Yeah, that's pretty stupid. Now, if he'd called McManus "sweetie"? That shit would be hilarious.
Sterling Heights is nicknamed "Sterile Whites" by those in the Detroit metro area. It is not a very upscale area though.
Woof.
That's something I'd expect of McCain. Who the fuck is born in the 60s and talks like that (without being an asshole)?
I don't really think this proves he's an asshole, but jeez.
if he'd called McManus "sweetie"? That shit would be hilarious.
I was thinking Krauthammer, but the list of possibilities is long.
Agar comes off pretty well, I think, despite what looks a bit like bed-head.
Who the fuck is born in the 60s and talks like that (without being an asshole)?
Just about everybody born in the '60s south of the Mason-Dixon line, sugar.
Who...talks like that
I think it's a case of inattention to casual sexism and, in this case, at least, too much confidence in his own power to charm just by addressing someone "personally."
Have we found anyone yet who was outraged at Obama being called "boy" but is not troubled by him calling a woman reporter "sweetie"?
Just about everybody born in the '60s south of the Mason-Dixon line, sugar.
I was going to say, and I think you can date it later than that.
I think you can date it later than that
I started to leave the date out, but JRoth's question was specific.
8: Yep.
9: Must we try to make trouble?
Must we try to make trouble?
I'm more interested in seeing people make excuses.
I'm more interested in seeing people make excuses.
You should link to the people. The "boy" thing sounds vaguely familiar, but I don't really remember the details.
Excuses? How's this one: the reporter really was a sweetie!
To expand a bit:
The local "sweetie"-equivalent is "hon[ey]." It is a perfectly acceptable way for any waitresses to address any customer (although it rankles my MIL, funnily enough). It is only marginally acceptable coming from a grizzled old man, who is clearly trying to be friendly, not condescending. But for more or less unacceptable coming from anyone else.
More importantly, it's so plainly being used dismissively by Obama - he's not trying to be friendly, or to build rapport. He's blowing her off.
To wit: that is how I address Iris when she's bugging me while I'm on a work phone call. As a reminder, Iris is 4, and my daughter. That's more or less the limits of its acceptable use towards someone on the low end of a power relationship.
Ugh.
14: Almost everybody on our side objected to the boy thing (a KY leg called him that). So really, you just need to find someone defending/excusing "sweetie," and then track down his/her outrage over "boy."
That's more or less the limits of its acceptable use towards someone on the low end of a power relationship.
I think you're right that it's unacceptable, but I think a pretty broad range of men have pet names for their wives and/or girlfriends. (It's the forced intimacy, to me, that is the issue.)
19: I think JRoth's problem with it was not just the forced intimacy, but that it was being used dismissively; using a pet name for somebody you're intimate with in a dismissive way is kind of passive-aggresively cruddy, too.
Who the fuck is born in the 60s and talks like that (without being an asshole)?
every time i buy a sammich at the deli across the street, the woman behind the register calls me "sweetheart".
next time she does it, though, i'm going to lay into her for demeaning me and my gender, and for breaking the rules of polite social convention (which she probably doesn't know - but ignorance is no defense). she's gonna wish she'd never been born, after i'm done with her.
a KY leg
The marrow is where you get KY jelly from.
every time i buy a sammich at the deli across the street, the woman behind the register calls me "sweetheart".
The point being, she is serving you.
here in the South it is common among women to address everyone as "sweetie", "honey", etc... and no one complains. But what if Hillary had done it? I imagine lots of complaining. Evidence of annoying, unreal standards we have for P candidates.
and no one complains.
Because a critical mass of the women down here can't see the patriarchal cage that binds us.
Waitresses say, hon all the time and I don't find it offensive; they tend to be older women in diner-type places. I was at a Honda dealership where they were giving out free apples. After she gave one to a little girl, I looked up and the woman said, "Do you want one, hon?" I didn't really think about it.
Then some older dude came back and complained that she hadn't polished his apple. (She was polishing the others.)
Oh wait, I misread 25 as the women were being addressed, instead of doing the addressing. Yes, true, no one complains when women toss around sugar and sweetie.
COLUMBUS, Ohio (CNN) -- Sen. John McCain envisions that by 2013, the Iraq War will be won but the threat from the Taliban in Afghanistan won't yet be eliminated, even though Osama bin Laden will have been captured or killed.
And this man is a viable candidate for whom millions will cast their vote. 2013! The Ten Year War!
The issue is dismissiveness, #21 and #25.
in the hours that I'm not hating everyone, I kind of like the actions we take to create the fiction that we actually/like care about each other, as long as those actions don't involve the actual energy/time necessary to really understand and care for someone.
There is an interesting exception (I think) carved out for men who use "babe" in this way, as long as they use it gender-neutrally.
Doesn't everybody remember Obama grabbing Clinton on the airport tarmac "in order to calm her down?" The sexist incidents are accumulating.
Course it doesn't matter.
Then some older dude came back and complained that she hadn't polished his apple.
Low-hanging fruit. Really.
I catch myself using "What can I get you, dear" pretty frequently on my shift a week at my friends' cafe. I'll plead guilty to the casual sexism charge but it is very much a Southern thing, and really, a Southern-service thing. I think they call it "hospitality." However, I would know better than to be so casual with a professional I was blowing off.
I'm willing to bet that a lot of Americans regularly say things that we'd (rightly) consider unacceptable from a presidential candidate.
37: and a sickening double standard that is.
would know better than to be so casual with a professional I was blowing off
I just stubbed my toe on this fruit right here.
38: yeah, Barack can call the author of 37 "Bitch," but when he says that about Hillary ...
35: It really was. She wasn't young or anything, and he was kind of old with a beer belly. He didn't seem super bright, so I don't think that he was being lascivious. He just felt entitled.
41: lascivious and entitled go together like shiny and apples.
It'd've been funny -- and a heavy weight placed on an already straining fruit-tree branch -- if she'd spit polished it.
It would be so bizarre as to be almost endearing if Obama really tossed "sweetie" around indiscriminately like a southern waitress, to men and women alike. But somehow, I doubt that. Uncool.
38: Not necessarily. My point is that saying "southerners use 'sweetie' all the time" does not mean that it's not sexist when Obama does it to a female reporter.
In any case, Gonerill was looking for people who'd try to excuse it, and I guess he found 'em.
In any case, Gonerill was looking for people who'd try to excuse it, and I guess he found 'em.
He was looking for a smaller set than that, I think.
Why doesn't anybody ever object to John McCain's unwarranted intimacy? I'm not your friend, old man!
Argh. This truly irks me. He's what, 46 years old? Way too young for me to be willing to cut him some slack.
The apology bothers me too, in that it doesn't actually acknowledge that the "sweetie" did indeed convey a lack of respect. It's just a "bad habit" of his (that he picked up where, exactly?) and we're supposed to understand that he's working on it.
43: According to this news story, he *has* done it before. But I kind of doubt if "female reporter" and "female factory worker" counts as indiscriminate, yeah.
42: /i know, but he really seemed clueless. I said to the mother of the little girl who was sitting next to me, "I can't believe he just said that." Her reply was, "That's just like a man."
(that he picked up where, exactly?)
I'm going to take a wild flyer on "some mentor or other, probably one who's in Chicago politics and rather old-fashioned".
In any case, Gonerill was looking for people who'd try to excuse it, and I guess he found 'em.
Good reading, B.
FWIW, this is a dickish thing to do, but even as a supporter, I'm entirely willing to believe that Obama is dickish. He's a famously charismatic politician; except for hair metal guitarists, Young Republicans, and basketball players, I can't think of a demographic more suited to encouraged dickishness.
What? Obviously the fact that he's apologizing for using the term and calling it a "bad habit" counts as an acknowledgment of the transgression, right? It certainly wasn't an "I'm sorry if you were offended" type of apology.
It would be so bizarre as to be almost endearing if Obama really tossed "sweetie" around indiscriminately like a southern waitress, to men and women alike.
A guy only calls another guy "sweetie" if he wants to fight him.
Really, talking to northerners sometimes! You have to explain the American language to them, as if they came from France or something.
52: yeah, I read him as having a smartass streak that he successfully tamps down most of the time. If there's one thing I'm worried about, it's that this will keep him from doing as good a job as he should listening to people who criticize him. I'm not that worried, since he seems to be doing well with that so far, but anyhow.
OTOH, unlike Mary Catherine, I think his apology was a good one. "Bad habit" does pretty much imply that it was insulting.
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that between this and the apology to the college reporter, I think it was, for "stepping on your game" or something like that when the guy was trying to impress a girl? That Obama seems to be just a little bit of a studly cool guy. Which isn't particularly surprising in a good-looking man. And as we all know, studly cool guys sometimes say studly cool things that irritate the shit out of intelligent women.
That said, in terms of policy choices on women's issues, etc., I'm sure he'll be perfectly fine. Yes, it's too bad, especially given the race/gender stuff in this race anyway, but I don't think it's a mortal sin, especially because he has the class to apologize when he's called on it.
and basketball players
You were a skater, weren't you?
Looked up Michelle at Wikipedia for clues to Obama sexism. None found at all.
But wow they are very tightly connected to the University of Chicago. Now maybe that place isn't completely the Vatican of the Right, but having just read Rorty's little biographical sketch, he says UoC and Leo Strauss fucked him up for about a decade, and he ran away as fast as he could.
Could Obama be a Straussian?
It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
You were a skater, weren't you?
Not much of one. I listened to hair metal, though! WASP 4eva. (I was actually thinking of collegiate basketball, not merely recreational ballers. Why I think Joe Terp is somehow more dickish than Fred Irish is a mystery, but hey. I blame Duke.)
34: I hadn't heard about that until you mentioned it, so I looked around. Do you have any details about it? All I could find came directly or indirectly from Maureen Dowd.
There is an interesting exception (I think) carved out for men who use "babe" in this way, as long as they use it gender-neutrally.
No, hon, there isn't.
a KY leg
Eeeeewwwww.
You should read Celebration by Harry Crews, and I'll say no more on the topic.
(that he picked up where, exactly?)
As I understand it, there are pretty strong commonalities between black culture and Southern culture. So, ultimately, probably the same place Smasher picked it up.
Could Obama be a Straussian?
Almost certainly. He sat in on Tarcov's class on The Prince that I audited my last year at Chicago, and he had some pretty detailed ideas about the Discourses on Livy as well.
I have a couple of female bartender friends, and after I hang out with them for a while I start to call people "hon" and "sweetie." It's a bad habit for a middle-aged man to pick up, especially when he works next door to M. LeBlanc. So far I have avoided any slip of the tongue and subsequent disembowelment, but I do worry.
they are very tightly connected to the University of Chicago
Nothing to do with the economics department, though. Associate Dean of Student Services and Community Outreach Director for the hospital there.
I confess I have let the following familiar terms slip (this is a nonexhaustive list) without having thought through their deployment:
dear
honey
sparky
sport
champ
Pity that for politicians, everywhere is the workplace.
(I have, in addition, twice found myself holding hands with someone without having thought about it. But that was in the salad days of my youth.)
So far I have avoided any slip of the tongue and subsequent disembowelment, but I do worry.
Same sort of thing happened to me. Fortunately, it was when I was much younger. Unfortunately, I wasn't spared the disembowelment shortly thereafter.
I think of everybody here as dears and sweethearts.
sparky, sport, champ
I think I do/have done all of those. And normally, "big man," slips out. For some reason, I'm most embarrassed about "champ."
Ooh, "sparky" is a good one. I'm calling everyone sparky for the rest of the day.
Thanks, Sparky!
champ
Champ is a really great term. So is "Big hitter," especially outside of sports. C'mon, Big Hitter! I'm rooting for you.
68 shocks and amazes me.
70 doesn't, since apo's basically slept with everyone here.
"champ" "sport" and "pal" all have bad summer camp associations for me.
Maybe I should go back to addressing everyone as "sister"
Sport? Sparky? Champ? I had no idea so many of us here were Chets!
How about "ace"? That was big among the Chets I grew up with.
Maybe I should go back to addressing everyone as " soul sister"
68 shocks and amazes me.
I worked retail south of the Mason Dixon line. Maybe that helps explain it.
But I'm not sure that's entirely right; the phenomenon I was describing is about thinking of someone, privately, in familiar terms and then letting that slip into public discourse carelessly. Which is different from, "here are the stock phrases we use thoughtlessly where I come from."
79: Oh. Well then no, that's not shocking at all. Everyone does that, and it's not germane to the Obama thing anyway. If he called his wife 'sweetie' in public, that wouldn't be a problem.
I had no idea so many of us here were Chets! How about "ace"?
I never used "Ace." I am not, within the letter of the definition, a "Chet," but I confess to a slightly Chet-like set of early life experiences.
I don't think I've ever used sport, sparky, or champ 100% unironically.
And 71 is the real reason nobody has ever seen Tim and me in the same place at the same time.
If he called his wife 'sweetie' in public, that wouldn't be a problem.
No, I'm not talking about with one's wife, or partner, or child; I'm talking about with someone you're not supposed to address in those terms but might think about in those terms.
82: Like crushes on co-workers? You sly dog, you.
Well, if sweetie and dear are off the table, I guess I'm back to calling everybody bitches and hos.
I presume 65 was a joke.
67:I have been on the Wiki page for UoC. Obviously a great university with an amazing and admirable history. But it is not just the economics department that tends conservative, if you can call it conservative, but also perhaps the philosophy department. I am googling the historical faculty for patterns. And the core curriculum classics thing. I don't know, are there enduring University cultures?
I've used "kiddo" and then felt bad about it. I love -- absolutely love -- to use "coach" when I'm being dismissive.
Oh, yeah, "kiddo" definitely. Christ, my inner monologue is a Hardy Boys book.
I have never used an endearment in my life. I think I am incapable.
Okay, I call my dogs "the dudes."
Salutations I have been guilty of using on the job:
dude
buddy
mate
chief
boss (to superiors and subordinates alike)
counselor (with lawyers; they eat that shit up)
doctor (with PhD's; ditto)
young lady
Jungs
Mädchen
Mädels
les filles
I'm always longing to call some old guy or other "old timer", but have never worked up the guts to do so. When I'm an old timer, though, I will definitely use "young fella".
I have never used an endearment in my life.
You can call me sweetie, bob.
Yeah, I call people "babydoll" gender-indiscriminately. I think I got it from my grandmother. But only if I know them semi-well, which is redeeming. And also only if they're younger than me, which is not.
I have my southern + female pass, if anyone needs to see it.
You don't have to call me darling, darling.
You never even call me by my name.
I've found myself using sweetie on occasion with people I'm fond of but not intimate with in recent years. I do think it's kind of a kid-related thing.
Thank god, though, that I'm not a guy and have therefore not picked up any of the "sport, coach, bucko" stuff. (Calling PK "little man" doesn't count.) I don't know how you manage to keep from shrivelling and dying after saying those words.
When I'm an old timer, though, I will definitely use "young fella".
I love to call people "son" when I'm being condescending.
94: What's your name, little girl? What's your name?
I love to call people "son" when I'm being condescending.
Are you a law enforcement officer, a football coach, or a priest?
"Chief" is the only one of these diminutives for men that I have ever heard used by a guy who I liked even a tiny bit.
Why "chief"? Don't know.
95: Testosterone renders one able to withstand one's own unbearability.
I love -- absolutely love -- to use "coach" when I'm being dismissive.
So rewarding.
95: "cheech", "t-bone", "two-a-day", "zips", "doucheknuckles": these terms are the spice of life, cheese. How can you not use them?
And as we all know, studly cool guys sometimes say studly cool things that irritate the shit out of secretly attract intelligent women.
The "sweety" thing is annoying, but even worse is that it's used in the context of dismissing a Detroit reporter asking him how he's going to help auto workers! This is how a politician with a blue collar appeal problem acts in a crucial, tightly contested state?
Obama had better watch any tendency toward even a hint of arrogant swagger. I'm sure he sort of knows that. But the campaign trail is this relentless x-ray.
Oh, I use "boss" all the time for superiors and underlings alike. And I use "brother" and "sister" with the addressed's last name, especially when I can't remember the Christian name. "Captain" is one I use frequently, also.
Ooh, I forgot "hoss". I don't use that one dismissively.
I have found that I have a real urge -- not sure where it came from -- to call people, male and female, things like sweetie, honey, sweet cheeks, and so on, when I want to be a particular genre of snotty. "Look, SWEETIE, I get it already." I think I mostly manage to suppress it, though.
Sport and sparky are good additions to the (obnoxious) set.
"little man"
Oh, gawd, that's another one I use. And I feel like I call w-lfs-n and teo "youngling" from time to time.
"Captain" is one I use frequently, also.
Try mein Kommandant, accompanied by jumping to attention and loudly clicking the heels of your shoes together. Bosses *love* that.
I have called my dean and department chair "boss."
I know I have never given in on "sweet cheeks." But it's really so exquisitely obnoxious.
And I use "brother" and "sister" with the addressed's last name, especially when I can't remember the Christian name.
Also effective: adopt an ironic stentorian pose and refer to "my distinguished colleague from [co-worker's home state]..."
110: When Holly Hunter plays you as a rule-breaking spitfire, she will say "sweet cheeks" and "sparky."
I love to call people "son" when I'm being condescending.
I have a real urge -- not sure where it came from -- to call people, male and female, things like sweetie, honey, sweet cheeks, and so on, when I want to be a particular genre of snotty.
You know, that I'm all-but-positive I've never done. I don't know that I've heard that many guys (consciously) do that, either. (Come to that, I haven't actually heard any women do it that I can remember.) I wonder (sincerely) if that difference is a function of a different risk of getting decked.
Obama had better watch any tendency toward even a hint of arrogant swagger.
Yeah, like whistling at a woman in a grocery store....
(Harsh, and certainly not directed at you PGD.)
113: Actually, I take that back. Maybe I have done that. I can't remember when, but maybe on Unfogged. (w-lfs-n's magic computer powers notwithstanding, little risk of getting decked.)
But it is not just the economics department that tends conservative, if you can call it conservative, but also perhaps the philosophy department. I am googling the historical faculty for patterns. And the core curriculum classics thing. I don't know, are there enduring University cultures?
Of course. Chicago's defining features are (1) No sports teams, so all status competition is intellectual, (2) Intense (german-inspired) research culture coupled with rejection of Ivy League sensibilities, (3) Geographical location in the middle of America, in the most American of cities. Together, these tend to produce a high proportion of home-grown intellectual crusaders. E.g., there are Chicago Schools in Economics, Sociology; it's the home of American Pragmatism, etc. When this model fails, you get colorful or obnoxious weirdos with bees in their bonnets who believe themselves to be at the center of the relevant bit of intellectual life. When it succeeds, you get colorful, often obnoxious weirdos with bees in their bonnets who actually are at the center of their relevant bit of intellectual life.
"Youngling"?!? That's nasty.
109 is fine. I've done that. (Therefore.) Of course I way overuse "dude." Somewhere I seem to have picked up the occasional "buddy."
Other occasional weirdnesses: with women friends--"woman," "chick," "lady," "chica." With significant others or PK: "beautiful" or, alternately, "ugly." "Dear" is always lightly sarcastic.
little risk of getting decked dicked
Only a little bit funny, I understand.
w-lfs-n's magic computer powers notwithstanding, little risk of getting decked.
Yes, it's more tempting online.
113: I think Apo's right--this kind of thing is done by women and (by extension) gay men. Straight guys don't do it, generally, but I suspect that's less out of fear of getting decked than just b/c the consciousness of condescending endearments as such isn't as front-and-center in y'all's minds.
That and you probably don't get condescended to as often.
Straight guys don't do it, generally, but I suspect that's less out of fear of getting decked than just b/c the consciousness of condescending endearments as such isn't as front-and-center in y'all's minds.
That and you probably don't get condescended to as often.
Not buying it.
Straight guys don't do it, generally, but I suspect that's less out of fear of getting decked than just b/c the consciousness of condescending endearments as such isn't as front-and-center in y'all's minds.
I don't understand that sentence.
Note that Obama's main economic advisor is from Chicago GSB, which is basically an extension of the econ department. However, Chicago econ is much less of a distinct place than it used to be.
116 is a superb summary of the classic Chicago thing.
119: In context, I seem like I was being nasty to Becks, which I wasn't meaning to.
The boys, though? Fuck 'em.
When Holly Hunter plays you as a rule-breaking spitfire, she will say "sweet cheeks" and "sparky."
Nonsense. rfts will be portrayed by Martina Gedeck, and her character will be a tempermental intellectual with a fierce tongue and a touch of tendresse. Her favorite term of endearment will be "my beloved", and her preferred ironic putdown will be "my good fellow".
122: Really?
123: What I meant basically is that I think (as per the links in Tweety's 119) that women use endearments-as-sarcasm/condescension pretty often, in part, because (rightly or wrongly) we often feel like we're being condescended to. That plus since the norm for women-in-argument is to be "nicer" than men, if you're being condescending, it might come across as sincerely womanly niceness, which is definitely not what one wants in that circumstance.
Or, y'know, maybe it's just me.
95
I've found myself using sweetie on occasion with people I'm fond of but not intimate with in recent years. I do think it's kind of a kid-related thing.
Either B. is using the phrase "intimate with" in a sense I haven't seen since Victorian literature, or she's confessing to something surprising.
Or, y'know, maybe it's just me.
Now I buy it!
I think that women use endearments as sarcasm because we can skate a finer line with it. We can say it perfectly ambiguously, leaving the other person to wonder if they're imagining the hostility or not.
that women use endearments-as-sarcasm/condescension pretty often, in part, because (rightly or wrongly) we often feel like we're being condescended to.
I still think it's the getting decked thing.
121- Women and gay guys do it because it rarely affects the symmetric balance. It often does with straight guys.
I can call you Betty, and Betty when you call me, you can call me Al.
128: Partly the former (I don't get the latter) but, e.g., I can imagine calling Slol "sweetie" in a careless way (and then being embarrassed, as it ill suits his urbanity), even though I don't actually know him terribly well.
When I use terms of endearment, it's my inner gay man clawing his way to the surface. Granted, it doesn't really take that much clawing.
Honey, your outer straight man is bad enough.
134: "not intimate with in recent years ... it's a kid-related thing." Intimate with kids? Not in the Victorian sense of the word?
Hey, I never said it was a good joke.
(and then being embarrassed, as it ill suits his urbanity)
Once he calls you "sparky" though, this concern is moot.
Honey, your outer straight man is bad enough.
Thanks, Chuckles.
||
Hmm. I really just wanted to pop by and share the exciting news that I finally signed up for the crazy blind date thing. (Still remains for me to actually go through with the date part, but baby steps... ) Of course, deciding which recent post to throw this under, well...
I must say, the questions are like totally designed with this place in mind -- how would you feel about a partner licking your butt? anything can be the subject of a joke: agree or disagree? And so forth. I didn't get to the swimming questions yet, but I know they are there!
|>
Get it? "Straight man". Pun. Ha.
how would you feel about a partner licking your butt?
Well?
142: That question was directed at the lawyers.
Sign up on CBD and you can get an answer, B.
135- I'm pretty sure you told me once that it was an inner trainy woman.
Chicago's defining features are (1) No sports teams, so all status competition is intellectual
Wait, aren't they in the UAA with CMU?
Tartans vs. Maroons is the game of the year, let me tell you.
Or maybe you just meant no talented teams.
Once he calls you "sparky" though, this concern is moot.
Easy there, champ.
The thing I've been called most consistently by strangers is "slim," most often by 50+ African-American men on the street. When offered in a friendly, rather than salacious, spirit, I quite like it. I feel like I could legitimately walk into the next pool hall I see.
147: You're right, but more people follow IM sports than the actual teams.
I have a co-worker who calls me "sparky" sometimes. Now that he's a daddy, I call him Papa G. I call my friends "slice" and "slice dog." Down with the gente? I am the gente, babycakes.
The boys, though? Fuck 'em.
how would you feel about a partner licking your butt?
Well?
Dr. B, is Mr. B. traveling again? Boyfriend not around?
140: That questionnaire seems pretty well thought out. I mean, incompatibility on the butt-licking question seems likely to stress a relationship pretty severely, if not doom it outright.
I call my friends "slice"
Cue John McEnroe.
143: There was also "do you believe in the power of prayer?"
151 is proof you've been married too long, Di. Everybody's eating ass these days. It's a first-date thing.
I am the gente, babycakes.
Seriously, you are the whitest person I know.
Obviously, Obama hates women, Christians, Jews, and white people.
Can his coalition of male colored Muslims put him over the top in November? Find out on FOX!
151: More and better particulars, please.
I've been called "Sarge" by a friendly street wino.
Wait, aren't they in the UAA with CMU? Or maybe you just meant no talented teams.
I meant no teams of any importance, yes. I know they have a few teams (even some good ones). But college sports are de-emphasized there as a point of pride.
147: Deprecation of Div III athletics is deprecated.
Chicago did of course make the big choice in the '39 to '46 timeframe to drop football and move out of the Big Ten.
149- In my red-neck upbringing, men called each other that often.
Seriously, you are the whitest person I know.
It's like we're brothers, cuz.
Oh, and if there wasn't a Seinfeld episode where Jerry accidentally called a woman "honey," there SHOULD have been.
158: You are just trying to scare me off of this "getting back out there" idea, aren't you?
I am really remarkably averse to assholes.
Everybody's eating ass these days.
Weeell....
Somewhat related, when I sign up for something and there are more titles to choose from than Mr, Mrs, Ms, I like to go all out. I generally skip right by "Father" and "The Honorable" and use "Admiral."
I am really remarkably averse to assholes.
You made some unfortunate career choices, then. [rimshot].
I believe I shall have to start calling Sir Kraab "New Jersey Slim".
162: hey! That was mu answer to "what are you looking for in a date?"
It's sportsist to deprecate the U of Chicago teams. We're all winners. Everyone is special.
I am really remarkably averse to assholes
Hence the divorce. Good luck with the CBD.
169: I'm partly kidding, but it's been sprung on me (as recipient) quite a few times during a first encounter. (Not the current, though. He's a gentleman.)
I think AWB is basically right on this. Eating ass is the new third base.
when I sign up for something and there are more titles to choose from than Mr, Mrs, Ms, I like to go all out. I generally skip right by "Father" and "The Honorable" and use "Admiral."
Order some tickets to the Vienna Opera and go to town, then!
(Anyway, you've got a title built right into your name.)
White Bear channels her inner Hitchens.
It's a first-date thing.
Isn't everything these days? I imagine setting aside time after dessert and before coffee, for a bitter argument over custody of the kids, too.
Eating ass is the new third base.
No, cunnilingus is third base. Going further south is "stealing home".
I don't stand a fighting chance out there, do I? I suppose I'd be safe if I stuck to germophobes -- but that would also rule out bringing them back to my place.
if I stuck to germophobes
That would probably gross them out.
Is it our job to terrify Di with urban legends?
Does she know that 37% of the guys in her age group are cannibalism-curious?
185: You could just try not to have a delicious ass.
Deprecation of Div III athletics is deprecated.
Hey, none coming from me. I'm not the one who described Div III teams as nonexistent.
Further, I was this close to mentioning that the CMU football team lost something like 3 regular season games in the 5 years I attended. One of my classmates was a lineman; hella nice guy.
Actually, right after I graduated, there was a concerted effort (which included sports paying-attention-to) to develop a sense of campus spirit. It seemed to be fairly successful, which was a really weird concept to me.
"Admiral Slim" kind of has a nice ring to it too . . .
I don't stand a fighting chance out there, do I?
Now, now, Di, I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there who would be happy to refrain from licking your ass.
I suppose this is sorta outdated, but "Skip" works pretty well for both a term of respect or condescending, depending on how you say it and to whom.
Skip is short for Skipper and in my distant youth many coaches loved the nickname, imagining (I suppose) themselves the captain of our youth baseball team or whatever.
Alan Hale kinda ruined the "Skipper" image for all time though.
I am really remarkably averse to assholes.
The hole is greater than the sum of the parts.
cunnilingus is third base
Are you kidding? Oral sex is the new first base.
Oral sex is the new first base.
Oh, see, I thought oral was the new handshake. Maybe I'll be alright after all.
Stealing second, then? My guess is Di has picked off a lot of runners.
196: no, no. Fisting is the new handshake.
No, getting molested in a cab is first base, intercourse is second, oral-genital/anal contact is third, and home is, uh, planning a second date?
Fisting is the new handshake.
Bump it.
Life was much simpler when getting abducted from your village was first base.
199- Called me old-school or sparky, but intercourse will always be home for me.
My guess is Di has picked off a lot of runners.
I've thrown my share of no-hitters, believe you me.
206: The always say they will, but do they?
It's just a "bad habit" of his (that he picked up where, exactly?) and we're supposed to understand that he's working on it.
Bad habits like this can come from almost anywhere. I am lucky that my stupid diminutive of choice is 'kiddo' and that it's not particularly gendered.
But it's not hard to believe that while it's unbelievably inappropriate, it didn't result from an unusually sexist upbringing or a sekrit Islamic madrassah teacher.
Maybe I'm a prude, but I won't blow someone I haven't fucked.
I think we owe the mainstreaming of eating ass to Owen Wilson, or to celebrity gossip culture. Whichever. His apologia that there's "more than one path to the waterfall" is a philosophical classic.
Oral sex is the new first base.
I hear all the women out there want tiramisu these days.
The always say they will, but do they?
They might, if you licked their butts.
Fisting is the new handshake.
I no longer regret not having attended any of the meetups.
Next somebody's going to tell me it's sexist to mutter "nice move, chickadee" when a woman driver does something stupid.
I've thrown my share of no-hitters, believe you me.
Well, the important thing is not to give up the easy run on the sacrifice bunt.
From what I understand, Di's exes have a cumulatively low batting average and high on base percentage, n'est-ce pas?
Okay, here's a question I found intriguing: "Would you ever consider having sex in a church?"
Maybe I'm a prude...
I think we can safely discount that possibility, AWB.
I've thrown my share of no-hitters, believe you me.
If you're a-courtin' Miss Di, make sure the pine tar isn't too high on your bat.
I have been very good this past year.
215: Um, batting average would be... But on base percentage suggests... Arg, ANALOGY BAN!
Maybe I'm a prude, but I won't blow someone I haven't fucked.
Interesting. My roommate in college had a boyfriend who wouldn't have intercourse, because he didn't want there to be any possibility of her getting pregnant. He got plenty of blow jobs though.
So delightful as I'm sure the present company is, isn't hepatitis B a real risk, or is protracted nuzzling being described? I just know you all are being funny.
221: Replace the "got" with "gave" and he's not an irredeemable cad...
I no longer regret not having attended any of the meetups.
My Alter Ego, people are reasonably socialized in person.
221: That's exactly it. Frankly, I'm a lot less nervous about intercourse than I am about what someone might do during a blowjob, so one wants to get a sense of what kind of individual one is dealing with first. Someone who is a bad lay will probably not be sensitive to the oral-sex-giver's needs.
the mainstreaming of eating ass
Oh gawd, what if the social conservatives are right?
I haven't read most of this thread, but every single clerk or checkout person in every newstand or grocery store or whatever in New York calls me "sweetie," at least by the second visit if not immediately. Should I be offended?
225, cont'd, I have had a lot worse experiences with oral sex, though, and am terrified of suffocation.
227: Only if they don't offer to lick your ass, apparently...
223: He's not, though he did break up with his high school girlfriend the weekend that she came to visit Freshman year.
I'm sure she got plenty too, though they were always at his place, because he had a single. I just remember that she had a crazy pregnancy scare even though they had never had penetrative sex.
Should I be offended?
No. You should offer analingus.
Oh gawd, what if the social conservatives are right?
Apparently, I'm not socially conservative and therefore have to unreservedly support eating ass. Stop being so prudish.
Next somebody's going to tell me it's sexist to mutter "nice move, chickadee" when a woman driver does something stupid.
Well, sure. "Chickadee" implies that a woman is a fragile little bird who can't fend for herself. The phrase you're looking for is "you dumb broad."
(If anyone ever actually called me a "broad," I think I would collapse into hysterical laughter at its quaintness.)
"Chickadee" implies that a woman is a fragile little bird who can't fend for herself drive.
I just remember that she had a crazy pregnancy scare even though they had never had penetrative sex.
That would suck. Not only would it feel like the universe was cheating, you'd be the stock example for zillions of youth group kids on why they should wait till marriage to kiss.
I just remember that she had a crazy pregnancy scare even though they had never had penetrative sex.
Interesting.
people are reasonably socialized in person
Fisting is the new "reasonably socialized."
I no longer regret not having attended any of the meetups.
Your fear of a little social intercourse is just another sad sign of the decline of civility.
The phrase you're looking for is "you dumb broad."
Not pardonable but more entertaining with a New Jersey accent.
So delightful as I'm sure the present company is, isn't hepatitis B a real risk, or is protracted nuzzling being described? I just know you all are being funny.
lw, The risk from rimming is hepatitis A. Hepatitis B is much more contagious. I think you can get it from kissing.
Nowadays kids automatically get vaccinated against Hepatitis B. I never did, so I decided to go to a local clinic that has a free state-funded program on a walk-in basis. This particular clinic focuses on treating LGBT people, so I also got a jab for Hepatitis A. Hepatitis A vaccination is generally only necessary for health care workers who are likely to have contact with blood, men who have sex with men or people traveling to certain countries. So, I'm set when I want to go to a developing country.
I just remember that she had a crazy pregnancy scare even though they had never had penetrative sex.
The mother of one of my HS girlfriends told her that women in her family were extremely fertile and that she (the mother) had gotten pregnant the first time without having penetrative sex. Even at the time, I was savvy enough to recognize this as the scare tactic it was, but I had no luck convincing the GF. In retrospect, I have to wonder whether the GF really believed it, or whether it just provided a convenient excuse.
234, 235: Yeah, it is pretty much limited to the little birds who can't drive. Not so much fragile as flitty, though.
Your fear of a little social intercourse is just another sad sign of the decline of civility.
I'm all for intercourse. It's the fisting that I've got a problem with.
"Slim Broad" would make a great stage name.
242: Hilarious, but my mom told me the opposite, that women in my family were very hard to get pregnant. I actually think it might be true, as it's frankly miraculous that I've never gotten knocked up, but I think her ploy was to make me start trying for babies as soon as possible, or screw it up and accidentally have one. Damn, she wants a little AWB so bad, she'd cheat and lie to get one.
Further to 242, I just now realized that there was probably a deeper history to this particular tall tale than just scaring the daughter into chastity. The oldest mother became pregnant with the oldest brother before she was married, and it's quite possible that the mother continued to maintain to her own parents, 30 years after the fact, that she went to the altar a pregnant virgin because of an improbable accident.
unreservedly support eating ass.
Not unexpected, after your support for fluoridated water.
244- Just curious. Are you male or female?
A good friend of mine is Roman Catholic. Her parents are mostly pretty liberal, but she recounted about her mother which I think was totally in earnest. Her mother said, "M, you know how your father and I feel about premarital sex, but you should know that the women in our family are extremely fertile." I think her mother got knocked up with her older brother on her honeymoon.
Chickadees are very hardy and thrive on -30 F weather. They're tiny and I don't know how they do it.
231.---Yah, I see that the thread has moved on to more important matters.
Are you male or female?
Neither, he's Buddhist.
I just went over to Drum's, where the top post is titled "Munich! Munich! Munich!" and...of course you know how I read it....
246: Couldn't you have a baby for her in return for cash and babysitting? Have Di write you up a contract.
254: Much better that way. "Bush Still an Asshole" really isn't very interesting.
249: He's male, though there was one time when I thought he was a lesbian. I have a good memory, but I suck at googling quickly.
Damn, she wants a little AWB so bad, she'd cheat and lie to get one.
Let's never get our mothers in the same room; they'd start some sort of pyramid scheme of baby lust. My mother is hinting, and my little sister sends me IMs that say 'dude you preggo yet? why not? i want a niece!'
258: "Hon, you have a uterus. Use it!"
"Chickadee" implies that a woman is a fragile little bird who can't fend for herself.
Never heard anybody use that; sounds like W.C. Fields to me.
Chickadees are tough. One of the early entries in A Sand County Almanac is a remembrance of the four-year life of a banded Chickadee that Leopold watched from his shack in Wisconsin.
My mother is hinting
Hinting doesn't even count. My mom regularly tells me that she wants a grandchild, post haste.
but I suck at googling quickly.
I didnt read the entire thread, but this counts as first base, right?
though there was one time when I thought he was a lesbian
Wow, that's awesome. I don't remember that.
One of my favorite Woody Allen one-liners is "I'm a lesbian trapped inside a man's body."
Damn, she wants a little AWB so bad, she'd cheat and lie to get one.
I'm crazy fertile, AWB, and we would have about a 90% chance of making a redheaded white bear. If we start the travel planning now, you could have it by next Mother's Day, and your mother would think you were the best daughter evar.
But it is not just [Chicago's] economics department that tends conservative, if you can call it conservative, but also perhaps the philosophy department.
This is a late response and perhaps just contraindicated troll feeding, but I want to call bullshit on this. I suspect McManus is drawing an inference from the fact that there are people in Chicago's philosophy department who work on Hegel and ev psych, but that doesn't give any indication of their politics. I know about a third of them personally, and most of the rest by reputation and by work. They are, in the main, straight-up academic left-liberals. The exceptions I'm aware of are: (1) a gay libertarian who claims to disdain politics, and (2) someone who until recently was a member of the Socialist Workers' Party. (Maybe Bart Schultz is conservative; I don't know much about him.)
I agree with I Don't Pay that Chickadee implies that the girl is tough.
My dad the Ob/gyn regularly tries to convince BR to get pregnant.
OK Sorry for forgetting which liver-destroying speedy killer is A and which is B. Still, fear of Hepatitis is not like being snitty about using unrinsed silverware at a friend's house, I just don't get how this can be recreational. People get innoculated to do this (donor, right, recipient's innoculation doesn't matter)? A barrier? But doesn't that spoil things? And there's a whole host of hygeine questions--- I guess I'm showing myself to be out of touch with young people's tastes.
Flying birds and insects are mostly mitochondrion by weight. If you plot mean lifetime heartbeats vs body mass for animals w/ 4-chambered hearts, flying birds a distant outlier.
Chickadees come to Minnesota in the winter for the warmth.
268: He's that hard up for business, huh?
Ogged, AWB, make your mothers happy and milk tham for everything they've got.
A barrier? But doesn't that spoil things?
Just the flavor.
Will's friend the divorce lawyer tries to get the BR and Will married.
out of touch with young people's tastes
Heh. Indeed.
We were assured by a commenter just recently that it's not a big deal.
I used to know a polymorphous perverse guy who kept track of his various infections. There were close to 20, I think. It was like he sort of enjoyed being a human Petri dish.
Just the flavor.
You can get flavored barriers, apo.
though there was one time when I thought he was a lesbian.
Wow, that's awesome. I don't remember that.
One of my favorite Woody Allen one-liners is "I'm a lesbian trapped inside a man's body."
MAE, It was a thread in which people were trying to convince me that I wasn't totally unmarriageable just because my family's crazy. You had accidentally left off part of your web site in your handle, so I went to myalterego.blogspot.com instead of myalteregospeaks.blogspot.com.
I said that I'd be a lot more reassured by your comments if you were a man. Then you went to check "your" website.
Sweetie is straight out. This much is clear. What's the consensus on sugartits?
Di, you know those questions aren't an at all important part of the CBD date assigning process, right? Actually, I guess I don't know that they're not, I just have good reason to believe it.
281: "So I'm assuming you won't mind if I just get down here and.... hey! Hey! Stop kicking me!"
What's the consensus on sugartits?
Hooray!
||
The woman behind that MySpace teenage suicide case has been indicted
|>
281: Either way, they're entertaining the hell out of me. In fact, I may just skip the date altogether and stay home answering the questionnaire!
This is bizarre phrasing:
"This was a tragedy that did not have to happen," O'Brien said. Both the girl and MySpace are named as victims in the case, he said.
281 -- They fixed you up with an ass-licker, didn't they?
Just the flavor
Oh, OK. Are there custom-made strawberry-menthol fittings? Answered by 277, thanks. Do people just use condoms? saran? Are there special piercings that you damn kids get to signal whatever pagan degradation you're into?
Also, if I remember right, being adventurous means you don't always have handy access to getting cleaned up every day-- this seems like an idea just as stupid as tongue piercing. Oh, wait....
The woman behind that MySpace teenage suicide case has been indicted
Yikes. She's a horrible person and I'd be happy to see her in jail, but this prosecution makes me very nervous.
Hinting doesn't even count. My mom regularly tells me that she wants a grandchild, post haste.
In my mom's case it seems to be a mental battle between rival conceptions of me: 'My daughter, the upcoming star professor" (n.b. mom's ideas not representative of reality)vs. "My daughter, bearer of adorable babies whom I could cuddle while she was off doing whatever professors do."
They fixed you up with an ass-licker, didn't they?
Close, Di. Very close.
It's not the ass-licking itself that matters, here. What really matters is whether you're game or not. Are you all "Hell, why not?" or are you "OMG someone who wants to put his tongue in my ass can never respect my mind." Both are legitimate responses, but probably very different sorts of daters. Like, I'd be tempted to date Di. She's a fox. But then I'd be all drunk or something and start playfully nibbling on her butt, and it would be all over for yrs trly. Another no-hitter for Di! Sigh.
290: Why does it make you nervous?
I only offer this as open source advice, to the community, but I have had good luck with equine diminutives; even in quite professional contexts, few women seem to mind being addressed as "you cheeky mare" or "you daft mare", in context, viz "Have you checked that against the latest vol curve?" "Course I have, you cheeky mare". There is, however, no direct parallel for "sweetie" that doesn't offend.
294: INTERNET COMMENTER DRIVEN TO SUICIDE BY ANGRY MUSLIM.
I also got a jab for Hepatitis A.... So, I'm set when I want to go to a developing country lick someone's ass.
You can get flavored barriers, apo.
Not ass-flavored, M/tch.
Why does it make you nervous?
Because on one reading, she's being prosecuted for what she wrote. That's not what she's charged with, but....
I have had good luck with equine diminutives; even in quite professional contexts, few women seem to mind being addressed as "you cheeky mare" or "you daft mare"
And yet, when I address women as "you frisky little filly" or "you old nag", they invariably get upset.
"Horse-faced cunt" meets with mixed success.
"OMG someone who wants to put his tongue in my ass can never respect my mind."
Not that at all -- it's more like, "The germs! OMG, you don't really think you're going to kiss me after your mouth has been down there?!!"
Like, I'd be tempted to date Di... But then I'd be all drunk or something and start playfully nibbling on her butt, and it would be all over for yrs trly.
See, I was going to say that if I ever were to switch teams, I'd be giving you a call, but now I know you are a drunken butt-nibbler. Alas, even my hypothetical, switch-hitting non-romances are a total bust.
299
Because on one reading, she's being prosecuted for what she wrote. That's not what she's charged with, but...
Even on that reading, she's not being prosecuted for advocacy or opinions or the stuff the First Amendment is aimed at, but for misrepresenting herself with hurtful* intent. And maybe most importantly of all, note that she's not being sentenced, just indicted. I don't know how accurate the ham sandwich joke is, but you're at least two or three steps removed from an infringement on freedom of speech.
* I'd say "malicious" or "negligent," but those are technical terms and I was an English major so what do I know.
I've actually never analingued anyone, but I fear I am unpredictable. Keep me on the list!
303: Dude, I see no free speech issue here, if that's the worry. Fire? Crowded theater?
"Hello, I'm Drunken Butt-Nibbler."
"Of the Connecticut Butt-Nibblers?"
you're going to kiss me after your mouth has been down there
I'm neither here nor there on butt stuff, so I don't have any strong partisan positions, but you're several orders of magnitude more likely to catch something from somebody's mouth or hands than their butt.
you're several orders of magnitude more likely to catch something from somebody's mouth or hands than their butt.
Or so Sistani would have you believe.
That's how it always goes. You go for years on the straight and narrow, but then at the worst possible time you find yourself analinguing.
307: I've briefed the food-borne illness cases. I know what evils lie in feces. But, to be safe, I will also be requiring my dates to use hand sanitizer and rinse with listerine before any intimate contact. Because I am a wild thing like that!
Well, I do have a bad habit of not really asking for consent before I do stuff in bed.
299: This does strike me as a matter better handled by the civil litigation process, up to and including civil liability for wrongful death. But the combination of selective prosecution, an unprecedentedly expansive reading of a seldom-used statute, and a federal prosecution in a case where the state declined to prosecute* should raise red flags even in an administration I trusted, and obviously this one can't be trusted.
*Didn't all those conditions apply to the federal civil rights prosecutions of segregationist murderers? Why yes, they did. But that was the Johnson administration, so I'm cool with that.
Don't you secretly find a little filthiness in bed sorta hot, Di? It's really that big of a turn-off? Maybe I just hunt down transgression wherever I can get it, and body-smells (healthy body-smells, of course) are a big part of why sex is enjoyable for me.
for analingus, use disinfectant wipes. And be showered. That is all.
Well, I do have a bad habit of not really asking for consent before I do stuff in bed.
"Besides, I couldn't really understand their answers through the duct tape."
Get a room, girls. And bring Ogged along to inseminate AWB (two birds with one stone).
Okay, further question from the out-of-the-scene-too-long category: What do people actually verbally ask for consent to? I would think that most things you could just proceed with due attentiveness to verbal or non-verbal objections?
KR's joking aside, I really don't think I'd be comfortable doing it, and I'm not sure I'd want to receive it either.
Tangentially related-
A Christian group out of San Diego has found grounds for outrage over the new retro-style logo for Starbucks Coffee.The Resistance says the new image "has a naked woman on it with her legs spread like a prostitute," Mark Dice, founder of the group, said in a news release. "Need I say more?
No, Mr. Dice, you do not.
I think you're supposed to ask consent to massage someone's prostate. I just go on the cue "Well, he doesn't seem to be wriggling away..." You should probably get verbal consent of some kind for PIV, like, at least, a discussion of condom-usage.
316: I have fewer and fewer hangups as I grow old. But buttholes remain a very definite hangup. (I was kidding about the hand sanitizer and lsiterine!)
320: "Should I make noises, or does that offend you?"
"Should I lie here with my eyes shut and my teeth clenched, or do you need to feel that I'm enjoying it?"
"How long can you hold your breath under water?"
Maybe I just hunt down transgression wherever I can get it,
Of course, if everyone hunted down transgression wherever they could find it, there wouldn't be any limits left for you to transgress.
What do people actually verbally ask for consent to?
Having drinking buddies over to watch.
323: What the hell? Those aren't even legs.
http://www.startribune.com/photos/?c=y&img=2bucks.jpg
there wouldn't be any limits left for you to transgress.
AWB is creative, Mary Catherine. You insult her.
300, 301: I get away with a lot more that you types because I have a slight Northern-showbiz-camp (look it up, you American bastards) thing going on when I am doing my special professional worky voice, like I did on that disastrous radio interview.
Nah, I'm a middling innovator. Mostly I'm sorta vanilla, but I just have a lot of fun enjoying the details.
330- When I look at that logo, I think of all sorts of adult kinks.
So back to topic, because I have little to say on the analingus issue, while "I'm duly chastened" seems pro forma and weak, but "that's a bad habit of mine" and "I mean no disrespect" seem to signal that he does understand why it's a problem. Also, personally calling to apologize? Classy.
Contrast Geoff Davis's using "boy" in reference to Obama and then apologizing with "my poor choice of words ... was in no way meant to impugn you or your integrity." I actually think Davis' mistake was relatively innocent, more about Obama's youth than about his race (though when brains try to make words come out of mouths, a shit-ton of mental associations are involved in the process), but Davis actually was trying to impugn Obama -- just not trying to be racist about it!
because I have little to say on the analingus issue
Dude, don't you have, like, three wives, two of whom are guys? If not Pork-Lust, then who?
Yeah, I thought "That's a bad habit" was pretty classy, and makes it obvious that this is just a way of talking that means well, but is old-fashioned in a bad way. When I'm feeling particularly conciliatory to a student, I'll often use playful terms like that---honey, sweetie, etc. I know it's condescending, but, in that very localized case (which isn't on TV and isn't between two professionals), I think we all know what I'm doing.
Other ways of dealing with a bad habit.
Barkley has made no secret of his gambling over the years. He estimated during a May 2006 interview with ESPN that he'd gambled away about $10 million over the years.
"Do I have a gambling problem? Yeah, I do have a gambling problem," Barkley said. "But I don't consider it a problem because I can afford to gamble."
He said he never bet on basketball, and only bet in casinos. He called it a bad habit, but said he intended to continue.
336: Pffft. One wife and a couple of hopeless crushes.
Besides, I have a coworker who reads unfogged, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't need to know the details of my analingual history.
338 is sort of how I feel about unfogged.
338 is sort of how I feel about unfogged analingus.
338: Gawd, that's depressing. Spree's bankrupt, I think.
Look muchachos, I don't know jack about chickadees. I'm glad to know they're tough little cookies. I just wanted to bring 'broad' into the conversation.
In my mom's case it seems to be a mental battle between rival conceptions of me: 'My daughter, the upcoming star professor" (n.b. mom's ideas not representative of reality)vs. "My daughter, bearer of adorable babies whom I could cuddle while she was off doing whatever professors do."
I have so much sympathy for your mom. I've promised PK--repeatedly--that I'll happily raise any kids he helps create, even though I know that the sad, sad truth is that when he gets to that point he probably won't let me. Sniff.
Re. the Starbucks logo, to be fair to the Christian conservatives, the split-tail mermaid is most definitely obscene, which is in fact why Starbucks changed its logo when it went mainstream.
And re. the MySpace lady, I kind of agree with Ogged that this is a case where someone obviously did something awful and horrible and they cast about desperately searching for a reason to put her in jail. Which, I dunno if I really think that the authorities oughta be doing stuff like that.
OTOH, I don't see why "harassment and bullying unto suicide" shouldn't be illegal, frankly.
I've promised PK--repeatedly--that I'll happily raise any kids he helps create....
You know, guys can put out several a year.
On the other hand, the single tail bare-breasted mermaid is a horrible tease.
I have never used an endearment in my life. I think I am incapable
it's very easy in my language you just add some 'the' article like suffixes (min') to all things you want to endear
for example, you say 'apo min' which means 'my apo' since he permitted you to call him sweetie
but it could be that one is embarassed to say the word, then just substitute it with min'
like 'my son, my chair, my something'
Re: Starbucks -- It's the fairy Melusine. Who is the very embodiment of the monstrous feminine, so the San Diego Christians kind of have a point.
Yeah, based on the facts giving rise to the myspace prosecution seem likely you could pretty straightforwardly sue, & win, for intentional infliction of emotional distress. And under current First Amendment doctrine, if it were protected speech you couldn't be sued for it any more than you could be prosecuted. What I find more worrisome is the possibility of stretching a criminal statute because we think you're a terrible person, which is ex post facto-ish--and, Supreme Court doctrine aside, it does seem different suing someone for sheer malicious, harmful treatment than sending someone to jail for it.
What I find more worrisome is the possibility of stretching a criminal statute because we think you're a terrible person, which is ex post facto-ish
Worrisome, yes, but also pretty common.
I call people 'chief' in my head, and it comes out sometimes; a boss will tell me to do something and I'll say "Sure thing, chief!" It doesn't seem to bother people much.
I do use endearments when I'm irate with someone endearment-appropriate. I don't like the habit, but I'm not sure whether I'm being condescending or just reminding myself that in an hour or two, I'd be sorry to have eviscerated them.
Next CBD question:
What's your opinion of the phrase "making love" when it refers to sex?
It's beautiful.
It's hokey and overly sentimental.
It refers to a very specific kind of sex.
It's no better or worse than any other.
Seriously, I think I'll skip the crazy date part ('specially now that you've all frightened me so) and just spend my Friday nights answering the random questions. So fun!
(Obviously, the correct answer is hokey.)
Please, please, please do the crazy date and report back.
Oh, don't worry, I won't really back out. I signed up with a friend so that I couldn't. But, like, I totally expect it to be less fun than the questions! Because I am that lame!
Oh, Di, go on the date. Not for yourself. For random people on the internet.
just spend my Friday nights answering the random questions
When you envision your life ten years from now, which is it more filled with: piety or bubbles?
I call people 'chief' in my head, and it comes out sometimes
In a Don Adams/Maxwell Smart voice? Because that would be awesome.
361: In my head, it's Maxwell Smart. I don't actually do the voice out loud though.
I'm a little surprised that these CBD questions are so ... targeted, or random. They seem like trivia questions, in a way. "Making love" is, let's see, let's see, hokey? Um, fine for certain circumstances? And ass-licking is, well ... fine in certain circumstances? Otherwise not?
I guess I thought it was more of a *blind* date thing.
360: The guy I broke up with a few weeks ago drove me home tonight. We somehow got into a very Unfogged-esque discussion of porn and prostitution and is it be okay if the woman chose that of her own free will, and how abusive is the industry and it's still demeaning and Lord how I wished I could truly finish that conversation in BitchPhd persona (or LB, or -- I'm not going to attempt to name everyone) but I was tired and a little annoyed so instead I psychoanalyzed his driving style.
Di is going on reality tv crazy blind date. I just hope someone posts the video.
I would totally do that. Except that Rory would probably be mortified.
Anyone who dates a lawyer is kind of a fool anyway.
so instead I psychoanalyzed his driving style.
I would totally do that. Feel better?
135/136 did not get nearly enough appreciation. Everybody scroll back!
My assocation with "Slim" is Lauren Bacall in To Have and Have Not. Hooooboy, talk about finally understanding the appeal of an endearment.
My father uses "Bunky" when irritated with other drivers. Move it, bunky! Way to signal, bunky! etc. Much preferred if you've got impressionable small folks in the back seat.
I occasionally call young people that I feel affectionate toward bub, or bubbie.
On the original post: One litmus test is whether the tone and body language are patronizing even if you substitute "Miss" for "sweetie." In this case, they are. Sorry, bunky, you blew it.
At least he apologized quickly.
In the north of England everybody calls everybody else "Love". Regardless of race, gender, creed, age or any damn thing else. Yesterday I was quite typically addressed as "Love" by a sixty year old Muslim taxi driver.
And you still get up-themselves Londoners being offended by it. Which is reason #739 why I hate Londoners.
As Miles Davis has shown us, the most powerful and versatile term of endearment is "motherfucker".
But if Obama had called the reporter "Motherfucker", the racist media would have been all huffy about it.
You know that story that Dubya calls his wife "Pickles". A big lie. His pet name for Laura is "Motherfucker". The "Pickles" story is PR, like the clearing brush, pork rinds, etc.
Re: Starbucks -- It's the fairy Melusine. Who is the very embodiment of the monstrous feminine, so the San Diego Christians kind of have a point.
The split tail does make a big difference. I wonder why Starbucks actually used it? What does Melusine have to do with coffee or tea?
Maybe all the good logos were already taken, and they didn't want to come up with some cutesy new androgenous olympic-pokemonish little hamster lite.
Witt,
I like your naming style.
I occasionally call young people that I feel affectionate toward bub, or bubbie.
I tried "girly-girl" but reconsidered after the night in jail.
"Bub" seems to be standard German or Dutch. My mother used it when she wanted to be mildly insulting to one of the kids.
My Polish grandma would use something like "Kosa" for endearment and "Dupa" for scolding. I never asked for the spelling.
"Bub" seems to be standard German or Dutch.
Also seems to be Yiddish, from bubeleh. That makes sense, given the German.
378: The Starbucks logo would appear to have been at the very least strongly influences by the Coat of Arms for a municipality in Slovakia:
http://www.crwflags.com/FOTW/FLAGS/sk-ca-du.html
A bit 'o history on the Starbucks logo.
Bub's used a bit differently from bubeleh, isn't it?
But if Obama had called the reporter "Motherfucker", the racist media would have been all huffy about it.
Only if he had called her that in the context of asking for more iced tea.
Bub's used a bit differently from bubeleh, isn't it?
I think it varies. I used to know a 60-something guy who used them more or less interchangeably, not just toward grandchildren but any much-younger person with whom he had an easygoing and affectionate relationship -- even work colleagues.
378: Huh. I only knew meluzina as the Czech word for a howling wind that makes a scary noise in the chimney, a suitable fate for an alchemical muse. Maybe the monstrous Melusine and the logo Melusine could duke it it out. There's a host of safety-minded archaic folktales-- don't go outside if you hear Meluzina, there's an anthropomorphic water-goblin that lives in willow roots by the creek, so stay away from those, etc. These are distinct from the clever bumpkin finds a way to cheat the foreigner folktales.
Time to sue!
i recalled
a few yrs ago some people tried to open a fast food joint called MonDonald in our fair capital
a suing threat ensued
they renamed it MonSomething i guess, but what exactly i forgot, i remember thinking how petty
to be fair the design of M was very similar
390: It's not petty (says the lawyer, so take it for what it's worth). The possibility of confusion is a genuine issue if a company has worked hard to create name/brand recognition and has a particular reputation attached to that name/brand. It's the same reason one ought not misappropriate another commenter's pseud (unless done obviously, for comic effect).
Like me---I've decided I'm pretty open to offers of analingus.
391: So you could open a satirical McDonald's and not get sued?
yeah, i'm in the process of changing my mind
about importance of intellectual property, brand names
at that time i thought how far is it the reach of the multinational corporations something
how they know who does what and where etc
393: I believe so. I know that there is an exception to sampling laws for samples used satirically, a precedent established in the epochal Orbison v. 2 Live Crew case.
Lessig's description of the sources Disney used but did not compensate in creating Steamboat Willie might be germane here (in Free Culture). Did Starbucks compensate Illy or anyone else who created the look and feel of the cafes that Starbucks imitates? The companies should have a way to protect an investment, but perpetual trademark on a look and feel is too much.
392. There's a labret code so that you can convey the same message discreetly in person.
On the other hand, I'm pretty anti- intellectual property as currently construed in this country.
393: Yep! The touchstone is always "likelihood of confusion."
* The foregoing does not represent legal advice and should not be relied upon in establishing fast food restaurants, regardless of humorous intent.
392: Would it be funny or just gross to suggest that I'm still inclined to be pretty picky about it?
OT: I LOVE YOU CHRIS MATTHEWS! All is forgiven!
Seriously, that is the most awesome talking heads thing I think I've ever seen. The history professor people will be especially appreciative. It's worth watching the whole 2-3 minutes.
Deserves its own thread, but the main page posters never respond to my poorly concealed attempts to manipulate them.
Are you this picky about your seat when you go to the theater?
So you could open a satirical McDonald's and not get sued?
You can always get sued. Whether you'd be liable would depend on whether McDonald's could establish a likelihood of confusion. Which tends to be easier to establish than it should be. But satire/parody as a fair use defense to copyright infringement, as in the Orbison/2 Live Crew case, doesn't strictly apply in a trademark context; it should in effect, though, since if the parody is evident there should be no likelihood of confusion.
anthropomorphic water-goblin
Vodnik?
I really try my best not to pick my seat -- even if I'm in a dark theater where no one would notice. Really, the germs man, just gross.
further OT: continuing my conversation with myself from 401, Matthews lowers the boom and makes a great point starting at 3:00. Who knew that guy could be so good? I guess once the talking heads stop their defensive pandering and sucking up to crazy leaders, they show they have some minimal intelligence after all.
Get it? Picky -- as in "prone to picking" rather than "selective." Like picking your butt?
Yeah, juvenile.
re: 403
McDonalds did sue a café in the UK, called MacDonalds. A café owned by someone called MacDonald.
I believe the MacDonald of MacDonald was somewhat unchuffed about it.
406: It's a great clip and has been linked liberally in nearly all recent threads, I think.
409: I don't know whether to be embarassed that I'm late to the party, or reassured that everyone else also considered it worth barging in with an OT link.
Back to your regularly scheduled analingus discussion!
I wouldn't say "all is forgiven", though. Chris Matthews: capable of being tough on people who ineptly smear a candidate he's utterly, utterly in the tank for. This is not a big revelation, really, although I'm happy he's in the tank for the right person this time around.
See, I'd lean toward being embarrassed about barging in on analingus. But as I learned from the foregoing thread, you should probably just be reassured that everybody does it.
I remember in Shanghai there were quite a number of different knock-offs of Kentucky Fried Chicken (which was incredibly popular, not cheap, and kind of a mark of status to patronize). Most had a red and white color scheme and names like "Texas Fried Chicken" and "Michigan Fried Chicken". I doubt anyone confused any of them with the real KFC.
And I got told by many different people that one of the reasons KFC was so popular was that their mascot was "a kindly old man". All the KFCs had lifesize plastic statues of the Colonel, and you'd often see people getting their pictures taken next to him.
McDonalds was also fairly popular and prestigious, and had statues of Ronald at each location, but noone seemed to want to be photographed with the freaky clown. There was one McD's on a busy main street that had a sitting Ronald on a park bench out front. There was space on the bench for one more person, and it was almost always filled by someone completely ignoring their plastic benchmate. I had a plan to snap a picture each time I walked past of whoever happened to be sitting there at the time (it was often very old people, wearing Mao jackets or other traditional clothes, smoking), but I never carried it out.
413: You were in China?
That would have been an excellent photo (series). You should go back and do it.
For a truly on topic clip, did anyone see Good Morning America take on Sweetiegate? This may actually help Obama by humanizing him, I thought the segment made him look pretty good.
On Chris Matthews, at least all was forgiven for the several delightful minutes of watching that clip. He's just beginning the process of payback for his past six years of total bullshit. Although Matthews always did have much more comedy value than the rest of them -- remember his rhapsodies over Fred Thompson's wonderful masculinity?
And I got told by many different people that one of the reasons KFC was so popular was that their mascot was "a kindly old man".
conversely, in Vietnam they're banned because Colonel Sanders was felt to look disrespectfully similar to Ho Chi Minh. Don't even fucking ask me about the disastrous Ankara franchise of my "Atta Turk!" kebab shop concept.
413. Plenty of KFC knock-offs like that right here in England. They must be less litigious or something. Or have worked out that they look like hateful prats going after owner managers who are just trying to make the rent.
Yeah, there are loads of "[Name of state] Fried Chicken" places. West London in particular -- Hanwell, Acton, Ealing, etc -- seems to have about 5 of them per 100 metres.
I finally watched that Matthews clip, and while I was glad that the ridiculous radio guy was shown to be an idjit, the whole piece was just too damn shouty for me.
I've often wondered what the funniest combination of state name + "Fried Chicken" is. "Michigan Fried Chicken" is pretty funny, for some reason.
re: 417
A friend always talks about the Abrakebabra chain [Dublin, I think].
I just looked, I thought I remembered taking exactly that photograph, but no, there's no plastic Ronald, just a bench with a wizened Shanghai senior on a street full of busy young people. Totally different senses of time for the generations; no stopping for the young, no rushing for the old.
I feel like Chris Matthews in that clip whenever one of my students describes a poet as "thinking outside the box" or "just being realistic about life." WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY BOX? WHAT BOX? DO YOU KNOW WHAT A BOX IS? WHAT IS THE BOX? TELL ME WHAT BOX YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
The first time someone [my dad, I think] explained the origin of the 'thinking outside the box' phrase I was quite impressed.
425: It must have been tough, growing up not knowing if someone was your dad or not, huh?
But anyway, what is the origin?
growing up not knowing if someone was your dad or not
Father's day in Westchester county should be the most confusing day of the year.
re: 426
In corporate use to refer to solutions to the 9-dot puzzle, I gather.
428. Your dad must know some remarkable corporations. I doubt anybody in ours could solve the bugger, let alone give it a fancy name.
"Michigan Fried Chicken" is pretty funny, for some reason.
Guam Fried Chicken.
re: 429
In his version of the story it was used in the 'Japanese military' to test for innovative officer potential. But wikipedia tells me that the use of the phrase dates back to the 60s or 70s in management consultantcy circles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_outside_the_box
430: New England Boiled Chicken
401: I posted about it yesterday afternoon. Which is just to say that the history professor types were, as you guessed, intrigued. Though I still find Matthews an utterly repugnant bully and the clip actually made me hate him more.
I think "thinking outside the gaggle of dots" has a nice ring to it.
Also, I'm not trying to derail the North Dakota fried chicken thread, but here's Obama in response to Bush's appeaser comment and McCain having hopped on that train: "They're trying to fool you, trying to scare you, and they're not telling you the truth because they cant win a foreign policy debate on the merits..."
It appears that Obama is a fighter as well as a lover.
We should hella start one of these in the US called "Glasgow Fried Everything".
436: oh it is so delicious, it is.
A friend always talks about the Abrakebabra chain [Dublin, I think].
Abrakebabra! Oh, beer-fueled early-morning hungers of my youth ...
438: I know, right? His instinct to fight back immediately, instead of reflexively flinching, makes me love him even though he's a "sweetie" recidivist.
"Why do these analinguists keep having my tongue in their butts?"
440: it's like, I want those fuckers to attack him, just so he'll give another speech.
We should hella start one of these in the US called "Glasgow Fried Everything".
Daily lunch special: a day-old pizza slice "warmed up" in the fryer, with a side of chips and a Mars bar fritter.
442: I expect that your wish will come true -- over and over again -- on both counts.
403: You can always get sued.
Yes, very sloppy of me. I just wanted to indulge white people's love of correcting the writing of others.
433 is exactly right. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
In the north of England everybody calls everybody else "Love".
I was quite shocked when I first arrived in England and a train conductor-type person actually called me "duck." Up to that moment, I would completely have believed that the use of that word in that way was a condescending fiction laid upon the poor Brits by chauvinistic Americans. Mais non.
401 PGD, that clip was wonderful. Thank you.
Jesus. This whole thread is in violation of the analingus ban.
