Everyone has been able to tell immediately that all my relationships are disasters.
If it helps, heebie, I feel I have done some substantial work educating my friends and family and random acquaintances of this.
Although, I might quibble with the part about odds favoring non-pathological parents. All parents are pathological in their own special ways. You'll understand this soon enough.
All parents are pathological in their own special ways.
Heh. But most kids have a lucky dash of resilience, right? And end up coming out just as well-adjusted as we did...or something.
1: But you can just tell that you'll make a great cat lady spinster.
I just can tell Heebie will be a very special mother.
3: Oh, absolutely. Rory is fabulous, despite the fact that her parents are fucking disasters. Turns out, the kids raise the parents more than anything else -- but you are not allowed to let them know that or the spell will be broken.
Yet as though to prove your point, I'm allergic to cats.
Have you tried self-mortification? Make a virtue out of necessity. I've heard that the S/M shops have a product line for ascetics.
A couple of friends just announced a pregnancy, and I congratulated them, saying that I was sure they'd be wonderful parents. Now, they're both weirdos, each with ticks and hangups that might be problematic, but I'm fairly confident that they'll figure it out along the way and at the very least, they will love their child fiercely. So, I figured, why not affirm?
each with ticks
Hope their kid doesn't catch Lyme disease.
9: Agreed. Consider the alternative: "You two are disasters. This just proves your insanity!" Not the best way to preserve a friendship.
9: To be picky, it doesn't sound like you're an uninformed acquaintance.
I just found out that the common local wood tick doesn't spread disease. All that wasted terror during my childhood. But the local deer tick, which is newer and less common I think, does.
Aren't all non-participants basically uninformed? My mother (and probably most other people's mothers) used to say that nobody can really understand what happens within somebody else's marriage. She may have used a pithier phrase I'm not remembering. Anyway: people can put up some pretty impressive, long-term facades.
All non-participants are ultimately uninformed, but I've got plenty of opinions about how great or shitty my friends' relationships and parenting skills are. If I told my friend that I thought they had a great relationship, it would really be my opinion of their relationship, or a testament to their hiding skills. Whereas if I say it to a colleague or someone who I think is great fun at a party, it's idiotic.
Only one who is a holy terror can be a good parent. Someone needs to put the fear of god into the little brats.
Ah, by and large, I never say nothing about nobody.
I'm very loving and supportive behind closed doors.
Instead of assessing the quality of their relationship on the emotional level, you should say things like "I bet they have really hot sex." That might be less immediately transferable to the parenting thing, though.
If they skip protection, there might be a link.
Another angle: I bet that they're really good about dividing up the household chores in such a way as to avoid resentment and passive-aggression.
The Ben Support Structure should not be used outdoors, where it is subject to sudden and mysterious collapse.
Wood ticks can carry Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, but don't carry Lyme disease which is carried by deer ticks.
So there is some risk from wood ticks, but it is very very low. So all that fear wasn't wasted John just most of it.
Instead of assessing the quality of their relationship on the emotional level, you should say things like "I bet they have really hot sex."
I have found speculating about this to be an incredibly bad idea.
I believe that the standard procedure with couples is to speculate about a threesome.
Apparently RMSF is mostly southern and is pretty rare in Minnesota (between 1 and 10 cases every two years). It was discovered in the Rockies but isn't centered there.
The thing with speculating about other couples' sex lives is that it lends itself much more readily to empirical research, in the form of videotapes. Then you could engage in a rigorous study of the relationship between their public facade and their sexual practices, so that you could make better guesses in the future.
"You can tell they'll be very fair when dividing up the assets."
2/3
They fuck you up, your mom and dad
They may not mean to, but they do.
31:
BooksBlogs are a load of crap.
31: Note that W-lfs-n's theory is extremely controversial.
16: Right, Ben. you also have to add just a tiny bit of rejection so the kids will take care you when you're old.
Anyway, IMX people very close to a relationship may or may not have any idea of what's going on it it. One of my kids knew the marriage was in trouble for a few years before the meltdown, the other was taken completely by surprise. (The "kids" at that time were in their late twenties.)
I have no trouble speculating about other's marriages/sex lives/child raising/etc. but I don't bet anything valuable on being right.
And yes, children are indeed quite resilient. It really doesn't pay to agonize over every decision or action. The thing to do is avoid the immediately fatal ones and then relax, otherwise you'll soon sound like Judith Warner.
"You can tell they'll be such great parents!"
You absolutely can tell in some cases that people will be good or bad parents. Good parents are attentive and loving. That's a pretty generic personality trait which is readily observable in non-parenting situations. OTOH people who are controlling and manipulative are pretty much bound to be shitty parents, and again the traits are likely to show up in non-parenting situations.
There are a lot of couples who have personalities that tend to obscure their child rearing style and the dynamics of their relationship, but it's far from true that this is always the case.
The key is what constitutes sufficient information, which you cleverly weaseled into the post in a way that makes it impossible to really take a firm stand against the thesis of the post. From this I deduce that you beat your spouse and will quite likely sell your child to Gypsies.
Being sold to Gypsies was the best thing that ever happened to me.
I would like to know what others think of my relationship, but I don't ever hear such comments. They might or might not be on to something, but I just have no idea what kind of image we project.
15: Whereas if I say it to a colleague or someone who I think is great fun at a party, it's idiotic.
Sure it is, but saying the right insincere/unsupported thing at the right time is standard, and people will look at you funny if you don't do it. Innocuous small talk, as you say. I suppose that if one does engage in this, one marks oneself as a small-talker, which is a thing.
You seem to me to have a dark secret in your past.
Heebie also refuses to tell people that they're not fat.
Being sold to Gypsies was the best thing that ever happened to me.
Economists agree that the free market is the best way to allocate children. Social scientists agree that gossip about others' children is the best way to enforce societal control over the means of production.
Adam Smith was kidnapped by gypsies when he was four.
Adam Smith was kidnapped the object of a hostile takeover by gypsies when he was four.
People still talk about it at parties to this day.
JS Mill had transcribed the great works of Gypsy oral literature and translated them into English and Ancient Greek when he was four.
Being sold to Gypsies was the best thing that ever happened to me.
Racist.
People who have actually spent time with Gypsies: Jaroslav Hasek (novelist) and Jacques Callot (printmaker).
Long ago I met a man married to a Gypsy. Gypsies are very, very conservative and ethnocentric and she was disowned. Her goal was to live a generic American life, like on TV.
Nah, Django was a suburban wannabe. Not makin it real. Not down with the hood.
OT: Nothing makes me realize how misspent my youth was more than having my daughter appeal to me for help learning to play basketball (apparently there's going to be some kind of gym class basketball thing, and she fears humiliation.) We went and shot some hoops (that's the correct phrase, I believe) earlier, and man oh man do I suck. I can stand anywhere I like on the court, with no one bothering me at all, and I've got about a one in ten change of getting the ball in the hoop. Sally's worse than I am only in virtue of being a foot shorter.
Still, she got to the point where her shots were consistently getting higher than the rim, which is important for humilation-avoidance purposes.
47: Years ago I met an (american) gypsy how made his living trading horses. Apparently they've got a huge percentage of that market these days, especially relative to population size.
further to 51, at the time I noticed some pretty striking parallels with (1%er) biker culture, but I didn't spend enough time with him to see if it was more than superficial.
Turns out, the kids raise the parents more than anything else
There's a type of movie where the kids talk like adults and the adults act like children. I fucking hate those.
Used cars too they say. Stolen cars they say.
Spokane had a big Gypsy scandal awhile back. Police misconduct and a big payoff. Spokane is creepy.
The difficulty of assessing a relationship is the square of the difficulty of assessing a person. Very sensitive people can do it and the rest are confounded.
Slightly OT, Modern Love was very good last week (about the decades' relationship a woman maintained with the mother of a lover whom she knew for about a year before he died) and perfectly decent this week (a candid, unpretentious examination of what it means to a woman to be a breadwinner or to be taken care of).
The NYT article about DFW today, however, was crap.
Wrongshore, that's impossible. I don't know why you said that.
Because of his fiancee, I'd guess.
Used cars too they say. Stolen cars they say.
If only Adam Smith's biological parents had been more sensitive to the risk of hostile takeovers he might have made something of that "economics" of his. If he'd been raised by people with a proper appreciation of the importance of regulation and collective action, rather than by people who fetishized freedom and individuality, we wouldn't be in the pickle we're in today.
That's why it's importnt for people at parties to say things like "I'm sure they'll be great parents, they seem very aware of the importance of teaching their fetus about social responsibility and protecting it from the wrong sort of peer influence." And he'd have been a better basketball player, because in sports they teach the importance of rules and teamwork.
Dammit, Emerson, I'm sick of you crushing my infrequent appreciation for Modern Love. Let me preserve some of my childlike wonder with the idiosyncrasies of upper-middle-class publishing.
I am not the breadwinner right now, it's true.
Is the wedding at New York Mills again?
No. New York Mills is coming my way. She's very excited about the weather. They only have one degree there, it seems. We've got, like fifty goddamn degrees.
You absolutely can tell in some cases that people will be good or bad parents. Good parents are attentive and loving.
I personally believe I can sometimes tell, because I'm just that good. But whenever I hear someone praise someone's hypothetical or actual parenting, invariably it's coming from some overly positive Pollyanna type. So I think the type of person who reaches for those compliments is misguided, and plus it's a pet peeve.
I suspect the compliment isn't intended as an actual assessment of the person's parenting abilities or the couple's compatibility.
It is very easy to attract potential-father compliments. A youngish, childless man who can hold a baby without seizing up in terror or can talk to a young child neither gruffly nor as a baby elicits universal awe. Expectations are low.
Heebie's so cute when she's peeved. She'll be a great Mom!
64: That it's just to help quell fears and insecurities of future parenting difficulties? I can buy that for parenting; not so much for couples compatibility.
But often it just seems like it's projecting that these two smell like parents on some level that doesn't amount to anything more substantial than shopping at The Gap and listen to NPR. Or whatever smells like nurturing to the beholder. I just think the beholder is projecting.
65: That's another pet peeve of mine. In fact, that may even be a bigger pet peeve. I forgot about that one. You can just tell!
Don't make me stamp my foot and jut out my lower lip.
67: That it's meant to express something like "I like your boyfriend" or "That's really cute."
I dunno, I seem to hear people go on at length about what great parents/partners various third parties are. More than the idle "They're great together!" meaning "I like them both, and they like each other! How great!"
When it's coming from one set of parents to another, sometimes it's an idle compliment, but sometimes it's recognition of that they're doing some particular thing well that you have trouble with. "Huh, she spoke in a reasonable tone of voice to her kid, and the kid stopped doing the annoying thing he was doing. I have to make noises only bats can hear to get that kind of responsiveness. She must be good at this stuff."
Used cars too they say. Stolen cars they say.
Not my experience, but that might just be the parts of the country/continent I in at the time.
"Huh, she spoke in a reasonable tone of voice to her kid, and the kid stopped doing the annoying thing he was doing."
This is the velvet glove technique.
72: And sometimes it's recognition of the other couple's use of the same dysfunctional parenting techniques. It's nice to have one's prejudices affirmed, especially when they are stupid and self-destructive.
Sure, but still irks me. Maybe the kid is docile, or gets tons of fear instilled in them, or whatever. But that gets away from what my underlying peeve is: people who feel compelled to paint other people's lives as rosy-colored and free from complexity. All these counter-examples wouldn't probably not actually bother me if they happened to occur without triggering the underlying peeve.
65 is true. I was at a pool party where I offered to hold the hostess' baby so that she could change into her swimsuit. You'd think I'd offered to go down to the barn and birth her calves for her.
When someone makes the "He'll be a great father!!" comment, I always want to snark, "But would he be a good mother?"
As in, they're basing it on the fact that the guy isn't biting the baby or using it to wipe his ass, and so he'll be a non-absentee parent! WOOT! Which is a far cry from being a load-bearing parent.
76: Don't worry Heebie, we are all as messed up and confused as you are, People make these comments because they have the vain hope that someone, somewhere, might be happy. You and I know they are fooling themselves, but we can just let them have their little illusions.
Thank you, Rob. I can tell you're a great commenter.
79, more: People make these comments because they're invested in the notion that the rosy, uncomplicated life should be the norm. Maybe it peeves Heebie because it makes it sound as though anything short of that is faulty (well, obviously it would be). I guess I'm just puzzled that a person wouldn't have noticed this very strong tendency toward reality-denial before now.
I am really good with the tiniest babies. I impressed a whole roomful of moms when I cuddled my less-than-a-year-old niece to sleep at her sister's birthday party.
Maybe it peeves Heebie because it makes it sound as though anything short of that is faulty (well, obviously it would be).
Probably so.
I guess I'm just puzzled that a person wouldn't have noticed this very strong tendency toward reality-denial before now.
I really do know many people who do it all the time, and I'd call it reality-denial. (Most notably my mom, which is why I'm childishly intolerant of it, if you want to put me under the microscope.)
82: I'm thinking it's 50/50 odds that before the end of his term someone will drop his pants, crap in his hand, and throw it at Bush. Admittedly, it's better than 50/50 odds that I will be the person in question, but still...
I'll hit him, too. I have very good aim.
Will the shoe thrower wind up in gitmo?
Will shoe throwing become a end of term trend, so that where ever he goes, Bush receives a rain of shoes?
"You can tell they'll be very fair when dividing up the assets."
As an aside, all divorce clients just want what is fair.
Nobdy has ever told me that they want to be unfair.
84: I don't think it's childish to be intolerant of it. Then again, people say that I'm awfully blunt, which I deny.
Seriously, yes, people do it all the time, not just in terms of whether so-and-so are great parents or a great couple or whatever, but also over the extent to which Victoria's Secret is, like, totally what women look good in and want to wear, and how we all go out to fantastic restaurants whenever we have the chance, and nobody ever stays home on a weekend night, because really, how could you? Everything is beautiful and nothing hurts.
C'mon, this is pretty standard peer pressure toward group-think. I don't know what to say: try to avoid people who do it overly much? Because they're not going to stop it.
86: I think you pwned my just-put-up post. Or I pwned you. There was pwnage, I know that much.
this is the farewell kiss, you dogSo great. I would like this to be the first sentence I learn in Arabic. I would also like Obama to incorporate it into his inaugural address.
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We're having a blizzard. Not common here.
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87: They're lying to you, Will. You're an officer of the court, you know.
From further back: I grew up knowing the sons of perhaps the most prominent Roma person in the US. Their mother was not of that ethnicity. Very musical family to this day.
On-post: One of the things I've encountered is people telling me I'd "be a great dad" when, in fact, nothing could probably be further from the truth. It always seemed like that comment sprang equally from a desire to pay me (what the other person thought was) the greatest compliment possible, and their lack of a serious critique of the patriarchal family. Also, I get along pretty well with babies and small children, but how can you not? All these men who are blinded by patriarchy into thinking that the only small thing they can nurture is a puppy are just sad half-people.
Ahem. Well, I'll just pretend that 89 was directed towards 82.
Being sold to Gypsies
keep it classy, guys.
92.2: Ha, funnily, one of the best dads I know is someone who a lot of people think is a terrible person. He's sometimes mean to people, he makes snotty remarks, he's prideful and is dismissive of fools. Boy does he take being a dad very seriously, though he also, wisely, considers himself to be an idiot and fool.
My only personal experience with people saying parenting-related things to me has been the expressed sentiment that I'm really great with small children. That's good; I like them, small children.
I mean seriously, presumably none of the people on this thread would trade in crude racial stereotypes or blood libels about any other racial group, but Gypsies being dealers in child slaves is apparently right up there in the comedy stakes with prison rape.
I had to upbraid Yglesias the other day for using the racial epithet "wog".
That's good; I like them, small children.
Only if they're properly braised.
How does one upbraid Yglesias? He doesn't read his comments, does he? Perhaps you have to do it directly.
I can only assume dsquared is engaging in some sort of joke or attempt to bait insecure people.
to clarify 53, I meant the horse traders in particular, not the more general culture (of which I know next to nothing).
It's proverbial and most people don't realize that they exist in the US, or that they were proportionately Holocaust victims on a par with the Jews, or that they are still victims of significant discrimination in Europe.
The US population is in hundreds of thousands, though I don't believe Wiki's million.
using the racial epithet "wog".
!!!
I think that part of the "sold to the gypsies" proverb comes from the Biblical Joseph story, when Joseph was sold to Egypt.
I'd bet many Americans believe Gypsies were made up for the movies, like the Disney princesses, or Kazakhstan.
presumably none of the people on this thread would trade in crude racial stereotypes or blood libels about any other racial group
I think that part of the "sold to the gypsies" proverb comes from the Biblical Joseph story, when Joseph was sold to Egypt.
And some of mostly false accusation of kidnapping children from their having kidnapped Adam Smith.
The casual racial (and class) stereotyping on this blog is weird, it's true. The impression I've gotten from it is that it's more prevalent in society at large than I realized. That is all.
We're all ironic racists, like Sarah Silverman. Its the new thing.
I googled the Gypsy fellow I went to school with and found out that his mother died this year. That was sad, she was a good person and was always nice to me. If stupid cancer is going to just kill relatively young people, I've got a long list of folx who ought to have gotten theirs before she did.
Aside from Isabel Fonseca's Bury Me Standing, which is excellent, and ought to be in every HS curriculum, my favorite book about the Gypsies is Jan Yoors' The Gypsies. It's not rigorous scholarship, just a memoir, but it's hella romantic and cool.
110: Should I kill me now, or later?
I'd bet many Americans believe Gypsies were made up for the movies, like the Disney princesses, or Kazakhstan
I suspect that's right.
Or maybe gypsies are more like pirates insofar as some people might believe there were gypsies, but don't connect it to an actual existing ethnic group or social concern. I don't think most people who liked Pirates of the Caribbean are confusing them with the pirates in Somalia.
I try to limit my stereotyping to the Canadians, the Scandinavians including the Finns, and the British including their aboriginal peoples such as Welsh, Scots, and Irish.
115: That's mighty white of you, John.
And those who attend elite schools, John, don't forget.
I agree with John, but would add a friendly ammendment of Iowans, 'Sconnies and irritating bridge-and-tunnel types.
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I don't like Facebook. Having been on there for a month or so, the half dozen friends I've adopted just post silly things about how they're baking cookies, or are glad they don't have to go out in the cold, or here's a video of my toddler, and they've joined this or that group or fan club for this or that, or played this game, or just became friends with some person I've never heard of.
These friends must be adhering to a certain Facebook aesthetic. No editorializing? No thoughtfulness. I don't get it.
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The updates about how they have played this or that game or are a member of that group aren't messages that your friends have posted. Facebook automatically sends updates to your friends when you do certain things within Facebook. You can make some adjustments to your own preferences that will affect how many of these you see.
The stuff about how they're baking cookies and so on is in fact the point of Facebook, though. It's supposed to give you a way of feeling like you have a certain amount of contact with the daily trivia of your friends' lives. I like to do it more elliptically myself, but it's still the same idea. If people felt compelled to make thoughtful editorial pronouncements with their every status update, it would be even more insufferable than it actually is. Most people are not at their most enjoyable when they are producing a fifteen-word choice tidbit of what they believe to be wisdom.
120: For those with different tastes in gypsy music.
121: I think that it is such a broad networking tool - and that you're relatively limited in how much you can say in an status update - that Facebook is not the place to find thoughtfulness or editorializing (not that many places on the internet are). It's just yet another way to stay in touch - kind of like the Christmas card, I suppose.
Gah, total pawnage. Damn slow internet connection.
They're lying to you, Will. You're an officer of the court, you know.
This is correct. Truthfully, what I wanted was to see UNG utterly and completely destroyed, left destitute and at the mercy of debt collectors. Mind you, I probably also thought this was "only fair," all things considered.
As for the parenting angle, I have one friend who will frequently comment that I am such a patient mom. In context and knowing her as well as I do, this generally means, "Wow, you are incredibly lenient with your child. I would have cracked a whip and instituted some order an hour ago."
Same friend, incidentally, also used to comment about how perfect she thought my marriage was and how one day she hoped to marry a guy like UNG. In fact, I believe she has. I am very polite, though, and never say so directly.
Updates like "So-and-so is now friends with Hoobiewhat O'Something" are also automatically produced by Facebook rather than something your friends actively decided to share with you.
Truthfully, what I wanted was to see UNG utterly and completely destroyed, left destitute and at the mercy of debt collectors. Mind you, I probably also thought this was "only fair," all things considered.
Divorce scares the living shit out of me. Therefore, by extension, marriage does as well.
You know what I dislike about Facebook? People who distort silly comments into rumors that you are having hot, passionate sex with the guy in IT. Choose your Facebook friends wisely.
129: You have acquired great wisdom.
what different? i did not post that to say that's like authentic gypsy music or something
just i like their that song the best, then bamboleo, then some others
the pictures were also pretty nice
I didn't say anything about authenticity either. I just thought others might appreciate different, but related, music.
Geez Di. Get it correct.
I said that you were spending all of your time in bed getting it on with "it."
136: The hand in a box from the Addams Family? I guess there are some things it could do well, but it still seems limited.
And actually, Itt is the one with hair in Itt's face. The hand is Thing.
I just learned that Cousin It is known in Spanish as Tío Cosa—Uncle It.
134:
Andro verdan grundos nane
Man pirani shukar nane
Loli pxabai prechinava
Yepash tuke yepash mange
Hop hop hop.
**Translation into English:
In the caravan, floor there is none
My lover sweet I have none
This red apple I will cut
This half for you, this for me
Hop hop hop.
I can't hear it but it's a fun video.
there is another, longer version of it, i remember i liked the movie very much, pretty tragic, the girl gets killed? forgot, her gypsy beau's very jealous guy something, but i forgot, maybe it was different plot, i've seen it when i was a kid
Right, about Facebook: I realized that the updates about friends' activities were automated notifications. I didn't realize that the status remarks were limited to 15 words or some such, though it makes sense. I gather there is a way to make longer remarks if one is inclined.
I do see a point to it, but I'm having trouble maintaining interest in checking in very often.
Carry on!
As I said, gypsies are very conservative. As entertainers they can be very sexy, but they don't fool around.
144: Yet you always check here to see if McManus has walked his dogs yet.
Parsimon is just upset bc of the bad call for Baltimore.
Maybe the kid is docile, or gets tons of fear instilled in them
I once complimented Ogged on the manners of a couple of Iranian boys* who had been to our house (their mother is one of Mr. B's co-workers) and he told me that Iranians beat manners into their children. Which made me feel much better about PK's not having manners like that.
*Yes, because I am a racist.
No idea what 147 refers to.
146: That's something like it! I have other ways to check in with people I want to check in on! As long as Facebook doesn't make any demands of me, I'm cool with it.
Baltimore Ravens just got screwed tonight.
I regularly trade in blood libel about Jews.
97: I think it's safe to assume that the overwhelming majority of readers on this blog are aware of the issues surrounding stereotypes of gypsies and will take comments playing on those stereotypes in the ironic vein in which they are intended.
In support of D^2, prejudice against gypsies is a live issue in a number of countries in Europe, especially Eastern Europe, the way it really isn't here. It's more significant and open there than anti-Semitism.
On the topic of the post, I think my own low tolerance for a particular version of those kinds of remarks* is because I think the people speaking are making irrational assumptions. They're looking at surface behavior, or only one aspect of behavior, and ignoring the underlying emotion and attitudes.
Like, guy goes running out in the cold to get petulant girlfriend's special Starbucks drink and somebody says "Oooh, he's so thoughtful! They take care of each other sooo well," and I think: Gosh, that tone of voice and that body language are not what I would try to use to a dog, much less a fellow human being whom I supposedly love.
That said, my biases on this issue are:
1. Actions speak louder than words
2. Results matter more than compliance with social norms [results meaning: are the people in question happy with the outcome, NOT their friends and observers]
I also have the possibly delusional notion that I am a better reader of interpersonal cues than the tone-deaf people who make these kinds of remarks. Which is not to say I'm any great shakes at interpreting behavior, just that on the continuum I'm notably farther along.
*Meaning, not the social pleasantry of "Oh, you'll be a great father," generally said to someone's face, but the more insufferable "You can Just Tell that they're X...." generally said behind their back.
You must be wonderful with kids, Witt.
prejudice against gypsies is a live issue in a number of countries in Europe, especially Eastern Europe, the way it really isn't here.
I was very startled by the retrograde stereotypes and langauge on display in a NYT article in the last year or two about some Roma arrested for marriage fraud or some such scam. I think because they are so invisible in the U.S., the mainstream media image is kind of like Native Americans -- people vaguely think they've all died out, or something, and so it's somehow OK to fall back on 100-year-old stereotypes and terminology.
While searching just now for the article, which I could not find, I found one from May 2008 saying a mob of Italians attacked a "Gypsy camp" after a report that a 16-year-old Roma girl tried to steal a baby. Holy smokes.
They're looking at surface behavior, or only one aspect of behavior, and ignoring the underlying emotion and attitudes
Correct! In making these remarks, they're rewarding the surface behavior and minimizing the importance of the underlying etc. The people who make these remarks aren't necessarily tone-deaf: they often know perfectly well what they're endorsing. The only thing those who don't buy it might be further along in is in declining to buy it. So say I.
Results matter more than compliance with social norms [results meaning: are the people in question happy with the outcome, NOT their friends and observers]
and
Correct! In making these remarks, they're rewarding the surface behavior and minimizing the importance of the underlying etc. The people who make these remarks aren't necessarily tone-deaf: they often know perfectly well what they're endorsing. The only thing those who don't buy it might be further along in is in declining to buy it. So say I.
Indeed. People's behavior in front of an audience may or may not align with the way they behave in private. But it's awfully hard for an outsider to know what is or isn't just for show.
A. I've never been accused of being soft on the Steelers -- not ever -- but I think the call was correct. One of the few plays I saw of the game (having spent nearly all of it in a concession booth behind one of the endzones).
B. German speakers ought to think about reading Katrin Reemstma's Sinti und Roma.
a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tseT9oOd4pY"> Gipsy hip hop. Mostly Czech, a few Romany phrases. The band's famous for songs with profane Czech lyrics, maybe like 50 cent. Prejudice levels are all over the place; most gypsies in CZ and SK have been there for generations and speak the language. A nomadic lifestyle was made impossible around 1956.
They're universally acknowledged to have a natural sense of rhythm, though, and many people love the soul food.
I think the prejudice is worst where they've been the longest, though.
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Man, fuck barley. Farro is way better.
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162: Don't tell me that. I just advised my mother to make barley soup.
You'll have a long time to live with that shame.
163: Is she still shivering under a table with the cat, or did the nice people come cut the power on?
165: No power still. She now has a generator providing heat and enough power for one light. Still cooking over a single can of propane, and fussing over all the food in the fridge/freezer going bad. I said: use the frozen veggies to make soup! Um,
oh, she has no water, because water comes from a well which requires an electrically powered pump, it seems.
So, with just bottled water: soup from bouillon, unfrozen veggies and ... barley! Yeah! It's all cool.
166: Yikes, glad she is OK. I lived for a couple of days in a house with no power in December -- not fun.
Does it seem strange that a house blessed with well-water should fall on its face, water-wise, without electricity? Or, I guess maybe that's normal. I just thought wells were self-powering somehow. I dunno.
Jeebus, that sounds not fun, parsy. Good vibes being sent vaguely northward.
Thanks. I somewhat wish I were there with her, to make it into an adventure instead of a trial. But I'm flying up for the holidays in a week anyway.
I am fairly confident I wouldn't survive -- your mom sounds pretty rugged, Parsimon.
It's pretty much like camping. My mom only had one overnight without heat, during which it was down to 44 degrees inside the house. Otherwise, like camping: bottled water, limited cooking, conservation of this and that (mostly water), preservation of food.
I can do that without too much complaint if I have the gear, and I actually make sure I do (here); my mom's born and raised in New England and can get by, even though she let her gear lapse! Tsk, tsk. She doesn't a cooler large enough to accommodate a block of ice? Well, why is that?
doesn't have a cooler large enough
So this is fairly ordinary for New England then? Sheesh! That will put an end to my bitching about Chicago winters.
Just if you live in non-urban New England, especially upper states: the power will go out from time to time, yes. You might also find yourself snowed in every couple of years, where you literally can't open the door without digging yourself out. It makes life interesting.
Does it seem strange that a house blessed with well-water should fall on its face, water-wise, without electricity?
No, I believe this is typical in most places. Old-timey wells are generally depicted with a crank and bucket because for the most part, well water doesn't come out of the ground on its own. The electric pump at your mom's place is the modern version of this crank-and-bucket system. She presumably has a tank in her house which maintains a reservoir of water pressure, but being a reservoir, if it is tapped often enough without replenishment, its supply will be exhausted. At least, this is the way things work at my parents' northern MN cabin.
Wikipedia informs me that if your well goes into an artesian aquifer, the water comes out without a pump. Presumably these are less common, though. We have a geologist staying with us this week; perhaps I will ask him if he knows anything about aquifers when he returns from the bar.
176: Thanks, Otto. My mom's setup is as you describe, but for some reason I need a brain prod about it; we have to be careful about water use there at times.
I've taken to threatening to sell my children to the circus, rather than anything Gypsy-related. That's how you can tell I'm a great father.
(Although probably terribly racist towards circus folk.)
I threaten to sell mine to investment bankers.
I've taken to threatening to sell my children to the circus, rather than anything Gypsy-related.
Be careful. There's a risk they'll take them to England, and they'll grow up to be Prime Minister. You wouldn't like to have to throw shoes at your own kids, would you?
A friend of mine had a friend who was adopted out to a circus when she was 12. It was an interesting but very rough life, and formal education went down the drain. Circus and carnival people of whatever ethnicity are not like us.
172: I disagree that "it's pretty much like camping". I have experience with both. Camping makes me happy, while being snowed in to a frigid drafty house during a northeastern blizzard makes me seriously feel like I want to kill myself.
87: will, have you ever had a client whose idea of fair was actually much less than what she (and I'm guessing it would be a woman) deserved?
Mind over matter, PGD.
183: My guess is yes.
parsimon: oh, I'm saddened to hear that, hope she gets power back soon. Doesn't sound like any fun for her.
I was snowed in for spring break my freshman year of college. After five days of no power, 2.5 feet of snow as far as the eye could see and the only water in the house coming from buckets of snow we melted by the wood stove, I was done. A friend who also went to UNC lived closer to town on a highway that had been plowed and so I lied to my father about the condition of the roads around us to trick him into making it far enough that he might as well keep going as take me back and thus I caught a ride back to school. We ended up having to drive to Chapel Hill by way of Greenville, SC, and Charlotte, NC, in order to find a way that was passable. I actually kind of miss the occasional big snow like that but I am sending parsimon's mother warm, power-having vibes.
Unless she's a gypsy, that is.
and fussing over all the food in the fridge/freezer going bad.
The house can't be that cold if the food in the fridge is going bad. Your mom is clearly goldbricking you. I can just tell she's a bad mother.
187: I've lost power in the winter before and just transferred the freezer contents outside. Fridge is trickier, as you don't want it to all freeze.
Circus and carnival people of whatever ethnicity are not like us.
ONLY TWO THINGS TERRIFY ME AND ONE IS NUCLEAR WAR. THE OTHER IS CIRCUS FOLK. SMELL LIKE CABBAGE. SMALL HANDS.
It's an old joke, but in Minnesota your freezer is warmer than the outdoors. -17 F right now.
1.) The power thing sucks. I heard on teh radio that several gas stations were out of electricity, so they couldn't sell gas. People who owned generators were having a hard time getting fuel to run them.
2.) Re: Facebook
a. Is it possible to have two accounts. A non-profit that I'm volunteering for has an account, and they asked me to sign up. I'd like to keep my list of friends and my professional contacts separate.
b. My boyfriend's brother's fiancee befriended me. I don't feel that I can say "no," but I'd like to limit her access as much as possible. How do I do that?
It's an old joke, but in Minnesota your freezer is warmer than the outdoors. -17 F right now.
Yup, but -17 is ok for food. I know people in Canada who regularly use the deck or somewhere (e.g. in a big icebox) as extended freezer during the winter. When you get down to -30 or -40 you might not want do do this, I suspect.
There's a US fantasy comic, Castle Waiting, which is fairly critically praised and respected even in circles who don't like genre comics (It's published by Fantagraphics). In the first issues there's a plot of murderous gypsies stealing babies. No one's ever remarked on it apart from me, as far as I know.
I think I could really get into a comic about murderous gypsy-stealing babies.
191.a -- Yes. Use a variant of your name, and an email address different from the one your friends commonly use.
121 -- You need better friends.
195.2: Yeah, I'm being very careful about the people I befriend; all professional friends to date, which is probably why hardly anyone says anything interesting. Two separate identities isn't a bad idea, though I have to ask why I'm doing this Facebook thing in the first place if I find it kind of silly.
191.2 -- I think I would just delete him as a friend. Deletions don't cause a notification, and if/when he notices, claim misunderstanding of the software.
I've taken to threatening to sell my children to the circus, rather than anything Gypsy-related. That's how you can tell I'm a great father.
No, look, people. This isn't what you do. What you do is, you either threaten to send the kid to the Play-Doh factory--did you know that play-doh is made out of squished-up little kids? Well, it is, and the color depends on what color shirt they were wearing at the time--or, you threaten to just take them back to the store. I mean, why do you think they call it Babies R Us if they don't sell babies there?
B's suggestions are needlessly cruel and trauma-inducing. Why not just threaten to kill them and stuff them in the trashcan? At least kids sold to gypsies or carnies can have some kind of life.
I remember being threatened with being sold to the Eskimos, myself. Sounded kind of fun.
200: See, that's the point. Not only is there the "teaching your children to be racists" problem, there's also the problem that joining the circus sounds *fun*. Whereas when I pointed out Babies R Us to PK, he really was somewhat taken aback.
It's also true, by the way, that baby oil is made out of squished babies, just as olive oil is made out of squished olives.
Why not just threaten to kill them and stuff them in the trashcan?
The house we're trying to buy has a little weird cupboard in the stairwell to the basement, which my realtor calls the "naughty cupboard." (Her oldest was in PK's 1st grade class, which is how I met her.)
Child Protective Services can tell that B. is a *great* mother.
Child Protective Services can tell that B. is a *great* mother.
The house we're trying to buy has a little weird cupboard in the stairwell to the basement, which my realtor calls the "naughty cupboard."
I'm not sure the basement is the most convenient place to store sex toys, B. I guess it depends on the rest of the layout.
Why would I lock PK in with the sex toys? That's no kind of punishment.
If you've configured your dungeon correctly, surely there will be space for the toys down there, right? But the naughty cupboard could be used as storage for the overflow.