PM
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280: I use a fountain pen or a dip pen exclusively.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:03 PM
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For gel pens, it's Gelly Roll pens or nothing. Other brands are merely pretenders to the throne.

They have no pitfalls other than that one is forced to choose: colored, metallic, glitter?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:04 PM
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I write in blood, with nails, on leather.

Or type, on my mac.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:05 PM
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Kindly emend 284's "Note" to "Not". Thank you.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:05 PM
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L.M. Montgomery had the definitive word on pen preferences:

I have a scratchy pen and I can't write love-letters with a scratchy pen . . . or a sharp pen . . . or a stub pen. So you'll only get that kind of letter from me when I have exactly the right kind of pen.

Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:05 PM
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Yeah to be completely honest I'm tired of slicking my hair back with Crisco, but hey, these are the times we live in.

Myself, I only use Tenderflake Lard, because it was once endorsed by Madame Benoit. But this is an age of hair care product decline and decadence, to be sure.

(And actually, I'm quite serious about my admiration for Mme. Benoit).


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:08 PM
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282: Neither front-page post nor linked article nor comment nor quoted excerpt stays these commenters from the swift discussion of the minutiae of their lives.

289: OK, never mind.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:09 PM
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282: If only you'd been here earlier, when LB and I were trying to have a substantive conversation. We could try to guess what pen fatshionista Julia chooses; perhaps she's partial to the astronaut pen.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:11 PM
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292: oh, like I didn't try and guess.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:15 PM
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We had a substantive conversation! Just not about the post.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:19 PM
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We had a substantive conversation!

Yeah, sure. On Sifu's secret blog.

289 is wonderful.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:26 PM
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We had a substantive conversation!
Yeah, sure. On Sifu's secret blog.

Sadly, not yet.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:27 PM
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Pilot G-2. Ugly & smooth.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:33 PM
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Why oh why do you insist on using W-L records to evaluate pitchers, JRoth?

What a memory. I know that you were being a little bitch, but...

His career ERA was ~4.5, but I would've had to look it up. The more neutralized ERA+ would've required yet further research. The point that this guy was not on the short list of likely perfect game candidates was adequately communicated by his mediocre record. Compiled for the Yankees, I might add. As a starter. A Yankees starter with a losing record is, prima facie, not an ace type.

Karstens' ERA for the Bucs is 0.00 after 15 innings. I'm not sure what that adjusts to, but I like to think it speaks for itself.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:39 PM
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Oh JRoth you don't have to try to justify it. We understand.

By "we", obviously, I mean "some poor innumerate bastard".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:41 PM
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So my pen preference is now from memory, not daily experience. It's been a long time since I covered pages with calculations, or wrote even paragraphs of rough draft longhand. Mostly now I scrawl notes to self on printed documents, or fill out forms for local bureaucracies-- anything bigger takes machine input. How many longhand pages in a typical week, summing everything, grocery lists, personal correspondence, professional stuff? 2 for me is a blistering week.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:45 PM
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In Los Angeles it is the default mode for men past a certain point of baldness.

I assumed that had gone out of fashion years ago, based primarily on the fact that it was first done in Pgh 15 years ago and is fading even here. WTF - Is LA now behind Pittsburgh on men's hair styles?

The mullet is coming, Wrongshore!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:47 PM
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Are you a Recessionista?

Oh please, don't even ask me how I got on the eBags emailing list in the first place, but anyway, they sent me an email earlier today where they provided the following no doubt quite useful working definition: "recessionista n.: A woman who dresses stylishly on a tight budget." Well, who knew? And further: "Stay trendy (but less spendy) with our Summer Handbag Sale." Trendy, but less spendy. A motto, and a motif, for this our fallen age.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:47 PM
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Oh please, don't even ask me how I got on the eBags emailing list in the first place

A forum for women who are not ashamed of being old bags! Inspiring, but clearly you do not belong.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:57 PM
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301: it is kind of back, and, more ominously, it is back among balding men because of the dearth of good options.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 9:58 PM
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Dude, I go to school and this is what I miss.

1) I pulled a Felicity and ended up with The Rachel, circa 1995. I am now trying desperately to grow back my long, luscious, Lucy Liu locks. Damn Lucy Liu though.

2) I like short hair on men but can't say if this preference is just a preference or stemming from some heteronormative/establishment value. I will go into therapy and inquire.

3) Mutton chops are always a bad idea though.

4) W-lfs-n, do you use colored inks or only black/blue? I think I saw a line from Italy that intrigued me on some pen website, but I am also one to blow chunks of change on letterpress cards.

5) Re the original article, it's so true, and even w/r/t other races. It's most pronounced in the older generation. You can never say my parents are not put together outside the home--they dress up to go to the market, the doctor, everything. They tried to impress that upon me at an early age, too. Something about showing yourself respect to get respect.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:00 PM
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Blue is a color.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:02 PM
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We should accept black as a color as well, since otherwise we'd have to reject such endoxa as the one which holds that black is the color of my true love's hair.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:04 PM
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Oh, and why Lucy Liu sucks.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:05 PM
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They're right, this is cool.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:08 PM
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Used to be, olive oil was more likely to be found at the drugstore than at the grocery store, because its primary use was as a "hair tonic."

My hairdresser still recommends using olive oil as a deep conditioning treatment. Massage oil into hair, wrap hair in t-shirt, cover pillowcase with t-shirt, go to sleep, wash out in the morning. It works surprisingly well.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:10 PM
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310: I've known some women who swear by coconut oil used the same way. All of them have asian or south indian family roots though, not sure how much hair type & thickness plays into that.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:14 PM
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311 is not actually true.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:15 PM
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312 is nonsense


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:16 PM
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back among balding men because of the dearth of good options.

I once had a straight discussion with my (Sicilian immigrant) barber on this discussion. He simply told me that the only thing a bald guy can do is to keep it short and neat. That is, of course, self-serving advice, but I think it's true. I always look best within the first 4-6 days of a haircut.

Also, on AB's advice I grew sideburns, partly to maintain the same total amount of hair on my head, but mostly because my whiskers come in a really nice auburn, whereas my hair usually looks brown (although the sideburns bring out the auburn, so win-win).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:22 PM
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Massage oil into hair, wrap hair in t-shirt, cover pillowcase with t-shirt, go to sleep, wash out in the morning. It works surprisingly well.

See, my hair is naturally at the grease-pit end of the spectrum, so these oil-based solutions would never work for me . I'm looking for something more acidic and astringent, I guess. Like lemon juice, or vinegar (our mother used to rinse out our hair in vinegar to 'make it shine').

Also: my son, a couple of weeks ago: 'My [stuffed animal who stands in place of me, and whom I often cite to ventriloquize my own desires and preferences] thinks you're pretty, but he doesn't like freckles, and he thinks maybe there's a cream that would smooth out your skin?" What the bloody hell!? Like I wasn't in labour 26 hours or so to give birth to this child, and now he wants me to use freckle juice? Jesus.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 10:39 PM
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315: Children are cruel mirrors. My six year old niece, whom I helped raise, always points out my increasing amount of white hair and tells me that I look old. You'd think that white strands in black hair would look Rogue-ish. You would be wrong.

I kind of love that honesty from kids though. It makes their unconditional love kind of real.

I have greasy hair too. Even though I'm Asian, my hair is fine and silky (stylists say that it's like blond hair, wtf) and must be washed every freaking day, no matter what length. One of the reasons I dislike camping, even though I like camping. I like Aveda's Rosemary-Mint shampoo. Very refreshing, and somewhat astringent.


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 08- 6-08 11:01 PM
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Per Heebie's original post, what the fuck!

Farnsworth Bentley. Sigh. I always liked Aaron Magruder's take on P. Diddy's "valet."


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 12:39 AM
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Stephen Hopkins of Rhode Island is the only one in a hat.

To sooth Fatman's ruffled feelings in 258, AFAIK in the age of wigs, people carried hats in their right hand to make graceful bows with. I once went to a lecture where the etiquette of waving your hat around was explained by a woman using a beautiful tricorne with gold lace.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 1:49 AM
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308: That link doesn't really say why Lucy Liu sucks, though someone might want to talk to the photographer who thought the javelin-in-heels shot was a good idea. (The balance-beam-in-heels shot is actually pretty impressive.) And the archery shot is gold.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 2:45 AM
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316: Yeah, the Aveda shampoo is lovely. Their conditioner is too heavy for me, tho'.

My son, who's also Asian, started out life with fine hair, which abruptly started curling when he hit puberty. This has pissed him off no end. In addition, it's dry, so he spends time sitting around with avocado smushed into it, which gives him a jaunty, if somewhat guacamolean, look.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 3:30 AM
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vinegar (our mother used to rinse out our hair in vinegar to 'make it shine').

Ooh, I forgot to mention, post-olive-oil-treatment, it's often good to do an apple cider vinegar rinse to get rid of the excess oil.

Children are cruel mirrors.

The kid I babysit told me I have a big butt. I protested that I did not, and he gave me a look like 'who you kidding.'


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 5:20 AM
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I kind of love that honesty from kids though. It makes their unconditional love kind of real.

REeally interesting observation.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 5:33 AM
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gives him a jaunty, if somewhat guacamolean, look.

Racist. Guacamoleans are no worse groomed than anyone else from Central America; that's just a horrible stereotype left over from the 1920s US occupation of Guacamolea.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 5:35 AM
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371:and he gave me a look like 'who you kidding.

And then you said, "At least during my formative years I didn't have a babysitter who used subtle rhetorical ploys to undercut my future self-confidence."


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 5:35 AM
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Why is Jezebel blaming Lucy Liu for the $25,000 earrings? If someone handed me $25,000 earrings and said put these on so we can take your picture, I would definitely put them on, and then after the photo I'd make a run for it. And that javelin shot is beautiful. I bet Jezebel goes to see Dark Knight and says "No one could keep something like the Bat Cave a secret, and how does Bruce Wayne stay awake all night and all day?"


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 7:02 AM
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The Liu auther confused the shot put and the hammer throw.

Children are cruel mirrors. My six year old niece.....

Well, whenever I showed up at her daycare, my six year old niece would shout to her friends "Here's my uncle with the big fat belly!" and would run over and lift my shirt to show them.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 7:10 AM
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Here's my uncle with the big fat belly!

This was before Emerson's Tour de Wobegon['s bars], which has him down to a trim 165. Seriously, he looks like Champion from Triplets of Belleville now.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 7:48 AM
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The beer belly is independent of thinness and fatness. It's an actual repurposing of the belly to hold lots of fluid.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:00 AM
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305.3 is objectively untrue.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:19 AM
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329: Personally, I find that mutton chops have an excessively musky flavor, particularly when the subcutaneous fat is not well trimmed before roasting. I much prefer chops from an immature lamb, while mutton should be reserved for braised dishes and stews, or avoided all together if possible.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:22 AM
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330: Mutton chops are delicious!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:33 AM
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Kraabie, e-mail me. Kn---t_Rup----t@yahoo.com


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:37 AM
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||

IEEE says no robot body for Instapundit. Mean IEEE!

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:40 AM
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Children are cruel mirrors.

The worst are one's own sprogs.

Imagine that you have carefully created a new life that is intelligent, very insightful, and persistent. These are all traits that you have fostered, valued, and nurtured in this new life. You have also invited that life into your personal space, exposing your most secret and vulnerable sides.

Now imagine that life, the life which used to look at you with adoring eyes full of admiration, now decides to dedicate itself to finding, exposing, and picking at every single flaw you have.

Relentlessly. Gleefully. Competently. For God only knows what reason.

It is kinda like a marriage that has soured except no divorce is possible.

All you can really do is pray that they grow out of it.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:48 AM
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It gets worse until they're about 20. In some cases, 80.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:55 AM
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335: Amen brother. My first has grown out of it. My second maybe never will. The third is well into it, and the fourth is just entering it. My fourth, being female, has first turned on her mother, but I know my time is coming as soon as I support my wife, which I must do, at least in front of the fourth.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 9:01 AM
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Mary Catherine--Try Cider vinegar.

When I was in high school, there was always a bus which drove people to the airport at vacation times. I usually got picked up by car, but one year I was going out to Colorado to visit my aunt and uncle and my grandmother. All of the rest of us wore casual clothes, but the light-skinned African American kid wore a very nice jacket and tie. He explained that he got better service when he did that. He was upper middle class and not on financial aid; his father was a lawyer who later became a judge.

He always dressed beautifully, and teh other African American kids dressed fine. I haven't seen an example of that that's quite so pronounced since. I guess that it's especially important when you're a 15 year-old black boy.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 9:04 AM
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So in case anyone is worried that I am too full of myself, please be assured that I have been professionally drilled, fractured, and crushed many times by people that are good at it, that love their job, and that the law says I must provide for.

Oh yeah. Now watch me cosign this student loan.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 9:05 AM
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He always dressed beautifully, and teh other African American kids dressed fine. I haven't seen an example of that that's quite so pronounced since. I guess that it's especially important when you're a 15 year-old black boy.

I sort of see both sides of this story. I sympathize with that 15 year-old black boy some, and I know what the original article was saying. I just want to add that many non-black children are also reminded to dress up.

I don't want to ignore the fact that it is *more* important for the black families or that in general they are not as high on the ladder. I want to add to that and say that all of us are on the ladder and we all are treated better, at least a little, when we dress up.

It shouldn't be that way for anyone, but it is true nonetheless. I also don't know any kids who like being told that. I didn't. I don't especially like it now, but I've had to accept it.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 9:11 AM
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I think you have to be very careful with the line between pushing `dressing up' and pushing `conformity'.

Most kids already have far too much pressure to the latter, and if anything need a bit of a push the other way (because while there are certainly social costs to being too non-conformists, there are very real costs to being unthinkingly conformist -- I'm not suggesting anyone should push their kids to be anarcho-syndicalists or whatever)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 9:21 AM
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I think you have to be very careful with the line between pushing `dressing up' and pushing `conformity'.

A very well dressed kid is going to get shit from his peers for NOT conforming to prevailing standards. Males especially will have to fend off homophobic insinuations. It takes guts and self-confidence (or strong parental coercion) for a teenager to dress like an office employee, much less like a bank manager.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 9:29 AM
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340: I hear you regarding conformity. Individuality was, in my youth, a really big deal, so we all showed our individuality by dressing like all the other hippies.

Essentially while we thought the were being non-conformist we were simply conforming to a different norm.

When kids get older you can explain that just like they need to dress a certain way to fit in with their friends they must also dress a certain way to fit in with the rest of society. They won't like hearing that they are conforming to their peers, because they desperately want to think they are being individualistic. They really won't like hearing that they must conform to the Man at any time. Pretty much teens don't like hearing anything, especially from their parents.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 9:40 AM
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Ooh, I forgot to mention, post-olive-oil-treatment, it's often good to do an apple cider vinegar rinse to get rid of the excess oil.

Your hair sounds delicious, Cala.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 9:41 AM
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Your hair sounds delicious, Cala.

Oh yes. Surprisingly healthy, too. May we buy some in a bottle?


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:01 AM
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340, 341: I always talk about it in terms of codes. Thinking of dress choices and mannerisms as a way of showing respect, adapting to the culture around you, and telegraphing the messages that *you* want to send is a lot less antagonistic than preaching that there is One Correct Code, and/or reflexively resisting any attempt to be fenced in.

In other news, my experience of adolescents -- from both sides of the equation -- bears no resemblance to Tripp's. YMMV, in other words.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:04 AM
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Kids should learn to dress to the occasion. But a lot of times they dress to an identity, such as grunge or hiphop. That can lead to problems. They could end up like me, for example.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:05 AM
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It takes guts and self-confidence (or strong parental coercion)utter toolishness for a teenager to dress like an office employee, much less like a bank manager.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:13 AM
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Kids should learn to dress to the occasion.

Especially court dates.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:13 AM
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I always talk about it in terms of codes. Thinking of dress choices and mannerisms as a way of showing respect, adapting to the culture around you, and telegraphing the messages that *you* want to send is a lot less antagonistic than preaching that there is One Correct Code, and/or reflexively resisting any attempt to be fenced in.

Part of white privilege - and this is kind of redundant with the post, but whatever - is not recognizing the salience of these codes. Minority (and, to an extent, poor and Southern white) kids learn, one way or another, about adapting to the relevant culture. But a typical middle class white kid A. can pretty effortlessly adapt, as most of the relevant cultures are (flavors of) his own, and B. can get away with blowing off the relevant culture. There's also a gender element to this, of course.

But anyway, what Witt is talking about is valuable in making explicit to (by definition) privileged white kids that they do this thing, that they have to do it to some extent, and that everyone else has to do it more.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:18 AM
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341: This kid's Dad was a lawyer and he left our school Senior year when his Dad became a judge and suffered a drop in income. He didn't look like a bank manager; his clothes were much nicer than that.

In fact, he was incredibly popular and loved the school. My high school had a lot of racial/ class problems, and he was very popular and not considered a minority by a lot of the white jocks even though he was slightly overweight and not particularly good at sports. He got along pretty well with the other minority types even if he didn't sit at their table.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:20 AM
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349 vehemently seconded. It's really startling to me how powerfully (white) people resist the idea that the reaction they get when walking around in sloppy clothes might just possibly not be the same reaction that other people get when they wear a similar outfit. Privilege dies hard, I guess.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:25 AM
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RE: the link in 348, and just for the record, I wholeheartedly support sundresses.

Very low carbon footprint, I'm sure.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:25 AM
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After I moved out, my mom had a Japanese exchange student stay at the house for a while. His father was business partner of an extremely famous Japanese designer, and before coming to New England for prep school his life had involved a lot of travel to Paris for fashion week and the like. Generally he dressed like a vaguely schlubby prep, all polo shirts and shorts and sandals, but you could tell that when he did get the opportunity to dress more nicely -- for a dance, say, or a celebratory dinner -- you could tell he was immensely relieved to be able to dress (by his lights) normally, in hip (even edgy), finely tailored suits.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:26 AM
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I love sundresses. The fact that they are not often appropriate for me to wear makes me mournful.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:29 AM
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If you spent more time as a defendant, Witt, you could wear them more often.

(Were you trying to sat that one up?)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:35 AM
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Witt,

In other news, my experience of adolescents -- from both sides of the equation -- bears no resemblance to Tripp's. YMMV, in other words.

Can you expand on this? I'm not disputing it, just curious. Also I want to make it clear that personally I was a wonderful youth and teen, lauded by both my peers and adults that I was nearly perfect in every way.

At least that is how I recall it.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:35 AM
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It's really startling to me how powerfully (white) people resist the idea that the reaction they get when walking around in sloppy clothes might just possibly not be the same reaction that other people get when they wear a similar outfit. Privilege dies hard, I guess.

This reminds me of something. Back when I worked construction full time, I was very aware of the (mis)impression presumably being formed in the minds of people I'd encounter. Not that anything untoward ever happened, but as a lifelong geek type, it always interested me to consider the assumptions about a guy in work clothes, covered in coal dust or mud, walking into a store.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:36 AM
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My similar epiphany moment came when I was in England. I worked there and general could pass but as soon as I spoke I was identified as an American. It wasn't a bad thing, but sometimes I did prefer to just buy my groceries or whatever and I found myself not talking at those times.

My epiphany was that even when attention is generally *good* it is not always wanted, and also while it was fairly easy for me to pass by keeping quiet some people, like those of color, did not have that ability.

Please note I'm not comparing my experience with the prejudice that many people face. It just allowed me, to a small degree, to feel what it might be like.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:45 AM
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as a lifelong geek type, it always interested me to consider the assumptions about a guy in work clothes, covered in coal dust or mud, walking into a store.

My experience is the opposite. I'm still the geek type, no matter what I'm wearing.

A year and a half ago, I made a brief visit to my parents in Deep Redstatia for a funeral. My dad wanted some help installing a precast concrete thigamabob that he was expecting to be delivered, so I put on old overalls, rubber boots, and my father's worn-out Carhart jacket, and went down to await the delivery. While I was standing there, a gentleman stopped by to ask for directions. I chatted with him for a minute, and he asked me "You ain't from around here, are you?" as I stood a few steps away from the house I grew up in. Between the haircut, the glasses, and the manner of speaking, I had no chance to pass as a local.

A friend in PDBS who volunteers for Obama asked me why I didn't go down to Deep Redstatia to work on GOTV. I had to confess that I could no longer pass for a local.



Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:49 AM
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as soon as I spoke I was identified as an American

Americans and Australians are eagerly sought after as receptionists in London offices, because the job only pays enough to attract a fairly low SES employee, and a British employee would be instantly "classable" by her accent, whereas an American or Australian accent is merely exotic and carries no class implications.

I've seen the same phenomenon in reverse, where a couple of working class Geordies were cleaning up at a resort town in South Carolina by playing the suave Englishman to the delighted sorority girls.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:55 AM
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"You ain't from around here, are you?" as I stood a few steps away from the house I grew up in.

Someone said that to me at the RMV in Watertown about a month ago. "you're not from Boston, are you?"


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:56 AM
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I've seen the same phenomenon in reverse, where a couple of working class Geordies were cleaning up at a resort town in South Carolina by playing the suave Englishman to the delighted sorority girls.

Rachel, unlike the $%^&'s, heard England in Entwistle's voice, not Worksop and Valley Comprehensive. He was stroke, and therefore the natural superior of Shrewsbury, Radley and all the fellows sitting on sliding seats behind him in the boat. No wonder he saw her as 'the most amazing woman in the world': she was probably the first girl he'd ever met who didn't immediately place him by his accent.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:57 AM
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There's a very good British actor in Portland Oregon who gets all the British nobleman parts. His accent is Cockney, and in Portland that's good enough.

(In truth, he's a really good actor and probably learns the appropriate accents for his parts. But in PDX his natural accent is "British".)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 10:58 AM
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361:

It is fairly astonishing how much accent effects how we are treated. Sure, appearance plays the biggest part but our voice is very important as well.

I'm surprised we haven't seen the reality show where people are taught to speak properly, something like "How not to Talk."


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 1:27 PM
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couple of working class Geordies were cleaning up at a resort town in South Carolina by playing the suave Englishman to the delighted sorority girls.

To be fair to the sorority girls, I find a lot of UK accents very pleasant to listen to regardless of the class implications. I've got a friend who speaks what I think is middle/lower-middle class London (things like 'fink' for 'think'), and while he doesn't particularly sound upper class, I still like the sound. Same with Irish accents -- it's got nothing to do with class, the cousins of mine I'm thinking of didn't grow up wealthy or anything, I just like listening to them.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 1:34 PM
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I hear you regarding conformity. Individuality was, in my youth, a really big deal, so we all showed our individuality by dressing like all the other hippies.

I cut a long blathery bit about most teenagers need to be `non-conformist' in exactly the same way.

But I was talking about the real thing, and it was really about not being unthinkingly conformist, or non-conformist. Far more young people (and many older ones) are the former.

341: Dressing a 16 year old up like a 30 year old is no better than dressing a 30 year old like a 16 year old, but that wasn't really what I was talking about, and has more to do with the motivations behind intentionally dressing out of context. It's not like the 16 year old going to high school in an office suit (a pretty dull sartorial choice, all in all) is doing anything particularly interesting or fitting with their fashion choices, they're just self-identifying with a group they don't belong to, in order to distance themselves from their peers. Of course they get shit for it.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 1:45 PM
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365: LizardBreath,

I know what you mean. Some vocal sounds and accents are much more pleasant for me to hear than others are. To generalize I'd say that coming from a midwestern US background I dislike any guttural or "Phlegm-clearing" back of the throat sounds. Clicks are fairly neutral. Also the tonal quality required in some Asian languages I find rather annoying and whiny-sounding.

I admit this is subjective. When I was in England I tried to explain my views on this (in general English accents sound 'good' to me) and asked them how an American accent sounded to them - good, bad, something else? I didn't get much of an answer. I don't know if they were being polite or I was not being clearly understood or what was happening.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 2:19 PM
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Can you expand on this?

Well, you said:

Now imagine that life, the life which used to look at you with adoring eyes full of admiration, now decides to dedicate itself to finding, exposing, and picking at every single flaw you have. Relentlessly. Gleefully. Competently. For God only knows what reason.

I'm very familiar with the phenomenon of teens noticing and calling other people on their flaws. I agree that most of us go through a developmental phase where our ability to detect flaws outstrips our ability to manage the social nuances of how to discuss them.

But I never spent time around teens who had practiced that kind of childhood adoration, nor did I myself. So it doesn't reflect my experience to pretend that there was this My Parent is Perfect phase that didn't have its own textures and complications.

And much more important, even when teens practice the most merciless variety of this behavior, it's still not how they relate to the world 24/7. (Or even how they relate to their parents.)

In general I think generalizations are problematic. Stereotyping teenagers as if they're automatically programmed to turn into obnoxiously little fault-finding machines when the clock strikes 13 is really kind of obnoxious, and whether or not you intended it, that's what I read in your comment. Especially this:

It is kinda like a marriage that has soured except no divorce is possible. All you can really do is pray that they grow out of it.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 2:26 PM
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368 was me. And I'm not just picking on Tripp; Emerson's 335 was also annoying. Though mitigated slightly by the amusement value of 355. (Answer: No, sorry, I'm not that clever or subtle.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 2:28 PM
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How much of this discussion of teenagers follows from heritable personality traits?

My mother told me frequently during her rages at something I had done as a teenager "I hope you get one just like you are!" And now my hope that my kid won't turn out like me is so strong that I've considered prayer.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 2:39 PM
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How much of this discussion of teenagers follows from heritable personality traits?

My biased opinion is that expecting that people "are" going to behave a certain way tends to elicit the behavior you are expecting.

Nobody understands the organic nuts and bolts well enough to know why certain traits show up or don't show up. A tremendous amount of evidence shows that the interplay between genes and environment -- both internally and externally -- is powerful. And again, nobody really understands it.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 3:27 PM
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I'm a big believer that teenagers act like little shits when things are really rough for them, and they are fantastic at covering up the fact that things are really rough for them.

I mean, all teenagers have their moments. I'm thinking of a kid who has gotten locked into only sniping at their parents and making every moment miserable.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 3:31 PM
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It's also a mistake to think that teenagers are acting in a vacuum. I think a lot of parents have difficulty with the transition as well, and many behave poorly in their own way. This can be a pretty nasty feedback on family dynamics.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 3:34 PM
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One thing about your own kids -- it's not that they're so mean, but they are so close: they can get to you like a spouse can, just because there's such a strong emotional connection. I get along great with my kids, and they're sweethearts, but I've already had moments where I've been very glad that our relationship isn't conflicty, and very worried about what future conflicts will be like.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 3:47 PM
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People close to you know where your weak points are too.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 3:49 PM
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374, 375: Or like the pop-psych saying goes, Your family can push your buttons so well because they're the ones who installed them.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 4:28 PM
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But I never spent time around teens who had practiced that kind of childhood adoration, nor did I myself. So it doesn't reflect my experience to pretend that there was this My Parent is Perfect phase that didn't have its own textures and complications.

Well, I've only had the one kid so far (in a verbal stage, anyway), but she sure does go in for the adoration. "Mama, you're my best Mom." Or looking at me with eyes that should be in a schlock puppy painting and saying, "I love you, Daddy." It's sweet and heartwarming, but so over the top that I'm as likely to laugh (inwardly, of course) as to melt.

But anyway, if she ends up a difficult teen, it will be quite the comedown. I was a great teen (sullen, but on my own time), but my sister had a lot of tensions with my mom. AB doesn't think she was so bad, but her parents recall differently. I don't think they were prepared for a moody teen - she had been Iris-like as a child.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 4:58 PM
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I was a great teen too!

Memorable (typical?) conversation:

Arresting officer: So we called your mom to come pick you up but she said we should keep you. We'll hold you here till court on monday since the juvie is full.


Posted by: Jimmy Carter | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 5:12 PM
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377.2: Maybe this is semantic. In my lexicon, you can be earnest and loving without being blindly adoring. And an earnest and loving child can still see that her parents are not perfect, while adoration seems likelier to lead to a rude crash.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 5:56 PM
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soupbiscuit's point in 373 is worth noting. An earnest and loving early relationship is a function of mutual feedback, leaving room for honest disagreement, which can break down later from either side. Or from both.

I don't really understand what Witt's complaint here is. Obviously Tripp (and John) were exaggerating for effect -- it's a standard line about teenagers -- and I doubt they meant that all childraising follows the pattern they described.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 6:27 PM
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370: Do you mean "heritable" in a genetic sense or a Lamarckian one? The Offspring, whilst sharing nary a gene with me, is, indeed, like me in ways that will never, I fear, endear him to middle management. OTOH, some of the traits we share, whether transmitted to him via extraterrestrial radiation or just plain proximity, make it easier for us to understand each other.

OTOH, it never does one's ego any good to have one's Hope for the Future find one's teenage photos and comment 'Mom - you looked just like Reese Witherspoon! What happened?'


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:20 PM
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Obviously Tripp (and John) were exaggerating for effect

And just as folks here object when people make comments along the lines of "Men are all horndogs who always and only want sex/Any woman who wants to get laid can always find a partner," I object to condescending and sweeping statements about teenagers. First because they're not true, and second because I think it's actively damaging to society -- yea, even in a blog comment section -- to promote those kinds of assumptions and attitudes.

(Also, I may have been unclear in 371, because part of it was supposed to be making the point that 373 did better. "External environment" was meant to include how parents are acting, not just whether there is lead-based paint dust floating around.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:25 PM
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Yay Witt!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:30 PM
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382.1: Of course, I understand. Understood, actually. I was just a little surprised that this one in particular would offend. Of all the outrageous things people say around here.

Comity.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:30 PM
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In my lexicon, you can be earnest and loving without being blindly adoring.

Well, I am talking about a four year old. She often makes extravagant statements about her love for her teddy bear. I don't take her praise as seriously as I do, say, Knecht Ruprecht's.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:40 PM
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Awww, Sifu, parsimon, you guys are my favorite former teenagers. For tonight, anyway.

(And hey, am I the only person who is a wee bit disillusioned that DE's Offspring apparently calls her by the decidedly prosaic title of "Mom"?)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:42 PM
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OK, Witt, OK. You teenagers are often OK. Would you get the fuck off my lawn now?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:48 PM
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Since you asked so sweetly, sure.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 8:53 PM
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They have such smart mouths on them.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 9:07 PM
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386: I tried convincing him to call me "Your Most Supreme & Effulgent Highness, Ruler of the Multiverse," but it never took. And unless one lives in a stately mansion, "Mumsy" is a little too twee at his age. OTOH, the habit at his daycare centre amongst the rugrat coterie was to call parents "Meganmummy" or "Christopherdaddy", so I was "Offspringmummy" for four years.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 08- 7-08 9:45 PM
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